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The Decline of Western [Twitter]ization

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Posts

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    some pushback from the Bluesky people. Obviously it's corporate-speak.



    I dunno, I've been noticing some of the people I follow talking about being on it, so I expect they'll keep talking about how bad or good it ends up being. Also since it's invite-based I doubt I'll have to make that decision for a while.

    My read is that the ToS says exactly what you think it does and they are trying to have excuses for it.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Central OhioRegistered User regular
    Le chonk

    El chonk

    Le chonk

    l7ygmd1dd4p1.jpeg
    3b2y43dozpk3.jpeg
  • ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    Oh look, it's the same stupid "fearmongering over bog standard webhosting ToS language for clout" that happens with every new social media site

    7h8wnycre6vs.png
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Define clout

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Le chonk

    El chonk

    Le chonk

    My wife is all "Well I'm a fire crocodile" yeah like she become like a fire dinosaur. Le chonk? Just gets fatter, I mean like its on point, but hurtful.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    ph blake wrote: »
    Oh look, it's the same stupid "fearmongering over bog standard webhosting ToS language for clout" that happens with every new social media site

    I mean:
    6zfejwsri7yt.png


    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Cybertronian Paranormal Eliminator Registered User regular
    ph blake wrote: »
    Oh look, it's the same stupid "fearmongering over bog standard webhosting ToS language for clout" that happens with every new social media site

    Does Twitter or Facebook have that language in their ToS?

  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2023
    Mill wrote: »
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Ladai wrote: »
    I have never been more uncertain/dismissive of the merits of electorialism than I am right now. I absolutely 100 percent feel that any chance for a better future lies in direct action and mutual aid.

    But even still I have this almost reptillian-level twinge in my brain that screams things like, "You live in Pennsylvania!" and "If you don't vote then the Republican will win the state by literally one vote and it will be your own personal fault that they became president and you will feel like shit!"

    And I hate it because I know the Democrats are counting on that kind of fear and I am absolutely rewarding their bullshit every time I vote for president. I just justify it to myself by making sure that voting only makes up a tiny part of my political action.

    Duck first past the post voting. I hate being hamstrung. We almost got tiered(?) voting here in oregon last election, failed to pass just by a handful of percent. Hoping it’s on the ballot again next time.

    Ranked choice voting is one of those things I want to see happen because not only does it have a shot at passing, but it probably would solve some of the dysfunction in our political system. (-snip-)
    Ranked choice worked really poorly in the last nyc mayoral election. People still only voted for their favorite, and left the rest blank.
    I'd love it if it actually worked, but I don't think people want to understand it, so they refuse to learn.

    It's definitely a system that requires a certain amount of political literacy (and, like, actual literacy), but the more ranked choice gets adopted the more people will understand it and have a better and more nuanced engagement with it. It doesn't surprise me that that's an uphill battle in the US, a place with so many conflicting methods and layers of voting and vote-counting, but I don't think that's a reason to write it off - I think it's a reason to spread it and support it more, so it becomes more normalized and people end up learning in spite of themselves.

    tynic on
  • LokarnLokarn Registered User regular
    Alternatively, bog standard ToS webhosting language is way too broad and cedes far too much control over to dodgy companies with poor track records.

  • HoukHouk Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    ph blake wrote: »
    Oh look, it's the same stupid "fearmongering over bog standard webhosting ToS language for clout" that happens with every new social media site

    weird take my dude. either this isn't "bog standard" and should be called out, or it is bog standard and should have a spotlight shined on it constantly and at all times

    not sure what good a "ho hum business as usual, no big deal" attitude does for something like this

  • ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    Lokarn wrote: »
    Alternatively, bog standard ToS webhosting language is way too broad and cedes far too much control over to dodgy companies with poor track records.

    maybe, but every single social media has a clause that basically means "we can host host and show people what you upload using our algorithm" because, I mean, that's what social media sites are

    and every single time some idiot farms engagement by misunderstanding it to mean "twitter/facebook claims all ownership rights to anything you upload there!!"

    and after like the 5th time seeing it I just kind of snapped

    These sites are horrible enough! You don't need to make up fake shit to stress out artists or whatever, there's already plenty to yell about!

    7h8wnycre6vs.png
  • ChicoBlueChicoBlue Registered User regular
    Speaking of bog standard, I'm farting a lot today.

  • OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular



    This is why one shouldn't really 'tell all' in an biography/autobiography. At least, not when you're still within range of legal action.

  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Ladai wrote: »
    I have never been more uncertain/dismissive of the merits of electorialism than I am right now. I absolutely 100 percent feel that any chance for a better future lies in direct action and mutual aid.

    But even still I have this almost reptillian-level twinge in my brain that screams things like, "You live in Pennsylvania!" and "If you don't vote then the Republican will win the state by literally one vote and it will be your own personal fault that they became president and you will feel like shit!"

    And I hate it because I know the Democrats are counting on that kind of fear and I am absolutely rewarding their bullshit every time I vote for president. I just justify it to myself by making sure that voting only makes up a tiny part of my political action.

    Duck first past the post voting. I hate being hamstrung. We almost got tiered(?) voting here in oregon last election, failed to pass just by a handful of percent. Hoping it’s on the ballot again next time.

    Ranked choice voting is one of those things I want to see happen because not only does it have a shot at passing, but it probably would solve some of the dysfunction in our political system. (-snip-)
    Ranked choice worked really poorly in the last nyc mayoral election. People still only voted for their favorite, and left the rest blank.
    I'd love it if it actually worked, but I don't think people want to understand it, so they refuse to learn.

    It's definitely a system that requires a certain amount of political literacy (and, like, actual literacy), but the more ranked choice gets adopted the more people will understand it and have a better and more nuanced engagement with it. It doesn't surprise me that that's an uphill battle in the US, a place with so many conflicting methods and layers of voting and vote-counting, but I don't think that's a reason to write it off - I think it's a reason to spread it and support it more, so it becomes more normalized and people end up learning in spite of themselves.

    I'd really love NZ to adopt ranked choice in our main elections, as then I could much more safely vote for some of the small parties (TOP, Greens) then having to figure out if they will hit 5% or get a MP elected in one of the electoral seats.

    Sadly, neither national not labor have much political will fit such, given it would much more directly harm their majorities.

    The annoying thing is we have it for our mayoral and council elections

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
    Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Cybertronian Paranormal Eliminator Registered User regular
    ChicoBlue wrote: »
    Speaking of bog standard, I'm farting a lot today.

    My favorite knock knock "joke" to use on my mother is:

    Me: Knock knock
    Mom: Who's there

    Then I break wind.

    Eventually she got wise, so I didn't use it for several years and then pulled out it a month ago and caught her off guard all over again.

    Sadly she's never broken wind and said "who?" in response to me, which would be the ultimate power play, because I don't really have a follow up to the joke, and having the necessary remaining flatulence can be a dicey proposition.

  • HoukHouk Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    ph blake wrote: »
    Lokarn wrote: »
    Alternatively, bog standard ToS webhosting language is way too broad and cedes far too much control over to dodgy companies with poor track records.

    maybe, but every single social media has a clause that basically means "we can host host and show people what you upload using our algorithm" because, I mean, that's what social media sites are

    and every single time some idiot farms engagement by misunderstanding it to mean "twitter/facebook claims all ownership rights to anything you upload there!!"

    and after like the 5th time seeing it I just kind of snapped

    These sites are horrible enough! You don't need to make up fake shit to stress out artists or whatever, there's already plenty to yell about!

    the tweet is literally quoting the TOS and then giving their opinion on it (which they're clear that that's what it is). Nobody's making anything up. This is a really weird thing to get mad at.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Owenashi wrote: »



    This is why one shouldn't really 'tell all' in an biography/autobiography. At least, not when you're still within range of legal action.

    Reminds me of the villains plot in gladiator about letting their enemies take bites all the while getting themselves deeper into trouble until bam you snap at them.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    ph blake wrote: »
    Lokarn wrote: »
    Alternatively, bog standard ToS webhosting language is way too broad and cedes far too much control over to dodgy companies with poor track records.

    maybe, but every single social media has a clause that basically means "we can host host and show people what you upload using our algorithm" because, I mean, that's what social media sites are

    and every single time some idiot farms engagement by misunderstanding it to mean "twitter/facebook claims all ownership rights to anything you upload there!!"

    and after like the 5th time seeing it I just kind of snapped

    These sites are horrible enough! You don't need to make up fake shit to stress out artists or whatever, there's already plenty to yell about!

    the tweet is literally quoting the TOS and then giving their opinion on it (which they're clear that that's what it is). Nobody's making anything up. This is a really weird thing to get mad at.

    Look, I don't know this person from adam, nor do I really care to do a deep dive into all this

    My post was just an instinctual, frustrated reaction to a specific type of online phenomenon that I find annoying (the whole "pulling out individual words and phrases from literal pages of lawyer speak and framing it as something way more nefarious than what it is"), sorry it bugged people this much.

    7h8wnycre6vs.png
  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    There seems to be at least some back and forth on whether or not Bluesky's TOS stuff is extraordinary or not

  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    ph blake wrote: »
    Oh look, it's the same stupid "fearmongering over bog standard webhosting ToS language for clout" that happens with every new social media site

    Does Twitter or Facebook have that language in their ToS?

    Well, let's compare them.

    BlueSky:
    https://staging.bsky.app/support/tos
    By making any User Content available through the Services, you hereby grant to Bluesky and its subsidiaries, affiliates, licensee, successors, and assigns (the “Bluesky Parties”) an irrevocable, non-exclusive, perpetual, transferable, worldwide, royalty-free license, with the right to sublicense (through multiple tiers of sub-licensing), to use, copy, modify, adapt, crop, edit, creative derivative works, distribute, publicly display, publicly perform and otherwise exploit in any media now known or hereafter devised, your User Content, in whole or in part, in connection with (i) providing the Services and Content to you and to others; (ii) promote and market Bluesky and our Services, including without limitation through Bluesky’s owned, operated, and/or branded social media channels. For example, Bluesky may create compilations of Content made available by Account holders (including your User Content), and/or use User Content or such compilations to promote the App through Bluesky’s operated, and/or branded social media channels, without further payment or consideration by Bluesky. However, without your prior consent, Bluesky will not use your User Content in any Content that is sponsored by a third party.

    Facebook:
    https://www.facebook.com/legal/terms/plain_text_terms
    Specifically, when you share, post, or upload content that is covered by intellectual property rights on or in connection with our Products, you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, and worldwide license to host, use, distribute, modify, run, copy, publicly perform or display, translate, and create derivative works of your content (consistent with your privacy and application settings).

    Twitter:
    https://twitter.com/en/tos
    By submitting, posting or displaying Content on or through the Services, you grant us a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free license (with the right to sublicense) to use, copy, reproduce, process, adapt, modify, publish, transmit, display and distribute such Content in any and all media or distribution methods now known or later developed (for clarity, these rights include, for example, curating, transforming, and translating). This license authorizes us to make your Content available to the rest of the world and to let others do the same.

    Fairly similar, they do all include the words "worldwide", "non-exclusive", and "sublicense". Facebook and BlueSky both have "transferable", which Twitter does not, and I'm not sure of the significance of that term.

    It seems like the main thing I am seeing that sets BlueSky's apart are the words "irrevocable" and "perpetual", which would seem to imply that you're not able to delete your content from their service? That does seem a little odd.

  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Ladai wrote: »
    I have never been more uncertain/dismissive of the merits of electorialism than I am right now. I absolutely 100 percent feel that any chance for a better future lies in direct action and mutual aid.

    But even still I have this almost reptillian-level twinge in my brain that screams things like, "You live in Pennsylvania!" and "If you don't vote then the Republican will win the state by literally one vote and it will be your own personal fault that they became president and you will feel like shit!"

    And I hate it because I know the Democrats are counting on that kind of fear and I am absolutely rewarding their bullshit every time I vote for president. I just justify it to myself by making sure that voting only makes up a tiny part of my political action.

    Duck first past the post voting. I hate being hamstrung. We almost got tiered(?) voting here in oregon last election, failed to pass just by a handful of percent. Hoping it’s on the ballot again next time.

    Ranked choice voting is one of those things I want to see happen because not only does it have a shot at passing, but it probably would solve some of the dysfunction in our political system. (-snip-)
    Ranked choice worked really poorly in the last nyc mayoral election. People still only voted for their favorite, and left the rest blank.
    I'd love it if it actually worked, but I don't think people want to understand it, so they refuse to learn.

    It's definitely a system that requires a certain amount of political literacy (and, like, actual literacy), but the more ranked choice gets adopted the more people will understand it and have a better and more nuanced engagement with it. It doesn't surprise me that that's an uphill battle in the US, a place with so many conflicting methods and layers of voting and vote-counting, but I don't think that's a reason to write it off - I think it's a reason to spread it and support it more, so it becomes more normalized and people end up learning in spite of themselves.

    Reminds me of Americans and roundabouts. Sure it looks scary, but once you get used to it it’s the best thing ever.

    In other news i saw a guy going around one backwards last week.

    Steam ID: Webguy20
    Origin ID: Discgolfer27
    Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2023
    ph blake wrote: »
    Oh look, it's the same stupid "fearmongering over bog standard webhosting ToS language for clout" that happens with every new social media site

    Does Twitter or Facebook have that language in their ToS?

    Well, let's compare them.

    BlueSky:
    https://staging.bsky.app/support/tos
    By making any User Content available through the Services, you hereby grant to Bluesky and its subsidiaries, affiliates, licensee, successors, and assigns (the “Bluesky Parties”) an irrevocable, non-exclusive, perpetual, transferable, worldwide, royalty-free license, with the right to sublicense (through multiple tiers of sub-licensing), to use, copy, modify, adapt, crop, edit, creative derivative works, distribute, publicly display, publicly perform and otherwise exploit in any media now known or hereafter devised, your User Content, in whole or in part, in connection with (i) providing the Services and Content to you and to others; (ii) promote and market Bluesky and our Services, including without limitation through Bluesky’s owned, operated, and/or branded social media channels. For example, Bluesky may create compilations of Content made available by Account holders (including your User Content), and/or use User Content or such compilations to promote the App through Bluesky’s operated, and/or branded social media channels, without further payment or consideration by Bluesky. However, without your prior consent, Bluesky will not use your User Content in any Content that is sponsored by a third party.

    Facebook:
    https://www.facebook.com/legal/terms/plain_text_terms
    Specifically, when you share, post, or upload content that is covered by intellectual property rights on or in connection with our Products, you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, and worldwide license to host, use, distribute, modify, run, copy, publicly perform or display, translate, and create derivative works of your content (consistent with your privacy and application settings).

    Twitter:
    https://twitter.com/en/tos
    By submitting, posting or displaying Content on or through the Services, you grant us a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free license (with the right to sublicense) to use, copy, reproduce, process, adapt, modify, publish, transmit, display and distribute such Content in any and all media or distribution methods now known or later developed (for clarity, these rights include, for example, curating, transforming, and translating). This license authorizes us to make your Content available to the rest of the world and to let others do the same.

    Fairly similar, they do all include the words "worldwide", "non-exclusive", and "sublicense". Facebook and BlueSky both have "transferable", which Twitter does not, and I'm not sure of the significance of that term.

    It seems like the main thing I am seeing that sets BlueSky's apart are the words "irrevocable" and "perpetual", which would seem to imply that you're not able to delete your content from their service? That does seem a little odd.

    No, they are very different.
    Bluesky:
    otherwise exploit in any media now known or hereafter devised, your User Content

    That's the relevant line that changes things. It's an ambiguous clause and if you wanna trust a tech company with ambiguity that's on you.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Owenashi wrote: »



    This is why one shouldn't really 'tell all' in an biography/autobiography. At least, not when you're still within range of legal action.

    Reminds me of the villains plot in gladiator about letting their enemies take bites all the while getting themselves deeper into trouble until bam you snap at them.

    his name was commodus and he was not murdered by his wrestling partner at the behest of the senate to be slandered like that without also mentioning how fucking big a disappointment he was after his dad marcus aurelius

  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    I mean if you name your kid after a toilet you can’t be surprised when he turns out to be full of shit

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    I mean if you name your kid after a toilet you can’t be surprised when he turns out to be full of shit
    Stop shitting into the dresser, it's weird

  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Owenashi wrote: »



    This is why one shouldn't really 'tell all' in an biography/autobiography. At least, not when you're still within range of legal action.

    Reminds me of the villains plot in gladiator about letting their enemies take bites all the while getting themselves deeper into trouble until bam you snap at them.

    his name was commodus and he was not murdered by his wrestling partner at the behest of the senate to be slandered like that without also mentioning how fucking big a disappointment he was after his dad marcus aurelius

    Marcus wasn't exactly that popular compared to the earlier Antonines. Most of the regular citizens found him a humorless stick so stoicly up his own ass that even Zeno would ask him to lighten up, and the campaigns in Germania weren't terribly popular due to how much it depleted the treasury.

    No matter where you go...there you are.
    ~ Buckaroo Banzai
  • ToxTox I kill threads they/themRegistered User regular
  • KelorKelor Registered User regular
    The dunking that launched a thousand posts.

  • ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    Matty Y sucks ass

    but it really should have a block function though, that's fucking wild that they launched without one

    7h8wnycre6vs.png
  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited April 2023
    It would definitely be very funny if Jack, after selling Twitter to Elon, then successfully overtook twitter by just making Twitter 2: No Elons Edition

    Jack sucks like all capitalists, but at least it's a funny weirdo suck, and not the the black hole of suck that Elon is

    (yes I am over ascribing individual merit to platform development and the sale, but still)

    Beef Avenger on
    Steam ID
    PSN: Robo_Wizard1
  • ToxTox I kill threads they/themRegistered User regular
    There's that scene in Jurassic Park 2 where Jeff Goldblum is like "no you're making all new mistakes" about the new Island.

    And like, yeah, a lot of that is applicable to the idea of rebuilding your site from the ground up. Which is why companies shouldn't do that.

    ...unless they can sell version 1.0 to Elon Musk for forty-four fucking billion.

    Discord Lifeboat | Dilige, et quod vis fac
  • GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    Remember Hive? Me either.

    aGPmIBD.jpg
  • BronzeKoopaBronzeKoopa Registered User regular
    Lets just go back to making our own personal webpages. Please sign my guestbook.

  • MysstMysst King Monkey of Hedonism IslandRegistered User regular
    what's gonna make or break bluesky is how fast they can put an app out

    ikbUJdU.jpg
  • pookapooka Registered User regular
    edited April 2023
    tynic wrote: »
    yeah bit hard to parse but that sounds like anti-drag, anti-trans rhetoric, confused (somewhat ironically) by an overuse of non-gendered pronouns.
    Says something about me that hope of redemption hasn't died...

    I am kinda tempted to play dumb, here.

    "Yeah, it's pretty upsetting; the TX legislature is painting with a broad brush, and the Senate just approved a bill actually defunding libraries for having drag storytime -- if the politicians cared about kids for more than political points, they'd make sure libraries had sufficient resources to actually get background checks and not have to rely so heavily on volunteers to have any kid's programming."

    Not sure how much further I can push without tipping my hand.

    e: hmm, maybe. "Every community has individuals who are unsavory, but if we want to go by percentages, straight white males have much more to answer for. But not like politicians are going to hold themselves accountable when they can point the finger at someone more vulnerable."

    pooka on
    lfchwLd.jpg
  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    edited April 2023
    bluesky reserved dril's handle name for him until he was able to make an account, so at least one person over there knows what's up

    Beef Avenger on
    Steam ID
    PSN: Robo_Wizard1
  • RanlinRanlin Oh gosh Registered User regular
    Lets just go back to making our own personal webpages. Please sign my guestbook.

    Want to join my webring?

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    Bluesky is this week’s “heavily word-of-mouth-promoted alternative to Twitter that looks promising until you start reading the fine print”


    Oh hello blatant GDPR violations.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
  • TefTef Registered User regular
    Ladai wrote: »
    I have never been more uncertain/dismissive of the merits of electorialism than I am right now. I absolutely 100 percent feel that any chance for a better future lies in direct action and mutual aid.

    But even still I have this almost reptillian-level twinge in my brain that screams things like, "You live in Pennsylvania!" and "If you don't vote then the Republican will win the state by literally one vote and it will be your own personal fault that they became president and you will feel like shit!"

    And I hate it because I know the Democrats are counting on that kind of fear and I am absolutely rewarding their bullshit every time I vote for president. I just justify it to myself by making sure that voting only makes up a tiny part of my political action.

    I don’t think these two positions are mutually exclusive. If it brings you comfort to vote, then do it I say.

    help a fellow forumer meet their mental health care needs because USA healthcare sucks!

    Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better

    bit.ly/2XQM1ke
  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Voting is often insufficient in and of itself, and the US has a garbage electoral system.

    Nevertheless, it is a citizen's duty to vote, and vote for the best (or least bad) candidate. Participating in, e.g., the primary process and trying to get the best candidates to the ballot is obviously also good. But on voting day, you vote for the best (least bad) candidate for the job. Which, in the US, is sadly almost always a choice between at most two people, one of whom is usually a literal fascist and the other who usually leaves a lot to be desired.

    Never is there no difference between the candidates, and not voting is tacitly falling for that lie.

    And while you're there, vote for the other races, too. Most of them are a lot more important than they seem.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
This discussion has been closed.