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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] - This Place Is Not A Place Of Honour

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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    I feel like it's 100% a culture war. Most people, as shown by numerous polls, either don't care or are like "just let people live" in their viewpoint. This is a very small group of influential second wave feminists and their supporters vs trans women (they don't care about trans men it seems) that has been amplified into a massive political hot potato because it is of interest to certain people to do so.

    There is a streak of dislike for trans men but it mostly seems to come from older lesbians who have constructed the idea that if not for The Transgender Agenda trans men would otherwise be masc/butch presenting lesbians, so they tend to couch it in the language of lesbian erasure

    Which is interesting for a couple of reasons, one of which is the assumption that trans men would be attracted to women, and the other of which is that I think it's instructive to consider this from the point of view that most misogyny is rooted in placing value on people based on whether or not you would want to have sex with them

    Considered that way, that really bizarre Allison Bailey article where she went on a strange pseudo erotic polemic about top surgery suddenly makes a lot more sense

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I do find it amusing that during all of this Rowling continues to publish books under a male pseudonym.
    WHAT IS SHE TRYING TO HIDE

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    I feel like it's 100% a culture war. Most people, as shown by numerous polls, either don't care or are like "just let people live" in their viewpoint. This is a very small group of influential second wave feminists and their supporters vs trans women (they don't care about trans men it seems) that has been amplified into a massive political hot potato because it is of interest to certain people to do so.

    The focus on trans women has gotten me thinking that there is an element of misandry in this particular bit of hate. Like having a penis is an original sin, and anyone acting otherwise is just looking to invade women's bathrooms and get their rape on.

    A huge amount of the influential TERFs are essentially of the gender essentialist view that all men are violent predators yes

    Sadly, many of them are victims of male sexual abuse and domestic violence. Like Rowling for example.

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    Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    edited April 3
    klemming wrote: »
    I do find it amusing that during all of this Rowling continues to publish books under a male pseudonym.
    WHAT IS SHE TRYING TO HIDE

    I think she was trying to prove to herself that she still had it. That she would be successful even without Harry Potter. This was deffo the case for the casual vacancy but it didn't really work. It didn't sell well and only started climbing the charts after a highly suspicious leak to the press on who the real author was.

    Why she is still doing it is anyone's guess.

    Mc zany on
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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    Is it that the money and fame corrupted Rowling or was she always this shitty and the money and fame highlighted it/gave her a platform?
    There's hours long essays on this stuff, but as a short summary...

    Having read Harry Potter, it's all about standing up against bullies, and one of its main lessons is that it doesn't matter what your parents are, you're a wizard all the same. There's also a lot of story lines about autocratic adults as bad people.

    In retrospect, there's also a lot of subjects left untouched in the books but generally her fans felt betrayed by her outspoken hatred towards so many people. People who might have been inspired by the Wizarding World in the past.

    There's a lot of bad stuff in the books (house elves yikes) but the theme does seem to push back on exactly what Rowling has become now. I mean she has become Umbridge. And that she doesn't see the irony in this is mindblowing.

    The criticism of House Elves is weird to me. The books are extremely heavy on the "this is 100% fucked up and inexcusable" text. The Goblins are more sus really...

    Anyway it's a shame. HP as a cultural phenomenon was something special to me once upon a time and for it basically to be obliterated in an insane culture war is saddening.

    The house elf thing is 100% fucked up and speaks to the core of Rowlings political philosophy. She so neo-liberal to the core she cannot comprehend the idea of abolishing a rotten institution, even when that institution is slavery. Yes, she makes some hints towards some people thinking the chattel slavery of sentient beings is in fact, bad, but crucially she also makes it plain this is something that is part of wizarding society and therefore should not be changed.

    The only person in the entire setting who reacts appropriately to the idea of chattel slavery is treated as some shrill whinger that everyone, even her own best friends, roll their eyes at whenever she points out how abhorrent it is. All the "sensible" and "normal" people in the setting treat her like a nutcase and by the end of the series the solution to the entire moral quandary that's been brought up is... nothing. The house elves remain slaves and it has to stay that way because thats just the way it is. The ones that don't enjoy slavery just have to suck it up for the good of everyone else or hope they get a "nice" master who decides to free them.

    Rowling is the kind of person who if she'd been alive in 1900 would have been against giving women the vote on the grounds it would be too societally disruptive. If she had been in favour of it , it would only have been because she herself is a woman. The system as it stands has by some million to one chance worked out well for her so it must stay the way it is, discrimination isn't discrimination unless it targets a group she's a member of. Fuck you, got mine.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Mc zany wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    I do find it amusing that during all of this Rowling continues to publish books under a male pseudonym.
    WHAT IS SHE TRYING TO HIDE

    I think she was trying to prove to herself that she still had it. That she would be successful even without Harry Potter. This was deffo the case for the casual vacancy but it didn't really work. It didn't sell well and only started climbing the charts after a highly suspicious leak to the press on who the real author was.

    Why she is still doing it is anyone's guess.

    Given she's pushing the claim that men are posing as women to prey on vulnerable women, following her logic with her posing as a man...
    Hmm. I wonder if anyone's asked her about the optics of that.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    The house elf thing isn't really about the elves or their situation. Its there to give Herimone something to do and to make a point about people who get involved in causes that they don't understand. Also, while the characters treat it as an annoyance the story doesn't. Dumbledore frees the elves at Hogwarts, Dobby being freed is portrayed as a triumph and in the mobile game (taking place in 2011) a house elf remembers the organisation and says that elves were silly to dismiss it and paises Dobby.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited April 3
    Casual wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    Is it that the money and fame corrupted Rowling or was she always this shitty and the money and fame highlighted it/gave her a platform?
    There's hours long essays on this stuff, but as a short summary...

    Having read Harry Potter, it's all about standing up against bullies, and one of its main lessons is that it doesn't matter what your parents are, you're a wizard all the same. There's also a lot of story lines about autocratic adults as bad people.

    In retrospect, there's also a lot of subjects left untouched in the books but generally her fans felt betrayed by her outspoken hatred towards so many people. People who might have been inspired by the Wizarding World in the past.

    There's a lot of bad stuff in the books (house elves yikes) but the theme does seem to push back on exactly what Rowling has become now. I mean she has become Umbridge. And that she doesn't see the irony in this is mindblowing.

    The criticism of House Elves is weird to me. The books are extremely heavy on the "this is 100% fucked up and inexcusable" text. The Goblins are more sus really...

    Anyway it's a shame. HP as a cultural phenomenon was something special to me once upon a time and for it basically to be obliterated in an insane culture war is saddening.

    The house elf thing is 100% fucked up and speaks to the core of Rowlings political philosophy. She so neo-liberal to the core she cannot comprehend the idea of abolishing a rotten institution, even when that institution is slavery. Yes, she makes some hints towards some people thinking the chattel slavery of sentient beings is in fact, bad, but crucially she also makes it plain this is something that is part of wizarding society and therefore should not be changed.

    The only person in the entire setting who reacts appropriately to the idea of chattel slavery is treated as some shrill whinger that everyone, even her own best friends, roll their eyes at whenever she points out how abhorrent it is. All the "sensible" and "normal" people in the setting treat her like a nutcase and by the end of the series the solution to the entire moral quandary that's been brought up is... nothing. The house elves remain slaves and it has to stay that way because thats just the way it is. The ones that don't enjoy slavery just have to suck it up for the good of everyone else or hope they get a "nice" master who decides to free them.

    Rowling is the kind of person who if she'd been alive in 1900 would have been against giving women the vote on the grounds it would be too societally disruptive. If she had been in favour of it , it would only have been because she herself is a woman. The system as it stands has by some million to one chance worked out well for her so it must stay the way it is, discrimination isn't discrimination unless it targets a group she's a member of. Fuck you, got mine.

    I don't know if I'd agree with your interpretation tbh. If you remember from the books, Hermione is presented as absolutely right about House Elves, and its just one part of Wizarding society that is shown to be utterly fucked. Its not shown to be like, normal or okay, just a lot of people think it is and think she's a really annoying shrew. I think in the last book Ron is like "fuck I was so wrong all along on this and you were right"

    Admittedly its been years but its definitely not shown as like, okay. And your point about it being good cos wizarding society does it is just wrong, the last few books are absolutely about how wizarding society is pretty awful and stratified and racist. The way the statue in the MoM is described, etc. The books are very much like "yay a magical world! Oh actually it's... pretty disgusting in places?"

    Solar on
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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    The elves themselves disagree with Hermione, and are perfectly happy with being slaves: Dobby's a weird outlier, and the moral regarding Kreacher seems to be "treat your slaves properly": nobody thinks about freeing him despite him having little to no use as a servant

    And I've only read the last two books once each, so I can't remember if that's ever dealt with in the main series

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    I mean lots of HP has been flanderised (see people identifying with being Slytherins cos they see it as being cool, aloof, sexy and mean, rather than their actual theme in the books which is blood purity) so I get it but I do think that people read it very weirdly. Not that it even matters because realistically her modern dive into transphobia is basically nothing to do with her HP books and seems to just be total mental derangement tbh

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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Mc zany wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    I do find it amusing that during all of this Rowling continues to publish books under a male pseudonym.
    WHAT IS SHE TRYING TO HIDE

    I think she was trying to prove to herself that she still had it. That she would be successful even without Harry Potter. This was deffo the case for the casual vacancy but it didn't really work. It didn't sell well and only started climbing the charts after a highly suspicious leak to the press on who the real author was.

    Why she is still doing it is anyone's guess.

    Given she's pushing the claim that men are posing as women to prey on vulnerable women, following her logic with her posing as a man...
    Hmm. I wonder if anyone's asked her about the optics of that.

    I assume she thinks its fine since women can't be predators.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    HerrCronHerrCron It that wickedly supports taxation Registered User regular
    Is it that the money and fame corrupted Rowling or was she always this shitty and the money and fame highlighted it/gave her a platform?

    Much like certain types of cancer, when a British person gets to a certain age, the chances of them getting the TERF brainworms increases drastically.
    It's just how it is.
    Not even all the wealth made from writing an Enid Blyton series with the serial numbers filled off can help.

    Now Playing:
    Dragon Ball FighterZ [PC] - Sure is a lot of not killing Goku going on right now.
    Celeste [Switch] - She'll be wrestling with inner demons when she comes...
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    The elves themselves disagree with Hermione, and are perfectly happy with being slaves: Dobby's a weird outlier, and the moral regarding Kreacher seems to be "treat your slaves properly": nobody thinks about freeing him despite him having little to no use as a servant

    And I've only read the last two books once each, so I can't remember if that's ever dealt with in the main series

    IIRC this is more shown as "look how absolutely fucked up they have been" rather than "nah it's cool they like it that way" because they've been brutalised so much

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    ArchangleArchangle Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    The elves themselves disagree with Hermione, and are perfectly happy with being slaves: Dobby's a weird outlier, and the moral regarding Kreacher seems to be "treat your slaves properly": nobody thinks about freeing him despite him having little to no use as a servant

    And I've only read the last two books once each, so I can't remember if that's ever dealt with in the main series

    IIRC this is more shown as "look how absolutely fucked up they have been" rather than "nah it's cool they like it that way" because they've been brutalised so much
    There's an apocryphal story of an experiment done on a troop of monkeys who were put in a cage with a bunch of bananas, and every time a single monkey touched the bananas the whole troop got sprayed with a hose.

    Pretty soon the monkeys stopped trying to touch the bananas, so they swapped out one of the monkeys with a new monkey who hadn't received the hose treatment. That monkey would attempt to touch the bananas, and get the whole troop sprayed.

    When that monkey had learned not to touch the bananas, they'd swap out one of the monkeys again. What swiftly happened was that the troop worked out that the new monkey was going to get them all sprayed, so the rest of the troop started attacking the new monkey if it attempted to touch the bananas. The hose spray was no longer required - the troop would teach, by force if necessary, the newcomers not to touch the bananas.

    Even more than this, they slowly swapped the monkeys out one by one, with the new monkey being attacked/taught by the rest of the group not to touch the bananas, until none of the members of the current troop had ever been sprayed by the hose. But they sure knew not to touch the bananas, and would continue to teach newcomers to also not touch.

    The moral being - institutionalised crabbucketing is a hell of a thing.

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    Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    Green Party Spring Broadcast:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec7L2XB4hyQ

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    Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    Some more stuff in the BBC news about the Tavistock clinic today, regarding puberty blockers and the Cass review etc.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68770641

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68778922

    TERF in chief Helen Joyce was also given a platform on BBC NEWS 24 via a 10 minute long interview, presumably for the sake of 'balance'. 🙄😑

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    Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    edited April 11
    Zilla360 on
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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    Real glad Have I Got News For You is back on, it's such a delight to hear others laugh about ridiculous figures in politics. Just feels great to have some confirmation that stuff is silly.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Aldo wrote: »
    Real glad Have I Got News For You is back on, it's such a delight to hear others laugh about ridiculous figures in politics. Just feels great to have some confirmation that stuff is silly.

    It was Mock the Week that got canned, right?

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Aldo wrote: »
    Real glad Have I Got News For You is back on, it's such a delight to hear others laugh about ridiculous figures in politics. Just feels great to have some confirmation that stuff is silly.

    Clive Myrie hosting, with Marianna Spring and Jon Richardson on the teams, was one hell of a line-up for the first episode too. And Hislop was definitely not in a mood to be pulling punches either.

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited April 12
    In other news, I'm fuming that my district council now has a "subscription fee" for garden waste bins to be collected, going from zilch (well, covered by council tax) to £57 a year as of 1 April.

    It's less the charge itself that bothers me - annoying as that is on its own merits when my council tax has of course just gone up - as the fact that apparently everybody knew about this except me. I literally only found out about this yesterday from a neighbour, too late to get the sub in for the bin to get picked up this morning (I literally watched the truck show up, the guy empty everyone else's bins and mention my house number into his radio before leaving my bin where it was), and apparently it can take two weeks to process a new subscription so there's a possibility it might even miss the next pick up too if they don't process it quickly enough.

    I have a major problem with apparently missing out on information that other people get - I think it stems from when I started a new school back when I was a kid, and everyone - meaning other new kids in particular, for the apples-to-apples comparison - seemed to know where everywhere was on day one while I was completely lost as to what was where, like I'd missed some kind of layout orientation or something. So this rankles, hard. I'm certain I haven't forgotten about some letter from the council informing us of this, I'd have bloody remembered this even with my crap memory and I'd have grudgingly coughed up for the sub ahead of time.

    Guess my bin gets to sit there full for the next fortnight. Really fucking helpful.

    Jazz on
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    Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    I'm amazed you've been getting it free for so long! I've long seen it as a stealth 'garden tax', but find it hard to begrudge as the underfunded councils need the money and it's vaguely means related if you have a garden big enough to justify the need?

    MhCw7nZ.gif
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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited April 12
    I'm amazed you've been getting it free for so long! I've long seen it as a stealth 'garden tax', but find it hard to begrudge as the underfunded councils need the money and it's vaguely means related if you have a garden big enough to justify the need?

    I don't have a big garden - my two-bedroom mid-terrace isn't large and my small garden has no lawn. But I unfortunately do still have enough other stuff that needs disposing of to warrant having the sub rather than trying to bag it up every couple of weeks from spring to autumn and cart it down to the tip in my car that is wholly unsuited to such a job. (Which I may try to do with this bin load rather than let it sit, there's more that needs doing that I can't realistically leave for a month.)

    Like I said, the cost isn't what bothers me (despite somewhat limited means) so much as that I apparently missed, or from my POV was not informed, that this change was happening until it was too late.

    I mentioned it to a friend yesterday and she said she'd had a charge before, and hers had just gone up (ironically to slightly less than what my charge will be). Different district council though.

    Jazz on
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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    I'm surprised HIGNFY can still function in todays political climate for the same reason they immediately chucked the idea of making another "the thick of it". How the fuck do you satirize todays politicians? How do you make funnies out of whats going on today? Everyones poor, the state is collapsing and the Tories are lapsing into the cringiest and lamest kind of fascism.... Haha what fun!

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    RazielMortemRazielMortem Registered User regular
    It's one of the last political shows the BBC allows because they've become so paranoid over the government shutting them down. The infiltration of Tory yes men into the beeb really puts a lie to the idea it's a 'bunch of lefties'.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    I'm surprised HIGNFY can still function in todays political climate for the same reason they immediately chucked the idea of making another "the thick of it". How the fuck do you satirize todays politicians? How do you make funnies out of whats going on today? Everyones poor, the state is collapsing and the Tories are lapsing into the cringiest and lamest kind of fascism.... Haha what fun!
    It just becomes a regular news show with a laugh track.
    Once they decide to add a live studio audience to the News at Ten, HIGNFY will finally die.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    I'm surprised HIGNFY can still function in todays political climate for the same reason they immediately chucked the idea of making another "the thick of it". How the fuck do you satirize todays politicians? How do you make funnies out of whats going on today? Everyones poor, the state is collapsing and the Tories are lapsing into the cringiest and lamest kind of fascism.... Haha what fun!

    It's to the point where Ian Hislop in particular is calling out blatant corruption - in terms that blunt - and straight-up asking why people aren't in jail.

    Funny enough, this has just popped up in the ol' news notifications:

    Police to investigate Angela Rayner over residency declaration

    As Hislop put it in last week's episode, "Angela Rayner may have fiddled up to £1,500 on her council tax. Says a book published by Lord Ashcroft who avoided £112million when he was a non-dom."

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    RazielMortemRazielMortem Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    I'm surprised HIGNFY can still function in todays political climate for the same reason they immediately chucked the idea of making another "the thick of it". How the fuck do you satirize todays politicians? How do you make funnies out of whats going on today? Everyones poor, the state is collapsing and the Tories are lapsing into the cringiest and lamest kind of fascism.... Haha what fun!

    It's to the point where Ian Hislop in particular is calling out blatant corruption - in terms that blunt - and straight-up asking why people aren't in jail.

    Funny enough, this has just popped up in the ol' news notifications:

    Police to investigate Angela Rayner over residency declaration

    As Hislop put it in last week's episode, "Angela Rayner may have fiddled up to £1,500 on her council tax. Says a book published by Lord Ashcroft who avoided £112million when he was a non-dom."

    The Rayner thing is infuriating. Look - any fraud by MPs is bad, but FFS the Tories gave billions to their mates during Covid and are strip mining the country while they hide their taxes off-shore - and Rayner's thousand quid is what we focus on?!

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    Says a book published by Lord Ashcroft who avoided £112million when he was a non-dom."

    Is sub/submissive no longer appropriate?

    Or does that mean something else?

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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Jazz wrote: »
    Says a book published by Lord Ashcroft who avoided £112million when he was a non-dom."

    Is sub/submissive no longer appropriate?

    Or does that mean something else?

    "Non domiciled"

    It's a tax loophole where people effectively designate themselves as non-UK residents for tax purposes, only exploitable by the wealthy as it requires that you have a residence outside the UK which you can designate as your domicile, but doesn't require that you actually live there

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    altidaltid Registered User regular
    If Rayner has done anything wrong it's more than likely a simple mistake in an area that most people don't really know about or fully understand, especially as the alleged value is relatively trivial for somebody in her position. That Manchester police, much like Durham police, are investigating a non-issue at the behest of the tories is dangerous and open corruption.

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    Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    TBF non doms still have to pay tax on any earnings which orginate in the UK and it is being phased out.

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    Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Mc zany wrote: »
    TBF non doms still have to pay tax on any earnings which orginate in the UK and it is being phased out.

    Yes, that is what the Tories are selling you. But of course, once you start to look into the details...

    First, off, lets look at the treasury disbanding the non-dom tax policy unit weeks before they announced the changes at the budget

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/07/treasury-non-dom-tax-policy-budget-taxation

    And while we all got a chuckle at the headlines of the Tories stealing Labour's idea about non-doms, it's not quite that simple. In fact, I'd wager the Tories loved that headline, because it looks like people didn't really get a look at it.

    Tory Plans to Abolish non-dom status riddled with loopholes, Labour says

    Analysis by Labour seemed to suggest Sunak's own family would benefit of tax savings of £250 million.

    It honestly came as a bit of a surprise that the Tories said they were going to sort out the non-dom loophole status, but then , nope there it is, legislation that doesn't really sort out what it's supposed to do when it comes to the ultra-wealthy.

    With regards to Raynor, I look forward to hearing about Boris Johnson's opinion on this in whatever rag he's writing for. I guess the press has all now forgotten about that (now ex) Tory who bravely came forward for admitting he gave away his colleagues contact details.

    PSN Fleety2009
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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Jazz wrote: »
    Says a book published by Lord Ashcroft who avoided £112million when he was a non-dom."

    Is sub/submissive no longer appropriate?

    Or does that mean something else?

    Yeah, pretty sure that's something else :lol:

    That gave me a much-needed laugh though! So thank you :lol:

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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    One of my neighbours has informed me they got a letter about the bins thing back in December or thereabouts. But also that there are a bunch of people on Facebook saying they didn't get letters, so it's not just me being a scatterbrain! Probably!

    ...small mercies, right?

    Anyway, I've signed up and paid them their blood money. Hopefully normal service will be resumed in a fortnight.

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    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    .
    Casual wrote: »
    I'm surprised HIGNFY can still function in todays political climate for the same reason they immediately chucked the idea of making another "the thick of it". How the fuck do you satirize todays politicians? How do you make funnies out of whats going on today? Everyones poor, the state is collapsing and the Tories are lapsing into the cringiest and lamest kind of fascism.... Haha what fun!

    Even when it's not funny it's at least always satisfying to hear Hislop go off on one.

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    altidaltid Registered User regular
    edited April 15
    I can never get over how absurd hearing "Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron" is. He tends to fade into the background of all the other chaos from this government until some world event rolls him out onto the news again. It's the double whammy of a failed former PM being in cabinet again and that we have a lord appointed to one of the highest offices.

    The election really can't come soon enough.

    altid on
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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    The election really can't come soon enough.
    Don't worry, it won't.
    Sunak's going to cling to that ledge until he has to let go. I might put some money on it not actually being called this year. It can go into 28th January before it has to be called, right?

    The important thing is that hopefully by then we'll have managed to deport an asylum seeker to Rwanda at a cost of millions of pounds, thereby proving that the system works and stopping all illegal immigration forever.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    I can never get over how absurd hearing "Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron" is. He tends to fade into the background of all the other chaos from this government until some world event rolls him out onto the news again. It's the double whammy of a failed former PM being in cabinet again and that we have a lord appointed to one of the highest offices.

    The election really can't come soon enough.

    It says something about the sheer degree of the non-entities in the government and the Parliamentary Tory party that, by comparison, it feels like we have someone vaguely competent in at least one of the great offices of state. Then you remember what he did.

    And he still looks less bad than the others by comparison.

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    RazielMortemRazielMortem Registered User regular
    Lord Cameron is the least worst option the Tories can field I guess. I mean imagine Badenoch...

    At this point the Tories are probably hoping for WW3 so they can just enact martial law and never leave.

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