StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
I'm actually in the middle of obstinately finishing a game that had a bunch of Steam reviews mentioning its good story, so a lot of this rings very familiar.
Obviously if someone I trust and generally align with on media says that something has a good story, I might weigh that opinion a bit differently, but generally speaking I think there's definitely either a curve that people grade games on or a specific thing that good story means that might not actually be the way that you might conceptualize story as a whole (or both). Stuff like fun characters or detailed sidequest design definitely feels like things that regularly fall into the latter category.
0
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
i realize this is silly but I do get a bit sad over all the friends that leave here
i understand why a lot of people go, and that sometimes you can find them in other places, but I find the forum is still the easiest place to just chat about general stuff
but I suppose someday I too will diminish and go into the west
in fact i would largely say that when people say that video game stories are good, what they actually mean is "there's a lot of fun characters that talk at you." this is where bioware planted their flag for example. terrible plots. pulp-like without the fun of being pulpy. but it's still fun when an alien tells an anecdote about their past.
this is largely what pulls final fantasy 14 out of the ARR writing. the start of ff14 is bad because it's about you. it's trying to tell a story about the player character becoming a hero. no one gives a shit. you're a video game character, you are gonna be a hero, done. once people start saying that ff14 gets good it's because it stops trying to tell a story about you and starts focusing on the characters that accompany you, to the point that a large swath of the first expansion is a classic JRPG party of you and 3 other NPCs making their way on a pilgrimage to a major plot location. it realizes it can take for granted that the player character is largely just "a guy who is happy to go on adventures and do the right thing" and it doesn't really need to provide a ton of justification past that point.
Man this is cynical to a degree that it makes me feel bad for you! I'm sorry that video game stories have been so disappointing that you have decided the entire medium sucks, I guess!
I still tend to enjoy video games myself and I think the story of FFXIV was great.
Just want to pop in here and say that this isn't a cynical take, there's nothing cynical about the idea that games don't generally have very good storytelling. It may be different than your taste, but it's not cynical.
oh there was more pages here weren't there, innit? aw beans.
I'm actually in the middle of obstinately finishing a game that had a bunch of Steam reviews mentioning its good story, so a lot of this rings very familiar.
Obviously if someone I trust and generally align with on media says that something has a good story, I might weigh that opinion a bit differently, but generally speaking I think there's definitely either a curve that people grade games on or a specific thing that good story means that might not actually be the way that you might conceptualize story as a whole (or both). Stuff like fun characters or detailed sidequest design definitely feels like things that regularly fall into the latter category.
What game?
0
StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
I'm actually in the middle of obstinately finishing a game that had a bunch of Steam reviews mentioning its good story, so a lot of this rings very familiar.
Obviously if someone I trust and generally align with on media says that something has a good story, I might weigh that opinion a bit differently, but generally speaking I think there's definitely either a curve that people grade games on or a specific thing that good story means that might not actually be the way that you might conceptualize story as a whole (or both). Stuff like fun characters or detailed sidequest design definitely feels like things that regularly fall into the latter category.
What game?
Lost Eidolons, a Kickstarter Fire Emblem-like
I'll spend a while talking about it once I finish it probably, because I think it's ultimately an interesting failure and I've got a bunch to say, but I've been waiting until I finished the story and it keeps dragging out longer and longer
I'm actually in the middle of obstinately finishing a game that had a bunch of Steam reviews mentioning its good story, so a lot of this rings very familiar.
Obviously if someone I trust and generally align with on media says that something has a good story, I might weigh that opinion a bit differently, but generally speaking I think there's definitely either a curve that people grade games on or a specific thing that good story means that might not actually be the way that you might conceptualize story as a whole (or both). Stuff like fun characters or detailed sidequest design definitely feels like things that regularly fall into the latter category.
What game?
Lost Eidolons, a Kickstarter Fire Emblem-like
I'll spend a while talking about it once I finish it probably, because I think it's ultimately an interesting failure and I've got a bunch to say, but I've been waiting until I finished the story and it keeps dragging out longer and longer
I saw someone start that game, and the gameplay looked interesting in the fire emblem style but the story elements were super rough.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I'm actually in the middle of obstinately finishing a game that had a bunch of Steam reviews mentioning its good story, so a lot of this rings very familiar.
Obviously if someone I trust and generally align with on media says that something has a good story, I might weigh that opinion a bit differently, but generally speaking I think there's definitely either a curve that people grade games on or a specific thing that good story means that might not actually be the way that you might conceptualize story as a whole (or both). Stuff like fun characters or detailed sidequest design definitely feels like things that regularly fall into the latter category.
What game?
Lost Eidolons, a Kickstarter Fire Emblem-like
I'll spend a while talking about it once I finish it probably, because I think it's ultimately an interesting failure and I've got a bunch to say, but I've been waiting until I finished the story and it keeps dragging out longer and longer
I saw someone start that game, and the gameplay looked interesting in the fire emblem style but the story elements were super rough.
The short version is that it is a game that is overstuffed with interesting but underdeveloped systems
I'm actually in the middle of obstinately finishing a game that had a bunch of Steam reviews mentioning its good story, so a lot of this rings very familiar.
Obviously if someone I trust and generally align with on media says that something has a good story, I might weigh that opinion a bit differently, but generally speaking I think there's definitely either a curve that people grade games on or a specific thing that good story means that might not actually be the way that you might conceptualize story as a whole (or both). Stuff like fun characters or detailed sidequest design definitely feels like things that regularly fall into the latter category.
What game?
Lost Eidolons, a Kickstarter Fire Emblem-like
I'll spend a while talking about it once I finish it probably, because I think it's ultimately an interesting failure and I've got a bunch to say, but I've been waiting until I finished the story and it keeps dragging out longer and longer
I saw someone start that game, and the gameplay looked interesting in the fire emblem style but the story elements were super rough.
The short version is that it is a game that is overstuffed with interesting but underdeveloped systems
The story is one of those, more or less
Well maybe a sequel can improve on what works and chunk what doesn't?
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Can confirm. I don’t follow Ken, he doesn’t show up as a search result. I’d have to get to his account by fully typing the @ name and clicking that “go to” link.
I cannot replicate the “replaced in search results” behavior.
Maybe not cynical, but it certainly seems reductionist to say that video game storytelling is just "a lot of fun characters talking at you". Like, it's kind of hard to engage with that kind of criticism.
+11
BlackDragon480Bluster KerfuffleMaster of Windy ImportRegistered Userregular
Maybe not cynical, but it certainly seems reductionist to say that video game storytelling is just "a lot of fun characters talking at you". Like, it's kind of hard to engage with that kind of criticism.
it's a good thing that i did not say that then. das a whole different sentence.
Maybe not cynical, but it certainly seems reductionist to say that video game storytelling is just "a lot of fun characters talking at you". Like, it's kind of hard to engage with that kind of criticism.
But that genuinely is the mechanism through which a lot of storytelling happens? Like, the player often IS the camera, is the microphone, is the place where everything is funneled directly towards. Other mediums can use the margins of their canvases in more subtle ways, because it's understood where those margins are, but video games (by dint of their very nature) have flexible margins, multiple places where attention could be. As a result, a lot of video game storytelling can feel like... Fun characters talking at you. You get into a dialogue system where the borders are locked off and your attention is held. You get into a cutscene where the camera's taken and your focus is narrowed. Telling stories with those limitations leads to certain trends in how stories are delivered.
I personally find it an easier criticism to engage with than, "You must not like games and I feel bad for you"
allow me to restate my point with stronger emphasis as "when people say "that's a good story", what they are often actually saying is "i felt it was fun how the characters talked to me", and two examples that I think reflect this are the Bioware games that people like, and the Final Fantasy that people are currently talking about", and to follow it up with "well-written characters are also not a bad thing, but they are just one aspect of a story. they can make up for a lot! there are many shows on tv or movies for example that have abysmal plotting but which are carried by charismatic characters and actors, who are fun and entertaining to watch"
I've heard that the general response to Twitter Blue being rolled out in Japan is "this is not worth the money" but I haven't found any English language articles talking about it so I'm not sure if that's actually the case or not
Can confirm. I don’t follow Ken, he doesn’t show up as a search result. I’d have to get to his account by fully typing the @ name and clicking that “go to” link.
I cannot replicate the “replaced in search results” behavior.
Probably it's some algorithm thing specific to the user. That's how it usually goes. "wHy Is ThE wEbSiTe SuGgEsTiNG tHiNg"
Maybe not cynical, but it certainly seems reductionist to say that video game storytelling is just "a lot of fun characters talking at you". Like, it's kind of hard to engage with that kind of criticism.
it's a good thing that i did not say that then. das a whole different sentence.
in fact i would largely say that when people say that video game stories are good, what they actually mean is "there's a lot of fun characters that talk at you."
Or are you saying that isn't your view, but that's other people's view?
fake edit: okay that makes more sense, and I appreciate the clarification. It read originally as your point of view of the stories.
Maybe not cynical, but it certainly seems reductionist to say that video game storytelling is just "a lot of fun characters talking at you". Like, it's kind of hard to engage with that kind of criticism.
But that genuinely is the mechanism through which a lot of storytelling happens? Like, the player often IS the camera, is the microphone, is the place where everything is funneled directly towards. Other mediums can use the margins of their canvases in more subtle ways, because it's understood where those margins are, but video games (by dint of their very nature) have flexible margins, multiple places where attention could be. As a result, a lot of video game storytelling can feel like... Fun characters talking at you. You get into a dialogue system where the borders are locked off and your attention is held. You get into a cutscene where the camera's taken and your focus is narrowed. Telling stories with those limitations leads to certain trends in how stories are delivered.
I personally find it an easier criticism to engage with than, "You must not like games and I feel bad for you"
See I agree with all of this complete, I just meant that the statement "videogame storytelling is just fun characters talking at you" by itself is a hard thing to engage with because there's just a lot to unpack with it as you articulated
I've heard that the general response to Twitter Blue being rolled out in Japan is "this is not worth the money" but I haven't found any English language articles talking about it so I'm not sure if that's actually the case or not
The only feature they've actually added is the blue checkmark, right? Like all the other features are still "planned to release soon" or something, right?
Know what game I feel like balanced people talking at you and also environmental cues really well? Half Life 2
Like that game's kinda become a bit of a Citizen Kane moment for almost every single FPS since besides like, Devil Daggers, but I do feel like the quiet bits of that game have as much to say as the talky bits, especially for a game originally released in 2004
Sir FabulousMalevolent Squid GodRegistered Userregular
I play mostly JRPGs so to me a good video game story is when the characters have a 5 minute cutscene where each character has at least one line showing off their singular personality trait, there's an uncomfortable sexual joke about teenagers, and the rest of the conversation is repeating the themes of the game for the 100th time.
Rather than a 10 minute cutscene that has the same structure.
Posts
Obviously if someone I trust and generally align with on media says that something has a good story, I might weigh that opinion a bit differently, but generally speaking I think there's definitely either a curve that people grade games on or a specific thing that good story means that might not actually be the way that you might conceptualize story as a whole (or both). Stuff like fun characters or detailed sidequest design definitely feels like things that regularly fall into the latter category.
i understand why a lot of people go, and that sometimes you can find them in other places, but I find the forum is still the easiest place to just chat about general stuff
but I suppose someday I too will diminish and go into the west
Him and ye were neck to neck for awhile
pleasepaypreacher.net
I dont think Preacher is divorced.
musk is genuinely not cool enough to own a racecar bed
Preacher also didn't go Defcon 1.
He has done that no less that four times
No that was DefJam the record label.
Just want to pop in here and say that this isn't a cynical take, there's nothing cynical about the idea that games don't generally have very good storytelling. It may be different than your taste, but it's not cynical.
oh there was more pages here weren't there, innit? aw beans.
I too mourn (most of) those former acquaintances and friends who no long maek poast
This will actually be the 15 year I've been married!
pleasepaypreacher.net
What game?
Lost Eidolons, a Kickstarter Fire Emblem-like
I'll spend a while talking about it once I finish it probably, because I think it's ultimately an interesting failure and I've got a bunch to say, but I've been waiting until I finished the story and it keeps dragging out longer and longer
I saw someone start that game, and the gameplay looked interesting in the fire emblem style but the story elements were super rough.
pleasepaypreacher.net
to the same person tho?
I believe so, but ever since we became the thing its hard to gauge whats real me and what's thing.
pleasepaypreacher.net
no need for divorce if your partner dies!
The short version is that it is a game that is overstuffed with interesting but underdeveloped systems
The story is one of those, more or less
Well maybe a sequel can improve on what works and chunk what doesn't?
pleasepaypreacher.net
I cannot replicate the “replaced in search results” behavior.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
it's a good thing that i did not say that then. das a whole different sentence.
But that genuinely is the mechanism through which a lot of storytelling happens? Like, the player often IS the camera, is the microphone, is the place where everything is funneled directly towards. Other mediums can use the margins of their canvases in more subtle ways, because it's understood where those margins are, but video games (by dint of their very nature) have flexible margins, multiple places where attention could be. As a result, a lot of video game storytelling can feel like... Fun characters talking at you. You get into a dialogue system where the borders are locked off and your attention is held. You get into a cutscene where the camera's taken and your focus is narrowed. Telling stories with those limitations leads to certain trends in how stories are delivered.
I personally find it an easier criticism to engage with than, "You must not like games and I feel bad for you"
But...you did?
Or are you saying that isn't your view, but that's other people's view?
fake edit: okay that makes more sense, and I appreciate the clarification. It read originally as your point of view of the stories.
See I agree with all of this complete, I just meant that the statement "videogame storytelling is just fun characters talking at you" by itself is a hard thing to engage with because there's just a lot to unpack with it as you articulated
The only feature they've actually added is the blue checkmark, right? Like all the other features are still "planned to release soon" or something, right?
Hey, @Poorochondriac
I've missed your posts, I hope you're doing well.
Oh so The Last of Us 2
Like that game's kinda become a bit of a Citizen Kane moment for almost every single FPS since besides like, Devil Daggers, but I do feel like the quiet bits of that game have as much to say as the talky bits, especially for a game originally released in 2004
Rather than a 10 minute cutscene that has the same structure.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906