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[Honkai: Star Rail] When the sun sets we will not forget the Black Swan over paradise

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Double Edit: Acheron's animations might be the coolest thing in the game, and also make it extra confusing that she's not just Quantum. Nothing Lightning here at all.

    I was expecting Acheron's animations to be awesome, and boy, they do not disappoint. It still very much remains to be seen how strong the new characters are, so it's too early to talk of power creep, but we definitely have some animation creep.

    I'd argue that Hanya was the start of the animation creep.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Double Edit: Acheron's animations might be the coolest thing in the game, and also make it extra confusing that she's not just Quantum. Nothing Lightning here at all.

    I was expecting Acheron's animations to be awesome, and boy, they do not disappoint. It still very much remains to be seen how strong the new characters are, so it's too early to talk of power creep, but we definitely have some animation creep.

    I'd argue that Hanya was the start of the animation creep.

    I don't remember, did she come out before or after Guin? She's pretty bad too.

    The animations are cool, Hoyo, but an active player is gonna be seeing them hundreds if not thousands of times. Come on.

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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    So distract myself from 2.1 leaks, I started thinking about how to build Sparkle and the characters she supports, in terms of Speed. What do you guys think? If Sparkle is up to 2x faster than your DPS, then she can advance up their turn like Bronya. So you could potentially build a slow DPS (Attack boots), and have her super fast to boost them up. Is that how most people expect to use her? I think that makes sense if trying to use her with the SP-guzzlers, Qingque or Dragon Dan. This is important info; no matter what, I don't think 129 speed will be optimal for Qingque anymore. Although if I rebuild her, I'd feel a little bad for people selecting her as a support who don't have Sparkle.

    For the non-SP guzzlers, there's also the possibility of building the DPS to be faster than Sparkle. Ideally if they were 1.5x faster than her, then they should perfectly get two actions for each of her turns. Anywhere up to 1.5x, they'd still get full value from her action advance the first time, but they'd get out of sync the more turns pass.

    Also thinking about paring her with Bronya for the characters who only need one skill point per turn, like Xueyi or Jing Yuan. I think that definitely works out best if the DPS is slower than the other two; regardless of which of the two harmonies is faster, it should work out so the DPS gets 2x the actions of the others. If the DPS is faster, then I don't think Sparkle's action advance will help give them any more turns. Either way, if all three characters are spamming skills, your team will almost certainly have skill point issues. Unless maybe if your sustain is a super fast Luocha using Multiplication. Or if both Harmony characters were using Bronya's LC.

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Me: I'm saving for Sam. He's our man!

    Me after seeing Acheron's animations: ... Fuck.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    So distract myself from 2.1 leaks, I started thinking about how to build Sparkle and the characters she supports, in terms of Speed. What do you guys think? If Sparkle is up to 2x faster than your DPS, then she can advance up their turn like Bronya. So you could potentially build a slow DPS (Attack boots), and have her super fast to boost them up. Is that how most people expect to use her? I think that makes sense if trying to use her with the SP-guzzlers, Qingque or Dragon Dan. This is important info; no matter what, I don't think 129 speed will be optimal for Qingque anymore. Although if I rebuild her, I'd feel a little bad for people selecting her as a support who don't have Sparkle.

    For the non-SP guzzlers, there's also the possibility of building the DPS to be faster than Sparkle. Ideally if they were 1.5x faster than her, then they should perfectly get two actions for each of her turns. Anywhere up to 1.5x, they'd still get full value from her action advance the first time, but they'd get out of sync the more turns pass.

    Also thinking about paring her with Bronya for the characters who only need one skill point per turn, like Xueyi or Jing Yuan. I think that definitely works out best if the DPS is slower than the other two; regardless of which of the two harmonies is faster, it should work out so the DPS gets 2x the actions of the others. If the DPS is faster, then I don't think Sparkle's action advance will help give them any more turns. Either way, if all three characters are spamming skills, your team will almost certainly have skill point issues. Unless maybe if your sustain is a super fast Luocha using Multiplication. Or if both Harmony characters were using Bronya's LC.

    I'm personally a little curious about the potential of something like Bronya/Sparkle/Swan/Huohuo and just kind of constantly driving Swan's turns forward on top of a ton of damage buffs. Get Swan's ult rolling and just have her take multiple turns per round driving up Arcana herself.

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    I'll definitely be considering the possibility of Atk boots on my boy Daniel

    Even moreso because he's E2 so he has that ult turn advance on top of it

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    initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    I couldn’t figure out why my DHIL was doing such bad damage. My jingliu had the light cone…

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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    We've got double planar ornaments coming again starting tomorrow, bank those immersifiers accordingly.

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    LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    We've got double planar ornaments coming again starting tomorrow, bank those immersifiers accordingly.

    Thanks for the heads up. I was planning on doing that tonight but I can wait a day.

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    MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    AI Gui starting with her ult and then right away using her skill next never ceases to be agonizingly unfunny.

    Anyways, I'm kind of running out of things to use stamina on. I've been leveling up various semi-useful traces that weren't capped, like Kafka's skill and FUA. That's always useful at least but it's about as exciting as my day job. I guess ... I could build Herta? She's the only unbuilt character I have I'm even lukewarmly interested in, now that she has a useful niche. Day 1 player "problems".

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    LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Mirkel wrote: »
    AI Gui starting with her ult and then right away using her skill next never ceases to be agonizingly unfunny.

    Anyways, I'm kind of running out of things to use stamina on. I've been leveling up various semi-useful traces that weren't capped, like Kafka's skill and FUA. That's always useful at least but it's about as exciting as my day job. I guess ... I could build Herta? She's the only unbuilt character I have I'm even lukewarmly interested in, now that she has a useful niche. Day 1 player "problems".

    You could lend your excess stamina to me.

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    initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    yeah i'm kinda running out of stamina uses for characters i care about. i've been getting a couple people up to lvl 10s for the hell of it the past few weeks. I suppose eventually i have to go back to the gear mines but i really don't wanna

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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    I would say that I'm at the point where I'm content with all of the characters I care to use, but there's still lots of improvements I could do, even ignoring marginal relic upgrades.

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    I was gonna say, the relic grind never ends.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Guys I need so much stamina. I'm taking donations.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    I just run cash dungeon if I can't figure out what I want to spend daily stamina on or if I just want to blow it and be done for the day

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    MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    I was gonna say, the relic grind never ends.

    It ends for me when I don't want to grind any more. Which depending on character is somewhere between crap and mediocre relics for me.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    I decided to build Herta just because why not. She'll be fun in Pure Fiction for a while to come.

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    initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    love double rewards week.

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    this is a totally reasonable game system that's certainly not weighted against us.

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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    Yeah I just finished my 12 and got all garbage. Bizarrely including like three ER ropes for sets that would never use that.

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    FryFry Registered User regular
    I know all the guides say that every character that is even partially a DPS character should use Glamoth, but I can't even get to 135 speed, much less 160. And the other ornament from that world seems kinda garbo. Think I'm going to keep farming world 3, those have speed thresholds I can plausibly hit, and both of them are decently useful and not that much worse than the "best" options.

    I'm still getting all defensive main stats for the DPS set and all offensive stats for the support set, of course

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    LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Fry wrote: »
    I know all the guides say that every character that is even partially a DPS character should use Glamoth, but I can't even get to 135 speed, much less 160. And the other ornament from that world seems kinda garbo. Think I'm going to keep farming world 3, those have speed thresholds I can plausibly hit, and both of them are decently useful and not that much worse than the "best" options.

    I'm still getting all defensive main stats for the DPS set and all offensive stats for the support set, of course

    I'm absolutely not an expert but from what I was looking at for Dragon Dan and Dr Ratio Glamoth is like a 1% increase over other options at max speed.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Yeah Glamoth isn't a super big upgrade if you've already got decent stuff.

    Also, one thing if you have Ruan Mei, remember that thanks to one of her Traces she effectively can boost your entire team by an average of 10+ Speed so you'd only need about 125 Speed to trigger Glamoth in battle

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    MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    My super lazy solution is Salsotto for any dps doing crits and Pan-Cosmic for the dotters.

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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    There's a reason why I put off making any effort at getting Glamoth pieces for a long time. It's an upgrade for a bunch of characters, but so small of one that it really shouldn't be high priority. And I could definitely see it being even lower priority before you already have a good base of relics, since as mentioned, getting to 135 speed is not trivial. Even if it's basically something that pretty much every dps character wants to do anyway.

    ...although this once again makes me wonder if this is going to change for people rolling for Sparkle. I'm very much interested in building her to be super fast and letting the DPS character be slow, in which case Glamoth is not an option.

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Mirkel wrote: »
    My super lazy solution is Salsotto for any dps doing crits and Pan-Cosmic for the dotters.

    The problem with Pan-Cosmic is that it shares with Celestial Differentiator which sucks for everybody. I'm much happier getting good Herta ornaments and calling it a day.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    I gave up on finding an upgrade for Xueyi and just dropped some Attack to add a bit of Crit Chance/Damage. I guess it'll have to do for now.

    Finished Gepard only to find out he's useless for the only thing I needed him for. So that's great.

    I guess it's on to Bronya now, which will probably also wind up useless, as I've got nobody to actually use her with. I guess she'll just sit there until I pull a non-dot dps.

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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Finished Gepard only to find out he's useless for the only thing I needed him for. So that's great.

    I guess it's on to Bronya now, which will probably also wind up useless, as I've got nobody to actually use her with. I guess she'll just sit there until I pull a non-dot dps.

    I'll bite. What did you want to use Gepard for? He's generally still pretty effective these days. I've absolutely seen him get the job done in the current MoC, given that there are multiple new enemies who encourage using sheilds over healing.

    I also struggle to understand the Bronya comment. I could see her not being the best in dot teams, since they usually run more than one dps, but she should be effective in any team that is prioritizing the damage output of one character, including Xueyi! I suppose I could see it if you were planning to roll for Sparkle, but even then, I guarantee that Bronya will continue to be a great character even after she has some competition.

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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited February 24
    I was hoping Gepard would help with Gold & Gears in a double sustain team, but I've still gotten one shot through his shield. Or two shot, with no time to recharge his Ult. It seems like he's no replacement for Fu in any situation. I don't think I'd bring him to MoC either, he's got no cleanse and everything constantly uses crowd control now. I had to retire Bailu and start using Lynx full time because of that.

    I love Xueyi, but there's nowhere to really use her right now. I just bulldoze regular SU with her and Topaz for fun, mostly. Nothing's weak to Quantum at the moment, so unless you're bringing Silver Wolf (and possibly Ruan Mei, which means dot team doesn't get her) and planning around that, she's not breaking most of the time. And I already cleared MoC anyway, so no reason to attempt using her there. She's way too sqiushy for G&G, four stars that aren't built for HP/DEF die super easily there.

    I don't think Bronya would fit with Topaz and Ratio either, and trying her with Dan seems like a surefire way to have zero skill points. Those two also want to churn through skill points as well. I don't think I have any other dps actually. Edit: Clara, who doesn't work with Bronya for obvious reasons.

    I guess building Yanqing would suddenly make both Gepard and Bronya relevant, but that sounds like a horrible idea.

    Reynolds on
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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    Reynolds wrote: »
    I was hoping Gepard would help with Gold & Gears in a double sustain team, but I've still gotten one shot through his shield. Or two shot, with no time to recharge his Ult. It seems like he's no replacement for Fu in any situation. I don't think I'd bring him to MoC either, he's got no cleanse and everything constantly uses crowd control now. I had to retire Bailu and start using Lynx full time because of that.

    I love Xueyi, but there's nowhere to really use her right now. I just bulldoze regular SU with her and Topaz for fun, mostly. Nothing's weak to Quantum at the moment, so unless you're bringing Silver Wolf (and possibly Ruan Mei, which means dot team doesn't get her) and planning around that, she's not breaking most of the time. And I already cleared MoC anyway, so no reason to attempt using her there. She's way too sqiushy for G&G, four stars that aren't built for HP/DEF die super easily there.

    I don't think Bronya would fit with Topaz and Ratio either, and trying her with Dan seems like a surefire way to have zero skill points. Those two also want to churn through skill points as well. I don't think I have any other dps actually. Edit: Clara, who doesn't work with Bronya for obvious reasons.

    I guess building Yanqing would suddenly make both Gepard and Bronya relevant, but that sounds like a horrible idea.

    - I have to preface this by saying that I don't have Gepard, so anything I say about him is either based on stuff I've watched, theory, or the bit I played with him on an alt account. If you have Fu, he's probably not necessary for SU stuff unless you are running Preservation path. But, there is an extremely clear situation where he is worth using, and that's when you pick up the split damage Destruction blessing. That blessing ruins Fu, but it's still so good that it can be worth it to pick it and ditch her. I almost always pick up an alt sustain the first time I see a downloader just to have that option on the table. Outside of the SU, saying that everything has CC is hyperbole. I know you've already done it, but using the current MoC as reference, the only enemy in MoC 11 and 12 that has any CC is the Aurumaton Gatekeeper in 12-1, so that's three potential teams where he could have been used (and even then, he's probably fine on 12-1, but I could see the gatekeeper causing some resets). Admittedly, I did just realize that they put Kafka with the Gorilla on MoC10, which is pretty mean.

    - Yeah, no denying we're currently in a drought of quantum weakness. Hoping that comes around a bit after Sparkle's release, but at least Silver Wolf is an option. Xueyi's definitely not too squishy for G&G, but choosing when to use her might be difficult... like, she can work in an Elation team, but there's no way you'd use her there over Topaz or Dr. Ratio. She's probably at her best in Hunt or Destruction, but those are probably the two most difficult paths to use in the highest difficulties. Anyway, Xueyi being situational is kinda independent of Bronya. Any time you want to make a team that features a single DPS character who isn't Clara, Bronya should be good. Dan IL is the next closest to being an exception because of the SP issue you mentioned, but you can still use her effectively with him. Like by building her really fast, so that she can use basic attacks every other turn. Maybe one of the other Dan players on this forum can comment on this? I know we have a few.

    - I agree with you that building Yanqing is not a great idea. Although his damage output is honestly pretty good, there's enough caveats that I don't really consider him to be worth it. Besides of course for people who get him early and don't really have other options.

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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    I do not have Fu, otherwise I'd be having zero problems with basically any content. Gepard isn't even good on Preservation path, which is baffling. You get an extra turn or two of life, but everything puts out so much damage that it doesn't really matter. Related to that, four stars are absolutely too squishy to survive G&G. I have to be cracking a hundred runs by now, and I've definitely tried a few just to mix things up. Except for things like March or running full defensive stats on everything, their numbers are just too low to survive anything.

    I'm not lucky enough to be running 160+ speed on anything, so that's not happening. I could maybe hit 150 and run Ruan Mei, but that still takes her away from another team. And that was also my point, I don't have any DPS that wants to run solo.

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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    Alright, lets clear this up. What exactly are you running in Gold & Gears? Specifically trying to do Conundrum 10 runs with all the weaker dice? When you're at that level of difficulty, I can certainly see the weaker characters falling off... but I still don't get the "4* characters are too squishy" thing. Xueyi has more HP and defense than Seele, and she doesn't compare unfavorably to Topaz or Dr. Ratio either. Qingque is tougher than Argenti and about equivalent to Himeko. Even if we agree that 4* characters have less stats on average than 5* ones, it's not nearly enough of a difference for them to be non viable, considering one decent defensive blessing makes their difference negligible.

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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited February 24
    All I have left to do are the 4-5 nearly useless dice, yes. I've made zero progress...probably this whole month? Doing a run or five a day.

    All of my 4 star characters have 4 star Light Cones, which might be an important note here. I don't have enough 5 star LCs to go around, even some 5 star characters have to make do.

    Reynolds on
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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    Reynolds wrote: »
    All of my 4 star characters have 4 star Light Cones, which might be an important note here. I don't have enough 5 star LCs to go around, even some 5 star characters have to make do.

    This is certainly a big factor to their difference, but it's kinda moot to me. I don't have any limited light cones, so I frequently need to trade around the few decent ones that I have. I would assume that any Destruction character not named Blade is using On the Fall of an Aeon, which is certainly good enough. If Xueyi with that is unable to survive, then most 5* characters wouldn't be able to either.

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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    Maybe in a few more months I can afford the Gepard Light Cone, that might help.

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Glamoth is the "safe" option more often than the "best" option.

    Like, Daniel, Blade, QQ, and Jingliu want Rutilant Arena; Ratio, Topaz, Clara, JY wants Salsotto (Unless you're boosting him to 160+ SPD), Black Swan wants Pan-Galactic

    But Glamoth is good for almost everyone, so you can farm it without worrying

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Why no she does not look unhinged at all. I'm sure we can fix her.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpuQvbTwCWU

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    I don't think I like her at all.

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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    I'd be way more interested in school uniform and glasses actress Sparkle. A lot of these outfits are really starting to blend together. I guess that's the Hoyo style though.

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    AshtonDragonAshtonDragon AKA The Nix Registered User regular
    Yeah, I totally get it. It's okay, you can all let me roll for her, and select mine as a support when needed~

    Still having a really hard time deciding what I'm going to do after that. Still a chance I roll for her light cone. Still could see me saving for Acheron, Aventurine, or both. And if we ever get Sam...

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