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[Tabletop Roleplaying]: Anyway Nazi punks fuck off

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  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    edited February 2023
    I've brought it up before but my personal fantasy for gold=XP is one where the XP only manifests when you spend gold on stuff most players won't.

    Because the issue with XP in traditional games is that it's boring and vaguely doled out till you hit the milestone. So just do milestones! (Or smaller XP with narrative triggers, as story games tend towards).

    The issue with gold is that it's only a meaningful restraint for the first bit unless you're really pedantic and boring about where it gets spent. So lots of games just abstract gold into large chunks or even just do a 'fuck it basic gear is free' base level of heroic economics.

    You can fix both of those by making it so spending gold on cool, evocative things is your XP:

    Suddenly players wanna fund big feasts in their honour, pay to repair the damage to the chapel incurred when they cast the demon out. The hard to model but vitally human ways people can spend money which aren't on their character sheets now become necessary progression for said character sheet as much as spending three hundred bucks on platemail or repairing/replenishing your gear and consumables is.

    I'm thinking about how best to model this.

    Like, I like it, but I don't love the direct equivalency, I guess. Spending 100 gold on whatever and getting 100 XP feels too mechanical, to the point that you might as well just get some XP from the outset. It's fun to narrate a feast from time to time, but if you're doing it every session you could probably just streamline.

    I've been fond of systems where you want to spend to improve your community or your circumstances or whatever, but those often function around like, specific coffers that you're paying into. Y'know, spend ten coin to upgrade the blacksmith and then have access to high quality weapons. But that feels less good for directly converting to XP. That's a communal gain, rather than an individual one, and it limits you to projects with specific milestones - holding a big feast or repairing the church don't really feel like they fit into that model of project.

    Could you maybe do like, similar to a character drive (thinking specifically of Trophy, where you can stash 50 gold to accomplish your drive and retire)? Not a big retirement level one, but a series of smaller ones that need to be filled up? Personal to each character, maybe like drafting them at the start of the game and just getting new ones after they turn up. Completing any given one gets you a new ability/level/whatever. Not sure that really solves anything though.

    Straightzi on
  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    oh my god leveling by fame, social contract, and cache is exactly the kind of shit I would want to pull on my players.

    WhelkKristmas Kthulhu
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    ‘Gain 1xp per faction who changed their opinion of you, for better or worse.’ is an end of session check for my black powder horror game.

    That and I want an ability that off sets the ‘outlaw -1’ rep penalties of not getting access to town facilities so certain groups can lean into it by having the one shady guy who invested xp in allowing them to sit in a camp outside town and still shop and junk.

    Depressperado
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Tomanta wrote: »
    Tomanta wrote: »
    I had a friend tell me of an L5R game he ran where a player didn't spend any XP. Just kept saving it up. Then in one session spent it all mid combat for a super Saiyan moment.

    Wait, how does that work? Does the system incorporates mid-battle levelling as a design possibility or did the GM just allow it per rule of cool

    It's not a level based system (was L5R 3rd edition). XP is spent independently to increase skills/attributes/get "feats". IIRC, there's no training time requirements in rules as written (but is implied). So it's just "I'm spending 90 XP to increase my Fire ring by 2 and another 30 to increase my sword skill, now I keep twice as many dice when I roll."

    There's also a rule of cool component, of course.

    The DM in a game of Rogue Trader allowed us to level up moments before a fight started, I think also for rule of cool

    As I was playing a Tech-Priest, the xp went towards upgrading my mechanical nature, so I picked a weapon mechadendrite

    In-game, it manifested as a Doctor Octopus-esque arm bursting out of my cloak and grabbing one of the other character's spare pistols, then shooting a Necron in the face

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
    DracomicrontzeentchlingCalicaElvenshaeKristmas Kthulhu
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    I've brought it up before but my personal fantasy for gold=XP is one where the XP only manifests when you spend gold on stuff most players won't.

    Because the issue with XP in traditional games is that it's boring and vaguely doled out till you hit the milestone. So just do milestones! (Or smaller XP with narrative triggers, as story games tend towards).

    The issue with gold is that it's only a meaningful restraint for the first bit unless you're really pedantic and boring about where it gets spent. So lots of games just abstract gold into large chunks or even just do a 'fuck it basic gear is free' base level of heroic economics.

    You can fix both of those by making it so spending gold on cool, evocative things is your XP:

    Suddenly players wanna fund big feasts in their honour, pay to repair the damage to the chapel incurred when they cast the demon out. The hard to model but vitally human ways people can spend money which aren't on their character sheets now become necessary progression for said character sheet as much as spending three hundred bucks on platemail or repairing/replenishing your gear and consumables is.

    I'm thinking about how best to model this.

    Like, I like it, but I don't love the direct equivalency, I guess. Spending 100 gold on whatever and getting 100 XP feels too mechanical, to the point that you might as well just get some XP from the outset. It's fun to narrate a feast from time to time, but if you're doing it every session you could probably just streamline.

    Mostly for the pacing aspect it's for dungeon delving/hex crawl kind of games IMO. So you aren't likely spending gold for XP every session but instead doing it when you get back to town after a long journey and so on. It essentially broadens the horizons of a 'lets go shopping and hang around town' session by making more frivolous celebrations included.

  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    I've brought it up before but my personal fantasy for gold=XP is one where the XP only manifests when you spend gold on stuff most players won't.

    Because the issue with XP in traditional games is that it's boring and vaguely doled out till you hit the milestone. So just do milestones! (Or smaller XP with narrative triggers, as story games tend towards).

    The issue with gold is that it's only a meaningful restraint for the first bit unless you're really pedantic and boring about where it gets spent. So lots of games just abstract gold into large chunks or even just do a 'fuck it basic gear is free' base level of heroic economics.

    You can fix both of those by making it so spending gold on cool, evocative things is your XP:

    Suddenly players wanna fund big feasts in their honour, pay to repair the damage to the chapel incurred when they cast the demon out. The hard to model but vitally human ways people can spend money which aren't on their character sheets now become necessary progression for said character sheet as much as spending three hundred bucks on platemail or repairing/replenishing your gear and consumables is.

    I'm thinking about how best to model this.

    Like, I like it, but I don't love the direct equivalency, I guess. Spending 100 gold on whatever and getting 100 XP feels too mechanical, to the point that you might as well just get some XP from the outset. It's fun to narrate a feast from time to time, but if you're doing it every session you could probably just streamline.

    Mostly for the pacing aspect it's for dungeon delving/hex crawl kind of games IMO. So you aren't likely spending gold for XP every session but instead doing it when you get back to town after a long journey and so on. It essentially broadens the horizons of a 'lets go shopping and hang around town' session by making more frivolous celebrations included.

    Fair. I think in the way I'd like to pace things in that sort of game that would still end up being the end of every session, which is also the place where I can see my players wanting to just spend their money and get it over with (a consistent downtime problem we have in Blades as well).

  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    Yeah, I can see that being a problem to a degree. Both my D&D/Mythras group and my more narrative/blades group have a lot of fun in like, downtime/town sessions and focusing on the various leads, places and small/no stakes scenes after the big Fantasy Fight/High Risk Mythras swords/Cool heist.

    Also finally actually put down the XP triggers for Marked Monsters, I feel like I need a fifth thing that players can aim for as like, resident evil protagonists in a fantasy western but I'm not sure what. Maybe a bonus for if the rumour came from you? (Annoying to track) Something extra as personal xp would be nice.:

    You gain 1XP any time the following occurs:

    You Survive a session.
    Your reputation as a posse to any faction changes, for better or worse.
    You take a major malady.
    You get to the bottom of a rumour.

    Between sessions (Or really any reasonable downtime, just don’t blindside your game master) you may gain new abilities at the following cost:

    Novice: 5XP
    Adept: 10XP
    Master: 15XP

    All abilities must be brought in order, to learn a master ability you must have brought the adept and to learn an adept ability you must have brought the novice.

    Albino Bunny on
  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    I feel like what I'd want there is the personal style goal. Y'know, a "you expressed your beliefs, drives, heritage, or background" style of thing.

    Albino BunnyMatev
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    I feel like what I'd want there is the personal style goal. Y'know, a "you expressed your beliefs, drives, heritage, or background" style of thing.

    I do need like, a personal goal in the sense of an extra individual XP trigger but there's not really a concrete way for beliefs/drives/heritage to be a clear thing.

    Plus, y'know, horror.

    I could steal the Bad Habits from Red Markets but that's just more on the character sheet.

  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    I'm not loot motivated at all. GP, gems (worth GP), artwork (worth GP), etc, I tune out. I like the idea of loot, but it seems like narrative driven D&D just doesn't have a system that makes it worthwhile. I've been trying to think of how I'd handle "common" loot as DM and my best idea is instead of finding GP, you'd find a lore-appropriate "fuel" for an random item generator.

    So in any given dungeon, where you'd normally find a chest containing 50-100 GP, you'd find a magicked bone or tablet worth 50-100 fuel points, and maybe it takes 100 FP to roll on Table A, 250 on Table B, etc.
    • Single party resource so you don't have to split it among the players
    • Encourages dungeon-crawling and risk taking
    • Doesn't blow up an in-game economy
    • Possible end up with fun non-minmaxed items Ring of Transform-into-a-toad

    Delzhand on
  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    I feel like what I'd want there is the personal style goal. Y'know, a "you expressed your beliefs, drives, heritage, or background" style of thing.

    I do need like, a personal goal in the sense of an extra individual XP trigger but there's not really a concrete way for beliefs/drives/heritage to be a clear thing.

    Plus, y'know, horror.

    I could steal the Bad Habits from Red Markets but that's just more on the character sheet.

    As a horror game, do your characters have like... fears or trauma or similar inherent to their character? I feel like something in that direction could be good as an XP trigger.

  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    I feel like what I'd want there is the personal style goal. Y'know, a "you expressed your beliefs, drives, heritage, or background" style of thing.

    I do need like, a personal goal in the sense of an extra individual XP trigger but there's not really a concrete way for beliefs/drives/heritage to be a clear thing.

    Plus, y'know, horror.

    I could steal the Bad Habits from Red Markets but that's just more on the character sheet.

    As a horror game, do your characters have like... fears or trauma or similar inherent to their character? I feel like something in that direction could be good as an XP trigger.

    The universal fact of the PC's is they all got marked by the Mirror, the weird existential force decaying and corrupting the land.

    So at the start of each region they all get various dreams that establish initial rumours. Plus they can get possessed, wounded and messed up more than any non marked person.

  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    I'm not loot motivated at all. GP, gems (worth GP), artwork (worth GP), etc, I tune out. I like the idea of loot, but it seems like narrative driven D&D just doesn't have a system that makes it worthwhile. I've been trying to think of how I'd handle "common" loot as DM and my best idea is instead of finding GP, you'd find a lore-appropriate "fuel" for an random item generator.

    So in any given dungeon, where you'd normally find a chest containing 50-100 GP, you'd find a magicked bone or tablet worth 50-100 fuel points, and maybe it takes 100 FP to roll on Table A, 250 on Table B, etc.
    • Single party resource so you don't have to split it among the players
    • Encourages dungeon-crawling and risk taking
    • Doesn't blow up an in-game economy
    • Possible end up with fun non-minmaxed items Ring of Transform-into-a-toad

    As someone else who isn't typically loot motivated, this doesn't feel like it would help. Like, it's still loot, just with a different abstraction in front of it.

  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    Sorry - I'm not gold motivated. That's the problem I'm trying to solve. If you're not loot motivated at all the solution is easy, just remove loot.

  • ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    I guess if you were going to try to tie investment of treasure to experience (and as such, power-level for PCs) you could perhaps present a world in which property owners are all higher level?

    The local tavern owner used to be an adventurer prior to retiring to manage their business.

    The founder of the arcane academy? That magic school came out of their pockets and you better believe they're incredibly high level.

    The leader of a recent kingdom? That's your 20th-level NPCs.

    That approach does make your world come across a little video-gamey (which isn't a criticism), but I think it runs into issues of inheritance & such.

    It also doesn't let you present low-level leaders of state (like the Sultan from Aladdin).

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    Zonugal wrote: »
    I guess if you were going to try to tie investment of treasure to experience (and as such, power-level for PCs) you could perhaps present a world in which property owners are all higher level?

    The local tavern owner used to be an adventurer prior to retiring to manage their business.

    The founder of the arcane academy? That magic school came out of their pockets and you better believe they're incredibly high level.

    The leader of a recent kingdom? That's your 20th-level NPCs.

    That approach does make your world come across a little video-gamey (which isn't a criticism), but I think it runs into issues of inheritance & such.

    It also doesn't let you present low-level leaders of state (like the Sultan from Aladdin).

    What game system was the Sultan from Aladdin in and what is their class/life path/mage tradition?

    Endless_Serpents on
  • ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    I guess if you were going to try to tie investment of treasure to experience (and as such, power-level for PCs) you could perhaps present a world in which property owners are all higher level?

    The local tavern owner used to be an adventurer prior to retiring to manage their business.

    The founder of the arcane academy? That magic school came out of their pockets and you better believe they're incredibly high level.

    The leader of a recent kingdom? That's your 20th-level NPCs.

    That approach does make your world come across a little video-gamey (which isn't a criticism), but I think it runs into issues of inheritance & such.

    It also doesn't let you present low-level leaders of state (like the Sultan from Aladdin).

    What game system was the Sultan from Aladdin in and what is their class/life path/mage tradition?

    Oh, they're a level four Socialite, with the Noble life path, in the Disney & Dice game system

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
    ElvenshaeDepressperado
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    I’m going to choose to believe such a game is not real and never search for it. You have cursed me, Zonugal.

  • ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    I’m going to choose to believe such a game is not real and never search for it. You have cursed me, Zonugal.

    This is a lie.

    In a week you'll have a primer written up for Disney & Dice.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
    DracomicronMatevBahamutZEROElvenshaeWhelkgavindelKristmas Kthulhu
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    It is that I would wish your home is the first to be devoured by Leviathan and Behemoth.

    Besides, I still have to do a write up of Sword World!
    uki6onykwn4y.jpeg

    DracomicronElvenshaeA Kobold's KoboldIanatorIloveslimes
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    I'm not loot motivated at all. GP, gems (worth GP), artwork (worth GP), etc, I tune out. I like the idea of loot, but it seems like narrative driven D&D just doesn't have a system that makes it worthwhile. I've been trying to think of how I'd handle "common" loot as DM and my best idea is instead of finding GP, you'd find a lore-appropriate "fuel" for an random item generator.

    So in any given dungeon, where you'd normally find a chest containing 50-100 GP, you'd find a magicked bone or tablet worth 50-100 fuel points, and maybe it takes 100 FP to roll on Table A, 250 on Table B, etc.
    • Single party resource so you don't have to split it among the players
    • Encourages dungeon-crawling and risk taking
    • Doesn't blow up an in-game economy
    • Possible end up with fun non-minmaxed items Ring of Transform-into-a-toad

    As someone else who isn't typically loot motivated, this doesn't feel like it would help. Like, it's still loot, just with a different abstraction in front of it.

    You could make it such that your players don't know what something is worth until they go back and try to sell it, and deal with the loot as encumberance.

    So that painting they found and need to lug about COULD be a rare piece of work from a famous artist, or an ikea poster.

  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    It really doesn't help that D&D doesn't really have a list of shit to spend money on, the weight is on the GM to give them stuff to spend money on.

    Like if I earn 20,000 Nuyen in a Shadowrun game, that is an extremely meaningful thing and I'm like oh fuck let's see how I can lose this right away.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
    Rhesus PositiveAlbino BunnyMatevZonugalBahamutZEROElvenshaeGlalWhelkNarbus
  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    I guess if you were going to try to tie investment of treasure to experience (and as such, power-level for PCs) you could perhaps present a world in which property owners are all higher level?

    The local tavern owner used to be an adventurer prior to retiring to manage their business.

    The founder of the arcane academy? That magic school came out of their pockets and you better believe they're incredibly high level.

    The leader of a recent kingdom? That's your 20th-level NPCs.

    That approach does make your world come across a little video-gamey (which isn't a criticism), but I think it runs into issues of inheritance & such.

    It also doesn't let you present low-level leaders of state (like the Sultan from Aladdin).

    That's only if all spending leads to leveling up for all people.

    Like, I believe part of the premise we were talking about suggested that you would have to make a choice between buying a new sword and throwing a sick party that will help you level up. Not all commerce is equal, essentially.

    And of course nothing was said suggesting that this was the case for anyone but adventurers.

  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    DARK MODE IDEA

    Anyone can engage in commerce and purchase a sword or barter for goods and services.

    But you are a Player Capitalist, and you can choose to invest your gold into increasing your own net worth for its own sake (net worth being of course your character level). The more you invest the higher your net worth and the more gold you can acquire to continue to invest eternally upward.

  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    I think my big beef with finding gold is how painfully it maps to the social side of D&D. A laborer makes 1 silver a day? And I just found 20 gold in a level 1 dungeon?

    Why would anyone be a laborer? Surely it's worth getting your buddies together and risking a run-in with some goblins to be the richest dudes in town for a day's work.

    ThawmusCruorwebguy20mrpakuDuke 2.0RanlinkimeEndless_SerpentsasofyeunWhelkPeewiA Kobold's KoboldironsizideUndead ScottsmanHappy Little Machine
  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Oh the economic model of the D&D world as written is hilariously broken, but that's its own whole thing. I'd consider it one of the many elements caused by D&D as a setting generally just trying to create a recognizable facsimile of the modern world painted with a medieval fantasy brush.

    Zonugalasofyeun
  • CruorCruor Registered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    I think my big beef with finding gold is how painfully it maps to the social side of D&D. A laborer makes 1 silver a day? And I just found 20 gold in a level 1 dungeon?

    Why would anyone be a laborer? Surely it's worth getting your buddies together and risking a run-in with some goblins to be the richest dudes in town for a day's work.

    That does make a compelling character backstory. Teamed up with some buddies with pitchforks and bowls for helmets, hunted down some goblins, their buddies all got goblin'd, and the character is now the last survivor who was exiled from their town for getting their friends killed (maybe one of the friends was the mayor's child, oh no!).

    ElvenshaeShadowenironsizide
  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    It is that I would wish your home is the first to be devoured by Leviathan and Behemoth.

    Besides, I still have to do a write up of Sword World!
    uki6onykwn4y.jpeg

    "Is that cover by the artist who did some Final Fantasy stuff"? Yes, yes it was. My wife acquired a book of his art from my parents house last time we were there. Don't know where it came from (must have been my brothers at one point but I don't remember him having it).

    BahamutZEROMegaMan001Ianator
  • ElddrikElddrik Registered User regular
    The most interesting way to do level ups is "you level up by engaging in the campaign world, in the ways that the game wants you to engage".

    The least interesting way to do level ups is "you level up at predefined story moments/when the GM feels like it/after certain sessions, regardless of your actions".

    XP for GP is an example of the first. In modern D&D, there is nothing to spend money on, but this was not true in the editions that actually used XP for GP. Name level characters got followers and were expected to hire hirelings, henchpeople, raise armies, build castles, invest in businesses, and similar things. Notably, these were all in-world things that required players to become invested in the world itself, and not just in their character sheet. Also worth remembering that XP from combat was much, much lower in these editions than it is in modern games; this created the desired gameplay, where you really don't care about the monsters and since combat is dangerous you prefer to avoid or negotiate with them when possible, you just want the loot. "Go burgle something" is a perfectly valid way to play with XP for GP, just sneak into the dragon's lair and make off with one jeweled cup worth thousands of gold. Sure there's more hoard there, but for low-level adventurers, you can't kill the dragon, but you can still level up off one good stolen item.

    Godbound does another example of this. To level up in Godbound, you need to both earn XP and spend a certain amount of Dominion. Dominion is your god-currency that you spend to alter the world. A Godbound character cannot level up without changing the world in some way, because they need to spend their Dominion to gain levels. The more powerful you are, the more impact you need to have on the world. Whether you craft an artifact, bless a nation, curse an enemy, raise mountains, drain a sea, whatever fits your goals and your divinity, you need to engage with the campaign world.

    A more recent example was a post I saw on the 5E reddit about how someone was doing a homebrew milestone thing. Instead of milestones based on out of character events or actions, they had scattered a number of rune-carved stones around their campaign world. Finding and touching one of these stones got you a level up. This lets players engage with the world and with their leveling at their own pace; if they feel they need to gain power, they search for a runestone. If they have a deadline on a quest, maybe they feel they have to finish the quest first at their current level and don't have time to go looking for ancient artifacts of power.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited February 2023
    wait a minute...
    all that Sword World art you've been showing... that's fucking Yoshitaka Amano art isn't it
    e: ah yes it is lol

    BahamutZERO on
    BahamutZERO.gif
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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    It really doesn't help that D&D doesn't really have a list of shit to spend money on, the weight is on the GM to give them stuff to spend money on.

    Like if I earn 20,000 Nuyen in a Shadowrun game, that is an extremely meaningful thing and I'm like oh fuck let's see how I can lose this right away.

    yeah this is ultimately the problem with Money Reward in D&D, they forgot to write any sort of money economy for players to give the money meaning

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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    It really doesn't help that D&D doesn't really have a list of shit to spend money on, the weight is on the GM to give them stuff to spend money on.

    Like if I earn 20,000 Nuyen in a Shadowrun game, that is an extremely meaningful thing and I'm like oh fuck let's see how I can lose this right away.

    Buy a gang!

    Or a fuckoff huge pistol.

    One or the other.

    ThawmusmrpakuMechMantisRhesus PositiveMatevFencingsax
  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    You know, a funny thing is that I've found that players basically never chase XP. XP is a thing you give as a fun extra feelgood reward for stuff, or a useful chit reminder to do their genre actions or whatever, but I don't think that I've had, in years, a player that would actually take a different decision because "the other option gave XP".

    Basically power tends to be kind of incidental to players IME. It's one of those things where if you get it that's badass, but if you don't you're not going to go out of your way to get it, you know?

    Steam ID: Right here.
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  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    I mean there's very few ways not to gain XP in D&D. The primary mechanisms of the game are pointed at getting you XP.

    Compare that to a game that wants you to roleplay for your XP, or wants you to end up in bad spots, or simply won't inherently give you XP for going down the rail that the GM has laid you, and I think you'll see a lot more actively going for it.

    Rhesus PositiveFencingsaxElvenshae
  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    edited February 2023
    (that said, all of those are true for Blades and I do still occasionally have players complaining about the slow leveling while they repeatedly end our sessions by answering no to all of their XP triggers, so maybe you're right)

    Straightzi on
  • Duke 2.0Duke 2.0 Time Trash Cat Registered User regular
    I don't like the abstract concept of a number going up as a buffer to number going down for necessary things

    but I do really like the vibe of playing a character looking at an ornate crypt and thinking 'I could probably pry the aluminum gilding off these engravings'. Fights going on while scrambling for a ruby the size of your fist clattering down a staircase. Glittering of coins at the bottom of a murky cave pool. The chase and dramatic moments in a dungeon are the appeal.

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  • ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    It really doesn't help that D&D doesn't really have a list of shit to spend money on, the weight is on the GM to give them stuff to spend money on.

    I continue to wish that 5E had published something akin to the Arms & Equipment as well the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook from third edition.

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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Duke 2.0 wrote: »
    I don't like the abstract concept of a number going up as a buffer to number going down for necessary things

    yes I also hate capitalism

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  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    It really doesn't help that D&D doesn't really have a list of shit to spend money on, the weight is on the GM to give them stuff to spend money on.

    I continue to wish that 5E had published something akin to the Arms & Equipment as well the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook from third edition.

    There is MCDMs strongholds and followers and it does some fun stuff with those concepts, and has a2nd book, kingdoms and warfare, that fine tunes things.

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  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    (that said, all of those are true for Blades and I do still occasionally have players complaining about the slow leveling while they repeatedly end our sessions by answering no to all of their XP triggers, so maybe you're right)

    Blades is a fun one because some players (like moi) will go all-in on combining their gamer optimization brains with their RPGer brains and the result is (imo) extremely entertaining, because Blades characters optimized for XP are... risk-takers, to put it mildly.

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