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Tipping/Gratuity Culture

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    PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Tipping on a percentage is nuts

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    Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    edited March 2023
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    You might not see it but you're on the side that doesn't tip for X Y Z made up reason you've come up with to comfort yourself while saving a couple bucks at most while enjoying the luxury of take out food, food that's less expensive because the labor is cheap because they pay people less on the basis that they'll be tipped which you don't tip because of X Y Z made up reason etc, and so on

    Once more, for the cheap seats:

    I tip take out orders.

    Usually about 10% versus about 20% when I'm sitting down in the restaurant. Generally, if the establishment offers a way to tip, i tip.

    I was only discussing how much to give the various categories of employee.

    But I'm now going to just arbitrarily declare that all service employees should be tipped 40%. Including grocery baggers. If you're not giving $80 to that bagger on your $200 grocery tab, you're a right bastard who hates service employees.

    Why do you hate service employees, Jay? Clearly you do, because my performative outrage declares it so.


    Calling my outrage performative when I've worked in that industry for years is pretty um, yeah sure that's a thing you can do. I'll take my actual lived experiences and fuck right off, because things are perfectly fine as is.

    I'm glad you found a way to stiff people and still feel good about it, it's really just incredible stuff well done

    Also this is probably a "how much can a banana cost" moment for you but I don't think grocery baggers exist anymore, all the stores near me usually just have the person ringing you out do it since most every place has self checkout now

    Local H Jay on
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    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    If I knew the gas station clerk's wages depended on tips fuck yea I'd tip them every single time no hesitation

    But...like they do since it's the same shit wage as a waiter.

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    ElJeffeElJeffe Not actually a mod. Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    You might not see it but you're on the side that doesn't tip for X Y Z made up reason you've come up with to comfort yourself while saving a couple bucks at most while enjoying the luxury of take out food, food that's less expensive because the labor is cheap because they pay people less on the basis that they'll be tipped which you don't tip because of X Y Z made up reason etc, and so on

    Once more, for the cheap seats:

    I tip take out orders.

    Usually about 10% versus about 20% when I'm sitting down in the restaurant. Generally, if the establishment offers a way to tip, i tip.

    I was only discussing how much to give the various categories of employee.

    But I'm now going to just arbitrarily declare that all service employees should be tipped 40%. Including grocery baggers. If you're not giving $80 to that bagger on your $200 grocery tab, you're a right bastard who hates service employees.

    Why do you hate service employees, Jay? Clearly you do, because my performative outrage declares it so.


    Calling my outrage performative when I've worked in that industry for years is pretty um, yeah sure that's a thing you can do. I'll take my actual lived experiences and fuck right off, because things are perfectly fine as is.

    I'm glad you found a way to stiff people and still feel good about it, it's really just incredible stuff well done

    Also this is probably a "how much can a banana cost" moment for you but I don't think grocery baggers exist anymore, all the stores near me usually just have the person ringing you out do it since most every place has self checkout now

    Pretty sure I'm not hallucinating the baggers at the grocery store I go to two or three times a week, but I guess it's more likely that your personal lived experience applies to every person in the country and I'm just wrong.

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    Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    I'm glad you can admit that you're wrong, that's a healthy trait

    Apology accepted 🙂

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    tyrannustyrannus i am not fat Registered User regular
    don't forget about the service fees and inflation fees that don't go to the employee

    don't forget all those

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    tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    If I knew the gas station clerk's wages depended on tips fuck yea I'd tip them every single time no hesitation

    But...like they do since it's the same shit wage as a waiter.

    No its not. See the clerk gets $8 an hour. But the waiter only gets $2 an hour, makes $12 an hour in tips, and only reports $6 of that $12 for tax purposes.

    See the tipping is critical for the waiter.

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    SleepSleep Registered User regular
    If I’m not in dire financial straits I tip 20% as a matter of course. In dire financial straits it goes down to 15%. If I can’t afford that I don’t go out for the thing I want.

    I once tipped 100% at a random bar in New York to start off a multi night concert set I was going to (neverender). The next three nights they kicked people off the bar when we showed up to drink after the show.

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    Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    guys hear me out

    what if we just solved tipping by replacing tipped servers with AI robots

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    SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    Once when I was a young man I tipped a pizza delivery driver a 20 because my drunken idiot self and some drunken idiot roommates were blasting Rock and Roll McDonalds and the first words that came out of his mouth when I opened the door were "Fuck yeah Wesley Willis".

    That, to me, is an example of going above and beyond the job description, and I felt compelled to reward it.
    Raiden333 wrote: »
    guys hear me out

    what if we just solved tipping by replacing tipped servers with AI robots

    It's already happening. Search "Robot Waiter" or "Robot Waitress" on Youtube for a glimpse into the hellworld of tomorrow. One Florida restaurant owner is gloating about how the robot waitress, named "Pearl", can work 7 days a week, doesn't require vacations, can work doubles, and only costs around $2.50 per hour to operate. The tipped employee minimum wage in Florida is $5.44 per hour (after insurance and admin costs you're probably looking at a cost of around six bucks an hour per server), so "Pearl" will work nonstop for less than half of what it costs to hire a human being.

    If I have learned anything about the recent AI revolution it is that any job that was previously thought to be "replacement proof" is actually not replacement proof.

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Raiden333 wrote: »
    guys hear me out

    what if we just solved tipping by replacing tipped servers with AI robots

    Only if we arm them all so they can aggressively and murderously defend my merchandise.

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    wanderingwandering Russia state-affiliated media Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    IMBTA but pretty much only tip when socially shamed into it or when I legitimately have wonderful service or if I have a parasocial relationship with the worker (i.e. my local bar gets tipped more generously than the waiter at applebees in some other state).

    Anyway, tipping is racist and anti-american: https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/980047710/the-land-of-the-fee
    IMBTA
    Yes.

    Like, there's room for some legit disagreement about tipping, but if you live in a place where it's customary, and regularly leave $0 for the people who bring food to your table, you are a goose

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    MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    wandering wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    IMBTA but pretty much only tip when socially shamed into it or when I legitimately have wonderful service or if I have a parasocial relationship with the worker (i.e. my local bar gets tipped more generously than the waiter at applebees in some other state).

    Anyway, tipping is racist and anti-american: https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/980047710/the-land-of-the-fee
    IMBTA
    Yes.

    Like, there's room for some legit disagreement about tipping, but if you live in a place where it's customary, and regularly leave $0 for the people who bring food to your table, you are a goose

    And then you have this

    886drlpo4dou.jpg

    I think we can all agree that the people who do THIS are THE SCUM OF THE EARTH.

    They are the garbages and we should criticize them.

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    ElJeffeElJeffe Not actually a mod. Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    Once when I was a young man I tipped a pizza delivery driver a 20 because my drunken idiot self and some drunken idiot roommates were blasting Rock and Roll McDonalds and the first words that came out of his mouth when I opened the door were "Fuck yeah Wesley Willis".

    That, to me, is an example of going above and beyond the job description, and I felt compelled to reward it.

    I never got any cool tippers when I was a delivery driver. I made pretty good money overall, because I knew the city like the back of my hand and I could plot out routes to take 4 orders at a pop and get them there on time while other folks were doing two, but I always worked on volume and not individual megatips.

    I remember one time I was robbed. When i got back and finished taking to the police my boss explained that I had to pay him what the robber took out of my tips.

    Good times.

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    Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    edited March 2023
    MechMantis wrote: »
    wandering wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    IMBTA but pretty much only tip when socially shamed into it or when I legitimately have wonderful service or if I have a parasocial relationship with the worker (i.e. my local bar gets tipped more generously than the waiter at applebees in some other state).

    Anyway, tipping is racist and anti-american: https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/980047710/the-land-of-the-fee
    IMBTA
    Yes.

    Like, there's room for some legit disagreement about tipping, but if you live in a place where it's customary, and regularly leave $0 for the people who bring food to your table, you are a goose

    And then you have this

    [img-snip]https://us.v-cdn.net/5018289/uploads/editor/65/886drlpo4dou.jpg[/img]

    I think we can all agree that the people who do THIS are THE SCUM OF THE EARTH.

    They are the garbages and we should criticize them.

    Hey now. There's still one tier lower.

    The fake dollar bills that when you unfold them, inform you that money is unimportant and the real tip is letting you know you need to find salvation in the lord.

    Raiden333 on
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    MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    Raiden333 wrote: »
    MechMantis wrote: »
    wandering wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    IMBTA but pretty much only tip when socially shamed into it or when I legitimately have wonderful service or if I have a parasocial relationship with the worker (i.e. my local bar gets tipped more generously than the waiter at applebees in some other state).

    Anyway, tipping is racist and anti-american: https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/980047710/the-land-of-the-fee
    IMBTA
    Yes.

    Like, there's room for some legit disagreement about tipping, but if you live in a place where it's customary, and regularly leave $0 for the people who bring food to your table, you are a goose

    And then you have this

    [img-snip]https://us.v-cdn.net/5018289/uploads/editor/65/886drlpo4dou.jpg[/img]

    I think we can all agree that the people who do THIS are THE SCUM OF THE EARTH.

    They are the garbages and we should criticize them.

    Hey now. There's still one tier lower.

    The fake dollar bills that when you unfold them, inform you that money is unimportant and the real tip is letting you know you need to find salvation in the lord.

    Those are the SCUMMIEST of the Earth.

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    HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Raiden333 wrote: »
    MechMantis wrote: »
    wandering wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    IMBTA but pretty much only tip when socially shamed into it or when I legitimately have wonderful service or if I have a parasocial relationship with the worker (i.e. my local bar gets tipped more generously than the waiter at applebees in some other state).

    Anyway, tipping is racist and anti-american: https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/980047710/the-land-of-the-fee
    IMBTA
    Yes.

    Like, there's room for some legit disagreement about tipping, but if you live in a place where it's customary, and regularly leave $0 for the people who bring food to your table, you are a goose

    And then you have this

    [img-snip]https://us.v-cdn.net/5018289/uploads/editor/65/886drlpo4dou.jpg[/img]

    I think we can all agree that the people who do THIS are THE SCUM OF THE EARTH.

    They are the garbages and we should criticize them.

    Hey now. There's still one tier lower.

    The fake dollar bills that when you unfold them, inform you that money is unimportant and the real tip is letting you know you need to find salvation in the lord.

    Ok but that's tied with the asshole that puts a stack of $1s on the corner of the table and smugly explains they will take one away any time they feel service was not up to their standards.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Raiden333 wrote: »
    MechMantis wrote: »
    wandering wrote: »
    Doodmann wrote: »
    IMBTA but pretty much only tip when socially shamed into it or when I legitimately have wonderful service or if I have a parasocial relationship with the worker (i.e. my local bar gets tipped more generously than the waiter at applebees in some other state).

    Anyway, tipping is racist and anti-american: https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/980047710/the-land-of-the-fee
    IMBTA
    Yes.

    Like, there's room for some legit disagreement about tipping, but if you live in a place where it's customary, and regularly leave $0 for the people who bring food to your table, you are a goose

    And then you have this

    [img-snip]https://us.v-cdn.net/5018289/uploads/editor/65/886drlpo4dou.jpg[/img]

    I think we can all agree that the people who do THIS are THE SCUM OF THE EARTH.

    They are the garbages and we should criticize them.

    Hey now. There's still one tier lower.

    The fake dollar bills that when you unfold them, inform you that money is unimportant and the real tip is letting you know you need to find salvation in the lord.

    Ok but that's tied with the asshole that puts a stack of $1s on the corner of the table and smugly explains they will take one away any time they feel service was not up to their standards.

    That's someone who deserves to have the entire wad of bills shoved down their throat

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    TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    I grew up in the US, and worked valet parking for several years. Then I moved to Sweden, where I've lived for a decade.

    Tipping isn't expected here, but what freaks me out is that, while it's agreed that tipping is something that can occasionally be done, no one I've talked to has any guidelines for the amount that a tip should be.

    Is 10 sek (about a dollar) insultingly small at a restaurant? Nobody seems to know.

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    RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    I don't see how an employer could possibly legally punish an employee for getting tipped.

    Like... it's a gift. Customers can gift money to whoever the fuck they want. Manager McDipShit can go pound sand.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    I don't see how an employer could possibly legally punish an employee for getting tipped.

    Like... it's a gift. Customers can gift money to whoever the fuck they want. Manager McDipShit can go pound sand.

    Tell that to Walmart, accepting a tip could get you written up. Legal? May, maybe not, but to push back on it was to enter a whole different kind of hell as you went from asset to target.

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    SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    I'm of the opinion, if you really don't think it's worth tipping then maybe just go buy your own ingredients and chef them up yourself. You clearly see value in the food being prepared for you but can't understand that the person handing you the food is still providing you with a service.

    But in that analogy, you're replacing the cook, not the server. In this analogy, you'd just be taking the completed meal from the stove to the table. And maybe getting drinks.

    And as we all know:
    Tip pools rule. Service staff tips depend on porter and chefs work.

    Sure. The problem is when the cooks and other workers are making a better wage, and then getting tips on top (tips that should go to the servers who get paid like shit per hour)
    Tip pools are bad, because the cooks (and the bussers, and the cashiers, and and and) are already living it large and getting paid more already.

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    Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    I'm of the opinion, if you really don't think it's worth tipping then maybe just go buy your own ingredients and chef them up yourself. You clearly see value in the food being prepared for you but can't understand that the person handing you the food is still providing you with a service.

    But in that analogy, you're replacing the cook, not the server. In this analogy, you'd just be taking the completed meal from the stove to the table. And maybe getting drinks.

    And as we all know:
    Tip pools rule. Service staff tips depend on porter and chefs work.

    Sure. The problem is when the cooks and other workers are making a better wage, and then getting tips on top (tips that should go to the servers who get paid like shit per hour)
    Tip pools are bad, because the cooks (and the bussers, and the cashiers, and and and) are already living it large and getting paid more already.

    Tip pools are bad because it is literally taking money out of the hands of the person it was meant for and spreading it among other staff instead of just paying their staff fairly from the jump, the server included. As a cook, there were times I also relied on tips but I still felt really, really shitty knowing that money came directly out of the pockets of the servers around me who already made less hourly than me (yes the cooks made about double minimum wage compared to them)

    The other staff is not living it up. But 15 dollars should have been the minimum wage 10 years ago and by the time most places are getting it, it's woefully not enough to pay most people's bills these days.

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    romanqwertyromanqwerty Registered User regular
    Tarantio wrote: »
    I grew up in the US, and worked valet parking for several years. Then I moved to Sweden, where I've lived for a decade.

    Tipping isn't expected here, but what freaks me out is that, while it's agreed that tipping is something that can occasionally be done, no one I've talked to has any guidelines for the amount that a tip should be.

    Is 10 sek (about a dollar) insultingly small at a restaurant? Nobody seems to know.

    I'm in a similar boat. You'd think a country like Sweden would be one of the most hostile places to tipping culture since: everyone gets paid a living wage, income inequality is low, and no one touches cash with a ten-foot pole. Instead every single restaurant/bar etc. will present you with the price on the card-reader/payment processor and say "Please enter the amount", as if it is trying to passive-aggressively guilt you into tipping some indeterminant amount without actually calling it a tip. (I presume, never tried) You can't enter an amount lower than the price, and no one seems to know how-much, when, and why you should actually tip.

    I can only presume that this is our capitalist hellscape we live in where the payment processor vendors see this as a value add for their product that they can sell to businesses who see it as an additional revenue stream and so now it is everywhere (within Sweden).

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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    I mean, a situation where you can pay any amount extra on the tab but also aren't subsidizing wages is what tipping should be for?

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    It's been an issue for years for me in my trips to the US (non-native, frequent trips for the last two decades).

    "15%, more for good service, less for bad."

    Define good service. Because *I* don't want to be waited on hand and foot. Get my order, bring me my food, maybe one pass at refills *if* the glasses are empty, bring me the check. Some places I've seen it's just constant interruptions to check if there's more they can do. Be efficient, be unobtrusive, that is good service IMO. But apparently if they're not checking up on you, it's not good service?

    Though I do find the tendency of the people I stay with to extend stays at a restaurant, to be annoying. Once the plates are cleared, five minutes I want to have paid and out the door. Sitting in a restaurant for 15, 30, 60+ minutes after the food's done, just feels like I'm taking up table space/server attention.

    Tipping just makes me feel like an asshole. Or a chump. Or both. Just pay the wait staff appropriately, and have everything else factored into the bill. The argument that it gets better service is just abject bullshit. Tips are mercurial, and a lack of tip (or an over tip) is dependent on the whim of the customer. The idea that tipping to prevent bad service is more of an incentive than continued employment, is just so fucking dumb. Especially with America's labor relations issues, and lack (in some states) of labor protections.

    Anyways, I'd rather just pay an integrated cost. The other thing that grinds my nuts is not having accurate pricing (this is mostly retail/fast food, but it can apply to restaurants too). If I'm seeing a price of $35, I want to be paying $35. Not $35 + $6.27 tax. It applies to restaurants more now with the increase in service charges and the like. Constantly annoying.

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    AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    Why is tipping a %age? Is the service magically worth more if I order an expensive bottle of wine? Why?

    Also the outrage I felt when my bother informed me that I needed to tip a dollar to the bartender for taking a beer bottle out of the fridge and opening it was substantial. Pretty sure that dollar tip was over 20%>

    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
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    AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    edited March 2023
    I've seen people say they tipped "because the food was good". Wtaf does the server have to do with that? Should I ask to see the cook and stuff a 20 into his hat if the food's great?

    Antinumeric on
    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
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    Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    I've seen people say they tipped "because the food was good". Wtaf does the server have to do with that? Should I ask to see the cook and stuff a 20 into his hat if the food's great?

    As has been mentioned sometimes the tips do end up going to the other staff

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    zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    I've seen people say they tipped "because the food was good". Wtaf does the server have to do with that? Should I ask to see the cook and stuff a 20 into his hat if the food's great?

    When people say food was good in that sense it usually means the order was right from the jump as ordered, served at consistently proper temperatures, and the server was responsive to condiment / refill / other asks.

    The server is a big part of that and some is out of their control.

    Typically how 'good' the food is doesn't really matter for the cook / chef either. Sure they can burn something or undercook it, but mostly it's the same ingredients from Sysco cooked in mostly the same ways and the person doing the cooking is as interchangeable as the person who preps your food at a local McDonalds. Timing if different plates have different cookong times is the hardest part and even then usually not difficult.

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    SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I remember one time I was robbed. When i got back and finished taking to the police my boss explained that I had to pay him what the robber took out of my tips.

    Good times.

    I used to play Warhammer with a dude who was a pizza delivery driver who got robbed. Late night cash payment delivery into an empty parking lot, which he said set off some alarm bells going in, and then bam, guy with a knife. Got his wallet, a skirmish case of Warhammer models (Warhammer cases get stolen out of cars a lot because they look very similar to cases used for guns or tools), and if I remember right tried to steal his car but couldn't drive a stick and had to ditch it. He did the whole police thing, they found his car, and then they looked around the place afterward and found his wallet and his models (all smashed) by a nearby dumpster. I asked him why he didn't trust his gut and just leave instead of pulling in to the parking lot and basically he told me he would have gotten an immense amount of shit from his boss if he bailed on a delivery and someone complained, so he pushed his hesitation aside. He was put in a position where even though his spider sense was going apeshit he felt like he had to go into what could be a dangerous situation because the alternative was to risk losing his job. Pretty fucked up.

    Its only mildly related, and I don't tell this story very often because it sounds like complete and total bullshit, but I got robbed once at a market I worked at when I was young.
    It was a quiet night and a guy just casually walked in and put a gun in my face and said a sentence I didn't really hear except that it ended with "register". I looked up and saw the gun, and in that split second I honestly believe that if I had had any shit in my body at the time it would have immediately dropped into my pants. In holdups the victim has a tendency to focus on the gun instead of the person holding it, so from what the cops told me later the victim can usually give them a really good description of what the gun looked like, but can have a hard time sometimes describing the robber. That absolutely happened to me, I froze while staring directly at the barrel, then put my hands up and in front of me and looked toward the door, which caused him to look toward the door, and then I did the action movie grab/reverse move to take the gun away, pulled his arm in, and hit him in the forehead with it, then threw it to the side and came around the counter and held him on the ground while shouting for the other person who was working that night to come out of the beer cooler and call the police. The ONLY reason I did this was because in that moment, when I was staring terrified at the gun, I realized that it was a pellet gun (it was a Beretta 92 knockoff with a fullsize barrel opening but right inside the barrel was a plastic barrier with a very tiny hole in it).

    When it happened it was like a switch went off, I went from terrified to absolutely livid. The best way I can describe it is that I was furious that this person had been able to make me feel so afraid, like they had found a way to "trick" me into being so scared. The police arrived, and I acted surprised when they told me it was a pellet gun, and then the store owner's brother (who ran the place) got there and made them a copy of the camera footage. Even though it was grainy, black and white, and only took up a sixth of the screen (technically two sixths because the counter was being hit from two angles) I looked like a complete badass. I was the brave store clerk who had a gun put in his face and taikwando'd it out of the guy's hands, only later to discover that it was a fake. In reality I was a fake, and I played along and soaked up the glory. Later he'd show all of the other employees and a few of the regulars, and for a while afterward the joke was that I would do impressions of Steven Seagal at work (which were actually impressions of Will Sasso doing impressions of Steven Seagal). I made a statement but didn't have to go to court, and one of the news channels wanted to get more info from me and maybe do an interview but a day or two later there was a cop corruption thing in the town next to mine and that immediately sucked up all of the news focus for a while. By the time it was over with a measly little market robbery where no one got shot was literally old news. Somewhere buried at the bottom of a box in the bottom of a closet I still have a copy of the footage on an old VHS tape. As far as my coworkers or anyone who lived within a quarter mile of the store was concerned, I was the ultimate badass.

    Anyway, the boss wiped out my tab and gave me $100 and a bottle of Crown Royal (which I don't really like, so I took to a party that weekend where it was promptly disseminated among my other young and broke friends). I was too dumb to ask for a raise.

    Shit like that is why I am perfectly fine with employees working in positions that come with the threat of violence getting a steeper level of pay, I just don't think it should come from tips, but rather from the employer. I'm ok with my pizza or my microwavable burrito being a little more expensive if it means that the guy who delivers it or sells it to me can breathe a little easier come payday. A lot of people who are against higher minimum wages seem to claim that service industry positions (be they in fast food, restaurants, food delivery, etc) are designed for "young people" who are working for some side cash, and are not designed for adults who are trying to live on their own or raise a family. The problem is, we've spent decades outsourcing as many high paying blue collar jobs as humanly possible, which means there aren't as many jobs that were "designed" or "meant" to be held by adults who want to survive on their own or raise a family. You don't get to complain about people wanting their jobs to pay better when you've done everything you can (either directly, or indirectly) to eliminate as many high paying jobs as possible. Now we're seeing the whole thing begin to play out again, but with automation instead of outsourcing.
    Also the outrage I felt when my bother informed me that I needed to tip a dollar to the bartender for taking a beer bottle out of the fridge and opening it was substantial. Pretty sure that dollar tip was over 20%>

    For a short time I worked as a bouncer at a shitty nightclub in a shitty college town (amusingly enough when I got hired I noticed that one of the bartenders who worked there was the guy I had worked with at the restaurant before who got the $0 paychecks, who upon seeing me immediately pulled me aside and told me not to tell anyone where he used to work because he had gotten fired and had to lie on his resume to get the new job). The general gist there was that if you tipped the bartenders well you got stiffer drinks when you ordered, and if you were "cheap" than you got borderline virgin drinks. Also, at a crowded bar on a weekend evening the best way to get served quickly was to lean on the bar while visibly holding a $5 or $10 bill in your hand (it was a while ago). I had always assumed that was just the way it was with bartenders in general, so I wasn't surprised to hear it. I don't know how they were able to do this (that was the job where I found out that the way bars keep inventory on alcohol bottles is by weighing them, and I have no idea how you could mentally keep track of which people out of a group were tipping well or not well in a dark room with loud music and people yelling), but I was just security, I didn't ask questions.

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    LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    Raiden333 wrote: »
    guys hear me out

    what if we just solved tipping by replacing tipped servers with AI robots

    Only if we arm them all so they can aggressively and murderously defend my merchandise.

    I’ve got news for you

    *I don’t think it’s actually armed

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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited March 2023
    RT800 wrote: »
    I don't see how an employer could possibly legally punish an employee for getting tipped.

    Like... it's a gift. Customers can gift money to whoever the fuck they want. Manager McDipShit can go pound sand.

    Because it’s not a gift. It’s a gratuity. And if employees receive gratuities over a (generally low) threshold, the employer is obligated to report and withhold on those gratuities because they are income. Which they may not have the accounting system in place to handle.

    As for how they can legally punish that, the employer generally has the ability to regulate the interactions you have with their customers on their property. You’re on the clock for them, and they can enforce any number of policies from “no asking the cute customers out on dates” to “no accepting gifts from customers while on the clock.” Now, if the customer wants to meet you after your shift is over and slip you a fiver? Yeah, that’s none of your boss’s business. But any interaction you have with patrons on the clock are quite literally your boss’s business.

    A business is free to decide whether they want panhandling of their customers after service is rendered to become the norm. Which yeah, one tip slipped to the bagger at a grocery store one time isn’t gonna do that. But it doesn’t take long to normalize tipping a position, and next thing you know you’ve got baggers hesitating after helping people out, standing there looking like their palm’s itching. If a store doesn’t want that to be the normal experience for their customers they can enact policies to nip it in the bud.

    mcdermott on
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    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    In the crazy fancy dining world where people are ordering multi hundred dollar bottles of wine, you usually remove the bottles from the tip %, and give some nominal flat fee for the bottle service, like 20 bucks a bottle, maybe 30 if they are opening a 500+ dollar thing.

    As a waiter you still expect to make around 75-100 dollars per 2 top, and 400-500 from a 5-6 person business dinner. And you probably will handle a couple of those and a small handful of 2-4 top tables a night.

    It is good money, but also a very limited number of those positions compared to waiting at applebees or outback, where the reality is way different.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
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    Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    I've worked outdoor catering events and stuff like festivals, fairs, etc and people have often tried to tip me with beer/alcohol/drugs and as someone who is perpetually trying to get sober that... That shit sucks

    One guy as recently as last fourth of July tried to offer me a swig of his open beer. Thanks guy, but I don't accept backwash as a tip.

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    amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    edited March 2023
    WalMart gets away with it because they don't allow unions and will abandon a store before they give employees more freedom. Like WalMart is a case in and of itself.

    Having said that, during the pandemic, I asked 10 mobile checkout employees across three WalMart locations (while I was building my house) if they prefer doing the personal shopper stuff (10 out of 10 said they loved it, because they don't have to deal with customers, five specifically said they get paid more to do it, and two of the 10 took a $5 tip, the rest said it would just go to a charity donation box)

    I just wanted to add that because it was specific to WalMart and for some reason I decided to ask a bunch of randos if they like their job and can take tips, at a specific franchise.

    amateurhour on
    are YOU on the beer list?
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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Tipping is another thing that makes simple transactions kind of hellish for autistic/anxious/socially awkward people. Like it just creates a whole new level of difficulty. What's too much? What's too little? When is this expected? When is it rude? What are the social rules around deciding what good service is? When is a tip needed and when is it just going to get stolen by managers? When you're not as socially proficient as most people in the first place it's a genuinely stressful thing that makes the simple act of going out and enjoying a cooked meal daunting and unenjoyable. It adds the element of haggling and negotiation in, and if you're the kind of person who finds that kind of discussion with strangers easy it's really hard to explain how it makes everyone else feel.

    I'd rather just have that stuff priced into the product. I don't understand the argument that paying living wages to staff would make stuff too expensive. The fair price of labour is just part of the cost of what something is worth. If that cost drives a product/service up past a point people are willing to pay then I guess that really means whatever you're selling isn't actually in demand, and you're pushing stuff people obviously don't really want/need and propping up an unviable business by selling products at a loss and passing that loss onto workers by undervaluing their work. If that's the only way for a business to survive, then let it die.

    TL;DR, fuck tipping, charge what things are worth, pay workers appropriately

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    RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    edited March 2023
    Casual wrote: »
    TL;DR, fuck tipping, charge what things are worth, pay workers appropriately

    No but see the system works by charging as much as you can get and paying workers as little as they will take.

    RT800 on
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    mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited March 2023
    Casual wrote: »
    Tipping is another thing that makes simple transactions kind of hellish for autistic/anxious/socially awkward people. Like it just creates a whole new level of difficulty. What's too much? What's too little? When is this expected? When is it rude? What are the social rules around deciding what good service is? When is a tip needed and when is it just going to get stolen by managers? When you're not as socially proficient as most people in the first place it's a genuinely stressful thing that makes the simple act of going out and enjoying a cooked meal daunting and unenjoyable. It adds the element of haggling and negotiation in, and if you're the kind of person who finds that kind of discussion with strangers easy it's really hard to explain how it makes everyone else feel.

    I'd rather just have that stuff priced into the product. I don't understand the argument that paying living wages to staff would make stuff too expensive. The fair price of labour is just part of the cost of what something is worth. If that cost drives a product/service up past a point people are willing to pay then I guess that really means whatever you're selling isn't actually in demand, and you're pushing stuff people obviously don't really want/need and propping up an unviable business by selling products at a loss and passing that loss onto workers by undervaluing their work. If that's the only way for a business to survive, then let it die.

    TL;DR, fuck tipping, charge what things are worth, pay workers appropriately

    And the usual response to this is "just tip 20%, it's the standard, too easy" except that the "standard" tip changes over time. I was tipping 15% thinking that was the "standard" (because when I was working FOH it was) until just a couple years ago, turns out I was a cheapass. It also doesn't help when you're out with others and don't know what they're tipping, you don't want to be the one putting down 15% or 20% when they're throwing 25% or more, right? It just makes the whole act of paying a simple tab an awkward social interaction, which I hate.

    You'd almost think that "just choose the preprinted amount on the check" would be an option, except places have been gaming those too...as somebody noted, you see receipts now where the "minimum" tip is 22%. The fuck? I've seen photos of Square-style terminals that were defaulted to like 30/40/50 percent for the options, which is wild and an obvious attempt to fleece customers. So no, there are no shortcuts here. It's always awful.

    And then there's the whole "wait do we tip at all for this service" question as prompts show up for simple retail transactions like buying a shirt at a concert. It's all a minefield...and an expensive one...for the socially awkward and not-entirely-neurotypical. It's a game of "how much money do I have to throw at people I don't owe to not feel like an asshole" every time you check out, with no clear answers. I make a few dollars, so it's less of an issue for me. But not everybody is as well off as I am, and you shouldn't have to be rich to enjoy a meal out (or just, like, buy something) without this pressure. If there's one thing that's worse than haggling over the price of an item it's haggling over the monetary value of the human being who is looking at you while you check out. Fun times. No pressure!

    You know who's really loving this though? VISA/Mastercard/Payment processors in general. Because turning every transaction into a tipped transcation is just 20% more money in their pocket.
    RT800 wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    TL;DR, fuck tipping, charge what things are worth, pay workers appropriately

    No but see the system works by charging as much as you can get and paying workers as little as they will take.

    Which we only "fix" in an optional, ad-hoc fashion and only for a specific subset of service workers. Like every time I hear somebody say the words "if you don't want to tip, go to McDonald's" I want to punch a fucking kitten. Because the implications in that statement are disgusting, and you hear it all the time. Hell, even "if you don't want to tip, eat at home" devalues the people selling you your groceries, who are also workers and will be working more if that becomes the norm.

    mcdermott on
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    bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    I like European tipping because it allows you to show extra appreciation and they're generally always shared among staff only.

    I do not like the American extra hoops i, as a customer, have to jump through to pay your employees a living wage.

    Yh6tI4T.jpg
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