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2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
ChaosHat wrote: »
Thought experiment: What changes would need to be made to the game in order for you to be given the opportunity to know (or better approximate) what is in your opponent's deck before the match starts?

I'm thinking that there probably need to be more cards per deck, just to expand the probabilities.

Why would this be a thing you'd want to do?

It's a thought experiment. Hence why I called it a thought experiment.

To experiment with thoughts.

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Registered User regular
ChaosHat wrote: »
discrider wrote: »
ChaosHat wrote: »
If infinite players are better than non infinite players and you have to play them to be infinite, how does anyone hit infinite for the first time?

They play better cards largely.

So the players who hit it with pool 3 Sera Miracle are what, savants?

Yes. Or more likely, they were playing at the early pool 3 CL.

Doubt you'd be able to do it now, at high pool 3 CL.
Shuri hides behind Cosmo/Armor and Thanos cheats out too much power reliably, as well as Leeching your hand.

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Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
ChaosHat wrote: »
Thought experiment: What changes would need to be made to the game in order for you to be given the opportunity to know (or better approximate) what is in your opponent's deck before the match starts?

I'm thinking that there probably need to be more cards per deck, just to expand the probabilities.

Why would this be a thing you'd want to do?

It's a thought experiment. Hence why I called it a thought experiment.

To experiment with thoughts.

I understand the concept of a thought experiment but I think it would fundamentally make the game worse so I'm asking what the value of the experiment is.
discrider wrote: »
ChaosHat wrote: »
discrider wrote: »
ChaosHat wrote: »
If infinite players are better than non infinite players and you have to play them to be infinite, how does anyone hit infinite for the first time?

They play better cards largely.

So the players who hit it with pool 3 Sera Miracle are what, savants?

Yes. Or more likely, they were playing at the early pool 3 CL.

Doubt you'd be able to do it now, at high pool 3 CL.
Shuri hides behind Cosmo/Armor and Thanos cheats out too much power reliably, as well as Leeching your hand.

I mean isn't it convenient that all the people who have infinite have some reason that you couldn't possibly replicate? They're either savants, have better cards, or are playing at a lower CL? And all these people are just keeping the little guy under their thumb after hitting infinite, despite the fact that I've spewed more cubes than I've earned playing jank.

Speaking from experience, many infinite players are not very good at this game and they're probably grinding the fuck out of extremely low cube margin games based on how atrocious they are at snapping.

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2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
ChaosHat wrote: »
ChaosHat wrote: »
Thought experiment: What changes would need to be made to the game in order for you to be given the opportunity to know (or better approximate) what is in your opponent's deck before the match starts?

I'm thinking that there probably need to be more cards per deck, just to expand the probabilities.

Why would this be a thing you'd want to do?

It's a thought experiment. Hence why I called it a thought experiment.

To experiment with thoughts.

I understand the concept of a thought experiment but I think it would fundamentally make the game worse so I'm asking what the value of the experiment is.

/Ms. Marvel Thumbs Up

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Registered User regular
The problem with most card games is that decks tend to be 40 or more cards so it can be tricky to even draw what you need. It's the one thing Snap does well is that with 12 cards you're pretty much gonna draw atleast some of the cards you need to make a play. And even if not, you have stuff like Lockjaw or Jubilee to get stuff straight outta the deck onto the board. I'm down for custom rulesets tho, custom games can keep games alive for years.

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Registered User regular
Welp, I managed to Series 3 complete at 3214.

Final card was Mystique. (though I got her variant in the bundle earlier).

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Not a doctor Tree townRegistered User regular
Geez. I’m 3502 and still have 1 to go.

Have I just been getting more S4 and/or variants?

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Registered User regular
ChaosHat wrote: »
ChaosHat wrote: »
Thought experiment: What changes would need to be made to the game in order for you to be given the opportunity to know (or better approximate) what is in your opponent's deck before the match starts?

I'm thinking that there probably need to be more cards per deck, just to expand the probabilities.

Why would this be a thing you'd want to do?

It's a thought experiment. Hence why I called it a thought experiment.

To experiment with thoughts.

I understand the concept of a thought experiment but I think it would fundamentally make the game worse so I'm asking what the value of the experiment is.
discrider wrote: »
ChaosHat wrote: »
discrider wrote: »
ChaosHat wrote: »
If infinite players are better than non infinite players and you have to play them to be infinite, how does anyone hit infinite for the first time?

They play better cards largely.

So the players who hit it with pool 3 Sera Miracle are what, savants?

Yes. Or more likely, they were playing at the early pool 3 CL.

Doubt you'd be able to do it now, at high pool 3 CL.
Shuri hides behind Cosmo/Armor and Thanos cheats out too much power reliably, as well as Leeching your hand.

I mean isn't it convenient that all the people who have infinite have some reason that you couldn't possibly replicate? They're either savants, have better cards, or are playing at a lower CL? And all these people are just keeping the little guy under their thumb after hitting infinite, despite the fact that I've spewed more cubes than I've earned playing jank.

Speaking from experience, many infinite players are not very good at this game and they're probably grinding the fuck out of extremely low cube margin games based on how atrocious they are at snapping.

Have people managed infinite this season with Sera control against Shuri/Thanos?
Because I tried Sera control with Hazmat/Cage/Mary and couldn't get it going.

The list I stole also had Zabu in it, so that it could play Enchantress/Mary/Shang-chi.
Which I don't have.

I haven't tried plain Sera Control, but I do believe it won't work, based on playing it before, as said above.

It also requires you to play better than other decks, in general.
Just to control priority and recognise snap opportunities.

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Come on upstairs we're having a partyRegistered User regular
Thought experiment: What changes would need to be made to the game in order for you to be given the opportunity to know (or better approximate) what is in your opponent's deck before the match starts?

I'm thinking that there probably need to be more cards per deck, just to expand the probabilities.

I already know what's in my opponent's deck with more accuracy than I would like by turn 3 or 4, can't imagine wanting/needing to see their actual full list.

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Not a doctor Tree townRegistered User regular
I’m working with the Sera deck that was posted in the last thread, I think.

Killmonger and Enchantress are pretty good against Thanos. Shang-Chi can sometimes save a lane against Shuri decks.
# (1) The Hood
# (1) Nova
# (2) Angela
# (2) Carnage
# (2) Mysterio
# (2) Lizard
# (3) Bishop
# (3) Killmonger
# (4) Shang-Chi
# (4) Enchantress
# (4) Rescue
# (5) Sera
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSG9vZCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTXlzdGVyaW8ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkxpemFyZCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiS2lsbG1vbmdlciJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2hhbmdDaGkifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkVuY2hhbnRyZXNzIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJSZXNjdWUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik5vdmEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJpc2hvcCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQW5nZWxhIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTZXJhIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJDYXJuYWdlIn1dfQ==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.

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Registered User regular
edited March 2023
How's it going for you?

Tried to get my good stuff electro deck working again for the location.
Lose cubes because of an 8 cubes loss to danger room killing my 'need anything to stick here to win' card.
Grr.

But the deck definitely needs some better gameplan than Sandman for Thanos, Shang-chi and Doc Ock for Shuri.

discrider on
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You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
Thought experiment: What changes would need to be made to the game in order for you to be given the opportunity to know (or better approximate) what is in your opponent's deck before the match starts?

I'm thinking that there probably need to be more cards per deck, just to expand the probabilities.

You’d probably have to do a system like they implemented for direct games to make a game go possibly multiple rounds as you trade health for information

Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Registered User regular
Opponent played Galactus on Turn 5, killing their Bar Sinister-ed Sabretooth.
The remainining location was Onslaught's Citadel. And on turn 4 I dropped Wong, and on Turn 5 Black Panther.

Opponent does not Instant Retreat. They snap on 6. It is entirely clear they have Shang Chi.

But it was worth losing 4 cubes to drop Odin on turn 6 and see Tchalla hit 4,194,304 power before Chi casually destroyes him.

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Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
edited March 2023
discrider wrote: »
ChaosHat wrote: »
ChaosHat wrote: »
Thought experiment: What changes would need to be made to the game in order for you to be given the opportunity to know (or better approximate) what is in your opponent's deck before the match starts?

I'm thinking that there probably need to be more cards per deck, just to expand the probabilities.

Why would this be a thing you'd want to do?

It's a thought experiment. Hence why I called it a thought experiment.

To experiment with thoughts.

I understand the concept of a thought experiment but I think it would fundamentally make the game worse so I'm asking what the value of the experiment is.
discrider wrote: »
ChaosHat wrote: »
discrider wrote: »
ChaosHat wrote: »
If infinite players are better than non infinite players and you have to play them to be infinite, how does anyone hit infinite for the first time?

They play better cards largely.

So the players who hit it with pool 3 Sera Miracle are what, savants?

Yes. Or more likely, they were playing at the early pool 3 CL.

Doubt you'd be able to do it now, at high pool 3 CL.
Shuri hides behind Cosmo/Armor and Thanos cheats out too much power reliably, as well as Leeching your hand.

I mean isn't it convenient that all the people who have infinite have some reason that you couldn't possibly replicate? They're either savants, have better cards, or are playing at a lower CL? And all these people are just keeping the little guy under their thumb after hitting infinite, despite the fact that I've spewed more cubes than I've earned playing jank.

Speaking from experience, many infinite players are not very good at this game and they're probably grinding the fuck out of extremely low cube margin games based on how atrocious they are at snapping.

Have people managed infinite this season with Sera control against Shuri/Thanos?
Because I tried Sera control with Hazmat/Cage/Mary and couldn't get it going.

The list I stole also had Zabu in it, so that it could play Enchantress/Mary/Shang-chi.
Which I don't have.

I haven't tried plain Sera Control, but I do believe it won't work, based on playing it before, as said above.

It also requires you to play better than other decks, in general.
Just to control priority and recognise snap opportunities.

Cozy just actually posted a video about it being a good climb to infinite deck. The problem with Sera Miracle is "DEAD TO LEECH LUL" but like...all decks are. That's the "dies to doom blade" of this game.

I think they key to climbing with any non Thanos deck is you just make sure all Thanos games are 1 cube, maximum two. That means you're basically out if they snap. Which is boring and dumb and shitty. I have read a lot of people saying that works though, and it makes sense anyways. As I said, many players are bad and they'll only snap after the Leech...or maybe never.

Or there are many situations where you can analyze the board and realize they're fucked after Leeching because he's such a negative tempo play. A lot of people just run him out "LOL I WIN BUTTON GG"

Marvel Snap Zone has a regular infinite decks of the week post which is a good way to see what other players are doing that isn't just top meta shit. You'll see some lists in there where a CL 3k+ player made infinite using only pool 2 cards.

ChaosHat on
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Registered User regular
Looking at those decks, looks like Sera control has included Aero now.

But mostly I see Zabu/Darkhawk, which I don't have.

Stole some guy's Thor deck though, so rolling with that before I figure out how Aero works in Sera.
Stealing decklists being the other half of playing better cards.

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Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
edited March 2023
discrider wrote: »
Looking at those decks, looks like Sera control has included Aero now.

But mostly I see Zabu/Darkhawk, which I don't have.

Stole some guy's Thor deck though, so rolling with that before I figure out how Aero works in Sera.
Stealing decklists being the other half of playing better cards.

It's not really stealing decks at all. Nobody owns the patent on this shit. Complaints about "net decking" is incidentally one of the thing I hate about card gamer complaints across...literally every card game. It's unnecessarily elitist and gatekeeping.

I never hear anyone say "lol you looked up that combo online" in Street Fighter or "nice copied build" in League. It's a very weird card game specific thing and people should stop.

ChaosHat on
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Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
edited March 2023

Every time

Coinage on
Happiness is within reach!
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Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
ChaosHat wrote: »
discrider wrote: »
Looking at those decks, looks like Sera control has included Aero now.

But mostly I see Zabu/Darkhawk, which I don't have.

Stole some guy's Thor deck though, so rolling with that before I figure out how Aero works in Sera.
Stealing decklists being the other half of playing better cards.

It's not really stealing decks at all. Nobody owns the patent on this shit. Complaints about "net decking" is incidentally one of the thing I hate about card gamer complaints across...literally every card game. It's unnecessarily elitist and gatekeeping.

I never hear anyone say "lol you looked up that combo online" in Street Fighter or "nice copied build" in League. It's a very weird card game specific thing and people should stop.

My personal downfall is netdecking and then saying to myself “Nah, I can improve on that” and then swapping out what’s probably a key card.

Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
Twitch: akThera
Steam: Thera
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Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
akjak wrote: »
ChaosHat wrote: »
discrider wrote: »
Looking at those decks, looks like Sera control has included Aero now.

But mostly I see Zabu/Darkhawk, which I don't have.

Stole some guy's Thor deck though, so rolling with that before I figure out how Aero works in Sera.
Stealing decklists being the other half of playing better cards.

It's not really stealing decks at all. Nobody owns the patent on this shit. Complaints about "net decking" is incidentally one of the thing I hate about card gamer complaints across...literally every card game. It's unnecessarily elitist and gatekeeping.

I never hear anyone say "lol you looked up that combo online" in Street Fighter or "nice copied build" in League. It's a very weird card game specific thing and people should stop.

My personal downfall is netdecking and then saying to myself “Nah, I can improve on that” and then swapping out what’s probably a key card.

I mean that is what I LOVE about Snap though. My Shuri Marvel list is me taking out Vision and saying "Hmmm, I think Marvel is better into Aero." And it was! You can change one card and have a huge effect on deckbuilding. And since deck sizes are so small you can very easily see the result of those changes quickly.

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You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular

I hit a new four digit record

Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
ChaosHat wrote: »
akjak wrote: »
ChaosHat wrote: »
discrider wrote: »
Looking at those decks, looks like Sera control has included Aero now.

But mostly I see Zabu/Darkhawk, which I don't have.

Stole some guy's Thor deck though, so rolling with that before I figure out how Aero works in Sera.
Stealing decklists being the other half of playing better cards.

It's not really stealing decks at all. Nobody owns the patent on this shit. Complaints about "net decking" is incidentally one of the thing I hate about card gamer complaints across...literally every card game. It's unnecessarily elitist and gatekeeping.

I never hear anyone say "lol you looked up that combo online" in Street Fighter or "nice copied build" in League. It's a very weird card game specific thing and people should stop.

My personal downfall is netdecking and then saying to myself “Nah, I can improve on that” and then swapping out what’s probably a key card.

I mean that is what I LOVE about Snap though. My Shuri Marvel list is me taking out Vision and saying "Hmmm, I think Marvel is better into Aero." And it was! You can change one card and have a huge effect on deckbuilding. And since deck sizes are so small you can very easily see the result of those changes quickly.

I’m assuming @akjak would do something like me and replace Shuri in a Shuri deck. 😅

Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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Registered User regular
ChaosHat wrote: »
discrider wrote: »
Looking at those decks, looks like Sera control has included Aero now.

But mostly I see Zabu/Darkhawk, which I don't have.

Stole some guy's Thor deck though, so rolling with that before I figure out how Aero works in Sera.
Stealing decklists being the other half of playing better cards.

It's not really stealing decks at all. Nobody owns the patent on this shit. Complaints about "net decking" is incidentally one of the thing I hate about card gamer complaints across...literally every card game. It's unnecessarily elitist and gatekeeping.

I never hear anyone say "lol you looked up that combo online" in Street Fighter or "nice copied build" in League. It's a very weird card game specific thing and people should stop.

Eh.

I try to build decks and then they get absolutely bodied by actually effective but ubiquitous decks, perfected by the multitude.
Which is why the time reduction in featured location windows makes me sad.
But also why I say I'm stealing decks; I don't actually want to win, I just want to build dumb stuff.
And me net-decking really circumvents that.

I'd probably be much happier if there wasn't that counter at the end of the game that keeps going down.

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Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
discrider wrote: »
ChaosHat wrote: »
discrider wrote: »
Looking at those decks, looks like Sera control has included Aero now.

But mostly I see Zabu/Darkhawk, which I don't have.

Stole some guy's Thor deck though, so rolling with that before I figure out how Aero works in Sera.
Stealing decklists being the other half of playing better cards.

It's not really stealing decks at all. Nobody owns the patent on this shit. Complaints about "net decking" is incidentally one of the thing I hate about card gamer complaints across...literally every card game. It's unnecessarily elitist and gatekeeping.

I never hear anyone say "lol you looked up that combo online" in Street Fighter or "nice copied build" in League. It's a very weird card game specific thing and people should stop.

Eh.

I try to build decks and then they get absolutely bodied by actually effective but ubiquitous decks, perfected by the multitude.
Which is why the time reduction in featured location windows makes me sad.
But also why I say I'm stealing decks; I don't actually want to win, I just want to build dumb stuff.
And me net-decking really circumvents that.

I'd probably be much happier if there wasn't that counter at the end of the game that keeps going down.

Yeah. You can feel however you want about it but the mindset that decks are stolen, owned, or somehow better if they're self made is one that I think is incredibly toxic. Brewing and playing are two different skillsets and joys and some people don't have the time or ability to do that. I know you're saying it to refer to yourself only but it's one of those things that I think can make other people feel worse.

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2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
Yeah, there's no expectation that you should be creating your own decks from whole cloth. So calling it "stealing" when you're just using a deck that was created by someone else (which was itself probably freely published by said creator) is a weird way of looking at things.

Like, how would you even police that sort of thing internally? If you play against a Shuri deck before you come up with it yourself are you forever prevented from ever playing that exact Shuri deck - even though you don't even know what all the cards in the deck were? Or are you in the clear if you change just one or two cards, because then it's not "stealing" anymore so much as it is "getting inspiration"?

If that's how you want to look at it then that's entirely your prerogative but IMHO it's wholly unnecessary. Even if you take the perspective that you find joy in building new decks - why is it a prerequisite that you can't ever use any ideas from anyone else as part of that process? I can't think of any artistic endeavor where the expectation is that you just come up with something brand new. Everything from Impressionism to jazz was built by a community of people working together (and sometimes competing) from broadly common foundations.

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Queen of Blades Registered User regular
Any time you see a card, your forbidden from playing it ever again. Those are the rules, sorry.

Battle.net ID: kime#1822
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
I mean, look. The card pool is small enough that there are only so many ways to combine them that make sense.

You “homebrew” deck is, I guarantee, also posted 3626 times on both snap fan and zone.

Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
Twitch: akThera
Steam: Thera
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Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
Oh I'm a little late to posting this but there's an invitational tournament that's been releasing VODs for about a week. Pretty good games, well casted overall.

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Registered User regular
akjak wrote: »
I mean, look. The card pool is small enough that there are only so many ways to combine them that make sense.

You “homebrew” deck is, I guarantee, also posted 3626 times on both snap fan and zone.

*Looks up Cerebgo*
No-one appears to be using Quake?

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Registered User regular
lol. Was playing against someone setting up Gambit/Wong/Odin.

I had Nimrod and Wolverine on the board.

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Queen of Blades Registered User regular
lol. Was playing against someone setting up Gambit/Wong/Odin.

I had Nimrod and Wolverine on the board.

Ouch haha. But Gambit/Wong/Odin is my favorite deck to lose to I think.

Battle.net ID: kime#1822
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
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Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
I always wondered if the kibler I ran into on the ladder was the real one. I guess I don’t really know still but at least it might have been.

Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
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Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
KafkaAU wrote: »
I always wondered if the kibler I ran into on the ladder was the real one. I guess I don’t really know still but at least it might have been.

He probably is. I've bumped into him a couple times. The first time I thought it was a goof but then I saw him streaming a few days later with the same name and avatar. This was pre name changes.

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Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
I forgot to screenshot but a District X Shanna won me the 8 cube game to get to 90 because it gave me quinjet and sunspot, which my opponent forgot about so the sunspot lane tied with the discount. Buy Shanna stonks

Happiness is within reach!
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Registered User regular
I had a match yesterday where the guy would have won with his Sunspot by doing nothing on either turn 5 or 6 but instead tried to beat me on points in the other lane and lost.

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Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
You’d win more games than you think playing only a Sunspot and an Infinaut.

Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
Twitch: akThera
Steam: Thera
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Detroit Machine Guns Fort MyersRegistered User regular
Netdecking isn't a problem because at least half the people looking up the best decks don't actually understand how to play them right and half of the people who do understand how to play it, still mess it up when they're playing it.

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Registered User regular
akjak wrote: »
You’d win more games than you think playing only a Sunspot and an Infinaut.

Often if I can’t make a full deck around one strategy I just throw sunspot, infinaut and shehulk in there

Just a little win condition all on its own

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Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
Maybe an Armor to protect Sunspot or is that +2 power loss not worth the safety?

Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
edited March 2023
MNC Dover wrote: »
Maybe an Armor to protect Sunspot or is that +2 power loss not worth the safety?

The Armor is more power in that lane than soaking on the Sunspot (+3 vs +2).

ChaosHat on
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Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
I object to the thread title. The economy is different, but honestly better than most CCGs out there