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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] - This Place Is Not A Place Of Honour

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I would put Corbyn maybe as Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. Advocates strongly for workers' rights. Would sort out a lot of people on zero hour contracts or BS minimum wage struggling around the poverty line. Would be very passionate about it, almost certainly improve life for millions, and keeps him out of trouble on foreign policy.

    I mean, Brexit was clearly going to be fucking terrible for workers and pensions. And he could only stomach being 7/10 against

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    BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    This talk about the Thames reminds me that there's a substantial amount of Magna Carta dedicated to legal wrangling over fish weirs.

    No matter where you go...there you are.
    ~ Buckaroo Banzai
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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    I would put Corbyn maybe as Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. Advocates strongly for workers' rights. Would sort out a lot of people on zero hour contracts or BS minimum wage struggling around the poverty line. Would be very passionate about it, almost certainly improve life for millions, and keeps him out of trouble on foreign policy.

    I don't even know if I'd want Corbyn in charge of a church fate. I don't think I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's a clueless but ultimately well meaning and harmless old fool. At the point you publicly associate with Bosnian genocide deniers and are constantly and persistently found carrying water for murdering authoritarians and kleptocracies, I feel justified in saying he knows what he's doing. He isn't harmless and he isn't just "slightly misguided" on foreign policy. He is the most toxic and dangerous kind of Tankie and he needs to be deplatformed and remembered only as an object lesson for Labour to keep their loony fringe away from power.

    Casual on
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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    evilthecat wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Her nemesis: Math

    Wasn't the problem her complete misunderstanding of basic economic principles?
    IIRC, she wanted to cut taxes and increase spending at a time when the country wasn't doing particularly well to which most economy experts said ..."what?"

    In other news, Jeremy Corbyn is on the "don't send weapons to UA, send diplomats".

    ugh

    Thank you, Jeremy Corbyn, for being the one human on earth who can make me think "well it's a good thing Boris fucking Johnson was in charge"

    And special mention to Liz Truss for being the one human on earth who made me think "I wish Boris fucking Johnson was still in charge".

    Jesus tap dancing Christ, UK politics are such a raging dumpster fire.

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    RazielMortemRazielMortem Registered User regular
    Liz Truss coming out strong with the 'doesn't get it' and 'I'm still smarter than everyone else' energy. Wow. I knew she was an idiot but she is an unrepentant idiot. I hope she gets kicked out at the next election. She's somehow more dangerous than Boris. At least he was just lazy and corrupt so left actual governing to smarter people. Why does a GE feel so far away - I mean 2020/1 felt like it lasted for at least 10 years....

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    "Okay, just because I drove the economy directly into the ground with genuinely record-breaking speed the moment I was in charge, that doesn't mean I was wrong, or that the economy wouldn't be doing great right now if I were in charge."

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Speaking of Beej, has his brother’s sudden weekend resignation from his executive post at a Mauritius-based fund that was credibly accused (with receipts) in the past few days of helping friend-of-Modi and evil rich ballsack Gautam Adani cook the books to inflate his Indian companies’ stock price made the rounds in the papers or is there just too much other wank going on in UK politics for yet-another Johnson sticking in it story to be newsworthy

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    evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    Speaking of Beej, has his brother’s sudden weekend resignation from his executive post at a Mauritius-based fund that was credibly accused (with receipts) in the past few days of helping friend-of-Modi and evil rich ballsack Gautam Adani cook the books to inflate his Indian companies’ stock price made the rounds in the papers or is there just too much other wank going on in UK politics for yet-another Johnson sticking in it story to be newsworthy

    first i'm hearing of it and nothing on reddit?
    got an article for that somewhere?

    while perusing reddit (although this should come as a surprise to no one):

    Liz Truss claims neither she, kwarteng or the treasury were warned of how horrifically bad her idea was. Turns out that was a lie as a uni prof informed the treasury of precisely that.

    evilthecat on
    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/02/jo-johnson-resigns-director-adani-elara-capital

    Also learned from this article that Lord Johnson was also recently a board member of Binance

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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    evilthecat wrote: »
    Speaking of Beej, has his brother’s sudden weekend resignation from his executive post at a Mauritius-based fund that was credibly accused (with receipts) in the past few days of helping friend-of-Modi and evil rich ballsack Gautam Adani cook the books to inflate his Indian companies’ stock price made the rounds in the papers or is there just too much other wank going on in UK politics for yet-another Johnson sticking in it story to be newsworthy

    first i'm hearing of it and nothing on reddit?
    got an article for that somewhere?

    while perusing reddit (although this should come as a surprise to no one):

    Liz Truss claims neither she, kwarteng or the treasury were warned of how horrifically bad her idea was. Turns out that was a lie as a uni prof informed the treasury of precisely that.

    It's a pretty tough lie to sell when we were all there and saw everyone from laymen to experts and everything in-between positively screaming at her during the leadership race that her plans were economically illiterate. She's treating it like it was some obscure interdepartmental memo behind the scenes and not something that happened very publicly.

    I used to think Truss was just a power hungry chancer saying whatever she thought people wanted to hear, but I genuinely think she's the most dangerously delusional PM I can remember and that includes BoJo. I've never seen this level of commitment to "No actually, it's reality that's wrong". When you build a house on quicksand and the predictable thing happens, it takes some degree of actual insanity to say "if the sand hadn't conspired against me the house would have risen back up in the medium to long term". BoJo would have either backed down in the face of so many people not feeding his ego, or if he had gone ahead with it would have at least realised it was a mistake before publicly lauding it as a massive success and moving swiftly on. I don't think even he would've carried on with the definition of insanity.

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    fedaykin666fedaykin666 Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    I would put Corbyn maybe as Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. Advocates strongly for workers' rights. Would sort out a lot of people on zero hour contracts or BS minimum wage struggling around the poverty line. Would be very passionate about it, almost certainly improve life for millions, and keeps him out of trouble on foreign policy.

    I don't even know if I'd want Corbyn in charge of a church fate. I don't think I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's a clueless but ultimately well meaning and harmless old fool. At the point you publicly associate with Bosnian genocide deniers and are constantly and persistently found carrying water for murdering authoritarians and kleptocracies, I feel justified in saying he knows what he's doing. He isn't harmless and he isn't just "slightly misguided" on foreign policy. He is the most toxic and dangerous kind of Tankie and he needs to be deplatformed and remembered only as an object lesson for Labour to keep their loony fringe away from power.

    That's fair enough. I don't disagree but I feel with the literal corrupt criminals looting the country into poverty, unsafe housing, starvation wages, collapsing health sevices, transport etc. the Labour party should be as broad a coalition as possible and I'm willing to tolerate a great deal to pragmatically kick the real bastards out. I don't think he would be bad in a context of workers' rights versus big business.

    My former local Labour MP is a raving nutter who gave speeches on "socialist Brexit", but I still voted for him because he was relatively the best choice looking at his policy positions overall and the alternative of a Tory seat.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    Casual wrote: »
    I would put Corbyn maybe as Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. Advocates strongly for workers' rights. Would sort out a lot of people on zero hour contracts or BS minimum wage struggling around the poverty line. Would be very passionate about it, almost certainly improve life for millions, and keeps him out of trouble on foreign policy.

    I don't even know if I'd want Corbyn in charge of a church fate. I don't think I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's a clueless but ultimately well meaning and harmless old fool. At the point you publicly associate with Bosnian genocide deniers and are constantly and persistently found carrying water for murdering authoritarians and kleptocracies, I feel justified in saying he knows what he's doing. He isn't harmless and he isn't just "slightly misguided" on foreign policy. He is the most toxic and dangerous kind of Tankie and he needs to be deplatformed and remembered only as an object lesson for Labour to keep their loony fringe away from power.

    He's basically demonstrating how and why the far left has ceded foreign policy to other movements. Just like negative credibility here.

    shryke on
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I would put Corbyn maybe as Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. Advocates strongly for workers' rights. Would sort out a lot of people on zero hour contracts or BS minimum wage struggling around the poverty line. Would be very passionate about it, almost certainly improve life for millions, and keeps him out of trouble on foreign policy.

    I mean, Brexit was clearly going to be fucking terrible for workers and pensions. And he could only stomach being 7/10 against

    Corbyn tried to push through Brexit with a single market membership during May's time and would have managed it too except that the Lib Dems and a few others voted against it. I think it's fair to say that if Corbyn had got his way on that we'd be in a damn sight better position than we are now. Benefit of hindsight but it turns out when he said we have to leave and the best we can do is market membership, he was right

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    Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    edited February 2023
    Solar wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I would put Corbyn maybe as Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. Advocates strongly for workers' rights. Would sort out a lot of people on zero hour contracts or BS minimum wage struggling around the poverty line. Would be very passionate about it, almost certainly improve life for millions, and keeps him out of trouble on foreign policy.

    I mean, Brexit was clearly going to be fucking terrible for workers and pensions. And he could only stomach being 7/10 against

    Corbyn tried to push through Brexit with a single market membership during May's time and would have managed it too except that the Lib Dems and a few others voted against it. I think it's fair to say that if Corbyn had got his way on that we'd be in a damn sight better position than we are now. Benefit of hindsight but it turns out when he said we have to leave and the best we can do is market membership, he was right

    Huh?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/08/jeremy-corbyn-eu-single-market-after-brexit
    Jeremy Corbyn insists UK cannot remain in single market after Brexit

    Alistair Hutton on
    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

    I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.

    Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    I think the only real policy Corbyn had on Brexit was “oh shit the Torries are doing what I always wanted to do and I get to blame them for the fallout”.

    If Corbyn’s labor had pushed hard remain at any point or even just been friendly to a remain coalition with the lib dems there wouldn’t have been a brexit in the first place.

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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Brexit was a perfect storm of stupidity and we are immensely unlucky that so many bad things happened all at once to allow it to happen. Truly this is the bad timeline.

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    TroggTrogg Registered User regular
    I think the only real policy Corbyn had on Brexit was “oh shit the Torries are doing what I always wanted to do and I get to blame them for the fallout”.

    If Corbyn’s labor had pushed hard remain at any point or even just been friendly to a remain coalition with the lib dems there wouldn’t have been a brexit in the first place.
    "Corbyn's Labour" was dedicated to removing Corbyn from his leadership. The only thing that mattered was getting rid of Corbyn and anyone associated with him or his ideology. If that means Brexit happens, or the Tories win the 2019 election and inflict unspeakable devastation on the entire country, that's fine- as long we get rid of Corbyn.

    A house divided against itself cannot stand.

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    Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Jesus Christ, we're all annoyed at Truss coming back with her gormless expression telling us it wasn't actually her fault, it was everyone else's fault, we don't need to dig up another failed leader who is no longer relevant.

    It's almost like Corbyn's shitty views on things get brought up as a distraction. Like the one thing Johnson can point to as a positive, is his support for Ukraine, so lets go ask what Corbyn's view on it would be (as if we didn't know).

    PSN Fleety2009
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    RazielMortemRazielMortem Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    Corbyn lost the 2019 election. Let's nip the revisionist history in the bud. He was an appalling leader and was ambivalent at best on Brexit. He also lost the 2017 election. Against an extremely unpopular May.

    RazielMortem on
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    RazielMortemRazielMortem Registered User regular
    Basically every leader we've had in the country for the past 10+ years has been progressively worse and worse. Bring back Miliband, he's had a bit of renaissance recently.

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    evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Brexit was a perfect storm of stupidity and we are immensely unlucky that so many bad things happened all at once to allow it to happen. Truly this is the bad timeline.

    I slightly disagree with this. It wasn't really many things, just the one.
    Right-wing tabloids had been warning the uk public of crotch-eating unicorns for decades. And it's a story that worked wonders and kept the tories in power for years!
    Right up until Derpy Dave offered everyone the chance to go on a crotch-eating unicorn hunt. He thought no one would want to and he really wanted the people selling crotch-eating unicorn merch to go away.
    He couldn't read the room and has since retired to France.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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    RazielMortemRazielMortem Registered User regular
    I suspect in the future (if not now) historians will write books and books on Brexit. It was more complicated than Dave Done a DooDoo, but ultimately it doesn't really matter. No-one wants to learn from what happened, so we'll blunder on, probably make similar mistakes again. Eventually, maybe we'll rejoin when we're too sick to carry on. Or maybe we'll fragment into 4 smaller, sicker fragments and they will rejoin separately. Or we'll just get sicker, and bitterer and implode.

    But most importantly, not one person who voted for Brexit will ever, ever, admit they fucked up.

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    ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    without further comment:
    Could we get some further comment? You know, for the people who can't see whatever that is?

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    without further comment:
    Could we get some further comment? You know, for the people who can't see whatever that is?

    Also for those that can see it but but still can't really tell whatever that is?

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    ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
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    Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    ronya wrote: »

    Good lord, this is like staring into a self reflecting mirror. An infinite abyss of never ending three-stooges head slaps.

    All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
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    RazielMortemRazielMortem Registered User regular
    Ha. Ha ha. Hahaha haha. Every day British politics makes me feel more and more like the Joker. She's just so monumentally stupid. Her ego must be immense, maybe 2-3 Johnsons in size to support the obvious break from reality she can't handle.

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    MV5BMDRlNzMzNzItOWU0YS00NjViLWI3YmQtNjdmZTQ4YWM2YjJkXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyOTc5MDI5NjE@._V1_.jpg

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    Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    Ha. Ha ha. Hahaha haha. Every day British politics makes me feel more and more like the Joker. She's just so monumentally stupid. Her ego must be immense, maybe 2-3 Johnsons in size to support the obvious break from reality she can't handle.

    As stupid as she is, she’ll be able to answer the pub question

    “Which I’d the shortest serving pm?”

    “I’ll give you some clues, a lettuce outlasted them and she was unelected”

    Doesn’t matter what her ego tells her, she knows deep down those facts will follow her and that’ll eat at her for the rest of her life.

    Redcoat-13 on
    PSN Fleety2009
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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    MV5BMDRlNzMzNzItOWU0YS00NjViLWI3YmQtNjdmZTQ4YWM2YjJkXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyOTc5MDI5NjE@._V1_.jpg

    "McCroskeying" is my new favourite word. And yes, after Airplane, Dalton was the next thing that came to mind. And I lol'd, for realsies.

    Jazz on
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    SporkAndrewSporkAndrew Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Did I miss the rampant voter fraud in the last local elections? I've just had a flyer through telling me that a) my ward is changing and b) I need to bring photo ID to vote next year

    I wonder what section of people is most likely to either not have valid photo ID or have the time to go through the process of getting a "voting certificate" from their local council and who they would not ever have voted for. It is a mystery.

    Feels like the first step on the way back to "only landed gentry" can vote to try and keep the Tories in power through whatever means.

    The one about the fucking space hairdresser and the cowboy. He's got a tinfoil pal and a pedal bin
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Tories, to some extent, wish to be British Republicans.

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    RazielMortemRazielMortem Registered User regular
    I hope Labour repeal this stupid voting id crap. But I suspect they won't - once something is set, it's doubly hard to unset.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    When did they push the photo ID thing through? Last I'd heard they'd u-turned on it because of pushback. I assume they realised that the problem was letting people know it was happening and planned accordingly, but I'm curious when they snuck it back in. Was it during the scandal with Boris, the other scandal with Boris, the other other scandal with Boris, the fallout from Liz's tax bomb, the scandal with Liz, the scandal with Rishi, or all the strikes (yes, I know that's not close to an exhaustive list)?

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    I hope Labour repeal this stupid voting id crap. But I suspect they won't - once something is set, it's doubly hard to unset.

    It isn't though? I mean not in this case, they could immediately put things back the way they are because the current setup doesn't require any special admin. I'm hoping Labour repeal most of the last few years of insanity but other than the anti-strike laws they've not been that vocal about commitments to repeal Tory authoritarianism. I hope they reinstate the right to peaceful protest but I haven't seen them make any commitments to do so?

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    RazielMortemRazielMortem Registered User regular
    I am concerned that No Drama Just Starmer isn't extremely vocal on how he intends to reverse all this shit. Stop trying to woo Tory voters Starmer, it's never going to happen.
    It's more likely he's been told that confrontationalism doesn't play well with the swing voters. Stop listening to these advisors Starmer! I want a firebrand that tells me he's passionate about X. Not a mild mannered accountant.

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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    I am concerned that No Drama Just Starmer isn't extremely vocal on how he intends to reverse all this shit. Stop trying to woo Tory voters Starmer, it's never going to happen.
    It's more likely he's been told that confrontationalism doesn't play well with the swing voters. Stop listening to these advisors Starmer! I want a firebrand that tells me he's passionate about X. Not a mild mannered accountant.

    As much as there's probably truth to this, how the fuck did we end up in a place where committing to protect peaceful protest is a controversial stance?

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    Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    Speaking of protest laws, the government was defeated on a number of key issues yesterday, in the house of lords:



    But the majority of the legislation could still go through, it's all still very much up in the air.

    Zilla360 on
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    Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    I am concerned that No Drama Just Starmer isn't extremely vocal on how he intends to reverse all this shit. Stop trying to woo Tory voters Starmer, it's never going to happen.

    Corbyn saying that he was gonna fix things is the main reason the tories have a latge majority. Starmer is playing the long game, doing anything else will allow the media the demonise him and distract from the issues the tories are facing. So far it is working.

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