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[Honkai: Star Rail] When the sun sets we will not forget the Black Swan over paradise

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    E6 Qingque means you now possess godlike power in the Simulated Universe modes

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    https://hsr.hoyoverse.com/gift?code=KBQBEP3L8823

    More primos for your debt pile.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    Bleh.

    Had to go all the way to 150ish to get Topaz, lost 50/50 to completely useless Yanqing. Stole Dan Heng's crap cowboy gear and put it on her and promptly got 71k points in the new game mode with a lvl 76 Topaz who has lvl 5 traces. Full team was Clara, Luocha, Kafka and her - Kafka is of course a bit of an odd one out without dot support but her ult is good AE even if there's no other dots and she reliably does a FUA every turn. Seemed to work well enough.

    Only thing I'm not happy about (besides losing the 50/50) is how fragile she seems, I can barely get her to 2900 hp with 900ish DEF even with a lvl 15 hat. She's gonna die a few times at unfortunate times for sure.

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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    Mirkel wrote: »
    Only thing I'm not happy about (besides losing the 50/50) is how fragile she seems, I can barely get her to 2900 hp with 900ish DEF even with a lvl 15 hat. She's gonna die a few times at unfortunate times for sure.

    I think I saw that she has one of the lowest base HP values in the game, so yeah, that sounds about right. Hunt characters inherently don't get targeted as frequently as other characters though, and it's also mitigated a bit if you pair her with Clara. Just, uhh, maybe don't make her stand next to Clara.

    I picked her up on my alt account that I'm playing with. Might still get her on the real account, too, though... we'll see. I'm definitely more interested in getting her than either of the next couple characters. And I need to at least get Guinaifen.

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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    So I notice some relics already come with four mods and others only come with 2-3. Is this going to be one of those situations where I shouldn't bother investing too much in anything that doesn't already have 4 mods, or will they all eventually have the same max number after a point?

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    MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    edited October 2023
    Donnicton wrote: »
    So I notice some relics already come with four mods and others only come with 2-3. Is this going to be one of those situations where I shouldn't bother investing too much in anything that doesn't already have 4 mods, or will they all eventually have the same max number after a point?

    4 mods vs 3 mods just means you get one extra for free, it's not as big deal as what those substats are. A relic with ATK%, CRIT% and CRTDMG% as the three subs is way better than a relic with 4 junk substats, unless it rolls a crap 4th and then just rolls that 4th stat again and again and again. The lower rarity relics on the other hand will never be as good, but sometimes 4* SPD boots is better than no SPD boots at all.

    On Topaz and survivability, I realized if I buy her that Herta shop 5* LC (or 4.5*, they aren't quite as good as real 5* LCs), that at least increases her DEF a fair amount. Looking at Prydwen's guides it seems like Swordplay might be better though.

    Mirkel on
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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    So I notice some relics already come with four mods and others only come with 2-3. Is this going to be one of those situations where I shouldn't bother investing too much in anything that doesn't already have 4 mods, or will they all eventually have the same max number after a point?

    How many substats a relic starts with is based on their rarity, and then should only vary by 1 within that rarity. So 5 star ones should have either 3 or 4 substats. They get an extra substat roll every time you give them 3 levels though. So the way I think of it, instead of it being 3 stats vs 4, it's more like 8 stats vs 9, when they are at +15. Not much of a difference, really.

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    initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    Oh neat little technical quirk. There’s a gap, where the old banner countdown ends and the only thing on that screen is the standard banner for a minute or two.

    Hey guinafen first 10 pull. That’s basically all I had in reserve lol, will probably get another spin or two this patch

    initiatefailure on
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    2x Luka, 3x Guin, 1x Topaz out of... 50 or 60 pulls? I'll take that, that's a lot of upgrade to Kafka shenanigans.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    I just got randomly attacked and sworn vendetta on by some public property police yelling that every time I break a destructible object in the world that's three hours of overtime someone has to work to replace them. This game.

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    Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Not a doctor Tree townRegistered User regular
    20 pulls, 3 Sushangs (E4 now), 1 Perfect Timing, 1 Guinaifen. I guess I can save the other 20 pulls for another time.

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    SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    Managed Topaz off the 50/50; there's supposed to be a follow-up focused relic set coming out next patch? Wondering how much of a waste it is pulling for relics for her now.

    PSN SeGaTai
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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    SeGaTai wrote: »
    Managed Topaz off the 50/50; there's supposed to be a follow-up focused relic set coming out next patch? Wondering how much of a waste it is pulling for relics for her now.

    I think she can get by with the ol Musketeers for the time being. Maybe two pieces of the fire set if you got those kicking around. I don't think it's worth specifically farming anything for her yet.

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    SaldonasSaldonas See you space cowboy...Registered User regular
    I'm still sad that me and my two buddies all lost our 50/50s on the Jingliu banner. Topaz seems rather uninspiring but I guess I'll look up how well she plays with Jing Yuan. If anything I'd almost be more tempted to roll for Seele's light cone.

    Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/carthuun
    Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    New SU event in a nutshell:

    "Give me all the curios and blessings you have. Now... I worry what you just heard was give me a lot of curios and blessings? What I said was... give me all the curios and blessings you have.".

    I got Topaz but no gear for her, so I just took Clara with the Elation path. The final challenge wants you to clear it with 50,000 points? I got 97,000.

    That SU event that has you running around destroying as many barrels as possible, is there a 4* that's good at it? Supposedly the 5* Dan Hung is the go-to to cheese it, but I don't have him. I guess the secret is just somebody with the lowest lag on their basic attack. And actually Topaz's is a real quick ranged gunshot, but it has no AE to it. Still couldn't manage the last few barrels.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    SaldonasSaldonas See you space cowboy...Registered User regular
    If you don't have Lunae, I think Kafka is pretty good. She's got a huge AoE. I think Jingliu is supposed to be good too because her frost aura technique breaks barrels I think? I don't have her to confirm though.

    Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/carthuun
    Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Saldonas wrote: »
    If you don't have Lunae, I think Kafka is pretty good. She's got a huge AoE. I think Jingliu is supposed to be good too because her frost aura technique breaks barrels I think? I don't have her to confirm though.

    I have Kafka and she's great for the trotter one. And I guess she might be good for the barrels because as you say, her technique is stupidly huge. I just wish there were a few 4*'s that can also get the job done.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    Saldonas wrote: »
    If you don't have Lunae, I think Kafka is pretty good. She's got a huge AoE. I think Jingliu is supposed to be good too because her frost aura technique breaks barrels I think? I don't have her to confirm though.

    I have Kafka and she's great for the trotter one. And I guess she might be good for the barrels because as you say, her technique is stupidly huge. I just wish there were a few 4*'s that can also get the job done.

    I think Qingque is good at it? Very low lag ranged attack. Jingliu is unquestionably the best choice at it

    Polaritie on
    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    Surprisingly, Asta is great at both adventure modes. Her regular attack has huge range, and also chains to 2-3 other targets.

    uyvfOQy.png
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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    Asta is the go-to for all of the adventure stages. She's a character everyone has who has a super quick, long range, very big attack. She can clear all of the adventure stages in swarm disaster by herself. Yes, even the one in the station; her attack can hit the jars across the gap at the end.

    Now, in the new event, I guess I don't know for certain. The one I encountered today was not laid out exactly the same as the one in swarm disaster, and also I kept getting interrupted by the curio going off. She can probably still do it?

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Current best set for Topaz is 2pc Fire/2pc Musketeer, but I wouldn't go out of your way to farm for her until next patch

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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Current best set for Topaz is 2pc Fire/2pc Musketeer, but I wouldn't go out of your way to farm for her until next patch

    Fortunately, I run Himeko a lot because she's E1, and so I have quite a number of floating usable pieces.

    Now I just have to roll her, which isn't super likely.

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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    I managed to pull Topaz, with enough left over to attempt some pulls for her light cone. And there's the five star Hunt light cone screen...!

    Sleep Like the Dead.

    The streak of pulling nothing but garbage and dupes continues.

    uyvfOQy.png
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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Poor Sampo, already power crept

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Mirkel wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    So I notice some relics already come with four mods and others only come with 2-3. Is this going to be one of those situations where I shouldn't bother investing too much in anything that doesn't already have 4 mods, or will they all eventually have the same max number after a point?

    4 mods vs 3 mods just means you get one extra for free, it's not as big deal as what those substats are. A relic with ATK%, CRIT% and CRTDMG% as the three subs is way better than a relic with 4 junk substats, unless it rolls a crap 4th and then just rolls that 4th stat again and again and again. The lower rarity relics on the other hand will never be as good, but sometimes 4* SPD boots is better than no SPD boots at all.

    On Topaz and survivability, I realized if I buy her that Herta shop 5* LC (or 4.5*, they aren't quite as good as real 5* LCs), that at least increases her DEF a fair amount. Looking at Prydwen's guides it seems like Swordplay might be better though.

    Herta shop is her second best LC, Swordplay a very close third according to Grimro. Both need to be S5.

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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    New SU event in a nutshell:

    "Give me all the curios and blessings you have. Now... I worry what you just heard was give me a lot of curios and blessings? What I said was... give me all the curios and blessings you have.".

    I got Topaz but no gear for her, so I just took Clara with the Elation path. The final challenge wants you to clear it with 50,000 points? I got 97,000.

    That SU event that has you running around destroying as many barrels as possible, is there a 4* that's good at it? Supposedly the 5* Dan Hung is the go-to to cheese it, but I don't have him. I guess the secret is just somebody with the lowest lag on their basic attack. And actually Topaz's is a real quick ranged gunshot, but it has no AE to it. Still couldn't manage the last few barrels.

    Bronya can hit some of the cross-platform barrels right out the starting door at about the range she can no-alert Trotters, for what it's worth.

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    SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    Herta shop hunt cone is real finicky for making it trigger, think it's just the only thing you can reliably superimpose though

    PSN SeGaTai
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    SeGaTai wrote: »
    Herta shop hunt cone is real finicky for making it trigger, think it's just the only thing you can reliably superimpose though

    Yeah, the conditions on it are kind of eh, but it's still a 5* stat stick and always gives at least some crit rate.

    Polaritie on
    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    wkzlz6ejq8nh.png

    Nice.

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    MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    Mirkel wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    So I notice some relics already come with four mods and others only come with 2-3. Is this going to be one of those situations where I shouldn't bother investing too much in anything that doesn't already have 4 mods, or will they all eventually have the same max number after a point?

    4 mods vs 3 mods just means you get one extra for free, it's not as big deal as what those substats are. A relic with ATK%, CRIT% and CRTDMG% as the three subs is way better than a relic with 4 junk substats, unless it rolls a crap 4th and then just rolls that 4th stat again and again and again. The lower rarity relics on the other hand will never be as good, but sometimes 4* SPD boots is better than no SPD boots at all.

    On Topaz and survivability, I realized if I buy her that Herta shop 5* LC (or 4.5*, they aren't quite as good as real 5* LCs), that at least increases her DEF a fair amount. Looking at Prydwen's guides it seems like Swordplay might be better though.

    Herta shop is her second best LC, Swordplay a very close third according to Grimro. Both need to be S5.

    My Swordplay is S4. Guess it is totally useless, then. :o

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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    Most of the calcs I've seen seem to be assuming that the Herta shop LC will have full uptime on its attack buff, which seems... a little difficult, for a Hunt character who isn't Seele and is often being paired with another DPS. It's definitely a great option for her, but I think in practical scenarios, Swordplay will outperform it. It's tricky to compare different superimpositions, though. Will an S3 Swordplay hold up against an S5 Cruising? I have no idea.

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    MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    Most of the calcs I've seen seem to be assuming that the Herta shop LC will have full uptime on its attack buff, which seems... a little difficult, for a Hunt character who isn't Seele and is often being paired with another DPS. It's definitely a great option for her, but I think in practical scenarios, Swordplay will outperform it. It's tricky to compare different superimpositions, though. Will an S3 Swordplay hold up against an S5 Cruising? I have no idea.

    When I saw the calcs assuming full uptime I instantly decided to go for Swordplay, there's no way in hell I'm going to micromanage Topaz to ensure she gets the minion kills. Doesn't help that the Herta shop 5* LCs don't get a full 5* stat budget, they aren't nearly as good as the "real" 5* LCs.

    So she gets a S4 Swordplay once I have spare materials to ascend it, right now she's using Dan's old Only Silence Remains. I actually would've liked to use the Herta store LC for the added DEF but if it really relies on 100% uptime to be barely better than Swordplay then in practice it's probably going to be a lot worse.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    I mean, even if you have perfect uptime on Cruising or Swordplay it's not going to make much of a difference since Topaz is not a DPS. She's like Silver Wolf, she can contribute some damage but she's not going to be the hypercarry without significant investment in Eidolons. And if someone goes that route they'd get her signature LC.

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    MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    I mean, even if you have perfect uptime on Cruising or Swordplay it's not going to make much of a difference since Topaz is not a DPS. She's like Silver Wolf, she can contribute some damage but she's not going to be the hypercarry without significant investment in Eidolons. And if someone goes that route they'd get her signature LC.

    She does a lot more damage than SW. Assuming these Prydwen calculations are correct, she (E0) does higher dps against single target than Jingliu (E0). SW does less than half of her damage. Not to mention these calculations have made with Topaz using 0 SP, SW using 12 SP and Jingliu using 6 SP. To me she looks like a great SP positive sub-dps, it's not like she wants any other stats than dps stats anyways.

    I've never really understood the mentality that any dps not from a hypercarry is somehow completely useless. Seen it a bunch in other games as well, it always feels like a fundamentally flawed way of thinking.

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    initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    If you’re not first you’re last

    - every gacha tier list ever

    initiatefailure on
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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    You are aware that those "calculations" are all simulations and they explicitly say to not use them as fact because in actual gameplay there's a ton of variables that change the numbers, right? It even adds a specific disclaimer for Topaz. Not to mention all these numbers are taken directly from Grimro's actual calculations without any explanation. If you want to look at the actual calculations: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sxb1KnF3fB3JvhZ3CI0_rGcp5B0c_JftwIrHW_7xsv4/edit#gid=482395997

    Also I didn't say any DPS is useless if it's not from a hypercarry, I said focusing on DPS for a Support is missing the entire point of a Support because they are there to support everyone else on the team. Their individual damage doesn't matter in comparison to how much damage they enable the hypercarry to do. This is why if you look at Prydwen's tier list, since you seem intent on using them as an example for whatever reason, Silver Wolf is still a tier ahead of Topaz in every category.

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    Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    Not sure what I should pull for this period, the fire chars don't really fit into any of my teams...

    Honestly considering just throwing jades away all week trying to get Seele her sig LC to replace the Herta one.

    There was a steam sig here. It's gone now.
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    MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    edited October 2023
    I know SW is a better character, I use her all the time. Topaz does way more damage. Those are two different things. And I still don't see what's the point in chanting "Topaz is not a hypercarry so only her support abilities matter" when it's not true and she deals a considerable amount of damage. Also you can't increase her support abilities with LCs* or relics so you might as well go for max dps. What else there is to focus on when building her?

    *Ok I guess you could give her Return to Darkness if you don't care one whit about her personal dps and just think she's there to add a debuff and twiddle her thumbs in a supportive manner.

    ETA: We don't even have her real relic set yet, which should further increase her damage. They are still making changes to it but AFAIK it should be a decent upgrade unless they totally nerf it before it goes live.

    Mirkel on
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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    You seem to keep reading Prydwen guides and mistaking them for my posts, because nothing you claim I've said is something I actually said.

    Also, just to be clear, tier lists are stupid and reductive. You saying Silver Wolf is a better character than Topaz is a perfect example of why.

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    Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    Finished my first ever Perfect Clear of MoC just now thanks to Jingliu providing a nitro boost to my ice team. Easily the best dps output I have now.

    There was a steam sig here. It's gone now.
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