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[Honkai: Star Rail] When the sun sets we will not forget the Black Swan over paradise

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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Madican wrote: »
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Madican wrote: »
    I decided I'm not interested in Acheron or Aventurine so I dipped into my starglitter I've been hoarding for nearly a year and have Sparkle now. Also got a couple Hanya eidolons out of it so bonus.

    No idea how I'll build her yet. Need to rewatch that Guoba video to decide.

    Speed and Crit DMG, very easy

    Not that easy. There's three ways to go about it: Slow, Fast, Basic Attack Only and they use different sets/cones. It's also dependent on who the hypercarry is going to be or if I go mono-quantum.

    The actual stats to go for don't change but the weights do.

    Basic attack only is a meme, and fast is going to be better than -1 Speed in damn near every situation.

    I can definitely think of teams where Sparkle being 1 speed slower than the DPS is optimal. Of course, in some of those teams, Bronya is just better than Sparkle.

    Building her as fast as possible is way simpler, and thus is what I would recommend people do first.

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    SaldonasSaldonas See you space cowboy...Registered User regular
    The bigger decision I'll have to make after gearing up my Sparkle is if I bother slowing down my DHIL or just leave him alone. It's not like he'll always be paired with Sparkle...right? :D

    Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/carthuun
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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    I'm just gonna watch the actual theorycrafter's video and decide the playstyle based on what team I want to make

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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    I only had enough for two 10 pulls, which got me an extra Hanya and Sampo. I don't know if I'll do any more. 30 pulls into pity, so I think maybe one more 10 pull would count as getting Sparkle 'early' enough for it to be a good deal. After that, I might as well just wait and save.

    Although, if I spend more pulls now, I'll probably just get another Yanqing or something instead of Sparkle. Which would at least make Acheron guaranteed, if anniversary gives us enough pulls...

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    SaldonasSaldonas See you space cowboy...Registered User regular
    Well luck smiled on me. 40 pulls in to Sparkle's weapon banner...
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    Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/carthuun
    Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    "I need a lot of Harmony traces, so I'll just use Fuel until I get more than 1 purple in a run."

    "...okay, I'll use Fuel until I get 1 purple in a run."

    "Okay, I'm out of Fuel."

    Thanks, Sparkle.

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    initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    I only had 20 pulls for sparkle since black swan took me to pity twice.

    2 hanya eidolons is a reasonable consolation since I’ve been pairing her with DHIL lately

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    edited March 1
    Yeeted Yukon from Cooler Daniel team to make room for Sparkle. Took some relic finagling for about three characters, so there goes all my money, but Sparkle is now at 134 SPD and pulling in as much Crit Damage (200%+) and Effect Resist as I could get (trying to tune the SPD was harder than it sounds because invisible decimal points kept mucking things up). She also has the gear to hit 140+ SPD if I decide to run mono quantum with Seele since the latter just needs to skill once and she's above Sparkle without any SPD rolls whatsoever. Cooler Daniel is now at 135 SPD (a 20 point improvement) and got lucky synthesizing for some better Wastelander relics with Crit Damage so he's got a better balance.

    I may shuffle relics around more once I finish ascending Sparkle and filling in her traces, since there's some gear I couldn't use if I wanted to hit Broken Keel's 30% Eff Res requirement just yet.

    Madican on
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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    Wow did my max break effect Xueyi completely annihilate the first day of this new event.

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    initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    edited March 1
    The trial one was super strong and I have to imagine an intentionally built one would be even better but even the trials just easily hit what I assume was the score cap for me

    initiatefailure on
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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    edited March 1
    Seele is basically the only case where Speed tuning Sparkle is better than aiming for 160

    EDIT: To clarify a little further, the benefit of fast Sparkle is that basically you can ignore Speed entirely on your damage dealer and in practice they will perform as though they had the same speed as Sparkle.

    However Seele is a somewhat unique case where she is gonna have high Speed to matter what, so the benefit is pretty diminished compared to just Speed tuning Sparkle instead.

    Maddoc on
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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    The reason Slow Sparkle (134) is a thing is because of the trade in stat rolls, forgoing Speed for Crit Damage% stacked high as possible. In short fights it outperforms Fast Sparkle by a good margin and my teams are built strong enough that I don't have long fights. Fast Sparkle has less Crit Damage% because you're not reaching 160 Speed without rolling decently into it on sub stats, so it's less damage upfront but faster Sparkle turns means more damage over time. This is not how my teams function, so I didn't build her that way.

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Slow Sparkle (134)

    That's slow? Fuck.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    SaldonasSaldonas See you space cowboy...Registered User regular
    Yeah, 160 is gonna be rough to hit.

    Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/carthuun
    Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Yeah, 134 and 160 are the big breakpoints on speed.

    The only character who hits 160 easily though is Seele I think, because she sits at over 140 with her buff running without anything at all from relics. (She only needs 13 speed to hit 160 buffed, so... she goes ZOOM)

    Steam: Polaritie
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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    I guess I have E1S1 Bronya now, so I think I'll hold off on any more Sparkle pulls.

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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    edited March 1
    160 is the ideal breakpoint for memory of chaos (actually 160.1 I think, I hope that doesn't burn too many people), but don't feel like your Sparkle needs to have that much speed to be effective, especially if you're mostly concerned with other content in the game. "As fast as you can manage" is what I recommend, but you will have an advantage in Memory of Chaos if you manage to hit the right speed thresholds.

    In addition to what Madican said about it allowing for more crit damage, Sparkle being one point slower than your DPS actually works out to give them more turns (they should get 1.5x as many turns as Sparkle does, so at 134 speed, it's actually equivalent to the DPS having over 200 speed, instead of just 160). I think it's actually optimal for any DPS, as long as you can afford the skill points. But it's not quite that simple, because this speed tuning can easily be messed up. And since this won't always result in the DPS acting immediately after Sparkle, it dramatically lowers the value of giving her Bronya's LC or the 4* one with Yukong.

    EDIT: Oh, and I suppose for the slow build, Sparkle will only be buffing two out of every three of the DPS's turns, so that makes things a bit more complicated.

    AshtonDragon on
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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    The game refused to give me Sparkle from my initial pulls, just 6-7 different four-stars across 20 pulls. But today's TV thingy let me trial her in there and with her, Bronya and Huohuo it was definitely enough to keep Swan's Arcana from ever dropping. So I think that's going to be my second team for sure. Ultimately I think I want to move Huohuo off my main team and my main team will be Mei/Ratio/SWolf/Gallagher come 2.1.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Slow Sparkle is a bit more SP intensive compared to Fast Sparkle, but that's why I chose to tune her with Cooler Daniel in mind. I have his E2 so the general strategy is going to be popping Sparkle Ult on his turn when he's ready to blow something up with 3pt Basic, Ult, 3pt Basic combo. Using Sparkle Ult on his turn means a 3 turn window on the buff, since the initial turn doesn't "count". And this'll be made easier with Tingyun acting as battery every now and then to keep things aligned.

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Yeah, 134 and 160 are the big breakpoints on speed.

    The only character who hits 160 easily though is Seele I think, because she sits at over 140 with her buff running without anything at all from relics. (She only needs 13 speed to hit 160 buffed, so... she goes ZOOM)

    I think my fastest characters are Hanya and Asta at 146. I cannot push harder for speed I don't think, just don't have it in me.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    It might helpful that Sparkle really only needs two pieces of the speed set. Beyond that, you can give anything that just happens to have speed and crit damage. Maybe two more pieces of the speed set or two pieces of one of the HP/defense/damage reduction sets is optimal, but if you're trying to push speed, you don't have to worry about being optimal.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Don't need to be too concerned about sets with Slow Sparkle either. I don't even have the 2pc for the Speed set as Slow Sparkle because it was screwing up the tuning in combination with Speed boots. She's got 2pc Wuthering, Quantum gloves, and Messenger boots. Some of it will change once I unlock more Eff Resist traces since I opted for Broken Keel.

    Light cone choice is also something to keep in mind. Fast Sparkle wants Dance Dance Dance but it's a bad idea to use that on Slow Sparkle since it'll desync turn orders to the point not having any light cone is an upgrade to using DDD.

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    FryFry Registered User regular
    I love that "slow" is still a higher SPD than literally any character I have

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Fry wrote: »
    I love that "slow" is still a higher SPD than literally any character I have

    2pc Messenger set + Speed boots should boost you into that range, even without substat rolls.

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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited March 1
    102 base speed character with 2 piece and speed boots winds up with 133 speed, short of the breakpoint (I guess you'd have to check percentages at this point). You need at least 103 base speed to hit 134. There's more characters below that cutoff than above it. Getting speed boots is also a huge hassle by itself.

    Reynolds on
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    MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    If I don't get 5* SPD boots in a reasonable time (and often I don't, because despite everybody wanting them they have crap drop rates), I use Self-Modeling Resin. That's what it's for as far as I'm concerned, that and maybe ERR ropes.

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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    A ways back I said that for pretty much every character, I can't see why you'd want anything else but speed boots and ERR ropes. And a few people theorized that that's not going to be the case.

    And here we are, where everybody just wants speed boots and ERR ropes. Because more turns and more ultimates trump basically everything else. :)

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    It's really only only support characters who want energy ropes. Maybe Argenti and Jingliu, but even then I doubt it's optimal. DPS characters just need too many different stats.

    Speed boots have been wanted by every character not named Clara, Seele (possibly barring her signature LC), and maybe Dan IL/Qingque. But that may have just changed for Sparkle-havers, or at least running no speed on DPS characters is now an option.

    ...putting these two thoughts together, I wonder if the option of using attack boots on characters could now open up the possibility of using an ER rope.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Yeah. Everyone uses speed boots except Seele and sometimes other damage dealers who have Bronya feeding them turns. Ropes aren't quite that narrow though - supports basically all take regen ropes, but attack ropes get used for damage dealers since a lot of them do more damage with things other than their ultimates.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    One thing Sparkle is changing though is the need for DPS to run Speed boots all the time. More build variety options is a good thing, makes more relics useful

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    One build I'm curious to try is Chunkliu. It's where Jingliu is built focused entirely on damage stats with absolutely no Speed whatsoever in combination with Fast Sparkle and Bronya together to haul her up to the plate repeatedly and unleash hell, since SP isn't a concern

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited March 1
    I think using Bronya and Sparkle does depend on the last member to be SP positive by a fair bit though, since Bronya's at -1 and Jingliu is slightly negative (-.33/-.4 I think depending on burst timing). Sparkle can offset Jingliu, but then you need your forth slot to feed a lot of SP, or be getting it via light cones or something else.

    Polaritie on
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    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    I think using Bronya and Sparkle does depend on the last member to be SP positive by a fair bit though, since Bronya's at -1 and Jingliu is... somewhere between -.5 and -1 there?

    I'm thinking Luocha since Jingliu moving that much is gonna be shaving health off everyone with a quickness

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    FryFry Registered User regular
    I don't think Black Swan is that desperate for SPD, since her damage is mostly from the DOT that never wears off (so you don't have to worry about applying or reapplying it).

    I think there are plenty of characters that don't want energy recharge rope, because it doesn't change how many turns it takes for their ultimate to show up, so they'd much rather have more ATK all the time or whatever other stat.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Fry wrote: »
    I don't think Black Swan is that desperate for SPD, since her damage is mostly from the DOT that never wears off (so you don't have to worry about applying or reapplying it).

    I think there are plenty of characters that don't want energy recharge rope, because it doesn't change how many turns it takes for their ultimate to show up, so they'd much rather have more ATK all the time or whatever other stat.

    Her ultimate spikes the damage of it a fair bit though, and her own turn does pile on stacks, so...

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    It's really only only support characters who want energy ropes. Maybe Argenti and Jingliu, but even then I doubt it's optimal. DPS characters just need too many different stats.

    Speed boots have been wanted by every character not named Clara, Seele (possibly barring her signature LC), and maybe Dan IL/Qingque. But that may have just changed for Sparkle-havers, or at least running no speed on DPS characters is now an option.

    ...putting these two thoughts together, I wonder if the option of using attack boots on characters could now open up the possibility of using an ER rope.

    I was thinking about this for my E2 Daniel, since his 3SP attack is a huge chunk of energy and it does push his ult up to be available one turn sooner.

    So you'd ult, turn advance free Fulgrant Leap, and assuming nothing died and you didn't get hit, you're at 53.73 energy with ERR rope. (45 without)

    Without ERR rope, assuming no adds die and you don't get hit, you're looking at three attacks after the free turn from ult no matter what.

    Then two Fulgrant Leaps after that bring you to 149.25 (Technically, one Fulgrant Leap and one Divine Spear is enough, which I guess is nice because even if you want to Fulgrant Leap every single time shit happens sometimes and turns can line up bad depending on who you're using)

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited March 1
    It's really only only support characters who want energy ropes. Maybe Argenti and Jingliu, but even then I doubt it's optimal. DPS characters just need too many different stats.

    Speed boots have been wanted by every character not named Clara, Seele (possibly barring her signature LC), and maybe Dan IL/Qingque. But that may have just changed for Sparkle-havers, or at least running no speed on DPS characters is now an option.

    ...putting these two thoughts together, I wonder if the option of using attack boots on characters could now open up the possibility of using an ER rope.

    I have def boots on Trailblazer and speed boots on Clara. We contain multitudes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Shadowfire on
    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Generally when people are talking about stuff like that, they're talking about optimization

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    GarickGarick Registered User regular
    So, what if Sparkle, Bronya and Seele? Would the enemies ever get a turn?

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited March 2
    Garick wrote: »
    So, what if Sparkle, Bronya and Seele? Would the enemies ever get a turn?

    I think that burns out on SP dangerously fast, since you have to be south of -2 with those three. Alternating Seele attack/skill would keep her buff active but do less damage (but also, not be as horrifically negative on SP)

    Polaritie on
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