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Pathfinder 2E: "The Time of the O.R.C. has come."

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    CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    Luke Skywalker from Star Wars: A New Hope.
    Prometheus, the titan.
    Spock
    Samwise Gamgee
    Terra Branford

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    edited January 2023
    A lot of the X-men or similar superheros work well here, especially if you focus lesso n their supernatural powerset and more on who they are as a perosn and skills stemming from that. Cyclops for instance - His eyebeams are something you can replicate in a bunch of ways, but can you get his tactical acumen while also being somewhat disabled (Due to being blind without his special ruby quartz visor) on paper?

    Or Conan. The Man With No Name (Clint Eastwood) would be another.

    Being able to stat up your classic heist crew might be another good one - The Mastermind, The Face, the Muscle, The Second-Story guy, The Fixer are all pretty classic archtypes

    Of course, you've got mythology too - Heracles, Circe the Witch of Aiaia, Odyssyus, Jason, Orpheus! The Knights of the Round Table (seriously some of these guys have wacky powers and it's great. The one who's power is just SUPER LONG BEARD is one of my favourites) - Bedivere, Arthur, Lancelot, Gaiwan, Merlin, Nimune. All of these are great because they let you see how the system holds up to similar-but-distinct characters

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Okay, I am probably half way finished with Drizzt Do'Urden, likely finish him tomorrow.

    First note: it's very funny to me that Pathfinder 2E doesn't have Drow or Dark Elves as an ancestral option.

    Second note: building any character higher than 2nd level is basically a slow process of organically designing the character (which is refreshing!).

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    IanatorIanator Gaze upon my works, ye mighty and facepalm.Registered User regular
    Being able to stat up your classic heist crew might be another good one - The Mastermind, The Face, the Muscle, The Second-Story guy, The Fixer are all pretty classic archtypes

    What is a second-story guy?

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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Ianator wrote: »
    Being able to stat up your classic heist crew might be another good one - The Mastermind, The Face, the Muscle, The Second-Story guy, The Fixer are all pretty classic archtypes

    What is a second-story guy?

    Not much, guy, what's a second-story with you?
    It's a house breaker that enters through the second story - so an agile sneaky person in general

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    So one of the ways (pretty much the dominant way) that I get to know a TTRPG system is by character creation.

    I'm still learning the rules for Pathfinder 2E, so to facilitate that learning experience I'll ask the thread: what's a pop culture character you imagine would be relatively low-level that I should make using PF2E?

    Fox Mulder.

    Jim Holden.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Ianator wrote: »
    Being able to stat up your classic heist crew might be another good one - The Mastermind, The Face, the Muscle, The Second-Story guy, The Fixer are all pretty classic archtypes

    What is a second-story guy?

    Greaseman is the other slang for them i think - They're your agile, climbs like they were a monkey, etc type. The sort you deploy to actually break into a joint, usually through places a human *shouldnt* be able to get in throguh. Probably the closest to the classic thief rogue. (The Thief from DnD5E is quite literally them in most meaningful ways). The one who gets in and pops the door so everyone else can get in to loot the joint

    Mastermind's your planner, Face is your social expert, Muscle's obvious, and Fixer is your tinker/builder/"Yeah, i know where we can get 5kgs of stuffed chickens at this time of night, and without drawing any heat" type.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    edited January 2023
    Zonugal wrote: »
    So one of the ways (pretty much the dominant way) that I get to know a TTRPG system is by character creation.

    I'm still learning the rules for Pathfinder 2E, so to facilitate that learning experience I'll ask the thread: what's a pop culture character you imagine would be relatively low-level that I should make using PF2E?

    Ross Geller

    Rhesus Positive on
    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    @Zonugal
    I believe it would be pertinent if you created a Pathfinder version of beloved character Derrek ‘Del Boy’ Trotter.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63rcdLeXiU8

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    WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    A low-level character? Ed, Edd, and Eddy

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    edited January 2023
    Alright, here is everyone's favorite Drow Ranger:

    Drizzt-Do-Urden.png

    Designer Note: If I was utilizing the free archetype variant for him, I would combo him with Barbarian (as to represent his "hunter mode")

    Zonugal on
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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Alright, here is everyone's favorite Drow Ranger:

    Drizzt-Do-Urden.png

    Designer Note: If I was utilizing the free archetype variant for him, I would combo him with Barbarian (as to represent his "hunter mode")

    If I recall, Drizz't's official 3E makeup was Fighter 10, Barbarian 1, Ranger 5, because he was a master swordsman before he stepped foot out of Menzoberranzan, and only later found Milikki. The Barbarian level was for the Hunter Mode.

    Of course the original character was all ranger using 1e stats and only dual weilded because all drow were ambidextrous in OG Unearthed Arcana (he was also over 200 years old in The Crystal Shard, which got retconned right quick).

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    joshgotrojoshgotro Deviled Egg The Land of REAL CHILIRegistered User regular
    I love the statblock export option on pathbuilder2e.

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    If I recall, Drizz't's official 3E makeup was Fighter 10, Barbarian 1, Ranger 5, because he was a master swordsman before he stepped foot out of Menzoberranzan, and only later found Milikki. The Barbarian level was for the Hunter Mode.

    I am imagining this as a Drizz't on the way to becoming that legendary character.

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod
    that feels like a good adaptation

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    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Emily Axford over on NADDPOD is sellin' the shit out of PF2e, worth a listen if you're interested.

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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    OMG there's a pathfinder 2e thread, oh thank christ.

    Re: Drow in PF2E, lore-wise Drow are just as sticky and icky as they are in D&D in regards to racism and such, so they've kinda been avoided thus far, though there are monster stat blocks for them. There's nothing stopping you from making a Cavern Elf, like you did.

    There's also stuff in Pathfinder lore about how elves can just become drow by doing something extremely shitty and corrupting themselves.

    I imagine Paizo would like to just push drow off the face of the world and do something else.

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    CorlisCorlis Registered User regular
    edited January 2023
    Thawmus wrote: »
    OMG there's a pathfinder 2e thread, oh thank christ.

    Re: Drow in PF2E, lore-wise Drow are just as sticky and icky as they are in D&D in regards to racism and such, so they've kinda been avoided thus far, though there are monster stat blocks for them. There's nothing stopping you from making a Cavern Elf, like you did.

    There's also stuff in Pathfinder lore about how elves can just become drow by doing something extremely shitty and corrupting themselves.

    I imagine Paizo would like to just push drow off the face of the world and do something else.
    Hmm, I'm not sure Paizo is really avoiding them with 2e. The Extinction Curse has a visit to an underdark city of drow in its fifth book. All the drow there are evil, though the PCs can travel around their city somewhat freely. The drow there are undead, and in Paizo's lore the undead are almost always evil; however, IIRC the story doesn't really claim that undeath made them evil, but rather that they were evil even before they became undead.

    In the other hand, The Abomination Vaults adventure includes a drow outpost where they don't worship demon lords and are all chaotic neutral. They are pretty chill and the PCs are expected to ally with them to help progress the plot.

    Corlis on
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    I'll be fine, just give me a minute, a man's got a limit, I can't get a life if my heart's not in it.
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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Corlis wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    OMG there's a pathfinder 2e thread, oh thank christ.

    Re: Drow in PF2E, lore-wise Drow are just as sticky and icky as they are in D&D in regards to racism and such, so they've kinda been avoided thus far, though there are monster stat blocks for them. There's nothing stopping you from making a Cavern Elf, like you did.

    There's also stuff in Pathfinder lore about how elves can just become drow by doing something extremely shitty and corrupting themselves.

    I imagine Paizo would like to just push drow off the face of the world and do something else.
    Hmm, I'm not sure Paizo is really avoiding them with 2e. The Extinction Curse has a visit to an underdark city of drow in its fifth book. All the drow there are evil, though the PCs can travel around their city somewhat freely. The drow there are undead, and in Paizo's lore the undead are almost always evil; however, IIRC the story doesn't really claim that undeath made them evil, but rather that they were evil even before they became undead.

    In the other hand, The Abomination Vaults adventure includes a drow outpost where they don't worship demon lords and are all chaotic neutral. They are pretty chill and the PCs are expected to ally with them to help progress the plot.

    Hmm, we just got to the bottom of Abomination Vaults and we ran into no such outpost, makes me think we missed a room somewhere...

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    joshgotrojoshgotro Deviled Egg The Land of REAL CHILIRegistered User regular
    As a player about to start Abomination Vaults, I'm going to make sure we get to that outpost.

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    In Starfinder (which is the same universe as PF but an unknown number of thousands of years into the future), drow have become ruthless corporate arms merchants. They keep orcs and half-orcs as generationally indentured servants ("prisoners with jobs," effectively, but many can rise to positions of some importance), but are fairly well-known and trusted, as far as corporate marauders go.

    Meanwhile the "normal" elves are highly isolationist weirdos who wear masks and avoid modern society, for the most part. They didn't take The Gap well, considering their long lives and memories.

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    CorlisCorlis Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    OMG there's a pathfinder 2e thread, oh thank christ.

    Re: Drow in PF2E, lore-wise Drow are just as sticky and icky as they are in D&D in regards to racism and such, so they've kinda been avoided thus far, though there are monster stat blocks for them. There's nothing stopping you from making a Cavern Elf, like you did.

    There's also stuff in Pathfinder lore about how elves can just become drow by doing something extremely shitty and corrupting themselves.

    I imagine Paizo would like to just push drow off the face of the world and do something else.
    Hmm, I'm not sure Paizo is really avoiding them with 2e. The Extinction Curse has a visit to an underdark city of drow in its fifth book. All the drow there are evil, though the PCs can travel around their city somewhat freely. The drow there are undead, and in Paizo's lore the undead are almost always evil; however, IIRC the story doesn't really claim that undeath made them evil, but rather that they were evil even before they became undead.

    In the other hand, The Abomination Vaults adventure includes a drow outpost where they don't worship demon lords and are all chaotic neutral. They are pretty chill and the PCs are expected to ally with them to help progress the plot.
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Corlis wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    OMG there's a pathfinder 2e thread, oh thank christ.

    Re: Drow in PF2E, lore-wise Drow are just as sticky and icky as they are in D&D in regards to racism and such, so they've kinda been avoided thus far, though there are monster stat blocks for them. There's nothing stopping you from making a Cavern Elf, like you did.

    There's also stuff in Pathfinder lore about how elves can just become drow by doing something extremely shitty and corrupting themselves.

    I imagine Paizo would like to just push drow off the face of the world and do something else.
    Hmm, I'm not sure Paizo is really avoiding them with 2e. The Extinction Curse has a visit to an underdark city of drow in its fifth book. All the drow there are evil, though the PCs can travel around their city somewhat freely. The drow there are undead, and in Paizo's lore the undead are almost always evil; however, IIRC the story doesn't really claim that undeath made them evil, but rather that they were evil even before they became undead.

    In the other hand, The Abomination Vaults adventure includes a drow outpost where they don't worship demon lords and are all chaotic neutral. They are pretty chill and the PCs are expected to ally with them to help progress the plot.

    Hmm, we just got to the bottom of Abomination Vaults and we ran into no such outpost, makes me think we missed a room somewhere...
    Oops, it occurs to me now that I really should have put that in spoilers, sorry! Anyhow...
    They are supposed to appear in the south east quarter of the second to last floor, the same floor that has the Calignis and the Urdefhan. I think that there might be multiple ways into that floor, however, so it's probably possible to bypass them.

    But I don't mind, as long as there's a bed beneath the stars that shine,
    I'll be fine, just give me a minute, a man's got a limit, I can't get a life if my heart's not in it.
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    NipsNips He/Him Luxuriating in existential crisis.Registered User regular
    I'm sorry, but I'm just so flabbergasted I have to put this out here:

    Paizo had every chance to create their fantasy world from the ground up, resetting norms and ways, and for some reason the typical/baseline drow/dark elves/cavern elves/whatever the fuck you call them are still evil assholes?

    The company that turned baseline goblins into this?
    The convoluted histories other people cling to don’t interest goblins. These small folk live in the moment, and they prefer tall tales over factual records. The wars of a few decades ago might as well be from the ancient past. Misunderstood by other people, goblins are happy how they are. Goblin virtues are about being present, creative, and honest. They strive to lead fulfilled lives, rather than worrying about how their journeys will end. To tell stories, not nitpick the facts. To be small, but dream big.

    What the fuck? Am I missing something? I was under the impression most of Paizo's Fantasy Race Construction was more nuanced than the crap we got from WotC or inherited from TSR.

    JXUBxMxP0QndjQUEnTwTxOkfKmx8kWNvuc-FUtbSz_23_DAhGKe7W9spFKLXAtkpTBqM8Dt6kQrv-rS69Hi3FheL3fays2xTeVUvWR7g5UyLHnFA0frGk1BC12GYdOSRn9lbaJB-uH0htiLPJMrc9cSRsIgk5Dx7jg9K8rJVfG43lkeAWxTgcolNscW9KO2UZjKT8GMbYAFgFvu2TaMoLH8LBA5p2pm6VNYRsQK3QGjCsze1TOv2yIbCazmDwCHmjiQxNDf6LHP35msyiXo3CxuWs9Y8DQvJjvj10kWaspRNlWHKjS5w9Y0KLuIkhQKOxgaDziG290v4zBmTi-i7OfDz-foqIqKzC9wTbn9i_uU87GRitmrNAJdzRRsaTW5VQu_XX_5gCN8XCoNyu5RWWVGTsjJuyezz1_NpFa903Uj2TnFqnL1wJ-RZiFAAd2Bdut-G1pdQtdQihsq2dx_BjtmtGC3KZRyylO1t2c12dhfb0rStq4v8pg46ciOcdtT_1qm85IgUmGd7AmgLxCFPb0xnxWZvr26G-oXSqrQdjKA1zNIInSowiHcbUO2O8S5LRJVR6vQiEg0fbGXw4vqJYEn917tnzHMh8r0xom8BLKMvoFDelk6wbEeNq8w8Eyu2ouGjEMIvvJcb2az2AKQ1uE_7gdatfKG2QdvfdSBRSc35MQ=w498-h80-no
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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Nips wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but I'm just so flabbergasted I have to put this out here:

    Paizo had every chance to create their fantasy world from the ground up, resetting norms and ways, and for some reason the typical/baseline drow/dark elves/cavern elves/whatever the fuck you call them are still evil assholes?

    The company that turned baseline goblins into this?
    The convoluted histories other people cling to don’t interest goblins. These small folk live in the moment, and they prefer tall tales over factual records. The wars of a few decades ago might as well be from the ancient past. Misunderstood by other people, goblins are happy how they are. Goblin virtues are about being present, creative, and honest. They strive to lead fulfilled lives, rather than worrying about how their journeys will end. To tell stories, not nitpick the facts. To be small, but dream big.

    What the fuck? Am I missing something? I was under the impression most of Paizo's Fantasy Race Construction was more nuanced than the crap we got from WotC or inherited from TSR.

    Well, there's old Paizo and there's the newer more recent Paizo.

    Old Paizo, the company that made PF1E, didn't really give a shit and did a lot of fucked up things in their campaigns and lore and setting. Do not get me started on Kingmaker. Do not!

    Newer more recent Paizo, is the company that said they need to take a long hard look at this racist shit, that needs to let their workers unionize, that needs to address sexual harassment in the workplace, etc. etc.

    This is kinda why I said it remains to be seen what they'll do about drow, because while they've released some stuff for PF2E, I'm very, very curious if they print a book that addresses Drow head-on and what that looks like.

    Like, PF2E still has statistical racial bonuses, and yes you can kinda choose what they are but that's still kinda yucky. Goblins lose Wisdom, Dwarves lose Charisma, that sort of bullshit is still going on.

    But given all of the other changes with the company and the product over the years, I'm very optimistic that they'll progress past this shit in the near future.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    NipsNips He/Him Luxuriating in existential crisis.Registered User regular
    Okay, good. I figured some of this (e.g. goblins) was maybe a case of Real Life Sensibilities Moving Forward With Time, but I'm glad to hear it confirmed on a broader scale.

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    LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    The Drow in Pathfinder are evil because they were left behind during a cataclysmic event that freed an evil god, and that evil god corrupted them.

    So they’re not like, inherently evil or even culturally evil. They’re more or less victims who got screwed by fate and warped into villains.

    Odds are as the narrative of the setting continues to advance through adventure paths and modules, we will continue to see Drow who have managed to avoid or escape that fate and eventually see them as a playable option. Much like with Goblins.

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    I have spent the better part of today thinking about how to approach any force-user from Star Wars in this system, as it largely does not want to play nice with creating a martial psychic.

    I'm pouring more time into that because I'm currently growing my first Pathfinder 2E campaign setting and want to heavily utilize the psychic class within it.

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    MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    I have spent the better part of today thinking about how to approach any force-user from Star Wars in this system, as it largely does not want to play nice with creating a martial psychic.

    Magus hits most of what you'd need, I think, if you just want to flavor or it as psychic. Magus with Psychic Archetype will get the rest of the way.

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    CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    Part of the reason I suggested A New Hope Luke is it might allow for less supernatural powers. It might also be easier to build something if you stick to the original trilogy for what the force powers might encompass.

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    edited January 2023
    Okay, so this is my general idea of how to approach force-users when adapting Star Wars folks into Pathfinder.

    Luke-Skywalker.png

    Zonugal on
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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod
    My biggest peeve about pf2e character building is they don't have enough interesting ancestry feats for humans

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    AustinP0027AustinP0027 Registered User regular
    Coming over from 5e (group converting to this instead of a random new system thank god), I am finally feeling like I can build an actual character without feeing like some of the cool stuff hurts the character.

    I would always look up optimization guides and when doing that for p2e, there still seem like a number of feats that can be whatever.

    Which is how my android ends up with 8 bonus languages because why wouldn't an android have multiple languages programmed in!

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Coming over from 5e (group converting to this instead of a random new system thank god), I am finally feeling like I can build an actual character without feeing like some of the cool stuff hurts the character.

    I would always look up optimization guides and when doing that for p2e, there still seem like a number of feats that can be whatever.

    Which is how my android ends up with 8 bonus languages because why wouldn't an android have multiple languages programmed in!

    They are simply an expert in Human-Cyborg Relations!

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    IanatorIanator Gaze upon my works, ye mighty and facepalm.Registered User regular
    My Tuesday group just wrapped up the first Starfinder adventure path a couple of weeks ago. It really did feel at some points like our characters could grow organically, especially with the "Skill points into Culture = new languages".

    Spoilers for the latter half of Dead Suns:
    The Ruined Clouds, fourth book in the path, has you departing the Pact Worlds and rediscovering the Kish civilization. Several in the party, including me, put a point into Culture and learned the Kishli language while we were there.

    Before departing for the final "dungeons" on the world we all got tattoos. I think only our Solarian got something "functional" but I had them turn my Android's right arm into a veritable Rosetta Stone of common, Kish and machine language.

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Ianator wrote: »
    My Tuesday group just wrapped up the first Starfinder adventure path a couple of weeks ago. It really did feel at some points like our characters could grow organically, especially with the "Skill points into Culture = new languages".

    Spoilers for the latter half of Dead Suns:
    The Ruined Clouds, fourth book in the path, has you departing the Pact Worlds and rediscovering the Kish civilization. Several in the party, including me, put a point into Culture and learned the Kishli language while we were there.

    Before departing for the final "dungeons" on the world we all got tattoos. I think only our Solarian got something "functional" but I had them turn my Android's right arm into a veritable Rosetta Stone of common, Kish and machine language.

    Book 4 is pretty cool. How did you do with the end boss? As I recall, the initial printings had a pretty heinous typo in the stat line that made him very difficult for the unwary.

    My character for Dead Suns was a Witchwyrd envoy named Doctor Zorkfeld that swung all of my allies' attack rolls by 4-5 against a target each round. Made some difficult fights fairly trivial with my team of murderhobos.

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    IanatorIanator Gaze upon my works, ye mighty and facepalm.Registered User regular
    Ianator wrote: »
    My Tuesday group just wrapped up the first Starfinder adventure path a couple of weeks ago. It really did feel at some points like our characters could grow organically, especially with the "Skill points into Culture = new languages".

    Spoilers for the latter half of Dead Suns:
    The Ruined Clouds, fourth book in the path, has you departing the Pact Worlds and rediscovering the Kish civilization. Several in the party, including me, put a point into Culture and learned the Kishli language while we were there.

    Before departing for the final "dungeons" on the world we all got tattoos. I think only our Solarian got something "functional" but I had them turn my Android's right arm into a veritable Rosetta Stone of common, Kish and machine language.

    Book 4 is pretty cool. How did you do with the end boss? As I recall, the initial printings had a pretty heinous typo in the stat line that made him very difficult for the unwary.

    My character for Dead Suns was a Witchwyrd envoy named Doctor Zorkfeld that swung all of my allies' attack rolls by 4-5 against a target each round. Made some difficult fights fairly trivial with my team of murderhobos.

    Same way we dealt with most things, I think? Liberal application of Solarian and Mercenary with a side of Mechanic and an Envoy garnish.

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    SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Can anyone comment on the readability of the pocket editions? I don't need reading glasses yet for most things, but I am getting older.

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    IanatorIanator Gaze upon my works, ye mighty and facepalm.Registered User regular
    Can anyone comment on the readability of the pocket editions? I don't need reading glasses yet for most things, but I am getting older.

    I have the paperback Starfinder Core Rulebook and find it plenty readable just short of full arm's length. The font is clear and very readable despite its size.

    That said, my eyes are not your eyes. You may get the clearest results from finding a local retailer and having a look for yourself.

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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Can anyone comment on the readability of the pocket editions? I don't need reading glasses yet for most things, but I am getting older.

    I think the pocket editons are great and I swear by them. After the OGL stuff started a young lady was looking at the Starfinder rack at the FLGS because her group wanted to get out of D&D. I talked Starfinder up and she left with the pocket editions of Core, Armory (a must have), and Alien Archive, as well as the first book of Fly Free or Die.

    Felt pretty good about that.

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Can anyone comment on the readability of the pocket editions? I don't need reading glasses yet for most things, but I am getting older.

    They are pretty easy to read (but I have reading glasses), but more so as a result of their size I have fully adopted purchasing them.

    If I am given the choice between the hardback & the pocket edition, I am always choosing the pocket edition nowadays.

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