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Tipping/Gratuity Culture

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    KetarKetar Come on upstairs we're having a partyRegistered User regular
    I'm kind of curious that I haven't heard anyone else give this justification I've heard for tipping, which is that you tip in situations where an employee's service and pleasantness can make or break your enjoyment, but you are not paying for that service specifically. This is why waiters are tipped, because a shitty waiter can ruin your evening, but you aren't paying for the waiter per se, you're paying for the food. This is why you would also tip bellhops and doormen, and things like hairstylists. The ones that don't seem to fit well to me are things like food delivery and valet services, because you're not really interacting with them on a personal level, so the tip often feels more like a bribe to not fuck up your shit.

    Has anyone else heard this? It seemed to simplify the concept of who to tip for me, though it's not exactly foolproof. I'm also on the side of wishing tips would stop being a thing for the social anxiety aspects, though I do also tip regularly - but I also try to give money to panhandlers when I can, and I view tips along the same lines. It's more me giving to charity than actually paying for a service. (less so now because I'm unemployed)

    Delivery drivers are typically considered to be tipped employees and end up getting paid the same way waiters do.

    When I tried doing pizza delivery in college the restaurant owner paid me $2 for every hour I worked and $1 per delivery, in cash a little before the end of my shift. Without tips I would have been working for$4-5 an hour. Even with tips it ended up averaging out to something like $10-11 an hour. There is no chance that guy would have paid out more to ensure that I was making minimum wage on a slow day or bad tip day.

    In keeping with prior posts about how people who have worked for tips tend to tip better, I never tip less than $5 for delivery no matter how low my actual total was (for higher totals I go with 20%). It's a shit job for shit pay and it absolutely sucks when people don't tip or undertip and there's no way I'm doing that to someone in that position.

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    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Ketar wrote: »
    I'm kind of curious that I haven't heard anyone else give this justification I've heard for tipping, which is that you tip in situations where an employee's service and pleasantness can make or break your enjoyment, but you are not paying for that service specifically. This is why waiters are tipped, because a shitty waiter can ruin your evening, but you aren't paying for the waiter per se, you're paying for the food. This is why you would also tip bellhops and doormen, and things like hairstylists. The ones that don't seem to fit well to me are things like food delivery and valet services, because you're not really interacting with them on a personal level, so the tip often feels more like a bribe to not fuck up your shit.

    Has anyone else heard this? It seemed to simplify the concept of who to tip for me, though it's not exactly foolproof. I'm also on the side of wishing tips would stop being a thing for the social anxiety aspects, though I do also tip regularly - but I also try to give money to panhandlers when I can, and I view tips along the same lines. It's more me giving to charity than actually paying for a service. (less so now because I'm unemployed)

    Delivery drivers are typically considered to be tipped employees and end up getting paid the same way waiters do.

    When I tried doing pizza delivery in college the restaurant owner paid me $2 for every hour I worked and $1 per delivery, in cash a little before the end of my shift. Without tips I would have been working for$4-5 an hour. Even with tips it ended up averaging out to something like $10-11 an hour. There is no chance that guy would have paid out more to ensure that I was making minimum wage on a slow day or bad tip day.

    In keeping with prior posts about how people who have worked for tips tend to tip better, I never tip less than $5 for delivery no matter how low my actual total was (for higher totals I go with 20%). It's a shit job for shit pay and it absolutely sucks when people don't tip or undertip and there's no way I'm doing that to someone in that position.

    Your boss was committing a crime the entire time you worked there, how is that an argument for the practice of tipping?

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
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    KetarKetar Come on upstairs we're having a partyRegistered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Ketar wrote: »
    I'm kind of curious that I haven't heard anyone else give this justification I've heard for tipping, which is that you tip in situations where an employee's service and pleasantness can make or break your enjoyment, but you are not paying for that service specifically. This is why waiters are tipped, because a shitty waiter can ruin your evening, but you aren't paying for the waiter per se, you're paying for the food. This is why you would also tip bellhops and doormen, and things like hairstylists. The ones that don't seem to fit well to me are things like food delivery and valet services, because you're not really interacting with them on a personal level, so the tip often feels more like a bribe to not fuck up your shit.

    Has anyone else heard this? It seemed to simplify the concept of who to tip for me, though it's not exactly foolproof. I'm also on the side of wishing tips would stop being a thing for the social anxiety aspects, though I do also tip regularly - but I also try to give money to panhandlers when I can, and I view tips along the same lines. It's more me giving to charity than actually paying for a service. (less so now because I'm unemployed)

    Delivery drivers are typically considered to be tipped employees and end up getting paid the same way waiters do.

    When I tried doing pizza delivery in college the restaurant owner paid me $2 for every hour I worked and $1 per delivery, in cash a little before the end of my shift. Without tips I would have been working for$4-5 an hour. Even with tips it ended up averaging out to something like $10-11 an hour. There is no chance that guy would have paid out more to ensure that I was making minimum wage on a slow day or bad tip day.

    In keeping with prior posts about how people who have worked for tips tend to tip better, I never tip less than $5 for delivery no matter how low my actual total was (for higher totals I go with 20%). It's a shit job for shit pay and it absolutely sucks when people don't tip or undertip and there's no way I'm doing that to someone in that position.

    Your boss was committing a crime the entire time you worked there, how is that an argument for the practice of tipping?

    Do you think that was unique or even remotely unusual for a job like that?

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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    As a guy that basically started my working career waiting tables/bars and hustling for tips it is WILD to me that there are people calling for revolution in here because they periodically need to tip, like $4, for their late night order of Pad Thai.

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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited April 2023
    Eh, turning a $200 night out (cocktails, app, steak, wine, etc) into a $250 night out is not a small thing.

    Not like I'm doing that regularly (very much a 'once in a blue moon' kind of experience), but it adds up.

    People aren't just complaining about rounding up an $8 burrito to $10.

    Or look at the controversy we've had over tipping on both delivery and for pickup?

    If I order a $20 pizza and with taxes, delivery, and tip it comes out to $30, but if I go pick it up some think I should just pay the tip anyways and it's more like $27, then it's not a $20 pizza, it's a $27-30 pizza and I'm expected to do a bunch of arbitrary math and 'how good a day am I having' assessments on whether or not I feel like walking that block to save the delivery charge? (from their perspective at least)

    I will note that I am one of those assholes who doesn't tip on pickup. For those with the rotten produce, the line starts to the left. Let's keep this orderly.

    As others have noted, I take issue with the stupid tricks played to mess with us as consumers. That book isn't $9.99, it's over $11 after taxes (here that is), but consumers apparently don't like the full price being on display, so much so that they'll pay it more readily if it's just at the register but not properly priced right on the shelf? Tips just further exacerbate this.

    I think it's really telling how frequently people have said in this very thread that 10% is viewed as a nigh-insult, a slap in the face, a begrudging tip even for bad service (but not so awful that they dare not tip at all). Which again, just means that the meal actually costs 20-45% (edit: updated numbers to reflect taxes) more than listed, but we'll hide it in a bunch of traditions and unwritten rules instead.

    End result, if I can afford a $200 meal with a 20%+ tip, I can afford a $240-250 meal without an additional tip. The latter is just a more honest and known quantity going into the venture, without having to do math (if just to assess where this is all going to end up) while enjoying a meal with friends and/or after a couple of drinks. Without the confusion of overlooking that a minimum gratuity is already applied (as has happened to a friend) or an addition possibility for errors or oversights (or as we've also seen discussed recently, underhanded things like reversing the usual order and hoping some folks don't notice/don't care when they hit 30% instead of the intended 20% or whatever).

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    enc0re wrote: »
    Evaluating employees and maintaining quality is the job of the business not the customer. Having to decide on a tip at the end of the meal makes my evening worse.

    But even if tipping were a good system, the fact is it causes pay discrimination against people of color, men, and those over 40. That alone is enough reason to ban it.

    Yeah, regardless of everything else, it's a totally legal method of compensation in which black employees make substantially less money for the same work, which is definitely not great.

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    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Shivahn wrote: »
    enc0re wrote: »
    Evaluating employees and maintaining quality is the job of the business not the customer. Having to decide on a tip at the end of the meal makes my evening worse.

    But even if tipping were a good system, the fact is it causes pay discrimination against people of color, men, and those over 40. That alone is enough reason to ban it.

    Yeah, regardless of everything else, it's a totally legal method of compensation in which black employees make substantially less money for the same work, which is definitely not great.

    And was, as mentioned before, setup explicitly with that goal in mind.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
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    HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    I'm kind of curious that I haven't heard anyone else give this justification I've heard for tipping, which is that you tip in situations where an employee's service and pleasantness can make or break your enjoyment, but you are not paying for that service specifically. This is why waiters are tipped, because a shitty waiter can ruin your evening, but you aren't paying for the waiter per se, you're paying for the food. This is why you would also tip bellhops and doormen, and things like hairstylists. The ones that don't seem to fit well to me are things like food delivery and valet services, because you're not really interacting with them on a personal level, so the tip often feels more like a bribe to not fuck up your shit.

    Has anyone else heard this? It seemed to simplify the concept of who to tip for me, though it's not exactly foolproof. I'm also on the side of wishing tips would stop being a thing for the social anxiety aspects, though I do also tip regularly - but I also try to give money to panhandlers when I can, and I view tips along the same lines. It's more me giving to charity than actually paying for a service. (less so now because I'm unemployed)

    It's not a valid assertion anyway because there are a TON of critical folks in terms of "customer experience" who don't get tipped, and a lot of them also live at the bottom edge of pay rates.

    The guy at Jiffy Lube who does your oil change right and doesn't leave the pan leaking. The customer service agent at Comcast who actually seems to give a shit you are a customer and not caught in a monopoly. The kitchen staff at your kids school. JANITORS.

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    HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    Something's got to give if this broken system is ever to go away.

    So let's choose the path that doesn't hurt labor currently for potential benefits down the road. Let's not choose the worst path. Let's not choose the one where the people choosing it get to benefit at the cost of workers.

    So, what path is that? Without a massive service worker revolt/unionization, it's never going to have the support to pass legislatively in most places it hasn't already.

    Heffling laid out the various ways, and the reasons most won't work.

    I don't advocate for not tipping, especially in places where there's a below minimum level base wage (yes, the employer is supposed to make the difference, but failure to meet the minimum is probably going to impact your employment).

    But there's also no getting around it's racist, sexist, ableist. Also, confusing (both on where you tip, to whom, and how much). Being guilted into some nebulous amount, because the system relies on social shaming (made worse by people not participating) makes me feel uneasy every fucking time I've had to do it. When I'd sooner just pay the X% and have the server paid.

    So, short of not harming the workers in the short term, what's your plan to solve things? Besides just continuing the status quo?

    Supporting unionization, advocating for workers, voting. All the usual ways.

    I'd rather continue the current shit system than take advantage of it for my own personal benefit. Because unless the act of not tipping is coordinated and popular, that's all anyone would be doing.

    When did you become the person arguing to work within the system and me the one who wants to burn it down? :p

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    electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    Ketar wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Ketar wrote: »
    I'm kind of curious that I haven't heard anyone else give this justification I've heard for tipping, which is that you tip in situations where an employee's service and pleasantness can make or break your enjoyment, but you are not paying for that service specifically. This is why waiters are tipped, because a shitty waiter can ruin your evening, but you aren't paying for the waiter per se, you're paying for the food. This is why you would also tip bellhops and doormen, and things like hairstylists. The ones that don't seem to fit well to me are things like food delivery and valet services, because you're not really interacting with them on a personal level, so the tip often feels more like a bribe to not fuck up your shit.

    Has anyone else heard this? It seemed to simplify the concept of who to tip for me, though it's not exactly foolproof. I'm also on the side of wishing tips would stop being a thing for the social anxiety aspects, though I do also tip regularly - but I also try to give money to panhandlers when I can, and I view tips along the same lines. It's more me giving to charity than actually paying for a service. (less so now because I'm unemployed)

    Delivery drivers are typically considered to be tipped employees and end up getting paid the same way waiters do.

    When I tried doing pizza delivery in college the restaurant owner paid me $2 for every hour I worked and $1 per delivery, in cash a little before the end of my shift. Without tips I would have been working for$4-5 an hour. Even with tips it ended up averaging out to something like $10-11 an hour. There is no chance that guy would have paid out more to ensure that I was making minimum wage on a slow day or bad tip day.

    In keeping with prior posts about how people who have worked for tips tend to tip better, I never tip less than $5 for delivery no matter how low my actual total was (for higher totals I go with 20%). It's a shit job for shit pay and it absolutely sucks when people don't tip or undertip and there's no way I'm doing that to someone in that position.

    Your boss was committing a crime the entire time you worked there, how is that an argument for the practice of tipping?

    Do you think that was unique or even remotely unusual for a job like that?

    Your state labor board would've been interested in hearing about that. The resultant fines and general legal enema applied would probably have been more profitable.

    Isn't this meant to he modern thing? Stop not reporting employers breaking the law?

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Forar wrote: »
    Eh, turning a $200 night out (cocktails, app, steak, wine, etc) into a $250 night out is not a small thing.

    Not like I'm doing that regularly (very much a 'once in a blue moon' kind of experience), but it adds up.

    People aren't just complaining about rounding up an $8 burrito to $10.

    Or look at the controversy we've had over tipping on both delivery and for pickup?

    If I order a $20 pizza and with taxes, delivery, and tip it comes out to $30, but if I go pick it up some think I should just pay the tip anyways and it's more like $27, then it's not a $20 pizza, it's a $27-30 pizza and I'm expected to do a bunch of arbitrary math and 'how good a day am I having' assessments on whether or not I feel like walking that block to save the delivery charge? (from their perspective at least)

    I will note that I am one of those assholes who doesn't tip on pickup. For those with the rotten produce, the line starts to the left. Let's keep this orderly.

    As others have noted, I take issue with the stupid tricks played to mess with us as consumers. That book isn't $9.99, it's over $11 after taxes (here that is), but consumers apparently don't like the full price being on display, so much so that they'll pay it more readily if it's just at the register but not properly priced right on the shelf? Tips just further exacerbate this.

    I think it's really telling how frequently people have said in this very thread that 10% is viewed as a nigh-insult, a slap in the face, a begrudging tip even for bad service (but not so awful that they dare not tip at all). Which again, just means that the meal actually costs 20-45% (edit: updated numbers to reflect taxes) more than listed, but we'll hide it in a bunch of traditions and unwritten rules instead.

    End result, if I can afford a $200 meal with a 20%+ tip, I can afford a $240-250 meal without an additional tip. The latter is just a more honest and known quantity going into the venture, without having to do math (if just to assess where this is all going to end up) while enjoying a meal with friends and/or after a couple of drinks. Without the confusion of overlooking that a minimum gratuity is already applied (as has happened to a friend) or an addition possibility for errors or oversights (or as we've also seen discussed recently, underhanded things like reversing the usual order and hoping some folks don't notice/don't care when they hit 30% instead of the intended 20% or whatever).

    Yeah, tips are like taxes. People mentally work them into the cost of the thing they might be spending money on and evaluate whether they will even try in the first place based off that. When you are out on the road or something and need to eat out the question of "How much is this gonna cost, including tip" is a major consideration for whether or not you opt for a sit-down meal in my experience.

    Or some people don't and end up like the classic Dril tweet:

    "Where did all my money go? I only use delivery apps 4 times a day!"

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    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Heffling wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    Something's got to give if this broken system is ever to go away.

    So let's choose the path that doesn't hurt labor currently for potential benefits down the road. Let's not choose the worst path. Let's not choose the one where the people choosing it get to benefit at the cost of workers.

    So, what path is that? Without a massive service worker revolt/unionization, it's never going to have the support to pass legislatively in most places it hasn't already.

    Heffling laid out the various ways, and the reasons most won't work.

    I don't advocate for not tipping, especially in places where there's a below minimum level base wage (yes, the employer is supposed to make the difference, but failure to meet the minimum is probably going to impact your employment).

    But there's also no getting around it's racist, sexist, ableist. Also, confusing (both on where you tip, to whom, and how much). Being guilted into some nebulous amount, because the system relies on social shaming (made worse by people not participating) makes me feel uneasy every fucking time I've had to do it. When I'd sooner just pay the X% and have the server paid.

    So, short of not harming the workers in the short term, what's your plan to solve things? Besides just continuing the status quo?

    Supporting unionization, advocating for workers, voting. All the usual ways.

    I'd rather continue the current shit system than take advantage of it for my own personal benefit. Because unless the act of not tipping is coordinated and popular, that's all anyone would be doing.

    When did you become the person arguing to work within the system and me the one who wants to burn it down? :p

    Rats recognizes most places would rather burn it down than allow for any of those things. Its different sides of the same coin.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
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    LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    I turned on the TV today as some background noise and Kelly Clarkson was doing a segment celebrating some viral video where a mother screamed at her teenage son for only tipping 10% at a restaurant and had them on her show.

    It seemed to perfectly encapsulate why social shame on tipping works.

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    amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    I'll defend Kelly Clarkson because she's my bae but here's the clip for actual debate/discourse

    are YOU on the beer list?
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    HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    I'll defend Kelly Clarkson because she's my bae but here's the clip for actual debate/discourse


    Don't buy it.

    No one does a cash advance on a credit card for their dumbass kid to fix a tip.

    I was thinking ok maybe she's just referring to her debit card as a VISA but then she called it a credit card and ok nope, this is some tiktok bullshit.

    Which also explains the shit eating grin on the kids face the entire time.

    Shame on you, Kelly Clarkson!

    I mean primarily for being part of making reality tv a thing here instead of a fetid rot that primarily existed just in the UK.

    But also for buying some obvious bullshit for your inane daytime talk show.

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    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    How empty are people that they do this willingly. I'm going to make of video of me shaming my son and then put it online and then go on national TV with him about the whole thing. Not sure if it being fake would make it better or worse.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    If the son is in on the grift than whatever… this is on the media for not doing even the smallest amount of due diligence

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    It’s not so much about the Kelly Clarkson, as it is about the format. 180 episodes a season. For a talk show, you don’t uh generally get much time to vet guests. She is unlikely to even remember this day of work.

    I’m not mad at Maury when the guy turns out to be the father and they were all in on it. You can tell.

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    DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    If the son is in on the grift than whatever… this is on the media for not doing even the smallest amount of due diligence

    Who remembers balloon boy?

    What is this I don't even.
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    amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    Look Kelly is paying out the ass in her divorce.

    She's fine, I blame tiktok and parents

    are YOU on the beer list?
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    R-demR-dem Registered User regular
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/12aw3ed/unintended_consequences_of_high_tipping/

    Molly Moon's gets it. You WA people should go buy tons of ice cream from them for me.

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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    I'd be curious to know what the staff thinks of that. Salary appears to be $18/h - which isn't too shit hot.

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    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    I'd be curious to know what the staff thinks of that. Salary appears to be $18/h - which isn't too shit hot.

    for working in an ice cream shop as a scooper? It's way beyond what lots of people make working at McDonalds in a major metro, also without tipping.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
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    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    Not saying it is awesome, but Molly seems to be providing a much better base pay than anyone else in that class of restaurant.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Honestly, that kind of thing is how the tipping norm changes. You post exactly that sign and create a different norm. More restaurants need to follow suit.

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    R-demR-dem Registered User regular
    Indeed has McDonald's crew members averaging $15.36 in Seattle by comparison.

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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    I'd be curious to know what the staff thinks of that. Salary appears to be $18/h - which isn't too shit hot.

    I believe they offer halfass decent benefits too, or at least that’s what I heard. Medical, dental, PTO, etc.

    Not necessarily a fix-all for bad pay, medical benefits don’t pay the rent. But for a lot of workers who aren’t trying to be fully self supporting…dual incomes, roommates, students, etc…it may be a pretty fair trade off. It *is* at least a bit above minimum as well.

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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited April 2023
    I'd be curious to know what the staff thinks of that. Salary appears to be $18/h - which isn't too shit hot.

    Seattle minimum wage is 18.69 (it went up on the new year) or 16.50 while clearing that difference with tips. Odds are this policy costs the employees money.

    When I worked at molly moons and they got rid of tips, molly met with each employee individually to talk about it. She knew we would be upset. I was making about $25/hr or more with tips, and it for decreased to a flat rate of 18 an hour. It sucked to be honest, especially because we had to act like it was a good thing when customers asked

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited April 2023
    The tip jar at my local creamery isn’t exactly overflowing

    And I would be willing to bet most people at checkout are like “tipping for scooping some ice cream? Get fucked”

    joshofalltrades on
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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    The tip jar at my local creamery isn’t exactly overflowing

    And I would be willing to bet most people at checkout are like “tipping for scooping some ice cream? Get fucked”

    Idk if the place is a cash only business but I dont think cash tips have been the majority of tips anywhere for a while now.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    The tip jar at my local creamery isn’t exactly overflowing

    And I would be willing to bet most people at checkout are like “tipping for scooping some ice cream? Get fucked”

    This is the beauty of iPad payments. Not putting a dollar in the jar is a default action, all you have to do is nothing. But with new POS systems, they often default to a percentage based tip (which can be $2+ for ice cream) and to do less you have to start navigating menus, potentially while wondering if the backed up line is watching you do it. Not tipping with these systems is a very active thing, and can be awkward.

    So yeah, the tips were probably more than you’d think.

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    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    I'd be curious to know what the staff thinks of that. Salary appears to be $18/h - which isn't too shit hot.

    Seattle minimum wage is 18.69 (it went up on the new year) or 16.50 while clearing that difference with tips. Odds are this policy costs the employees money.

    When I worked at molly moons and they got rid of tips, molly met with each employee individually to talk about it. She knew we would be upset. I was making about $25/hr or more with tips, and it for decreased to a flat rate of 18 an hour. It sucked to be honest, especially because we had to act like it was a good thing when customers asked

    I wonder if everyone was making $25/hr or it was one hot employee while everyone else went home with an extra $3 on an 8 hour shift?

    There should be a pay bump if you change your policy like that, but the anecdote of one employee making a bunch on tips is part of the whole problem with the system, it allows for nasty biases.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited April 2023
    Doodmann wrote: »
    I'd be curious to know what the staff thinks of that. Salary appears to be $18/h - which isn't too shit hot.

    Seattle minimum wage is 18.69 (it went up on the new year) or 16.50 while clearing that difference with tips. Odds are this policy costs the employees money.

    When I worked at molly moons and they got rid of tips, molly met with each employee individually to talk about it. She knew we would be upset. I was making about $25/hr or more with tips, and it for decreased to a flat rate of 18 an hour. It sucked to be honest, especially because we had to act like it was a good thing when customers asked

    I wonder if everyone was making $25/hr or it was one hot employee while everyone else went home with an extra $3 on an 8 hour shift?

    There should be a pay bump if you change your policy like that, but the anecdote of one employee making a bunch on tips is part of the whole problem with the system, it allows for nasty biases.

    I mean anecdote or not, its a business paying minimum wage that once allowed tips and no longer does. That doesnt work in the employee's favor.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    The fuckin give away is that they dont say what they're doing for their employees anywhere on that little sign.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Roaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    It was absolutely one person making $25 an hour while everyone else received barely anything.

    And I'd wager even that person made $25 an hour maybe one day a week and just assumed that's average because people are terrible at math.

    I know when I was in college the expectation was that if you were young, you lived modestly and had one or two roommates to help with the rent so that your low income job could let you get by. Which was perfectly fine, it's not the end of the world having a roommate and a trashy car or maybe just a bicycle or whatever.

    Now the expectation seems to be you should be able to support a family of four in a metro off a single minimum wage job, so we just need to bump federal minimum wage up to $50 an hour to make sure everybody's bases are covered.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    The fuckin give away is that they dont say what they're doing for their employees anywhere on that little sign.

    I mean it’s a sign, you can only fit so much on it.

    https://www.mollymoon.com/tipfree

    Free medical, dental, vision, 401k, paid family and medical leave, paid vacation time…not amazing on the whole, but also not outright horrible for the job requirements.

    I can’t recall if this was the one, but I *think* they also offer full pay transparency? I recall reading that. So every employee knows what everyone else makes.

    I’d say they’re doing about as good as you can do while still paying at or near the minimum wage.

    As for the issue of some employees being tipped more for poor reasons, pooling is an option to address that. Though obviously I prefer just going tip free.

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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Lot of people have to try raising a kid on minimum wage man, idk what to tell you. Its not all kids serving burgers at the ol soda fountain any more.

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    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited April 2023
    $18/hr is a modest wage in Seattle. At best that will afford you a room for rent in a house with roommates, if you're both lucky and frugal, and not in the city center or a swanky neighborhood.

    Nobody is supporting a family of four in Seattle on $25/hr. At best, $25/hr gives the solo frugal worker some wiggle room so they aren't one mistake or emergency away from debt.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    There's another anecdote in there saying they used to pool tips at the capital hill location.

    So idk seems like the company gets some good press on the back of liberal rhetoric about fairness and equality while the actual workers get shafted and god damn is that Seattle right there.

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    ElJeffeElJeffe Roaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    Yes but it's unreasonable to expect minimum wage to cover every use case, especially when the government has a lot more means of addressing specific hardships beyond twisting the minimum wage dial.

    It's not necessarily your employer's responsibility to make sure they can fund every unfortunate situation you might find yourself in. And when we're getting mad at the guy running the ice cream store for only giving his employees $18 an hour plus full benefits, I think maybe expectations need some tweaking.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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