The Decline of Western [Twitter]ization

Preacher

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyKdjcm3MLk

Corgis have this weird like extra yowl they do, I thought mine were unique in annoying me with it, but apparently its learned behavior in all corgis. "I'm going to keep yowling and you will notice me!!!"

Lanz

Lanz wrote: »

Munkus Beaver wrote: »

To put it simple: the nihilism effects me. The attitude of nothing we do matters let’s just accelerate to the end causes me constant psychic damage when I am trying to keep my head above water. I have seen it effect others, I have seen the zeitgeist around here shift to pessimism and nihilism at every opportunity, at every possible chance to celebrate a victory. I have watched people lose their hope and repeat nihilistic rhetoric as nauseum. I hate it, I hate the way it feeds into itself and creates a toxic environment for any pushback.

I like this place and most of the people in it. I tend to agree with most all leftist political alignments that we discuss here and have been incredibly thankful for how much this place has contributed to my growth as a person and made me better than I was before. So when it gets obsessive about the nihilism of the political process that also has an effect.

I said at the start this aspect is the aspect I hate the most about election season and I mean it. I hate having these arguments, these discussions with people I respect that end up sapping the life from any attempt to make a difference. And that’s my only goal here: to try and improve the zeitgeist of the forums slightly so that it is not all doom and gloom every time the whiff of something political comes around.

Because your nihilism may not effect you, but it effects others here.

so I think it is, again, important to address just what "nihilism" is in this case.

As Dark Primus, myself, and others have said, repeatedly lamening the uselessness and railing against the electoral system as our primary, and often sole, method of affecting change is not nihilism. Like, I need to ask you Munkus: how familiar are you with the direct action movements of the 20th century? How familiar are you with the restlessness and burgeoning revolutionary atmosphere during the great depression? How familiar are you with the history of marginalized individuals repeatedly putting their lives at stake not at ballot boxes in the civil rights era, but on the streets?

Because all these things? They weren't the result of the kind of politics that pundits, wonks and mainstream political hobbyists treat as The Way things Work, some Mr. Smith Goes to Washingtonian, Sorkinian dream where the people get together to elect the right people together and solve the problems of the day.

But that is the way we're conditioned to think about politics. Think about every protest in the past few years, and how much fear that they're not protesting "the right way" or that they might descend into rioting which will somehow delegitimize the movement, etc.

This perspective is one that has been deliberately constructed in the decades following what we commonly understand as America's Civil Rights Era, and one I would argue that is deliberately meant to defang further progress, which we can define as the redistribution of power from Racial and Economic elites to the mass populace, particularly for it's most marginalized groups. The reality of the 20th century of American progress is one characterized by mass disruption of the status quo in the name of taking that power back to the people, and in some cases, yes, the threat that the oppressed would not allow themselves to meekly submit to the violence of a racist and economically oppressive state. It is a history of massive strikes, of strikers being murdered by corporations, their agents and the state itself (remember, of course, the Battle of Blair Mountain, where mine owners and local authorities collaborated to kill miners, up to and including bombing them with improvised bombs made from surplus WWI munitions), of the cops andwhite mobs repeatedly beating, torturing, killing black people, of razing their sections of town, and of black resistance taking up literal arms to say they would no longer be murdered by the state and the mobs without a fight. Of queer people just trying to live their lives, to be raided by police for nothing more than being queer in public spaces, and answering back by rioting right back at the pigs who saw their lives as degeneracy. Of rumors and tensions of Russian-style October revolutions in the US in the wake of the Great Depression, which pressured FDR and the corporations of the day to relenting, as imperfectly as it was, in the construction of The New Deal.

This is a history that is glossed over, ignored, whitewashed and denied by the way we teach american history to most people. You're lucky to learn about it even in college. It's not the big fancy arc of American Brand Justice that Great Men and Great Politicians brought to us that we're regularly taught. And its because it's not pretty, it's not enobling to the American identity in the way that most people prefer because at every turn it raises a finger at America and questions it's commitments to freedom and democracy, pointing to a repeat history of turmoil and struggle to achieve the ends that were so supposedly promised to us at the birth of the nation. and I think part of the problem is, when you ignore that history, and you try to teach it as a more power-friendly version of events where these workers and activists suffered so badly that in turn it made certain members of the oppressor have a miraculous turn of heart and Mr. Smith their way into passing civil rights legislation, you create the impression of a system that never existed, and people because more despondent and frustrated when that system turns out to not work in the present either (because, of course, it was a lie about how things worked). It creates the ideological foundation behind "Vote Blue no matter who;" a foundation of sand on a beach under threat by a storm.

it isn't nihilistic, it isn't doom and gloom, to acknowledge that reality, to accept that it is still the place we find ourselves in today. Do people here want Trump and the rest of the fascists of the GOP in charge? No, of course not. But we recognize as well how the leadership of the Democratic Party are themselves part of the system of oppression, both historically and presently, that our forebears have fought against, that our salvation does not come from electing The Right Democrat, who will fix everything, because they belong to the systems of oppression that are crushing us. You look at the business histories of these people and they're little different frmo that of the GOP, hands deep in every exploitative and oppressive capitalist industry in the country. You look at their records and by and large, it is a record of trying to preserve at turn after turn the systems that seek to crush the innocent for being different, from being from the wrong racial or ethnic group, for not coming into the country the right (white) way.

It isn't nihilistic to acknowledge these people will not save us. It isn't nihilistic to confront that these people barely even want to be a meaningful bulwark against attacks against us.

Yes, it is dispiriting. Yes, it is knocking you on your ass. I can see it knocking you on yours right now, metaphorically speaking.

But then we have to pick ourselves back up. That is the key. What you're experiencing isn't nihilism, it's disillusionment. And the hardest thing once an illusion has been broken is finding your way in this new, seemingly changed world. But that's why history is important, that's why the struggle of so many labor and marginalized groups is important to study, to learn, internalize and push forward into the future. But we can't win if we just keep clinging to the methods of change that the people oppressing us tell us are the ones that are okay to use, because those are not the methods that will liberate us from their oppression, their hate, their violence against us.

There is hope to be had yet, but it is not found in "make sure you vote." It is in banding together as a collective, of helping each other when and where we can with what we have, it is standing up for ourselves against the violence being meted against us, it is forming bonds strong enough that show the ruling oppressor that we will not be cowed, that we will not be struck down for being who we are, for trying to live lives of dignity, of love, of growth that are true to us. For wanting to live a life where we are more than just the replaceable cogs of a machine that drains our lives and turns it into wealth we'll never see for masters we'll never know.

addendum to the above:

I think part of what I have a problem with is liberals act like Trump is the worst thing that can ever happen to this country, and will castigate you for not backing whatever democrat goes up against him, particularly because of that candidate's own past and present policies that achieve many of the same outcomes as Trump pursued in office.

and I cannot square that with the utter lack of action.

I know Trump is bad, I know he's a nightmare. I've seen what he's done, and what he says he's gonna do when he's back in power.

But no one acts on that. Liberal scolding about trump is about trheatening with you of the hell of a resurgent fascist movement and then, when that fascist and his fascist fellows take power, going "well, nevertheless, he's in charge now,"

What resistance does liberalism actually offer to fascism? What do your champions do to free the oppressed? To resist their tyrannies? If Trump does win, if he passes national bans on abortion services and medications, on trans healthcare for those medically transitioning, will your champions help them get the medicines and services they need? Will your vaunted public servants protect and ferry away the doctors and helpers who the police will target under those laws? What stands will actually be taken against the fascist state you (and I agree, it will be a fascist state!) say will come to power!

Where will your champions of the Democratic Party stand in the new underground railroads? In protecting literal fugitives from the power of the state just because they dressed in the "wrong" set of clothing in public, or used the "wrong" bathroom? What will you and they do for the people who came to this country the "wrong" way and got reported to Immigration Services for deportation?

The liberal desperately wants to stop the fascist state frmo coming into being at the ballot box, but yet acquiesce to it once it wins. And then blame those to their left for "letting" it happen, as their activists and champions are imprisoned and murdered in resistance to it all. You can see this in the construction of the history of the civil rights movement, that kind of protestant fetishization of ennobled suffering; the rightness of submitting to even corrupt authority, to demonstrate your innocence and the state's oppression. And I think this in turn conditions the liberal mindset to think that you must submit to authority, even when that authority is unjust oppression. So again I'll ask: when the fascist state comes, and indeed in many ways it is already here: how will you resist, or at least help those who are under the jackboot to resist?

Munkus Beaver

Lanz I have more to say when I get home but in short: yes, I am extremely aware and my frustration comes from the utter discounting of the importance of who is in power. This discounting is where the feeling of nihilism comes from WRT rhetoric.

Lanz

Munkus Beaver wrote: »

Lanz I have more to say when I get home but in short: yes, I am extremely aware and my frustration comes from the utter discounting of the importance of who is in power. This discounting is where the feeling of nihilism comes from WRT rhetoric.

Then I feel like you're sitll not fully grasping this: everyone is quite aware who is in power. And we have seen the way that they continue to oppress the weak, the innocent, and abandon us to those who would murder us in the street if they feel for a second that they'll get away with it.

Maddoc

Liberals still think they're gonna catch the fascists in a logical fallacy and they'll suddenly vanish back to the fifth dimension like they tricked Mr. Mxyzptlk into saying his name backward.

All they have is "Look at what these assholes are doing", and then sit there and wait for the adults in the room to act, but there's no more adults, it's just everyone going "Look at these assholes" and waiting.

Maddoc

Man, remember when kids in cages was a big voting push?

Fun times

ArcTangent

Preacher wrote: »

Corgis have this weird like extra yowl they do, I thought mine were unique in annoying me with it, but apparently its learned behavior in all corgis. "I'm going to keep yowling and you will notice me!!!"

It's a behavior in most of the spitz breeds. Huskies and shiba inu are notorious for it too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqctxa_YGxk

Preacher

Spitz breeds?

Kelor

Maddoc wrote: »

Man, remember when kids in cages was a big voting push?

Fun times

Was this while it was happening under Obama, Trump or Biden?

PiptheFair

Preacher wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyKdjcm3MLk

Corgis have this weird like extra yowl they do, I thought mine were unique in annoying me with it, but apparently its learned behavior in all corgis. "I'm going to keep yowling and you will notice me!!!"

Mate that’s a loaf of bread

Lanz

https://twitter.com/edburmila/status/1651344143761768449?s=46

Feinstein’s indefinite absence makes Joe Manchin the decisive vote again. This Republican-led measure just passed by a single vote.

Folks I’m starting to doubt the “shingles” cover story

Thinking for no reason of all the snide stuff American politicians said in the 80s about how the USSR was paralyzed by their ancient, feeble, wheezing leaders governing half-awake from hospital beds

Uriel

One of my neighbors has some kind of Shiba and it's really cute but I haven't met that dog because I don't understand dogs

ArcTangent

Preacher wrote: »

Spitz breeds?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitz

Northern origin, fox-like face, small pointed ears, double coat, back-curled tail, etc.

Polaritie

ArcTangent wrote: »

Preacher wrote: »

Spitz breeds?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitz

Northern origin, fox-like face, small pointed ears, double coat, back-curled tail, etc.

AKA adorable.

Tef

Lanz wrote: »

Munkus Beaver wrote: »

To put it simple: the nihilism effects me. The attitude of nothing we do matters let’s just accelerate to the end causes me constant psychic damage when I am trying to keep my head above water. I have seen it effect others, I have seen the zeitgeist around here shift to pessimism and nihilism at every opportunity, at every possible chance to celebrate a victory. I have watched people lose their hope and repeat nihilistic rhetoric as nauseum. I hate it, I hate the way it feeds into itself and creates a toxic environment for any pushback.

I like this place and most of the people in it. I tend to agree with most all leftist political alignments that we discuss here and have been incredibly thankful for how much this place has contributed to my growth as a person and made me better than I was before. So when it gets obsessive about the nihilism of the political process that also has an effect.

I said at the start this aspect is the aspect I hate the most about election season and I mean it. I hate having these arguments, these discussions with people I respect that end up sapping the life from any attempt to make a difference. And that’s my only goal here: to try and improve the zeitgeist of the forums slightly so that it is not all doom and gloom every time the whiff of something political comes around.

Because your nihilism may not effect you, but it effects others here.

so I think it is, again, important to address just what "nihilism" is in this case.

As Dark Primus, myself, and others have said, repeatedly lamening the uselessness and railing against the electoral system as our primary, and often sole, method of affecting change is not nihilism. Like, I need to ask you Munkus: how familiar are you with the direct action movements of the 20th century? How familiar are you with the restlessness and burgeoning revolutionary atmosphere during the great depression? How familiar are you with the history of marginalized individuals repeatedly putting their lives at stake not at ballot boxes in the civil rights era, but on the streets?

Because all these things? They weren't the result of the kind of politics that pundits, wonks and mainstream political hobbyists treat as The Way things Work, some Mr. Smith Goes to Washingtonian, Sorkinian dream where the people get together to elect the right people together and solve the problems of the day.

But that is the way we're conditioned to think about politics. Think about every protest in the past few years, and how much fear that they're not protesting "the right way" or that they might descend into rioting which will somehow delegitimize the movement, etc.

This perspective is one that has been deliberately constructed in the decades following what we commonly understand as America's Civil Rights Era, and one I would argue that is deliberately meant to defang further progress, which we can define as the redistribution of power from Racial and Economic elites to the mass populace, particularly for it's most marginalized groups. The reality of the 20th century of American progress is one characterized by mass disruption of the status quo in the name of taking that power back to the people, and in some cases, yes, the threat that the oppressed would not allow themselves to meekly submit to the violence of a racist and economically oppressive state. It is a history of massive strikes, of strikers being murdered by corporations, their agents and the state itself (remember, of course, the Battle of Blair Mountain, where mine owners and local authorities collaborated to kill miners, up to and including bombing them with improvised bombs made from surplus WWI munitions), of the cops andwhite mobs repeatedly beating, torturing, killing black people, of razing their sections of town, and of black resistance taking up literal arms to say they would no longer be murdered by the state and the mobs without a fight. Of queer people just trying to live their lives, to be raided by police for nothing more than being queer in public spaces, and answering back by rioting right back at the pigs who saw their lives as degeneracy. Of rumors and tensions of Russian-style October revolutions in the US in the wake of the Great Depression, which pressured FDR and the corporations of the day to relenting, as imperfectly as it was, in the construction of The New Deal.

This is a history that is glossed over, ignored, whitewashed and denied by the way we teach american history to most people. You're lucky to learn about it even in college. It's not the big fancy arc of American Brand Justice that Great Men and Great Politicians brought to us that we're regularly taught. And its because it's not pretty, it's not enobling to the American identity in the way that most people prefer because at every turn it raises a finger at America and questions it's commitments to freedom and democracy, pointing to a repeat history of turmoil and struggle to achieve the ends that were so supposedly promised to us at the birth of the nation. and I think part of the problem is, when you ignore that history, and you try to teach it as a more power-friendly version of events where these workers and activists suffered so badly that in turn it made certain members of the oppressor have a miraculous turn of heart and Mr. Smith their way into passing civil rights legislation, you create the impression of a system that never existed, and people because more despondent and frustrated when that system turns out to not work in the present either (because, of course, it was a lie about how things worked). It creates the ideological foundation behind "Vote Blue no matter who;" a foundation of sand on a beach under threat by a storm.

it isn't nihilistic, it isn't doom and gloom, to acknowledge that reality, to accept that it is still the place we find ourselves in today. Do people here want Trump and the rest of the fascists of the GOP in charge? No, of course not. But we recognize as well how the leadership of the Democratic Party are themselves part of the system of oppression, both historically and presently, that our forebears have fought against, that our salvation does not come from electing The Right Democrat, who will fix everything, because they belong to the systems of oppression that are crushing us. You look at the business histories of these people and they're little different frmo that of the GOP, hands deep in every exploitative and oppressive capitalist industry in the country. You look at their records and by and large, it is a record of trying to preserve at turn after turn the systems that seek to crush the innocent for being different, from being from the wrong racial or ethnic group, for not coming into the country the right (white) way.

It isn't nihilistic to acknowledge these people will not save us. It isn't nihilistic to confront that these people barely even want to be a meaningful bulwark against attacks against us.

Yes, it is dispiriting. Yes, it is knocking you on your ass. I can see it knocking you on yours right now, metaphorically speaking.

But then we have to pick ourselves back up. That is the key. What you're experiencing isn't nihilism, it's disillusionment. And the hardest thing once an illusion has been broken is finding your way in this new, seemingly changed world. But that's why history is important, that's why the struggle of so many labor and marginalized groups is important to study, to learn, internalize and push forward into the future. But we can't win if we just keep clinging to the methods of change that the people oppressing us tell us are the ones that are okay to use, because those are not the methods that will liberate us from their oppression, their hate, their violence against us.

There is hope to be had yet, but it is not found in "make sure you vote." It is in banding together as a collective, of helping each other when and where we can with what we have, it is standing up for ourselves against the violence being meted against us, it is forming bonds strong enough that show the ruling oppressor that we will not be cowed, that we will not be struck down for being who we are, for trying to live lives of dignity, of love, of growth that are true to us. For wanting to live a life where we are more than just the replaceable cogs of a machine that drains our lives and turns it into wealth we'll never see for masters we'll never know.

bravo

Preacher

ArcTangent wrote: »

Preacher wrote: »

Spitz breeds?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitz

Northern origin, fox-like face, small pointed ears, double coat, back-curled tail, etc.

You learn something new everyday!

I'm so glad pembrookes stopped having their tails docked because they look even more adorable with a big fluffy tail.

BlackDragon480

Polaritie wrote: »

ArcTangent wrote: »

Preacher wrote: »

Spitz breeds?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitz

Northern origin, fox-like face, small pointed ears, double coat, back-curled tail, etc.

AKA adorable.

In the Shiba case, aderpable

MegaMan001

I'll vote for Biden, not out of any allegiance to the man or his beliefs, but because I think everything would be worse with a Republican President.

I respect anyone for not voting for him, he sucks by most of my own metrics for president, but again, I feel like just everything would be worst.

I know this makes me an unpopular kind of progressive (or liberal or leftist, I'm not entirely confident on what is a non perjorative term for what I believe in) and the kind of hostage the DNC dreams about.

PiptheFair

Tallahasseeriel wrote: »

One of my neighbors has some kind of Shiba and it's really cute but I haven't met that dog because I don't understand dogs

Shibas are cat firmware on dog hardware

Preacher

I always thought sharpei's looked so cute with their big ole wrinkley wrinkles, but apparently they are like a Chinese guard dog and so you need to be careful approaching them on par with a shepard or doberman.

The Lovely Bastard

the coolest dog is the bulldog, because they are mostly just sentient meatballs that wanna hang

Knight_

i vote for whatever dem in the general because idk at least they're not fascist or whatever and it takes like 5 minutes.

and honestly i don't know what else to do because the world sucks and is terrible and i'm very tired.

Styrofoam Sammich

Im not going to fault someone for voting for him because the GOP is worse, especially in a state that actually matters. I just think its a shitty marketing pitch.

Shadowfire

Magell wrote: »

Nirya wrote: »

https://twitter.com/nikkihaley/status/1651297354228563981?s=46&t=pv2TLjywkGW5Zs2iA87Pdw

At the very least, the Disney thing continues to allow other GOP people to dunk on DeSantis, which is really funny.

I love this stuff because I love the concept that somebody things Disney is going to move four whole amusement parks, 20 hotels, tons of parking space, and Disney Springs to another state.

Yeah, that's a thing that's possible.

More likely Disney World secedes and creates the Mickey Vatican.

facetious

I hadn't been using twitter much recently but I was just browsing it properly for the first time in a while and holy fuck does all blue check replies being put at the top make it a miserable experience.

Cello

The coolest dog is the Belgian Tervuren and I'm not biased at all

GSDs are good too, I say with no bias

...breeds i haven't owned that I have fallen in love with in classes have included Bernese Mountain Dogs, their big brothers the Greater Swiss Mountain Dog, Collies in general, and Leonbergers who are basically horse dogs

OneAngryPossum

The lesson they appeared to learn from the experience with Obama was ‘Never be exciting or sound like you have a big vision to offer so nobody can say you failed to deliver.’

MrMonroe

PiptheFair wrote: »

a thing I don't think people really understand is how fucking crazy big florida actually is as an economic and thus political power

were we a country it'd be the 17th largest country in the world

we're the 4th state by gdp, but california and texas have fake unicorn tech money

that is a crazy amount of power for some petulant fascist to have at his disposal

is this like a macho thing?

CA has twice the population of Florida. If every tech business in the country moved to Canada suddenly it would barely move the needle on the order of states by GDP.

The Lovely Bastard

this is how you betray slobberfest, @cello?!?!?

Preacher

The Lovely Bastard wrote: »

the coolest dog is the bulldog, because they are mostly just sentient meatballs that wanna hang

A streamer I watch has a couple french bull dogs and they seem like the most chill dogs. I just feel bad because know like Pugs bulldogs have a shit ton of health problems if they are purebread.

tynic

Cello wrote: »

The coolest dog is the Belgian Tervuren and I'm not biased at all

GSDs are good too, I say with no bias

...breeds i haven't owned that I have fallen in love with in classes have included Bernese Mountain Dogs, their big brothers the Greater Swiss Mountain Dog, Collies in general, and Leonbergers who are basically horse dogs

Leonbergers are delightful friends and I love em.
My if-only dog is a Tibetan mastiff. Can you imagine??!?

The Lovely Bastard

Preacher wrote: »

The Lovely Bastard wrote: »

the coolest dog is the bulldog, because they are mostly just sentient meatballs that wanna hang

A streamer I watch has a couple french bull dogs and they seem like the most chill dogs. I just feel bad because know like Pugs bulldogs have a shit ton of health problems if they are purebread.

oh yeah, for sure

but my body is also bullshit, so i relate to them on a spiritual level

Preacher

The Lovely Bastard wrote: »

Preacher wrote: »

The Lovely Bastard wrote: »

the coolest dog is the bulldog, because they are mostly just sentient meatballs that wanna hang

A streamer I watch has a couple french bull dogs and they seem like the most chill dogs. I just feel bad because know like Pugs bulldogs have a shit ton of health problems if they are purebread.

oh yeah, for sure

but my body is also bullshit, so i relate to them on a spiritual level

Man I miss having a dog, like I don't miss having to buy food, clean up after them, or take walks in absolutely shit weather and the fact that's the time my dog decided every smell must be investigated. But I miss dogs.

Lanz

https://twitter.com/lib_crusher/status/1651303238644424706?s=46

jesus christ the pics and vids in here

https://www.propublica.org/article/trains-crossing-blocked-kids-norfolk-southern

Lamira Samson, Jeremiah’s mother, faced a choice she said she has to make several times a week. They could walk around the train, perhaps a mile out of the way; she could keep her 8-year-old son home, as she sometimes does; or they could try to climb over the train, risking severe injury or death, to reach Hess Elementary School four blocks away.

She listened for the hum of an engine. Hearing none, she hurried to help Jeremiah climb a ladder onto the flat platform of a train car. Once up herself, she helped him scramble down the other side.

ProPublica and InvestigateTV witnessed dozens of students do the same in Hammond, climbing over, squeezing between and crawling under train cars with “Frozen” and “Space Jam” backpacks. An eighth grade girl waited 10 minutes before she made her move, nervously scrutinizing the gap between two cars. She’d seen plenty of trains start without warning. “I don’t want to get crushed,” she said.

Recent spectacular derailments have focused attention on train safety and whether the nation’s powerful rail companies are doing enough to protect the public — and whether federal regulators are doing enough to make them, especially as the companies build longer and longer trains.

But communities like Hammond routinely face a different set of risks foisted on them by those same train companies, which have long acted with impunity. Every day across America, their trains park in the middle of neighborhoods and major intersections, waiting to enter congested rail yards or for one crew to switch with another. They block crossings, sometimes for hours or days, disrupting life and endangering lives.

News accounts chronicle horror stories: Ambulances can’t reach patients before they die or get them to the hospital in time. Fire trucks can’t get through and house fires blaze out of control. Pedestrians trying to cut through trains have been disfigured, dismembered and killed; when one train abruptly began moving, an Iowa woman was dragged underneath until it stripped almost all of the skin from the back of her body; a Pennsylvania teenager lost her leg hopping between rail cars as she rushed home to get ready for prom.

In Hammond, the hulking trains of Norfolk Southern regularly force parents, kids and caretakers into an exhausting gamble: How much should they risk to get to school?

Uriel

I feel like I'm bad at dogs

Like I'm awkward around them because I don't know how to interface with them

Cats are like "whatever we can each do our own thing" but dogs seem like they want more from me I dunno

nightmarenny

Preacher wrote: »

Magell wrote: »

Nirya wrote: »

https://twitter.com/nikkihaley/status/1651297354228563981?s=46&t=pv2TLjywkGW5Zs2iA87Pdw

At the very least, the Disney thing continues to allow other GOP people to dunk on DeSantis, which is really funny.

I love this stuff because I love the concept that somebody things Disney is going to move four whole amusement parks, 20 hotels, tons of parking space, and Disney Springs to another state.

Yeah, that's a thing that's possible.

How big can a park be michael? Its just a house right?

I don't think its nearly as impossible as you guys are acting. Like, of course Disney will do everything they possibly can to make this work but if all the legal stuff doesn't go their way(and Desantis is a fascist so it could) is the idea that Disney will refuse to pay the "move to a less shit state" tax because being ruled by a fascist that actively wants to destroy them will be better?

Preacher

Tallahasseeriel wrote: »

I feel like I'm bad at dogs

Like I'm awkward around them because I don't know how to interface with them

Cats are like "whatever we can each do our own thing" but dogs seem like they want more from me I dunno

Dogs can be scary, like most of them just want pets, but even as someone who likes dogs, I'm always super leery of putting my hand near a dog I don't know.

where as even the biggest dick hole cat I ever met (rip duchess) just like clawed the shit out of my hand and tried to eat it but like in a fun way

Maddoc

The unfortunate truth is that so, so many people don't train their dogs worth a damn.

Especially small dogs, I don't fuck with small dogs unless I'm sure they're cool.

Uriel

Preacher wrote: »

Tallahasseeriel wrote: »

I feel like I'm bad at dogs

Like I'm awkward around them because I don't know how to interface with them

Cats are like "whatever we can each do our own thing" but dogs seem like they want more from me I dunno

Dogs can be scary, like most of them just want pets, but even as someone who likes dogs, I'm always super leery of putting my hand near a dog I don't know.

Even dogs that belong to friends that I feel like I can be reasonably comfortable around get to me sometimes though. It's just a vibes thing though I think.

Usually small higher energy dogs bother me more than a big chill older doggo.

My one friend has a great Pyrenees though and that's simply too much dog for me.

nightmarenny

Lanz wrote: »

Lanz wrote: »

Munkus Beaver wrote: »

To put it simple: the nihilism effects me. The attitude of nothing we do matters let’s just accelerate to the end causes me constant psychic damage when I am trying to keep my head above water. I have seen it effect others, I have seen the zeitgeist around here shift to pessimism and nihilism at every opportunity, at every possible chance to celebrate a victory. I have watched people lose their hope and repeat nihilistic rhetoric as nauseum. I hate it, I hate the way it feeds into itself and creates a toxic environment for any pushback.

I like this place and most of the people in it. I tend to agree with most all leftist political alignments that we discuss here and have been incredibly thankful for how much this place has contributed to my growth as a person and made me better than I was before. So when it gets obsessive about the nihilism of the political process that also has an effect.

I said at the start this aspect is the aspect I hate the most about election season and I mean it. I hate having these arguments, these discussions with people I respect that end up sapping the life from any attempt to make a difference. And that’s my only goal here: to try and improve the zeitgeist of the forums slightly so that it is not all doom and gloom every time the whiff of something political comes around.

Because your nihilism may not effect you, but it effects others here.

so I think it is, again, important to address just what "nihilism" is in this case.

As Dark Primus, myself, and others have said, repeatedly lamening the uselessness and railing against the electoral system as our primary, and often sole, method of affecting change is not nihilism. Like, I need to ask you Munkus: how familiar are you with the direct action movements of the 20th century? How familiar are you with the restlessness and burgeoning revolutionary atmosphere during the great depression? How familiar are you with the history of marginalized individuals repeatedly putting their lives at stake not at ballot boxes in the civil rights era, but on the streets?

Because all these things? They weren't the result of the kind of politics that pundits, wonks and mainstream political hobbyists treat as The Way things Work, some Mr. Smith Goes to Washingtonian, Sorkinian dream where the people get together to elect the right people together and solve the problems of the day.

But that is the way we're conditioned to think about politics. Think about every protest in the past few years, and how much fear that they're not protesting "the right way" or that they might descend into rioting which will somehow delegitimize the movement, etc.

This perspective is one that has been deliberately constructed in the decades following what we commonly understand as America's Civil Rights Era, and one I would argue that is deliberately meant to defang further progress, which we can define as the redistribution of power from Racial and Economic elites to the mass populace, particularly for it's most marginalized groups. The reality of the 20th century of American progress is one characterized by mass disruption of the status quo in the name of taking that power back to the people, and in some cases, yes, the threat that the oppressed would not allow themselves to meekly submit to the violence of a racist and economically oppressive state. It is a history of massive strikes, of strikers being murdered by corporations, their agents and the state itself (remember, of course, the Battle of Blair Mountain, where mine owners and local authorities collaborated to kill miners, up to and including bombing them with improvised bombs made from surplus WWI munitions), of the cops andwhite mobs repeatedly beating, torturing, killing black people, of razing their sections of town, and of black resistance taking up literal arms to say they would no longer be murdered by the state and the mobs without a fight. Of queer people just trying to live their lives, to be raided by police for nothing more than being queer in public spaces, and answering back by rioting right back at the pigs who saw their lives as degeneracy. Of rumors and tensions of Russian-style October revolutions in the US in the wake of the Great Depression, which pressured FDR and the corporations of the day to relenting, as imperfectly as it was, in the construction of The New Deal.

This is a history that is glossed over, ignored, whitewashed and denied by the way we teach american history to most people. You're lucky to learn about it even in college. It's not the big fancy arc of American Brand Justice that Great Men and Great Politicians brought to us that we're regularly taught. And its because it's not pretty, it's not enobling to the American identity in the way that most people prefer because at every turn it raises a finger at America and questions it's commitments to freedom and democracy, pointing to a repeat history of turmoil and struggle to achieve the ends that were so supposedly promised to us at the birth of the nation. and I think part of the problem is, when you ignore that history, and you try to teach it as a more power-friendly version of events where these workers and activists suffered so badly that in turn it made certain members of the oppressor have a miraculous turn of heart and Mr. Smith their way into passing civil rights legislation, you create the impression of a system that never existed, and people because more despondent and frustrated when that system turns out to not work in the present either (because, of course, it was a lie about how things worked). It creates the ideological foundation behind "Vote Blue no matter who;" a foundation of sand on a beach under threat by a storm.

it isn't nihilistic, it isn't doom and gloom, to acknowledge that reality, to accept that it is still the place we find ourselves in today. Do people here want Trump and the rest of the fascists of the GOP in charge? No, of course not. But we recognize as well how the leadership of the Democratic Party are themselves part of the system of oppression, both historically and presently, that our forebears have fought against, that our salvation does not come from electing The Right Democrat, who will fix everything, because they belong to the systems of oppression that are crushing us. You look at the business histories of these people and they're little different frmo that of the GOP, hands deep in every exploitative and oppressive capitalist industry in the country. You look at their records and by and large, it is a record of trying to preserve at turn after turn the systems that seek to crush the innocent for being different, from being from the wrong racial or ethnic group, for not coming into the country the right (white) way.

It isn't nihilistic to acknowledge these people will not save us. It isn't nihilistic to confront that these people barely even want to be a meaningful bulwark against attacks against us.

Yes, it is dispiriting. Yes, it is knocking you on your ass. I can see it knocking you on yours right now, metaphorically speaking.

But then we have to pick ourselves back up. That is the key. What you're experiencing isn't nihilism, it's disillusionment. And the hardest thing once an illusion has been broken is finding your way in this new, seemingly changed world. But that's why history is important, that's why the struggle of so many labor and marginalized groups is important to study, to learn, internalize and push forward into the future. But we can't win if we just keep clinging to the methods of change that the people oppressing us tell us are the ones that are okay to use, because those are not the methods that will liberate us from their oppression, their hate, their violence against us.

There is hope to be had yet, but it is not found in "make sure you vote." It is in banding together as a collective, of helping each other when and where we can with what we have, it is standing up for ourselves against the violence being meted against us, it is forming bonds strong enough that show the ruling oppressor that we will not be cowed, that we will not be struck down for being who we are, for trying to live lives of dignity, of love, of growth that are true to us. For wanting to live a life where we are more than just the replaceable cogs of a machine that drains our lives and turns it into wealth we'll never see for masters we'll never know.

addendum to the above:

I think part of what I have a problem with is liberals act like Trump is the worst thing that can ever happen to this country, and will castigate you for not backing whatever democrat goes up against him, particularly because of that candidate's own past and present policies that achieve many of the same outcomes as Trump pursued in office.

and I cannot square that with the utter lack of action.

I know Trump is bad, I know he's a nightmare. I've seen what he's done, and what he says he's gonna do when he's back in power.

But no one acts on that. Liberal scolding about trump is about trheatening with you of the hell of a resurgent fascist movement and then, when that fascist and his fascist fellows take power, going "well, nevertheless, he's in charge now,"

What resistance does liberalism actually offer to fascism? What do your champions do to free the oppressed? To resist their tyrannies? If Trump does win, if he passes national bans on abortion services and medications, on trans healthcare for those medically transitioning, will your champions help them get the medicines and services they need? Will your vaunted public servants protect and ferry away the doctors and helpers who the police will target under those laws? What stands will actually be taken against the fascist state you (and I agree, it will be a fascist state!) say will come to power!

Where will your champions of the Democratic Party stand in the new underground railroads? In protecting literal fugitives from the power of the state just because they dressed in the "wrong" set of clothing in public, or used the "wrong" bathroom? What will you and they do for the people who came to this country the "wrong" way and got reported to Immigration Services for deportation?

The liberal desperately wants to stop the fascist state frmo coming into being at the ballot box, but yet acquiesce to it once it wins. And then blame those to their left for "letting" it happen, as their activists and champions are imprisoned and murdered in resistance to it all. You can see this in the construction of the history of the civil rights movement, that kind of protestant fetishization of ennobled suffering; the rightness of submitting to even corrupt authority, to demonstrate your innocence and the state's oppression. And I think this in turn conditions the liberal mindset to think that you must submit to authority, even when that authority is unjust oppression. So again I'll ask: when the fascist state comes, and indeed in many ways it is already here: how will you resist, or at least help those who are under the jackboot to resist?

One thing that my parents use to excuse their transphobia when talking about my transition is that they are scared of me because they see the things that are happening in other states and its fascist and you know what happened to trans people in Nazi Germany right? And I just want to scream "If you think things are that bad why arn't you doing anything! Why arn't you more scared for everybody!?!?! Do you think if we're being taken over by fascism that things won't get bad for you too? That I'd be ok if I was a cisman?"