It was never going to be a Souls-like. It's going to be Armored Core, which is broadly like if Daemon X Machina had FromSoft's usual vague, grimdark storytelling instead of SatAm anime, and more crunchy numbers of great importance in its mechanics. Also, a wider variety of non-biped and non-humanoid mechs to explode.
The biggest question was if the world and game structure were going to be open like Elden Ring, because stage design had declined since PS1 in Armored Core, and open world could be made to work for the series; it's confirmed it's not this time. I can understand why. It's costly to make, and AC has never been the seller Souls is in spite of being the longest ongoing pet series for the dev. We can only hope the stage design for Fires of Rubicon is good anyway. Perhaps someday things will align for Armored Core to get an amazing open world game.
I could envision a game that took large elements from the souls games while still playing like armored core, like if there were a continuous open map rather than missions on individual small maps with loading screens, briefings and a return to your garage between them.
+1
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
It was never going to be a Souls-like. It's going to be Armored Core, which is broadly like if Daemon X Machina had FromSoft's usual vague, grimdark storytelling instead of SatAm anime, and more crunchy numbers of great importance in its mechanics. Also, a wider variety of non-biped and non-humanoid mechs to explode.
The biggest question was if the world and game structure were going to be open like Elden Ring, because stage design had declined since PS1 in Armored Core, and open world could be made to work for the series; it's confirmed it's not this time. I can understand why. It's costly to make, and AC has never been the seller Souls is in spite of being the longest ongoing pet series for the dev. We can only hope the stage design for Fires of Rubicon is good anyway. Perhaps someday things will align for Armored Core to get an amazing open world game.
I could envision a game that took large elements from the souls games while still playing like armored core, like if there were a continuous open map rather than missions on individual small maps with loading screens, briefings and a return to your garage between them.
Yeah, I could see very much the same thing. Going from a person-based Elden Ring to a mech-based Armored Core that's basically a clone wouldn't be that hard at all. Instead of armor, you have AC parts. Instead of swords and whatnot, you get guns. Radar and special items instead of rings and whatnot. Etc etc.
Which was slightly my worry, but it sounds like they want a new AC game to be it's own thing and I'm much happier with that. I don't want Mecha Ring, I want Armored Core.
But Fromsoft generally does excellent game design and really examines their ideas and how to execute them, so I could see this AC game being both wildly different than the Soulsborne games or Sekiro and still being clearly something Fromsoft made.
+2
zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
I am very excited for this game. I’ve played some armored core.
Armored core soundtrack is legendary.
I kinda hope they go more AC1-3 style sound than 4-5, there are a lot of tracks I love in 4 and 5 but the older electronica soundtracks are catnip to me.
Is it strange that one of the things I'm most hyped about is the soundtrack?
Nope, I'm 100% with you. It's got that awesome Terminator-era dystopian sci-fi synth going on, which I love. The way the theme in the trailer builds and adds vocals, just *chef's kiss*
It's a shame the controls for the oldest games are so dated as they're otherwise among the best in the series in terms of gameplay speed, complexity for newcomers, and interesting missions and environs ... though obviously not graphics.
Nexus would be the next best staring point for its controls, wealth of content including a disc 2 that celebrates the series with remade old missions, music, and parts, playable at any time alongside the story. Its balance has some flaws, but it eases you in, and disc 2 is truly not to be missed.
If it weren't trapped on the PSP, AC3 Portable would be an incredible first game. It natively supports L-analog, and as I mentioned, on Vita (or I assume PSTV), you can play it with dual analog, which makes it more accessible than the PS2 version, and it's definitely one of the best games of the series. Silent Line Portable is up there too, but definitely kicks up the difficulty as AC3's direct sequel.
That said I don't think any of the series is still available, even digitally, except on JP PSN. I wish a collection was a reasonable idea, but no one would finance it.
I hope in the arena they have detailed background stories for the NPC competitors. I'd like to see, as I have matches or do standard missions the arena rankings evolve in their own way.
NPC's going up and down, upgrading their mechs.
For some reason I always loved the arenas. I liked that in Mech Warrior 2? as well.
Dixon on
+1
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
The arena ladder in the AC games was absolutely always my favorite part.
And I really hope it makes it back and not replaced by just a pvp arena or something.
I was basically always playing missions just to get money and parts to make my way up that ladder and following that little side story of each competitor.
+3
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I'm hoping whoever handles the upgrades is a taciturn young woman in a drab gown.
I have way too little knowledge of AC to understand what those in-game screenshots imply about the actual gameplay, but one of those looks like radiation pools aka THE POISON SWAMP FFS
e: btw, I wonder about scale. How big are those fucked-up (beautiful) looking heli...things from the trailer? To me, they look like behemoths, but there's a fleet of them, so maybe not?
Mecha shit is up my alley, but I remember Armored Core 4, the only game in the series I remember buying/playing, feeling like a really loose Dynasty Warriors and not all that fun.
Mecha shit is up my alley, but I remember Armored Core 4, the only game in the series I remember buying/playing, feeling like a really loose Dynasty Warriors and not all that fun.
I think my favorite bit about AC4 was Miyazaki (who was the director for those games) basically saying in that IGN interview "look at the jank we made on that shoestring budget, I am jealous of what my team is making now for AC6". Hopefully moment to moment gameplay will benefit there.
IceBurnerIt's cold and there are penguins.Registered Userregular
edited December 2022
Presuming those screens are real (the mecha and camera angles look very legitimately Armored Core), then environments are a huge step up from anything AC has had in the past, and the game is colorful.
It looks like not setting the game anywhere real may have opened up a lot creatively, something I'd been pondering and hoping for since the announcement the game was set in a distant star system.
Going by the screens, gameplay resembles Armored Core, which is most succinctly described as a weighty 3rd person shooter attached to a number crunchy 4-story tall mech builder.
I have way too little knowledge of AC to understand what those in-game screenshots imply about the actual gameplay, but one of those looks like radiation pools aka THE POISON SWAMP FFS
e: btw, I wonder about scale. How big are those fucked-up (beautiful) looking heli...things from the trailer? To me, they look like behemoths, but there's a fleet of them, so maybe not?
I always felt like they were legit because they looked like a Fromsoft creation. It's hard for me to describe what a Fromsoft creation looks like, but I sure as hell know what it is when I see it.
Glad to see my spidey sense for these things hasn't let me down yet
sorry I'm just gonna be posting favorite tracks in here for a long time
snip
While each generation had a distinct musical presence, they were all incredible electronic OSTs through the end of the PS2, 10 games in out of 14 home console releases. I don't really know from the PS3 onward.
PS1 Trio: Techno & electronica
AC2 Duo: More dance-oriented techno, composed by Mijk van Dijk instead of in-house
AC3 Duo: Gothic electronica & techno
Nexus Trio: Not sure what the appropriate name for its style is, but it's still some form of electronica.
I was going to list favorite tracks, but I'd end up listing more of each soundtrack than not. If you like techno and electronica at all, do yourself a favor and queue up a playlist of the 20-disc Armored Core 20th Anniversary Box set.
Enjoy some Frighteners, from Armored Core 2. I have vivid memories of this track playing as the perfect complement to mysterious, powerful, and unseen new enemies slowly closing in ambush, during in a nil-visibility blizzard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn1y5IPjiOo
I have way too little knowledge of AC to understand what those in-game screenshots imply about the actual gameplay, but one of those looks like radiation pools aka THE POISON SWAMP FFS
e: btw, I wonder about scale. How big are those fucked-up (beautiful) looking heli...things from the trailer? To me, they look like behemoths, but there's a fleet of them, so maybe not?
The helicopters look similar to the AC carrier helicopter design from V that drops you into missions. If so they're a bit bigger than an AC, like the size of a small office building. There's nothing for scale in that shot though so who knows.
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
I have way too little knowledge of AC to understand what those in-game screenshots imply about the actual gameplay, but one of those looks like radiation pools aka THE POISON SWAMP FFS
e: btw, I wonder about scale. How big are those fucked-up (beautiful) looking heli...things from the trailer? To me, they look like behemoths, but there's a fleet of them, so maybe not?
The helicopters look similar to the AC carrier helicopter design from V that drops you into missions. If so they're a bit bigger than an AC, like the size of a small office building. There's nothing for scale in that shot though so who knows.
I had assumed that the helicopters were the same aircraft that the ACs were deploying from later on in the trailer. Looked like 4-5 ACs on one side getting ready to jump.
Could also just be editing trickery.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
0
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
edited December 2022
I really hope they lean into that bleak 90's synth for the OST in this. Fromsoft make bangers (even if Elden Ring was weak outside of the main theme) and I would love to hear their take on that Terminator aesthetic.
I have way too little knowledge of AC to understand what those in-game screenshots imply about the actual gameplay, but one of those looks like radiation pools aka THE POISON SWAMP FFS
e: btw, I wonder about scale. How big are those fucked-up (beautiful) looking heli...things from the trailer? To me, they look like behemoths, but there's a fleet of them, so maybe not?
regular ACs being 5m tall seems too small to me, most of the torso would have to be the cockpit
also doesn't feel in scale with the old cinematics where they're in urban environments
BahamutZERO on
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
regular ACs being 5m tall seems too small to me, most of the torso would have to be the cockpit
also doesn't feel in scale with the old cinematics where they're in urban environments
Wanzers from Front Mission are in or around 5m. Which is roughly the height of a two story home.
Though around 10m is the common height for “typical” mecha, which extends to Battletech Mechs as well.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Wiki says the PS2 era ACs are 9-12 meters, but it's based on model scales. Everything agrees that AC5 ACs are the smallest in the series and most seem to agree that they're ~5m.
There really are two scenes from the trailer that I think are so beautiful, I can't deal:
One, the one I mentioned, those aircraft - again, I can't really tell how big they are, but they seem, or are presented as, massive hunks of steel that just rain death (or maybe it's just chaff haha) on whatever happens to be below
but my favorite is directly after, that horrible hum of the gatling, and the fact that pretty much the only sources of light in that scene are the gatling's muzzle fire and an explosion, casting an orange glow over those walking tanks. Ugh. Love it. Now I have never played an AC, just looked at them from a distance and went "looks rad". But I am a little sad that there are pilots in those things. I almost prefer the imagery of uncaring AIs going to war over resources, just to keep the machine running forever. So those humans better be cool!
0
IceBurnerIt's cold and there are penguins.Registered Userregular
edited December 2022
1 story in an office building story is typically about 3.5m tall.
Per Battletech source books a Locust is 6.1m tall or a little under 2 stories. Medium weight mechs top out at 6.9m or almost exactly 2 office stories.
RX-78 Gundam stands 18m tall, including the official 1:1 animatronic statue in Yokohama, which is quite visibly 5 stories tall.
Officially, Gen 1 thru 4Answer AC's are said to be about 10m tall. As visible in urban game stages on PS1 and PS2, they're consistently about 2.5 stories tall, making them roughly 9m, a little taller than midweight Battlemechs in the TTRPG (not video games).
Biped MT's began as powered exoskeletons for labor. Their myriad, bulked up military forms tend to be shorter than AC's, about 1.5 stories tall. That puts them in a generous range around 5.25m. Not quite small enough for a powered exoskeleton, but much closer than an AC is.
AC4 changed names, not sizes, keeping the official 10m measurement. Normals = MTs and Nexts = ACs in terms of both role and scale. The game is unfortunately inconsistent in its depiction. In some stages they're scaled like past ACs and about twice the height of a semitrailer, while others depict them as being 5 or more stories tall; Gundam sized.
I think this may be more an issue with bad scaling on the buildings than the machines themselves.
In AC5 they halved the official size of ACs to supposedly be 5m, almost as if you're playing as Normals from AC4 ... but in-game they're once again very clearly 2.5 stories tall, going by the buildings around them in multiple stages.
Battletech and Gundam are both notoriously bad at scale consistency (in the animation in Gundam's case). Armored Core is no different in that regard, hah.
I hope they keep them on the bigger end for VI. I prefer my Mecha large and stompy. I also really hope they keep the speed on the slower side as well. More dark souls 1 then Bloodborne and especially sekiro.
Posts
I could envision a game that took large elements from the souls games while still playing like armored core, like if there were a continuous open map rather than missions on individual small maps with loading screens, briefings and a return to your garage between them.
Yeah, I could see very much the same thing. Going from a person-based Elden Ring to a mech-based Armored Core that's basically a clone wouldn't be that hard at all. Instead of armor, you have AC parts. Instead of swords and whatnot, you get guns. Radar and special items instead of rings and whatnot. Etc etc.
Which was slightly my worry, but it sounds like they want a new AC game to be it's own thing and I'm much happier with that. I don't want Mecha Ring, I want Armored Core.
But Fromsoft generally does excellent game design and really examines their ideas and how to execute them, so I could see this AC game being both wildly different than the Soulsborne games or Sekiro and still being clearly something Fromsoft made.
I kinda hope they go more AC1-3 style sound than 4-5, there are a lot of tracks I love in 4 and 5 but the older electronica soundtracks are catnip to me.
Nope, I'm 100% with you. It's got that awesome Terminator-era dystopian sci-fi synth going on, which I love. The way the theme in the trailer builds and adds vocals, just *chef's kiss*
Their cinematics for AC are pretty good.
Or possibly like
As well as how the gameplay looked, albeit mostly from the intro stage of each:
It's a shame the controls for the oldest games are so dated as they're otherwise among the best in the series in terms of gameplay speed, complexity for newcomers, and interesting missions and environs ... though obviously not graphics.
Nexus would be the next best staring point for its controls, wealth of content including a disc 2 that celebrates the series with remade old missions, music, and parts, playable at any time alongside the story. Its balance has some flaws, but it eases you in, and disc 2 is truly not to be missed.
If it weren't trapped on the PSP, AC3 Portable would be an incredible first game. It natively supports L-analog, and as I mentioned, on Vita (or I assume PSTV), you can play it with dual analog, which makes it more accessible than the PS2 version, and it's definitely one of the best games of the series. Silent Line Portable is up there too, but definitely kicks up the difficulty as AC3's direct sequel.
That said I don't think any of the series is still available, even digitally, except on JP PSN. I wish a collection was a reasonable idea, but no one would finance it.
PSN: theIceBurner, IceBurnerEU, IceBurner-JP | X-Link Kai: TheIceBurner
Dragon's Dogma: 192 Warrior Linty | 80 Strider Alicia | 32 Mage Terra
NPC's going up and down, upgrading their mechs.
For some reason I always loved the arenas. I liked that in Mech Warrior 2? as well.
And I really hope it makes it back and not replaced by just a pvp arena or something.
I was basically always playing missions just to get money and parts to make my way up that ladder and following that little side story of each competitor.
Or a mech, that works too.
I hope weapons upgrades are done by a bearded Mech. They did it with a Skeleton, they can do it with a mech!
PSN: theIceBurner, IceBurnerEU, IceBurner-JP | X-Link Kai: TheIceBurner
Dragon's Dogma: 192 Warrior Linty | 80 Strider Alicia | 32 Mage Terra
someone at reddit enlarged them: reddit.com/gallery/zmalm9
I have way too little knowledge of AC to understand what those in-game screenshots imply about the actual gameplay, but one of those looks like radiation pools aka THE POISON SWAMP FFS
e: btw, I wonder about scale. How big are those fucked-up (beautiful) looking heli...things from the trailer? To me, they look like behemoths, but there's a fleet of them, so maybe not?
I think my favorite bit about AC4 was Miyazaki (who was the director for those games) basically saying in that IGN interview "look at the jank we made on that shoestring budget, I am jealous of what my team is making now for AC6". Hopefully moment to moment gameplay will benefit there.
It looks like not setting the game anywhere real may have opened up a lot creatively, something I'd been pondering and hoping for since the announcement the game was set in a distant star system.
Going by the screens, gameplay resembles Armored Core, which is most succinctly described as a weighty 3rd person shooter attached to a number crunchy 4-story tall mech builder.
PSN: theIceBurner, IceBurnerEU, IceBurner-JP | X-Link Kai: TheIceBurner
Dragon's Dogma: 192 Warrior Linty | 80 Strider Alicia | 32 Mage Terra
I always felt like they were legit because they looked like a Fromsoft creation. It's hard for me to describe what a Fromsoft creation looks like, but I sure as hell know what it is when I see it.
Glad to see my spidey sense for these things hasn't let me down yet
(A little Titanfall in there for an East meets West project, but the music is an unreleased AC5 track).
PS1 Trio: Techno & electronica
AC2 Duo: More dance-oriented techno, composed by Mijk van Dijk instead of in-house
AC3 Duo: Gothic electronica & techno
Nexus Trio: Not sure what the appropriate name for its style is, but it's still some form of electronica.
I was going to list favorite tracks, but I'd end up listing more of each soundtrack than not. If you like techno and electronica at all, do yourself a favor and queue up a playlist of the 20-disc Armored Core 20th Anniversary Box set.
Enjoy some Frighteners, from Armored Core 2. I have vivid memories of this track playing as the perfect complement to mysterious, powerful, and unseen new enemies slowly closing in ambush, during in a nil-visibility blizzard.
PSN: theIceBurner, IceBurnerEU, IceBurner-JP | X-Link Kai: TheIceBurner
Dragon's Dogma: 192 Warrior Linty | 80 Strider Alicia | 32 Mage Terra
The helicopters look similar to the AC carrier helicopter design from V that drops you into missions. If so they're a bit bigger than an AC, like the size of a small office building. There's nothing for scale in that shot though so who knows.
I had assumed that the helicopters were the same aircraft that the ACs were deploying from later on in the trailer. Looked like 4-5 ACs on one side getting ready to jump.
Could also just be editing trickery.
A Normal AC is 5m tall,
A NEXT AC is around 10m.
also doesn't feel in scale with the old cinematics where they're in urban environments
Wanzers from Front Mission are in or around 5m. Which is roughly the height of a two story home.
Though around 10m is the common height for “typical” mecha, which extends to Battletech Mechs as well.
One, the one I mentioned, those aircraft - again, I can't really tell how big they are, but they seem, or are presented as, massive hunks of steel that just rain death (or maybe it's just chaff haha) on whatever happens to be below
but my favorite is directly after, that horrible hum of the gatling, and the fact that pretty much the only sources of light in that scene are the gatling's muzzle fire and an explosion, casting an orange glow over those walking tanks. Ugh. Love it. Now I have never played an AC, just looked at them from a distance and went "looks rad". But I am a little sad that there are pilots in those things. I almost prefer the imagery of uncaring AIs going to war over resources, just to keep the machine running forever. So those humans better be cool!
Per Battletech source books a Locust is 6.1m tall or a little under 2 stories. Medium weight mechs top out at 6.9m or almost exactly 2 office stories.
RX-78 Gundam stands 18m tall, including the official 1:1 animatronic statue in Yokohama, which is quite visibly 5 stories tall.
Officially, Gen 1 thru 4Answer AC's are said to be about 10m tall. As visible in urban game stages on PS1 and PS2, they're consistently about 2.5 stories tall, making them roughly 9m, a little taller than midweight Battlemechs in the TTRPG (not video games).
Biped MT's began as powered exoskeletons for labor. Their myriad, bulked up military forms tend to be shorter than AC's, about 1.5 stories tall. That puts them in a generous range around 5.25m. Not quite small enough for a powered exoskeleton, but much closer than an AC is.
AC4 changed names, not sizes, keeping the official 10m measurement. Normals = MTs and Nexts = ACs in terms of both role and scale. The game is unfortunately inconsistent in its depiction. In some stages they're scaled like past ACs and about twice the height of a semitrailer, while others depict them as being 5 or more stories tall; Gundam sized.
I think this may be more an issue with bad scaling on the buildings than the machines themselves.
In AC5 they halved the official size of ACs to supposedly be 5m, almost as if you're playing as Normals from AC4 ... but in-game they're once again very clearly 2.5 stories tall, going by the buildings around them in multiple stages.
PSN: theIceBurner, IceBurnerEU, IceBurner-JP | X-Link Kai: TheIceBurner
Dragon's Dogma: 192 Warrior Linty | 80 Strider Alicia | 32 Mage Terra
PSN:Furlion