Options

[D&D/d20 Discussion] WotC Presents: Milque & Toast

2456767

Posts

  • Options
    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Those gamma world boxes were so good. The mutated chickens that took over the Gamma World equivalent of an intelligent chicken battery farm was so good.

    There was even a psychic squid in a tank for no reason!

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • Options
    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    Kobold Press has put out a statement about what they plan to achieve with their "new" game, currently known as Project Black Flag. To put it simply, it's apparently supposed to be a 5.5 not owned by WotC that's closer to original 5E than One D&D is and that has replacements for things not in the SRD.
    One of our wise team members said something that I think about almost daily, “This game has meant too much to us for too long to let it remain owned by just one company.”

    And they are right. I love D&D. I’ve played every edition, bought hundreds of books, and my fondest memories are built on this game. I would go so far as to say if not for D&D, I don’t know if I would be here today.

    I am not ready to give it up or let its future be controlled by a single company. We know many of you feel the same way.

    That’s why we are keeping all the good of 5E alive. And to make it better. That’s why we are raising the flag to declare that we will be here to keep the candle burning, no matter what shareholders plan in some distant tower.
    ---
    I don’t feel great about what I have seen and speculated about One D&D thus far. I seriously doubt that One D&D can fulfill the promise of true backward compatibility.
    ---
    This project is taking on the issues we can fix without invalidating the thousands of dollars we’ve all spent on some really killer 5E products.
    ---
    We’ve heard people say, “But why? The SRD is in Creative Commons now!” We invite you to re-look at the SRD and note just how much beloved 5E stuff is NOT in it.

    Do you want to just play a Champion Fighter until the end of time? Neither do we.

    Here’s a list of a few things other Kobold designers and I are creating as replacements for the great core rulebooks bits that we all wish were in the SRD:

    ● Alternatives for the Player’s Handbook subclasses missing from the SRD
    ● Reimaging the feats missing from the SRD as talents (spoiler alert: it’s all of them, except Grappler)
    ● Lore text for every monster in the SRD (only stat blocks are in the SRD)

  • Options
    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Curious, what's One D&D changing that's not backwards compatible? I haven't read through a bunch of it, but most of it just seems like what would essentially be "official" house rule variations and whatnot. Nothing earth-shattering.

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • Options
    NipsNips He/Him Luxuriating in existential crisis.Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Curious, what's One D&D changing that's not backwards compatible? I haven't read through a bunch of it, but most of it just seems like what would essentially be "official" house rule variations and whatnot. Nothing earth-shattering.

    I think the problem is that the answer is "No one really knows", at least outside what we can glean of the initial playtest packets WotC has issued. Instead, it comes down to a matter of trust as to whether you believe One D&D will be truly backwards compatible with what's come before. And given where we all stand with WotC and Hasbro, trust is in wildly short supply.

    JXUBxMxP0QndjQUEnTwTxOkfKmx8kWNvuc-FUtbSz_23_DAhGKe7W9spFKLXAtkpTBqM8Dt6kQrv-rS69Hi3FheL3fays2xTeVUvWR7g5UyLHnFA0frGk1BC12GYdOSRn9lbaJB-uH0htiLPJMrc9cSRsIgk5Dx7jg9K8rJVfG43lkeAWxTgcolNscW9KO2UZjKT8GMbYAFgFvu2TaMoLH8LBA5p2pm6VNYRsQK3QGjCsze1TOv2yIbCazmDwCHmjiQxNDf6LHP35msyiXo3CxuWs9Y8DQvJjvj10kWaspRNlWHKjS5w9Y0KLuIkhQKOxgaDziG290v4zBmTi-i7OfDz-foqIqKzC9wTbn9i_uU87GRitmrNAJdzRRsaTW5VQu_XX_5gCN8XCoNyu5RWWVGTsjJuyezz1_NpFa903Uj2TnFqnL1wJ-RZiFAAd2Bdut-G1pdQtdQihsq2dx_BjtmtGC3KZRyylO1t2c12dhfb0rStq4v8pg46ciOcdtT_1qm85IgUmGd7AmgLxCFPb0xnxWZvr26G-oXSqrQdjKA1zNIInSowiHcbUO2O8S5LRJVR6vQiEg0fbGXw4vqJYEn917tnzHMh8r0xom8BLKMvoFDelk6wbEeNq8w8Eyu2ouGjEMIvvJcb2az2AKQ1uE_7gdatfKG2QdvfdSBRSc35MQ=w498-h80-no
  • Options
    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Nips wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Curious, what's One D&D changing that's not backwards compatible? I haven't read through a bunch of it, but most of it just seems like what would essentially be "official" house rule variations and whatnot. Nothing earth-shattering.

    I think the problem is that the answer is "No one really knows", at least outside what we can glean of the initial playtest packets WotC has issued. Instead, it comes down to a matter of trust as to whether you believe One D&D will be truly backwards compatible with what's come before. And given where we all stand with WotC and Hasbro, trust is in wildly short supply.

    I guess. Just seems like they would want it to be backwards compatible, and all the playtest material is, so it's a kind of weird assumption to make. But hey, I'm not gonna complain about more material, so if the distrust causes Project Black Flag to get some cool stuff going then go for it :lol:

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • Options
    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    Nothing wrong with Pathfindering 5e.

    If nothing else, Black Flag will stand as an inflection point against WotC trying to get funny with their editions again. Keeping them honest about backward compatibility, or serving as an off-ramp for players if Wizards don't keep the faith.

  • Options
    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    IIRC so far that haven't really done anything more than what Tasha's did to the PH1 Ranger. They're changing the structural groupings of some classes, I think they're trying to add some simplicity to spellcasting, at least logically.

    I believe there was something about everyone getting a subclass a bit faster, but that's all I've soon.

    Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
  • Options
    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Nips wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Curious, what's One D&D changing that's not backwards compatible? I haven't read through a bunch of it, but most of it just seems like what would essentially be "official" house rule variations and whatnot. Nothing earth-shattering.

    I think the problem is that the answer is "No one really knows", at least outside what we can glean of the initial playtest packets WotC has issued. Instead, it comes down to a matter of trust as to whether you believe One D&D will be truly backwards compatible with what's come before. And given where we all stand with WotC and Hasbro, trust is in wildly short supply.

    I don’t see why it wouldn’t be given what we’ve seen. There would have to be some pretty absurd power creep or regression in order to not make current 5e adventures work.

    I suspect monsters are going to get a bit more interesting/powerful in general but not enough to shake things up.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • Options
    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    It sounds at least like the "goal" for the new edition is for you to be able to use anything from 5th that you'd rather use, but if there are new rules, they obviously recommend using the newer rules where you can.

    Which sounds like they're trying to do something between a 3.5 move and a heavy 4e-style errata. And styling it as a series of UA playtest kind of things we've already seen with stuff like Tasha's.

    Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
  • Options
    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    Do you want to just play a Champion Fighter until the end of time? Neither do we.
    Dang, just going right for the jugular.

  • Options
    DenadaDenada Registered User regular
    Personally I'd love to see Wizards respond to ORC and Black Flag with an actual 6E that is dramatically different. They can tell everyone "hey if you want to be stuck in the same edition forever, go ahead. If you want the next evolution of D&D, stick with us."

    I'm not exactly rooting for WotC, but I don't really like 5E so I'll take any opportunity to hope for something new.

  • Options
    Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    Still not clear why you can’t use any old thing, official or third party, at your table, but more stuff is good for folks. Hope they make some bucks and people like it. But… I can get any roleplaying pdf for free by searching it, the paying for it part is a courtesy to decent creators (Edit: Do buy stuff from creators! I just mean you can find that Barbarian sub-class you’re after online or in the book you already own). I don’t know why you’d need special access to the core 5E sub-classes a dozen years in.

    Gotta agree with @Denada
    If 6E is errata for 5E, that too doesn’t need to be bought. “An amount of house rules” is standard operating procedure for D&D as it is.

    Endless_Serpents on
  • Options
    gavindelgavindel The reason all your software is brokenRegistered User regular
    My least favorite part of edition shifts is how suddenly it becomes totally fine to criticize the old edition's flaws. See also "i am so glad they finally fixed X!"

    This after that person spent 5 years defending X as the holy sanctum of TRUE DnD which must be treated as infallible. I do not understand the mindset in which The Product As Written becomes holy text yet see it constantly.

    In other words, RAW can kiss a goose.

    Book - Royal road - Free! Seraphim === TTRPG - Wuxia - Free! Seln Alora
  • Options
    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    I mean it looks different enough to justify buying the books it’s just that at the end of the day your pluses will probably look really similar at the end of the creation process.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • Options
    gavindelgavindel The reason all your software is brokenRegistered User regular
    Yeah, we all know what's up. they have to put everything in a jar and shake it mildly, aiming for that sweet spot of "just different enough to buy" and "similar enough to reassure". No different then rebooting a movie franchise.

    Book - Royal road - Free! Seraphim === TTRPG - Wuxia - Free! Seln Alora
  • Options
    Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    Kinda like if you saw something called “Milk flavoured Milk”, there’s nothing wrong with making a 5.1 game, it just feels wrong to me. Do you dare drink the milk flavoured milk? Or would you grab the regular store brand, or try a locally sourced independent product instead? It hits that “dubiousness trigger” in my brain reserved for poisonous mushrooms and camouflaged predators, I guess. :smile:



    So anyways, for fun I’m making another old school style game. In this one I thought it’d be neat to connect skill points to combat abilities directly. For every +1 in a skill you get a tiny feat. It’ll go something like…

    klmzme3x8dd9.jpeg

    It’s simple, but I think being acrobatic in the narrative portion of the game and then having that continue in the turn-based tactical boardgame half would be fun. You see, even if you make skill checks bonus actions, it’s rarely the optimal option for the boardgame, as you can still fail the check.

    With this, you’re a +3 flippy guy swinging from ropes and running across roofs in narrative play, which also gives you Hip Flick, Light Footed and Acrobat. So once combat starts and everyone else is shuffling pieces around, you get to seamlessly move across a bunch of jutting rocks, a spiked floor and leap into the air with the expectation you’ll land across the chasm next turn and keep going.

    It’ll also make folks want to de-specialise. The allure of certain mini-feats might net you an Athletic 2, Intimidation 1 Magic User, or an Acrobatics 3 Fighting Man, or a Thief with 1 in several skills.

    Oh also there’s no stats, just skills. Gonna call it Hounskull.

  • Options
    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    gavindel wrote: »
    Yeah, we all know what's up. they have to put everything in a jar and shake it mildly, aiming for that sweet spot of "just different enough to buy" and "similar enough to reassure". No different then rebooting a movie franchise.

    I think there are some clear goals in refining the play experience and bringing the system more in line with WotCs inclusivity goals.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • Options
    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    You cast Fireball as a 3rd-level spell centered on yourself.

    The party Wild Magic Sorcerer got this result twice in one session in consecutive combats. My Fighter was in the AoE for both!

  • Options
    rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    The 3.5 SRD was free and yet Pathfinder 1E still existed and succeeded greatly. If there's a large population that wants to keep 5E going years after WotC abandons it, then Kobold Press would similarly be very well positioned.

    Right now "Kyle" their offical PR guy has been saying that One D&D is also going to have a CC SRD much like 5E though. And if 1 ends up being not that different from 5E, KP might find interest in their black flag limited, as people just adapt whatever to the latest official base.

  • Options
    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    Another Kyle Brink interview, this time with the YouTube channel Nerd Immersion. Highlights:
    • More content, possibly including the Artificer class, may be added to the SRD and released into Creative Commons.
    • Kyle again promises that One D&D will not have a different OGL and that One D&D content will be added to the SRD in Creative Commons. At this point WotC would really be shooting themselves in the foot if they went back on this after promising it multiple times in multiple interviews held with the intention of trying to earn back turst.
    • Future One D&D playtest packets will likely be more substantial to make up for lost time.
    • Kyle asks the interviewer what he would like WotC to do in the future. The reply he gets includes things such as transparency as to how survey result are interpreted, continued conversations with members of the community to get feedback, and larger books with more substantial content.

    Hexmage-PA on
  • Options
    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Denada wrote: »
    Personally I'd love to see Wizards respond to ORC and Black Flag with an actual 6E that is dramatically different. They can tell everyone "hey if you want to be stuck in the same edition forever, go ahead. If you want the next evolution of D&D, stick with us."

    I'm not exactly rooting for WotC, but I don't really like 5E so I'll take any opportunity to hope for something new.

    That would be a very bold move considering the last interview summary posted in the thread.

    Almost be reverse 4E, where 4E made everyone leave as it was different and incompatible, while 6E is different because everyone already left so why bother catering to them?

    But at this point Wizards have firmly painted themselves into a corner they cannot get out of.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • Options
    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Yea I don't really see how D&D ever innovates again. It's history is an anchor around it's neck.

    Steam ID: Webguy20
    Origin ID: Discgolfer27
    Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
  • Options
    Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    I didn’t mean to put lore into Hounskull since it’s only gonna be a dozen pages long, but well, old habits:
    Inheritance
    Most often it is impossible for the layman to determine the lineage of a person by merely looking, and yet the claim to an inheritance is of the utmost importance to nobility—both to claim the right of their position and to shun those beneath them. Meanwhile, to the common folk, their inheritance is their upbringing and the subtle ways of living imparted to them by their kin, blood or not. It is an open secret that almost everyone alive today has no notable, definable inheritance for everyone is the descendant of many.

    Faerie
    Under the law of House Tulloch only those noble families chosen by the king may claim to be of faerie descent. Often those with notable fae features hide them beneath shawls to go about their business undisturbed.

    Coblynish
    Stunted, beady eyed, greedy little thieves—that is the prevailing tale concerning the Coblynish. It is usual to consider anyone with an unorthodox vocation to be thus.

    Orcneas
    Thoughtless brutes and masters of warfare, filthy beasts with disciplined lines. Long ago they marched from the East and were shattered against the might of House Tulloch.

    Deofol
    Horned creepers, the product of witches cavorting with the unspeakable horrors of the woods. The Deofol, or witching folk, were once seen as blessings from the Green One.

    Claeg
    The rabble, the rest, of no interest. The Claeg were thought to be the first people of the world prior to House Tulloch’s ascension; now such matters are ill spoken of.

    So basically you can play any elf, goblins/gnomes/dwarfs, orcs/ogres/trolls, demons/fauns/satyrs, and humans/hobbits I guess, with the understanding you’re all 1/8th everything else.

    The more I think about it, the more it’s a reimagining of classic dungeon crawlers by way of asking, “Is what’s been said about X actually true, or something a king says is true?”

    Still mostly a game of killing monsters and stealing their shit though.

    Endless_Serpents on
  • Options
    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    Given part of the reason for things like Pathfinder et al was the way they restricted use of the 4e system it's unlikely, but man I really wish 4e could get the same sort of updates and tweaks while retaining much of the basic core mechanics, 4e was hands down my favorite version of D&D but because of how wizards got fucky with their license for it it feels like it will be stuck in a limbo forever with the flaws and gaps in the system never fixed on a larger scale.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • Options
    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited February 2023
    An interesting piece of Dungeons and Dragons history:

    fvgg0i5h4crq.jpg


    Somebody translated the old original Record of Lodoss War d&d campaign report articles from the 1986-87 Japanese magazine it was published in, Compatiq, written to get people interested in the recently officially localized D&D tabletop game. This campaign continued on to become a very popular long running thing and became a big cultural touchstone influence on japanese D&D-style high fantasy stuff, in anime and games and all sorts of shit, though it was not the only thing creating that wave of interest in high fantasy swords and magic stuff. Dragon Quest had been released in '86 inspired by computer games like Ultima, and Final Fantasy released in '87, heavily cribbing from both Dragon Quest and D&D. There was a broad surge of interest in tabletop fantasy games and media inspired by them at this time.

    It's viewable on archive.org: https://archive.org/details/record-of-lodoss-war-comptiq-magazine-english-translation

    BahamutZERO on
    BahamutZERO.gif
  • Options
    Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    Y’all.

    f3zg4w6oz249.png

    That’s my front cover I reckon.

  • Options
    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    Given part of the reason for things like Pathfinder et al was the way they restricted use of the 4e system it's unlikely, but man I really wish 4e could get the same sort of updates and tweaks while retaining much of the basic core mechanics, 4e was hands down my favorite version of D&D but because of how wizards got fucky with their license for it it feels like it will be stuck in a limbo forever with the flaws and gaps in the system never fixed on a larger scale.

    I like 4E, too, but to be honest given the trouble I see some players have remembering how to run their characters, understanding what spells do, and deciding what to do in combat in the relatively simpler 5E I can't see the much more demanding 4E, or a game like it, taking off in popularity.

    EDIT: I've mostly tried to make peace with this by modding 5E combat to be at least a little more tactical using homebrew magic items, adding forced movement and status effect abilities to monsters, and giving Martial Adept as a bonus feat to characters that get a fighting style.

    Hexmage-PA on
  • Options
    StaticValorStaticValor Registered User regular

    The font is... impenetrable. But I dig the vibe.
    Y’all.

    That’s my front cover I reckon.

    PSN staticvalor_1
  • Options
    Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    Yeah it’s supposed to be hounskull but it looks like nounskull. Think I’ll stretch up the h some, but it’s alright if it’s a bit heavy metal.

  • Options
    ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    It's really hard to read, to be honest, at least for me. That "H" doesn't look like a letter, and the flourishes on the "K" and the "L's", especially connecting the "L's" together make it confusing, too. There's also some awkward spacing between "S" and the "K" in the middle which made me wonder if that second "K" was a capital something, and it was two words.

    I think the challenge is doubly so, as "hounskull" isn't a very common word. I had to google it.

  • Options
    UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Given part of the reason for things like Pathfinder et al was the way they restricted use of the 4e system it's unlikely, but man I really wish 4e could get the same sort of updates and tweaks while retaining much of the basic core mechanics, 4e was hands down my favorite version of D&D but because of how wizards got fucky with their license for it it feels like it will be stuck in a limbo forever with the flaws and gaps in the system never fixed on a larger scale.

    I like 4E, too, but to be honest given the trouble I see some players have remembering how to run their characters, understanding what spells do, and deciding what to do in combat in the relatively simpler 5E I can't see the much more demanding 4E, or q game like it, taking off in popularity.

    The context you put this in reminds me of the MMO Wildstar, which incorrectly gambled that the WoW playerbase wanted a return to balls-difficult 40 man raiding where every single person needed to be on point.

    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
  • Options
    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    The font is... impenetrable. But I dig the vibe.
    Y’all.

    That’s my front cover I reckon.

    I have literally no idea what that says.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • Options
    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    The font is... impenetrable. But I dig the vibe.
    Y’all.

    That’s my front cover I reckon.

    I have literally no idea what that says.

    Siounsku22

  • Options
    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Given part of the reason for things like Pathfinder et al was the way they restricted use of the 4e system it's unlikely, but man I really wish 4e could get the same sort of updates and tweaks while retaining much of the basic core mechanics, 4e was hands down my favorite version of D&D but because of how wizards got fucky with their license for it it feels like it will be stuck in a limbo forever with the flaws and gaps in the system never fixed on a larger scale.

    I like 4E, too, but to be honest given the trouble I see some players have remembering how to run their characters, understanding what spells do, and deciding what to do in combat in the relatively simpler 5E I can't see the much more demanding 4E, or q game like it, taking off in popularity.

    The context you put this in reminds me of the MMO Wildstar, which incorrectly gambled that the WoW playerbase wanted a return to balls-difficult 40 man raiding where every single person needed to be on point.

    With the irony becoming clear in retrospect with the classic WoW servers that the original 40 man raids were piss easy compared to the newer stuff, they actually were ratcheting up the difficulty over time, the players were just getting better over time at analyzing the numbers for character building and figuring out and executing optimized boss mechanic strategies so newer stuff seemed easier relatively.

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • Options
    StaticValorStaticValor Registered User regular
    Yeah it’s supposed to be hounskull but it looks like nounskull. Think I’ll stretch up the h some, but it’s alright if it’s a bit heavy metal.

    It's your design, but my professional recommendation would be to use some dummythicc sans serif font. A font that looks like you could pull off one of those L's and bludgeon a skeleton to powder with it. Similar heavy metal vibe with the benefit of high legibility.

    You want someone to be able to pick your branding out at a distance, but you also want them to be able to read the thing.

    PSN staticvalor_1
  • Options
    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Given part of the reason for things like Pathfinder et al was the way they restricted use of the 4e system it's unlikely, but man I really wish 4e could get the same sort of updates and tweaks while retaining much of the basic core mechanics, 4e was hands down my favorite version of D&D but because of how wizards got fucky with their license for it it feels like it will be stuck in a limbo forever with the flaws and gaps in the system never fixed on a larger scale.

    I like 4E, too, but to be honest given the trouble I see some players have remembering how to run their characters, understanding what spells do, and deciding what to do in combat in the relatively simpler 5E I can't see the much more demanding 4E, or q game like it, taking off in popularity.

    The context you put this in reminds me of the MMO Wildstar, which incorrectly gambled that the WoW playerbase wanted a return to balls-difficult 40 man raiding where every single person needed to be on point.
    Must be true, I miss 4E and Wildstar both.

  • Options
    Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Given part of the reason for things like Pathfinder et al was the way they restricted use of the 4e system it's unlikely, but man I really wish 4e could get the same sort of updates and tweaks while retaining much of the basic core mechanics, 4e was hands down my favorite version of D&D but because of how wizards got fucky with their license for it it feels like it will be stuck in a limbo forever with the flaws and gaps in the system never fixed on a larger scale.

    I like 4E, too, but to be honest given the trouble I see some players have remembering how to run their characters, understanding what spells do, and deciding what to do in combat in the relatively simpler 5E I can't see the much more demanding 4E, or a game like it, taking off in popularity.

    EDIT: I've mostly tried to make peace with this by modding 5E combat to be at least a little more tactical using homebrew magic items, adding forced movement and status effect abilities to monsters, and giving Martial Adept as a bonus feat to characters that get a fighting style.

    I don't really remember 4e being more demanding than 5e is, if anything the way powers worked and were laid out it seemed pretty straight forward to get the basics. There was Tactical depth and some wonky stuff with rituals and the like, to just pick up and play it seemed pretty well set up for newer players, and even the "trap" options weren't unplayable or anything.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • Options
    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Given part of the reason for things like Pathfinder et al was the way they restricted use of the 4e system it's unlikely, but man I really wish 4e could get the same sort of updates and tweaks while retaining much of the basic core mechanics, 4e was hands down my favorite version of D&D but because of how wizards got fucky with their license for it it feels like it will be stuck in a limbo forever with the flaws and gaps in the system never fixed on a larger scale.

    I like 4E, too, but to be honest given the trouble I see some players have remembering how to run their characters, understanding what spells do, and deciding what to do in combat in the relatively simpler 5E I can't see the much more demanding 4E, or a game like it, taking off in popularity.

    EDIT: I've mostly tried to make peace with this by modding 5E combat to be at least a little more tactical using homebrew magic items, adding forced movement and status effect abilities to monsters, and giving Martial Adept as a bonus feat to characters that get a fighting style.

    I don't really remember 4e being more demanding than 5e is, if anything the way powers worked and were laid out it seemed pretty straight forward to get the basics. There was Tactical depth and some wonky stuff with rituals and the like, to just pick up and play it seemed pretty well set up for newer players, and even the "trap" options weren't unplayable or anything.

    I did one game of 4E back in the day, most of the learning curve for me was from how different it was from 3.5 as opposed to the actual rules and concepts being difficult to grasp on their own.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • Options
    PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies drinking coffee in the mountain cabinRegistered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Given part of the reason for things like Pathfinder et al was the way they restricted use of the 4e system it's unlikely, but man I really wish 4e could get the same sort of updates and tweaks while retaining much of the basic core mechanics, 4e was hands down my favorite version of D&D but because of how wizards got fucky with their license for it it feels like it will be stuck in a limbo forever with the flaws and gaps in the system never fixed on a larger scale.

    I like 4E, too, but to be honest given the trouble I see some players have remembering how to run their characters, understanding what spells do, and deciding what to do in combat in the relatively simpler 5E I can't see the much more demanding 4E, or a game like it, taking off in popularity.

    EDIT: I've mostly tried to make peace with this by modding 5E combat to be at least a little more tactical using homebrew magic items, adding forced movement and status effect abilities to monsters, and giving Martial Adept as a bonus feat to characters that get a fighting style.

    I don't really remember 4e being more demanding than 5e is, if anything the way powers worked and were laid out it seemed pretty straight forward to get the basics. There was Tactical depth and some wonky stuff with rituals and the like, to just pick up and play it seemed pretty well set up for newer players, and even the "trap" options weren't unplayable or anything.

    5e is super easy to get started with, much easier than 4e. I love 4e and don't like 5e, but it takes a few sessions before the natural language of 5e adds enough confusion to outweigh the simplicity. Maybe vancian casting could be confusing for a first time player who has never heard of a spell slot? And the sleep spell is certainly a disaster

    sig.gif
  • Options
    Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Given part of the reason for things like Pathfinder et al was the way they restricted use of the 4e system it's unlikely, but man I really wish 4e could get the same sort of updates and tweaks while retaining much of the basic core mechanics, 4e was hands down my favorite version of D&D but because of how wizards got fucky with their license for it it feels like it will be stuck in a limbo forever with the flaws and gaps in the system never fixed on a larger scale.

    I like 4E, too, but to be honest given the trouble I see some players have remembering how to run their characters, understanding what spells do, and deciding what to do in combat in the relatively simpler 5E I can't see the much more demanding 4E, or a game like it, taking off in popularity.

    EDIT: I've mostly tried to make peace with this by modding 5E combat to be at least a little more tactical using homebrew magic items, adding forced movement and status effect abilities to monsters, and giving Martial Adept as a bonus feat to characters that get a fighting style.

    I don't really remember 4e being more demanding than 5e is, if anything the way powers worked and were laid out it seemed pretty straight forward to get the basics. There was Tactical depth and some wonky stuff with rituals and the like, to just pick up and play it seemed pretty well set up for newer players, and even the "trap" options weren't unplayable or anything.

    The main things that I think would be a hindrance to some players in 4E is that 1) martials are of equal complexity to casters, 2) many one round buffs akin to 5E's Guiding Bolt, and 3) many out of turn triggers for immediate interrupts and immediate reactions that mean players must be paying full attention at all times or slow everything down for everyone.

    Personally, when playing 5E I keep cliff notes of everything my PC can do, keep spell cards handy, have common attack routines written down, and write out ahead of time what I'm planning to do next turn and what dice and modifiers I'll have to keep my turns as short as possible. Meanwhile some other players will wait until their turn to ask for Xanathar's to look up a spell to see what it does and then still not understand half the time what it does despite having played 5E for years.

Sign In or Register to comment.