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Tipping/Gratuity Culture

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    Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    edited April 2023
    I so badly want to make a just the tip joke here but no one is giving me a proper setup and god damnit.

    Edit: best totp

    Death of Rats on
    No I don't.
  • Options
    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited April 2023
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Bro idk what to tell you. Life is full of social and moral obligations that dont come itemized on a bill.

    Youre not being particularly rational either. Youve already said you'd be fine with prices going up 20% to replace a tip. You're not even trying to save money.

    Right. Because I don’t generally mind paying what I owe.

    I’m less happy having some conceited asshole pretending their job is harder than mine and that’s why I need to hand them money I don’t actually owe them because reasons. I can think of better charities to donate to.

    Also denigrating the work I’ve done is a shit sales pitch for a charity.

    Its like your entire problem with tipping comes down to not wanting to be seen to do someone with a shitty job a solid.

    I don’t love how selective we are about it.

    Probably comes from spending more time in untipped service than tipped. Which yeah, is part of why having somebody come in and shit all over untipped service workers while insisting that traditionally tipped positions definitely deserve to be so over those untipped workers is a bit galling.

    The use of social pressure to exert money out of me to hand to that person? Yeah, don’t love it. I’d rather just pay my bill, even if it’s higher, even if that guy is getting paid well because it’s higher.

    Like I wasn’t thrilled when somebody tried to pressure me to chip in for a bunch of snacks and shit at work either. Snacks I wouldn’t be eating any of. Shit was nonsense.

    I also worked as an untipped retail/service worker, and I think your worry about social/societal shame is BS.

    You don't wanna tip? Fine. You think you're being shamed by your social group?

    OK? Find one that aligns to your ideas or accept that you've made a decision that doesn't fit your social group.

    I've changed social groupings multiple times because we don't align on some non-negotiables that I didn't know about going in.

    Not everyone needs to like you, and social pressure is a bullshit construct to hide behind.

    “I don’t tip table servers” I’d about two rungs above “I diddle kids” in terms of social taboo in the US. You will not built a social group of like-minded people around it. Or if you do, it’s likely that it will be literally the only thing you have in common. And believe it or not, no, I don’t make this my whole fucking identity. I participate in this thread because somebody else started it. If it wasn’t here? I wouldn’t have posted it.

    There’s a reason every single person in this thread save one (I’m not the one, oddly) has made it clear they tip servers regardless of whatever else they post on the topic. My hope is that maybe through actually talking about this custom instead of knee-jerk conforming, we can shift that at least a bit in my lifetime.

    Of course “retire in Europe where this shit isn’t a thing” is a decent backup plan as well.

    Comparing not tipping to pedophilia is beyond the pail. What the fuck is wrong with you.

    I see you edited out “touch grass.” Realized that was a cringey fucking response, did we?

    It was a touch of hyperbole to emphasize just how strong the tipping custom is in the US. Try openly telling all your friends you don’t tip servers. Refuse to tip when you go out. See how well it goes. You may find that it was actually fairly mild hyperbole all along.

    It’s probably one of the least socially acceptable things you can do without actually being illegal. Like, I bet I can be openly and violently racist and probably still find a decent sized friend group of like minded people who share other non-racist interests to hang out with. But not tipping? Even KKK members tip.

    Edit: Ah, I see you edited it back in. Bravo.

    mcdermott on
  • Options
    Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Oh not even UBI, just actual just wages would be fine.

    Of course tipping is a shitty system. Of course it sucks even more for the low wage workers who dont get tips. The only justifiable thing to do is keep tipping until we approach some kind of economic justice in this country, otherwise youre just making poor people poorer.

    Is economic justice actually possible in this country? I kind of doubt it, personally.

    Stabbity_Style.png
  • Options
    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    I so badly want to make a just the tip joke here but no one is giving me a proper setup and god damnit.

    Edit: best totp

    You know the best part about being the mohel?

    You get to keep the tip!

  • Options
    OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    D:

  • Options
    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    I so badly want to make a just the tip joke here but no one is giving me a proper setup and god damnit.

    Edit: best totp

    Just the top?

  • Options
    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Oh not even UBI, just actual just wages would be fine.

    Of course tipping is a shitty system. Of course it sucks even more for the low wage workers who dont get tips. The only justifiable thing to do is keep tipping until we approach some kind of economic justice in this country, otherwise youre just making poor people poorer.

    Is economic justice actually possible in this country? I kind of doubt it, personally.

    If we're still alive better things are still possible.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • Options
    crzyangocrzyango Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Bro idk what to tell you. Life is full of social and moral obligations that dont come itemized on a bill.

    Youre not being particularly rational either. Youve already said you'd be fine with prices going up 20% to replace a tip. You're not even trying to save money.

    Right. Because I don’t generally mind paying what I owe.

    I’m less happy having some conceited asshole pretending their job is harder than mine and that’s why I need to hand them money I don’t actually owe them because reasons. I can think of better charities to donate to.

    Also denigrating the work I’ve done is a shit sales pitch for a charity.

    Its like your entire problem with tipping comes down to not wanting to be seen to do someone with a shitty job a solid.

    I don’t love how selective we are about it.

    Probably comes from spending more time in untipped service than tipped. Which yeah, is part of why having somebody come in and shit all over untipped service workers while insisting that traditionally tipped positions definitely deserve to be so over those untipped workers is a bit galling.

    The use of social pressure to exert money out of me to hand to that person? Yeah, don’t love it. I’d rather just pay my bill, even if it’s higher, even if that guy is getting paid well because it’s higher.

    Like I wasn’t thrilled when somebody tried to pressure me to chip in for a bunch of snacks and shit at work either. Snacks I wouldn’t be eating any of. Shit was nonsense.

    I also worked as an untipped retail/service worker, and I think your worry about social/societal shame is BS.

    You don't wanna tip? Fine. You think you're being shamed by your social group?

    OK? Find one that aligns to your ideas or accept that you've made a decision that doesn't fit your social group.

    I've changed social groupings multiple times because we don't align on some non-negotiables that I didn't know about going in.

    Not everyone needs to like you, and social pressure is a bullshit construct to hide behind.

    “I don’t tip table servers” I’d about two rungs above “I diddle kids” in terms of social taboo in the US. You will not built a social group of like-minded people around it. Or if you do, it’s likely that it will be literally the only thing you have in common. And believe it or not, no, I don’t make this my whole fucking identity. I participate in this thread because somebody else started it. If it wasn’t here? I wouldn’t have posted it.

    There’s a reason every single person in this thread save one (I’m not the one, oddly) has made it clear they tip servers regardless of whatever else they post on the topic. My hope is that maybe through actually talking about this custom instead of knee-jerk conforming, we can shift that at least a bit in my lifetime.

    Of course “retire in Europe where this shit isn’t a thing” is a decent backup plan as well.

    Comparing not tipping to pedophilia is beyond the pail. What the fuck is wrong with you.

    I see you edited out “touch grass.” Realized that was a cringey fucking response, did we?

    It was a touch of hyperbole to emphasize just how strong the tipping custom is in the US. Try openly telling all your friends you don’t tip servers. Refuse to tip when you go out. See how well it goes. You may find that it was actually fairly mild hyperbole all along.

    It’s probably one of the least socially acceptable things you can do without actually being illegal. Like, I bet I can be openly and violently racist and probably still find a decent sized friend group of like minded people who share other non-racist interests to hang out with. But not tipping? Even KKK members tip.

    Edit: Ah, I see you edited it back in. Bravo.

    Dude, tip, don't tip, I don't care. Comparing RAPING CHILDREN to not tipping makes you a complete fucking asshole, no joke. Jesus Christ how does that not click for you?

  • Options
    crzyangocrzyango Registered User regular
    I like that you basically said you'd rather be known as an open racist than a non tipper, though. Thats.. That's a real stand up statement.

  • Options
    Death of RatsDeath of Rats Registered User regular
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Bro idk what to tell you. Life is full of social and moral obligations that dont come itemized on a bill.

    Youre not being particularly rational either. Youve already said you'd be fine with prices going up 20% to replace a tip. You're not even trying to save money.

    Right. Because I don’t generally mind paying what I owe.

    I’m less happy having some conceited asshole pretending their job is harder than mine and that’s why I need to hand them money I don’t actually owe them because reasons. I can think of better charities to donate to.

    Also denigrating the work I’ve done is a shit sales pitch for a charity.

    Its like your entire problem with tipping comes down to not wanting to be seen to do someone with a shitty job a solid.

    I don’t love how selective we are about it.

    Probably comes from spending more time in untipped service than tipped. Which yeah, is part of why having somebody come in and shit all over untipped service workers while insisting that traditionally tipped positions definitely deserve to be so over those untipped workers is a bit galling.

    The use of social pressure to exert money out of me to hand to that person? Yeah, don’t love it. I’d rather just pay my bill, even if it’s higher, even if that guy is getting paid well because it’s higher.

    Like I wasn’t thrilled when somebody tried to pressure me to chip in for a bunch of snacks and shit at work either. Snacks I wouldn’t be eating any of. Shit was nonsense.

    I also worked as an untipped retail/service worker, and I think your worry about social/societal shame is BS.

    You don't wanna tip? Fine. You think you're being shamed by your social group?

    OK? Find one that aligns to your ideas or accept that you've made a decision that doesn't fit your social group.

    I've changed social groupings multiple times because we don't align on some non-negotiables that I didn't know about going in.

    Not everyone needs to like you, and social pressure is a bullshit construct to hide behind.

    “I don’t tip table servers” I’d about two rungs above “I diddle kids” in terms of social taboo in the US. You will not built a social group of like-minded people around it. Or if you do, it’s likely that it will be literally the only thing you have in common. And believe it or not, no, I don’t make this my whole fucking identity. I participate in this thread because somebody else started it. If it wasn’t here? I wouldn’t have posted it.

    There’s a reason every single person in this thread save one (I’m not the one, oddly) has made it clear they tip servers regardless of whatever else they post on the topic. My hope is that maybe through actually talking about this custom instead of knee-jerk conforming, we can shift that at least a bit in my lifetime.

    Of course “retire in Europe where this shit isn’t a thing” is a decent backup plan as well.

    Comparing not tipping to pedophilia is beyond the pail. What the fuck is wrong with you.

    I see you edited out “touch grass.” Realized that was a cringey fucking response, did we?

    It was a touch of hyperbole to emphasize just how strong the tipping custom is in the US. Try openly telling all your friends you don’t tip servers. Refuse to tip when you go out. See how well it goes. You may find that it was actually fairly mild hyperbole all along.

    It’s probably one of the least socially acceptable things you can do without actually being illegal. Like, I bet I can be openly and violently racist and probably still find a decent sized friend group of like minded people who share other non-racist interests to hang out with. But not tipping? Even KKK members tip.

    Edit: Ah, I see you edited it back in. Bravo.

    Dude, tip, don't tip, I don't care. Comparing RAPING CHILDREN to not tipping makes you a complete fucking asshole, no joke. Jesus Christ how does that not click for you?

    It was hyperbole.

    No I don't.
  • Options
    crzyangocrzyango Registered User regular
    edited April 2023
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Bro idk what to tell you. Life is full of social and moral obligations that dont come itemized on a bill.

    Youre not being particularly rational either. Youve already said you'd be fine with prices going up 20% to replace a tip. You're not even trying to save money.

    Right. Because I don’t generally mind paying what I owe.

    I’m less happy having some conceited asshole pretending their job is harder than mine and that’s why I need to hand them money I don’t actually owe them because reasons. I can think of better charities to donate to.

    Also denigrating the work I’ve done is a shit sales pitch for a charity.

    Its like your entire problem with tipping comes down to not wanting to be seen to do someone with a shitty job a solid.

    I don’t love how selective we are about it.

    Probably comes from spending more time in untipped service than tipped. Which yeah, is part of why having somebody come in and shit all over untipped service workers while insisting that traditionally tipped positions definitely deserve to be so over those untipped workers is a bit galling.

    The use of social pressure to exert money out of me to hand to that person? Yeah, don’t love it. I’d rather just pay my bill, even if it’s higher, even if that guy is getting paid well because it’s higher.

    Like I wasn’t thrilled when somebody tried to pressure me to chip in for a bunch of snacks and shit at work either. Snacks I wouldn’t be eating any of. Shit was nonsense.

    I also worked as an untipped retail/service worker, and I think your worry about social/societal shame is BS.

    You don't wanna tip? Fine. You think you're being shamed by your social group?

    OK? Find one that aligns to your ideas or accept that you've made a decision that doesn't fit your social group.

    I've changed social groupings multiple times because we don't align on some non-negotiables that I didn't know about going in.

    Not everyone needs to like you, and social pressure is a bullshit construct to hide behind.

    “I don’t tip table servers” I’d about two rungs above “I diddle kids” in terms of social taboo in the US. You will not built a social group of like-minded people around it. Or if you do, it’s likely that it will be literally the only thing you have in common. And believe it or not, no, I don’t make this my whole fucking identity. I participate in this thread because somebody else started it. If it wasn’t here? I wouldn’t have posted it.

    There’s a reason every single person in this thread save one (I’m not the one, oddly) has made it clear they tip servers regardless of whatever else they post on the topic. My hope is that maybe through actually talking about this custom instead of knee-jerk conforming, we can shift that at least a bit in my lifetime.

    Of course “retire in Europe where this shit isn’t a thing” is a decent backup plan as well.

    Comparing not tipping to pedophilia is beyond the pail. What the fuck is wrong with you.

    I see you edited out “touch grass.” Realized that was a cringey fucking response, did we?

    It was a touch of hyperbole to emphasize just how strong the tipping custom is in the US. Try openly telling all your friends you don’t tip servers. Refuse to tip when you go out. See how well it goes. You may find that it was actually fairly mild hyperbole all along.

    It’s probably one of the least socially acceptable things you can do without actually being illegal. Like, I bet I can be openly and violently racist and probably still find a decent sized friend group of like minded people who share other non-racist interests to hang out with. But not tipping? Even KKK members tip.

    Edit: Ah, I see you edited it back in. Bravo.

    Dude, tip, don't tip, I don't care. Comparing RAPING CHILDREN to not tipping makes you a complete fucking asshole, no joke. Jesus Christ how does that not click for you?

    It was hyperbole.

    Pedophilia is not hyperbole. Child rape shouldn't be used as hyperbole. Come on.

    Edit: like, he's doing the full thing of "racists are hated less than non tippers". What the fuck?

    crzyango on
  • Options
    HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Just report it and let it go.

  • Options
    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited April 2023
    crzyango wrote: »
    I like that you basically said you'd rather be known as an open racist than a non tipper, though. Thats.. That's a real stand up statement.

    No, I said you’d have an easier time building a social group as a racist. Not that I would personally prefer to be known as one. An important distinction.

    Keep up the personal attacks though.

    Edit: I do stand by the statement though. I can get in my car, drive fifteen miles, and see rebel flags and MAGA hats all over. Meanwhile, if I want to be somewhere that non-tipping is acceptable, I need a passport.

    mcdermott on
  • Options
    crzyangocrzyango Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    I like that you basically said you'd rather be known as an open racist than a non tipper, though. Thats.. That's a real stand up statement.

    No, I said you’d have an easier time building a social group as a racist. Not that I would personally prefer to be known as one. An important distinction.

    Keep up the personal attacks though.

    Edit: I do stand by the statement though. I can get in my car, drive fifteen miles, and see rebel flags and MAGA hats all over. Meanwhile, if I want to be somewhere that non-tipping is acceptable, I need a passport.

    If you think you'd lose your entire social group over not tipping and telling them, I'd argue that your social group is tenuous at best. Or you're lying to them about who you are. We all accept some shitty opinions in our groups, and we all have deficiencies.

    If that's the one thing that makes them cut you out, that's wrong. I'd give shit to a friend that doesn't tip, but is otherwise cool, and most likely cover their tip. You seem like you want everyone to accept YOUR thought on it and not think badly of you. That's the disconnect.

  • Options
    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    I like that you basically said you'd rather be known as an open racist than a non tipper, though. Thats.. That's a real stand up statement.

    No, I said you’d have an easier time building a social group as a racist. Not that I would personally prefer to be known as one. An important distinction.

    Keep up the personal attacks though.

    Edit: I do stand by the statement though. I can get in my car, drive fifteen miles, and see rebel flags and MAGA hats all over. Meanwhile, if I want to be somewhere that non-tipping is acceptable, I need a passport.

    If you think you'd lose your entire social group over not tipping and telling them, I'd argue that your social group is tenuous at best. Or you're lying to them about who you are. We all accept some shitty opinions in our groups, and we all have deficiencies.

    If that's the one thing that makes them cut you out, that's wrong. I'd give shit to a friend that doesn't tip, but is otherwise cool, and most likely cover their tip. You seem like you want everyone to accept YOUR thought on it and not think badly of you. That's the disconnect.

    I suspect you’d eventually tire of either being embarrassed by a non-tipping friend or picking up their slack (by tipping behind them). Double tipping would also get expensive. I think you’d eventually stop asking them out, or do so farrr less. Of course we’ll never know, the taboo is strong enough I doubt you’ve ever had nor will ever have friends who just openly don’t tip table servers.

    I can literally say I’ve heard the n-word used in anger by white racists in public spaces more times than I’ve heard somebody say they were going to refuse to tip a server. Even for shit service. Of course that’s really just saying I’ve visited the Deep South. But still…

    And yes, I would indeed like people to accept things that I think without thinking badly on me. I’d settle for a sizeable minority within my own society, I never expect everyone to agree on anything.

    A sizeable minority do agree when I go to other western industrialized democracies not named Canada, mind. Maybe even a majority. So it’s not like my views are crazy or abhorrent on their face. US society is just fuckin’ stupid sometimes.

  • Options
    crzyangocrzyango Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    I like that you basically said you'd rather be known as an open racist than a non tipper, though. Thats.. That's a real stand up statement.

    No, I said you’d have an easier time building a social group as a racist. Not that I would personally prefer to be known as one. An important distinction.

    Keep up the personal attacks though.

    Edit: I do stand by the statement though. I can get in my car, drive fifteen miles, and see rebel flags and MAGA hats all over. Meanwhile, if I want to be somewhere that non-tipping is acceptable, I need a passport.

    If you think you'd lose your entire social group over not tipping and telling them, I'd argue that your social group is tenuous at best. Or you're lying to them about who you are. We all accept some shitty opinions in our groups, and we all have deficiencies.

    If that's the one thing that makes them cut you out, that's wrong. I'd give shit to a friend that doesn't tip, but is otherwise cool, and most likely cover their tip. You seem like you want everyone to accept YOUR thought on it and not think badly of you. That's the disconnect.

    I suspect you’d eventually tire of either being embarrassed by a non-tipping friend or picking up their slack (by tipping behind them). Double tipping would also get expensive. I think you’d eventually stop asking them out, or do so farrr less. Of course we’ll never know, the taboo is strong enough I doubt you’ve ever had nor will ever have friends who just openly don’t tip table servers.

    I can literally say I’ve heard the n-word used in anger by white racists in public spaces more times than I’ve heard somebody say they were going to refuse to tip a server. Even for shit service. Of course that’s really just saying I’ve visited the Deep South. But still…

    And yes, I would indeed like people to accept things that I think without thinking badly on me. I’d settle for a sizeable minority within my own society, I never expect everyone to agree on anything.

    A sizeable minority do agree when I go to other western industrialized democracies not named Canada, mind. Maybe even a majority. So it’s not like my views are crazy or abhorrent on their face. US society is just fuckin’ stupid sometimes.

    Please, PLEASE ask your US social group....

    Actually, just tell half that you don't tip anymore.

    Drop the N-Bomb with the other half.

  • Options
    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    I like that you basically said you'd rather be known as an open racist than a non tipper, though. Thats.. That's a real stand up statement.

    No, I said you’d have an easier time building a social group as a racist. Not that I would personally prefer to be known as one. An important distinction.

    Keep up the personal attacks though.

    Edit: I do stand by the statement though. I can get in my car, drive fifteen miles, and see rebel flags and MAGA hats all over. Meanwhile, if I want to be somewhere that non-tipping is acceptable, I need a passport.

    If you think you'd lose your entire social group over not tipping and telling them, I'd argue that your social group is tenuous at best. Or you're lying to them about who you are. We all accept some shitty opinions in our groups, and we all have deficiencies.

    If that's the one thing that makes them cut you out, that's wrong. I'd give shit to a friend that doesn't tip, but is otherwise cool, and most likely cover their tip. You seem like you want everyone to accept YOUR thought on it and not think badly of you. That's the disconnect.

    I suspect you’d eventually tire of either being embarrassed by a non-tipping friend or picking up their slack (by tipping behind them). Double tipping would also get expensive. I think you’d eventually stop asking them out, or do so farrr less. Of course we’ll never know, the taboo is strong enough I doubt you’ve ever had nor will ever have friends who just openly don’t tip table servers.

    I can literally say I’ve heard the n-word used in anger by white racists in public spaces more times than I’ve heard somebody say they were going to refuse to tip a server. Even for shit service. Of course that’s really just saying I’ve visited the Deep South. But still…

    And yes, I would indeed like people to accept things that I think without thinking badly on me. I’d settle for a sizeable minority within my own society, I never expect everyone to agree on anything.

    A sizeable minority do agree when I go to other western industrialized democracies not named Canada, mind. Maybe even a majority. So it’s not like my views are crazy or abhorrent on their face. US society is just fuckin’ stupid sometimes.

    Please, PLEASE ask your US social group....

    Actually, just tell half that you don't tip anymore.

    Drop the N-Bomb with the other half.

    You missed my point earlier.

    My current social group is not particularly forgiving of open racism. Of course dropping an N bomb around them would be much more offensive than not tipping.

    My point was that it would be easier to build a new social group as an open racist than as an open non-tipper. Because I don’t have to travel far to find people who are pretty accepting of racism. Like I said, get on the highway and drive away from downtown. When you see more rebel flags and MAGA hats than Priuses, you’re there.

    There are plenty of racist-ass people in America, and you can build a whole social group around basically any hobby you please, But Also Racist. Hell there was a white supremacist faction of the New York soccer team’s supporters group, from what I heard.

    I think you’d struggle to do the same with non-tipping. There are a fuckton more white supremacists in the US than non-tippers. At least this is my assertion, and the point of that comment. Put another way, racism is actually more accepted in the US (not in my peer group, not on this forum, but in America) than non-tipping.

    You catching it now? Or do I need to break it down even further?

  • Options
    crzyangocrzyango Registered User regular
    edited April 2023
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    I like that you basically said you'd rather be known as an open racist than a non tipper, though. Thats.. That's a real stand up statement.

    No, I said you’d have an easier time building a social group as a racist. Not that I would personally prefer to be known as one. An important distinction.

    Keep up the personal attacks though.

    Edit: I do stand by the statement though. I can get in my car, drive fifteen miles, and see rebel flags and MAGA hats all over. Meanwhile, if I want to be somewhere that non-tipping is acceptable, I need a passport.

    If you think you'd lose your entire social group over not tipping and telling them, I'd argue that your social group is tenuous at best. Or you're lying to them about who you are. We all accept some shitty opinions in our groups, and we all have deficiencies.

    If that's the one thing that makes them cut you out, that's wrong. I'd give shit to a friend that doesn't tip, but is otherwise cool, and most likely cover their tip. You seem like you want everyone to accept YOUR thought on it and not think badly of you. That's the disconnect.

    I suspect you’d eventually tire of either being embarrassed by a non-tipping friend or picking up their slack (by tipping behind them). Double tipping would also get expensive. I think you’d eventually stop asking them out, or do so farrr less. Of course we’ll never know, the taboo is strong enough I doubt you’ve ever had nor will ever have friends who just openly don’t tip table servers.

    I can literally say I’ve heard the n-word used in anger by white racists in public spaces more times than I’ve heard somebody say they were going to refuse to tip a server. Even for shit service. Of course that’s really just saying I’ve visited the Deep South. But still…

    And yes, I would indeed like people to accept things that I think without thinking badly on me. I’d settle for a sizeable minority within my own society, I never expect everyone to agree on anything.

    A sizeable minority do agree when I go to other western industrialized democracies not named Canada, mind. Maybe even a majority. So it’s not like my views are crazy or abhorrent on their face. US society is just fuckin’ stupid sometimes.

    Please, PLEASE ask your US social group....

    Actually, just tell half that you don't tip anymore.

    Drop the N-Bomb with the other half.

    You missed my point earlier.

    My current social group is not particularly forgiving of open racism. Of course dropping an N bomb around them would be much more offensive than not tipping.

    My point was that it would be easier to build a new social group as an open racist than as an open non-tipper. Because I don’t have to travel far to find people who are pretty accepting of racism. Like I said, get on the highway and drive away from downtown. When you see more rebel flags and MAGA hats than Priuses, you’re there.

    There are plenty of racist-ass people in America, and you can build a whole social group around basically any hobby you please, But Also Racist. Hell there was a white supremacist faction of the New York soccer team’s supporters group, from what I heard.

    I think you’d struggle to do the same with non-tipping. There are a fuckton more white supremacists in the US than non-tippers. At least this is my assertion, and the point of that comment. Put another way, racism is actually more accepted in the US (not in my peer group, not on this forum, but in America) than non-tipping.

    You catching it now? Or do I need to break it down even further?

    No, I caught your idea and condescension too. I'm sorry you feel more attacked as a nontipper than a racist (e) would be.

    Edit (e) for clarity, that looked unnecessarily aggressive.

    crzyango on
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    SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    If we have to wait for UBI in order for it to be socially acceptable to end tipping, then tipping is probably never going away. And even if we do get UBI, I bet some people will still advocate for tipping for the same reason that servers are low paid relative to other jobs and deserve it.

    sig.gif
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Not actually a mod. Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    crzyango wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Bro idk what to tell you. Life is full of social and moral obligations that dont come itemized on a bill.

    Youre not being particularly rational either. Youve already said you'd be fine with prices going up 20% to replace a tip. You're not even trying to save money.

    Right. Because I don’t generally mind paying what I owe.

    I’m less happy having some conceited asshole pretending their job is harder than mine and that’s why I need to hand them money I don’t actually owe them because reasons. I can think of better charities to donate to.

    Also denigrating the work I’ve done is a shit sales pitch for a charity.

    Its like your entire problem with tipping comes down to not wanting to be seen to do someone with a shitty job a solid.

    I don’t love how selective we are about it.

    Probably comes from spending more time in untipped service than tipped. Which yeah, is part of why having somebody come in and shit all over untipped service workers while insisting that traditionally tipped positions definitely deserve to be so over those untipped workers is a bit galling.

    The use of social pressure to exert money out of me to hand to that person? Yeah, don’t love it. I’d rather just pay my bill, even if it’s higher, even if that guy is getting paid well because it’s higher.

    Like I wasn’t thrilled when somebody tried to pressure me to chip in for a bunch of snacks and shit at work either. Snacks I wouldn’t be eating any of. Shit was nonsense.

    I also worked as an untipped retail/service worker, and I think your worry about social/societal shame is BS.

    You don't wanna tip? Fine. You think you're being shamed by your social group?

    OK? Find one that aligns to your ideas or accept that you've made a decision that doesn't fit your social group.

    I've changed social groupings multiple times because we don't align on some non-negotiables that I didn't know about going in.

    Not everyone needs to like you, and social pressure is a bullshit construct to hide behind.

    “I don’t tip table servers” I’d about two rungs above “I diddle kids” in terms of social taboo in the US. You will not built a social group of like-minded people around it. Or if you do, it’s likely that it will be literally the only thing you have in common. And believe it or not, no, I don’t make this my whole fucking identity. I participate in this thread because somebody else started it. If it wasn’t here? I wouldn’t have posted it.

    There’s a reason every single person in this thread save one (I’m not the one, oddly) has made it clear they tip servers regardless of whatever else they post on the topic. My hope is that maybe through actually talking about this custom instead of knee-jerk conforming, we can shift that at least a bit in my lifetime.

    Of course “retire in Europe where this shit isn’t a thing” is a decent backup plan as well.

    Comparing not tipping to pedophilia is beyond the pail. What the fuck is wrong with you.

    I see you edited out “touch grass.” Realized that was a cringey fucking response, did we?

    It was a touch of hyperbole to emphasize just how strong the tipping custom is in the US. Try openly telling all your friends you don’t tip servers. Refuse to tip when you go out. See how well it goes. You may find that it was actually fairly mild hyperbole all along.

    It’s probably one of the least socially acceptable things you can do without actually being illegal. Like, I bet I can be openly and violently racist and probably still find a decent sized friend group of like minded people who share other non-racist interests to hang out with. But not tipping? Even KKK members tip.

    Edit: Ah, I see you edited it back in. Bravo.

    This post is dumb. You should feel bad.

    Also this thread has gotten dumb. It should also feel bad.

    And closed. It should feel bad and closed.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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