If you love [Star Trek] you must hate [Star Trek]

Hevach

Star Trek is awesome! Let me tell you all about it.

The Original Series is awesome! A few episodes. Maybe that one? Or the other one too! The rest is kinda awful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgqbW83slXU

The Animated Series is awesome! At least that one with the guy in it? Yeah, most of it is awful on drugs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhYnaHzpHNk

But the TOS movies are awesome! I mean... there's like three real bangers in there. Like... The one with the whales has its moments maybe?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=381IyBdfplo

The Next Generation is awesome. Well, ok, that one two parter is awesome. A lot of it is just dumb.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLXihtxPtbk

The TNG movies, though, those were awesome! You know aside from the lighting problems. And the costume thing. And the last two. And you know what, fuck it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rt4EmeBnGM

Deep Space Nine is awesome, though! The whole Dominion War. I mean, the three episodes of it that were actually war were awesome? And there's Garak. But most of it's kind of shit, too, I guess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FM6Xfs2ZoY

Voyager really is awesome! It's got the hologram guy and the Borg lady. Oh, but then there's the hedgehog guy. And there's a couple actors that literally carry phones around on set. Yeah, it's not that good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwZiezIxCVU

Enterprise was awesome, though! Never gets the recognition it deserves. I mean... skip season 1... and 3... and most of 2. Basically watch the Romulan episode in season 4. But not too closely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3MKIfXKotg

The Kelvin timeline was awesome, though! Kind of the forgotten alternate universe stuff. I mean... well, skip the first two. And the last one had the whole finale thing. Honestly everything worth knowing you can get off wikipedia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXy_DO6IZOA

Discovery is great! At least... Pike is great, right? No but he's only in season 2. No, Discovery sucks, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRDfr8QBknM

Ok, Picard, though, that's awesome! There's tons of little random shit in the background that you can notice and point out. Yeah! Awesome! Oh, the foreground though... I mean, there's that one part with Elnor. Oh, that is unfortunate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsM6eJSsiF4

Yeah, but Lower Decks, right? That's awesome! There's the Xon joke and so many deep cuts. Yeah, that's awesome. You know, except for that thing... and the rest of that other part. And that one episode where a bird fucks a robot? Nah, nevermind, start somewhere else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYbZ5QLSXDg

Prodigy is awesome! It's got Janeway! And a bonus Janeway! I mean, yeah, it's kind of for kids and it's not very subtle and... Yeah, never mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID_ivDku_vU

Oh, but Strange New Worlds! I can't complain about that! Not a single damn thing! Nothing... Well, except the weird Gorn thing. And that one... And there was that one part? With the dude? Meh...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPor8-NHX0o

Never mind, Star Trek is shit.

Previous thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/245868/star-trek-holodeck-madness-is-incurable-latest-seasons-of-current-shows-in-spoilers


Closed spoilers for the most recent season of all current shows. Use your judgement for earlier seasons. Generally open spoilers for anything before Discovery, but occasionally somebody new is doing an active watch and posting reactions, be courteous and don't actively spoil their upcoming episodes.

Ringo

Star Trek is a land of contrasts

maraji

Forget it Hevach, it’s Star Trek.

Commander Zoom

I've been watching Star Trek for over forty years (my God). Of the OP, I can only say this:
"It's true. All of it."
(Wait, no, that's Han Solo.)

Hevach

This OP was loosely based on conversations I had with my wife when we were dating. She liked Enterprise (despite my best efforts it's still her favorite series) and had watched some Voyager, but nothing else. So while she has now watched everything except TAS and some of the movies, she extracted some difficult confessions from me along the way.

"So... what's going on with the candle?"
"Scottish sex ghost."
"What the fuck?"
"Just watch."
"Scottish sex ghost... ok... And you like Picard better than Archer?"

Noneoftheabove

Can we talk about how TNG Generations, First Contact and Insurrection are just the best TNG movies? Come at me.

Ringo

Noneoftheabove wrote: »

Can we talk about how TNG Generations, First Contact and Insurrection are just the best TNG movies? Come at me.

They're definitely the top 3 TNG movies!

Albino Bunny

Archer does have a dog and likes kids which does score points against Picard

SeñorAmor

I thought Star Trek was that show with Ed McMahon?

Hevach

SeñorAmor wrote: »

I thought Star Trek was that show with Ed McMahon?

That's Star Search. Of the four biggest Star franchises (Trek, Wars, Gate, Search) Star Search is solidly number 3.

Hahnsoo1

Hevach wrote: »

SeñorAmor wrote: »

I thought Star Trek was that show with Ed McMahon?

That's Star Search. Of the four biggest Star franchises (Trek, Wars, Gate, Search) Star Search is solidly number 3.

There’s also Dancing With the Stars.

SeñorAmor

Hevach wrote: »

SeñorAmor wrote: »

I thought Star Trek was that show with Ed McMahon?

That's Star Search. Of the four biggest Star franchises (Trek, Wars, Gate, Search) Star Search is solidly number 3.

Wait, I thought Star Search was the show where the people brought in unique items to be appraised only to be undervalued by the owner?

Ringo

SeñorAmor wrote: »

Hevach wrote: »

SeñorAmor wrote: »

I thought Star Trek was that show with Ed McMahon?

That's Star Search. Of the four biggest Star franchises (Trek, Wars, Gate, Search) Star Search is solidly number 3.

Wait, I thought Star Search was the show where the people brought in unique items to be appraised only to be undervalued by the owner?

No, that's HBOMAX

hlprmnky

Everybody loves to dunk on Move Along Home but I reiterate my contention that it actually slaps.
The Wadi are a delightful slice of TOS-style camp. Despite the fact that they choose four unwitting volunteers for the “inside” part in a fit of pique, their game is amazing. Asymmetric gameplay, adaptive challenges, and mechanically, it’s a beautiful marriage of a holonovel, escape room, and Euro-style boardgame? Tell me you wouldn’t play that all day with your friends if you could.
Finally, it gives us solid character beats for all of: Sisko, Kira, Jadzia, Julian, Odo, and Quark and establishes the Quark/Odo best frenemies relationship that gives us some of the very best dialogue in the show as time goes on. (“I am going to kill him.” “With what?”)
Folks think the little hopscotch dance is silly and so condemn an episode that belongs in the top half of DS9’s first season at worst, and that scene is just not a very good reason to pan it IMO. It’s not like anyone turns into salamanders.

Hevach

The best part is at the end, when after all the episode they realize there was never any danger or reason for fear. "Yeah but OUR games occasionally go haywire and eat people, so you can't just put us in yours." "Well that sounds like a you problem, and that's horrible, I am so glad we didn't let Quark pick the game."

The holodeck hostage situation is such a staple even at that point that the audience and characters are primed to assume it's a life or death situation, and so shocked it isn't nobody even makes any of the still valid criticisms about informed consent.

Commander Zoom

Hevach wrote: »

The best part is at the end, when after all the episode they realize there was never any danger or reason for fear. "Yeah but OUR games occasionally go haywire and eat people, so you can't just put us in yours." "Well that sounds like a you problem, and that's horrible, I am so glad we didn't let Quark pick the game."

The holodeck hostage situation is such a staple even at that point that the audience and characters are primed to assume it's a life or death situation, and so shocked it isn't nobody even makes any of the still valid criticisms about informed consent.

I unironically love that episode just because it calls out how stupid that trope is (and not just in Trek, either).

klemming

Carried over from the old thread:

Hevach wrote: »

The Federation was winning* the last war with the Klingons in DS9. Granted the Klingons were fighting two wars, with the whole-ass Federation to cross under cloak to get to the Cardassian front, but the Cardassians are a baboon at the gorilla table - they make a lot of noise and throw a lot of shit, but everyone at the table has won a fight with them without committing their full power and while wrong footed the whole time.


*-At least the SPOKE as if they were. The war lasted from the beginning of s4 until the end of s5, but was entirely contained to a single sector and mostly contained to a handful of planets in that sector. No Federation offensive actions are mentioned, only Klingon ones, most of which were ultimately repelled. It's possible the Federation wasn't so much winning as holding on to the status quo expecting the Dominion to come through the wormhole at any moment and hoping the alliance could be restored in the face of a third man in.

At the very least that war was not the kind of existential threat that the war during Discovery season 1 was, or what Starfleet predicted in Errand of Mercy before the Organians lit up everyone's shit and said, "War's over, go home and go fuck yourselves." Starfleet in that era was a different animal, post Wolf 359 Starfleet has serious teeth and we pretty frequently see that the Federation is rapidly rising as the preeminent superpower of the quadrant, shrugging off threats that were Federation-level problems in prior series.

In both Discovery and DS9, they may not have been winning, but they clearly demonstrated their ability to win.
In DS9 they infiltrate one of the most secure places in the Empire, and Worf is one swing away from killing Gowron before Odo clears up the hilarious misunderstanding. Even if it wasn't the purpose of the mission, they've just shown that they can kill the Klingon high command if they decide they have to.
In Discovery they're primed and ready to destroy the Klingon's whole planet before they have a dramatic attack of conscience. It was all over bar pressing the button, and they chose to go another way.

RazielMortem

Yeah Move Along Home is a fine episode. But only because the reveal at the end 'Danger?? You were never in any Danger!!' The surprise and indignation that they might play a dangerous game sells the episode - because the Wadi actors, particularly the lead Joel Brooks, manage to exude sinister menace with every word up to this point. The rug pull is wonderful and indeed works because it shows how silly the trope is.,

klemming

It also makes their reaction to Quark begging not to have to sacrifice one of his pieces funnier.
"Wow, some people get way too attached to their pieces, it's just a game, dude."

daveNYC

I think the reveal that it was actually just a (totally safe) game only really works as a cool reveal (and sort of a release valve for the tension) for an audience that's been primed on all the TOS and TNG episodes where the situation is deadly serious.

Hevach

That's true, but at the same time this was season 1 of a TNG spinoff that hadn't found it's own place yet and was running alongside TNG, regularly as a "stick around and keep watching because everything else went to news" follower to TNG (TNG and DS9 were both first run syndication, so timeslots and networks were all over the place, but most stations that ran TNG ended up picking DS9 to complete the set). It's audience was reasonably primed.

daveNYC

Hevach wrote: »

That's true, but at the same time this was season 1 of a TNG spinoff that hadn't found it's own place yet and was running alongside TNG, usually as a "stick around and keep watching because everything else went to news" follower to TNG. It's audience was reasonably primed.

True. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Move Along Home wasn't a reskinned TNG episode. It's got good character moments, but nothing that really makes me thing it was definitely specifically written for DS9. A bit of tweaking and I could see it working as a TNG story with Data standing in for Quark (with the hook there involving Data's emotional(ish) concern for the pieces, similar to Quark showing that he's a bit of a softie).

amateurhour

All Star Trek is perfect.

It's like the Bible, no notes, one and done.

Hydropolo

amateurhour wrote: »

All Star Trek is perfect.

It's like the Bible, no notes, one and done.

Except that one episode....

Naphtali

Hydropolo wrote: »

amateurhour wrote: »

All Star Trek is perfect.

It's like the Bible, no notes, one and done.

Except that one episode....

These Are The Voyages of the Naked Now to the Threshold of Code of Honor: Part 1

Commander Zoom

"Profit and Lace"

mrondeau

Commander Zoom wrote: »

"Profit and Lace"

Strange. Those look like words, individually, but for some reason the trigram is incomprehensible. Even the bigrams are somehow carrying less meaning than the unigram.
I think there's a thesis in there, but for some reason I don't think any ethics review board would approve studying that problem.

Albino Bunny

I wonder how many episodes would make up 'the worst list' if everyone had to anonymously put in their pick.

Obviously lots of Threshold, Profit & Lace and Code of Honour.

But I'd bet you'd get up to at least a whole seasons worth of episodes someone calls the absolute worst Trek episode.

Cambiata

Commander Zoom wrote: »

Hevach wrote: »

The best part is at the end, when after all the episode they realize there was never any danger or reason for fear. "Yeah but OUR games occasionally go haywire and eat people, so you can't just put us in yours." "Well that sounds like a you problem, and that's horrible, I am so glad we didn't let Quark pick the game."

The holodeck hostage situation is such a staple even at that point that the audience and characters are primed to assume it's a life or death situation, and so shocked it isn't nobody even makes any of the still valid criticisms about informed consent.

I unironically love that episode just because it calls out how stupid that trope is (and not just in Trek, either).

You're always getting people trapped inside of games!

HerrCron

autono-wally, erotibot300

I... don't like Picard. Something feels wrong about every episode so far.

override367

autono-wally, erotibot300 wrote: »

I... don't like Picard. Something feels wrong about every episode so far.

it's the fact that Patrick Stewart is fully CGI but they actually practically built real starships, it's very glaring

Commander Zoom

Finally got someone who we've been introducing to Trek over the last couple of years to watch Galaxy Quest. This may actually be the best time for them to see it, now that they've seen several of the shows, but especially because of what I immediately thought of when I watched a certain scene in Picard S3 E4:

"And what you fail to realize is that my ship is dragging a big rock."

Hydropolo

It's bizarre how much of an affectionate parody that movie turns out to be and it keeps on giving. Shatner and Allen are cut from a not-unsimilar cloth, much like Nimoy and Rickman.

evilmrhenry

override367 wrote: »

autono-wally, erotibot300 wrote: »

I... don't like Picard. Something feels wrong about every episode so far.

it's the fact that Patrick Stewart is fully CGI but they actually practically built real starships, it's very glaring

Now, what you might think override said is that they used real models and practical effects for the starships. They used real starships.

Space Pickle

override367 wrote: »

autono-wally, erotibot300 wrote: »

I... don't like Picard. Something feels wrong about every episode so far.

it's the fact that Patrick Stewart is fully CGI but they actually practically built real starships, it's very glaring

he's not cgi he's a muppet controlled by a team of muppeteers

CroakerBC

Space Pickle wrote: »

override367 wrote: »

autono-wally, erotibot300 wrote: »

I... don't like Picard. Something feels wrong about every episode so far.

it's the fact that Patrick Stewart is fully CGI but they actually practically built real starships, it's very glaring

he's not cgi he's a muppet controlled by a team of muppeteers

Oh, like Raccaccoonie.

override367

he's entirely AI generated

Hydropolo

override367 wrote: »

he's entirely AI generated

So... Capt-JLP

Casual

autono-wally, erotibot300 wrote: »

I... don't like Picard. Something feels wrong about every episode so far.

I think this just demonstrates how unwinnable a task the show runners have. With S3 (at least so far) they've finally made the show that people who wanted the Next TNG wanted... buuuut now everyone else hates it. They've gotten back me and the RLM guys and lost everyone else. I'm really starting to feel for them.

Thirith

@Casual: I've not watched any of S3 yet (planning to do so once it's done), so this is a genuine question - would you say that S3 has better writing/plotting, or is it primarily the benefit of having something of a TNG reunion that makes you enjoy the season?