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Penny Arcade - Comic - A More Perfect Union Buster

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A More Perfect Union Buster!

Penny Arcade - Comic - A More Perfect Union Buster

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited April 2023
    Robin Klimek, Hasbro's head of risk management, used to be an executive for Pinkertons. That's why they had that card in the rolodex.

    Beyond that, the facts as acknowledged by WotC and Hasbro is that the cards were ordered through proper channels and a distributor somehow substituted an upcoming similarly titled set. They really should have just declined comment because if this guy is smart those statements are a millstone on their necks.

    There's a few interpretations of the law in the US where you receive the incorrect item, but all of them involve the item you receive being your property upon receipt. You may wish to seek exchange for the intended item, you may choose to accept the substituted items... Some states have laws that let you demand both thanks to 80's predatory mail order marketers.

    The cards were covered by an NDA/release embargo, but that is a contract that designated recipients enter into before receiving embargoed items. And he did not enter into that contract, so he was not violating any contract when he shared his property with others.

    Hasbro stole this guy's property, interfered with his business, broke several laws I know of and probably plenty I don't just sending Pinkertons to the guy's house to do so, and they're responsible for any laws the Pinkertons broke (part of the reason they get away with so much is they leave their clients holding the bag when lawsuits come) and that sounds like several as well.

    And they used the Pinkertons because they know the guy has receipts if they try to use law enforcement (the police might have gone there and arrested him but it would have failed in court and the judge would return the property) and reputable security companies would simply give them a copy of their jurisdiction, pursuit, and use of force policies and tell them they need a lawyer to do what they're trying because it's not legal to use rent-a-cops. Pinkertons, meanwhile, have been known to provide fingers to confirm kills.


    Oh, by the way, the NDA for those people who got preview copies expires on May 2, nine days after the attack on this guy's home, and all 50 cards in the set were leaked more than a month ago. So great job WotC getting everybody pissed off for zero gain when they'd finally stopped talking about the last time you pissed them all off for zero gain. Trifecta in play?

    Hevach on
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    OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    Yeah WotC management seems obsessed with shooting themselves in the foot, I'm wondering when they'll go for the hat trick.

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    RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    I think WotC has decided they'd rather be feared than loved. They hate that streamers are a wild card, so like Nintendo they flex their power to keep the streamers scared.

    If they sent the guy an email with threats of legal action, he might read it on stream, and one of his viewers might be educated enough to poke holes in their position (which WotC has probably not researched the legality of).

    But when Booker Freaking DeWitt shows up at your house saying, "give us the cards and wipe away the debt", the kid is going to panic, and any other poor streamer who gets sent the wrong cards in the future is going to panic. So they maintain control.

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    BremenBremen Registered User regular
    edited April 2023
    I think WotC has decided they'd rather be feared than loved. They hate that streamers are a wild card, so like Nintendo they flex their power to keep the streamers scared.

    If they sent the guy an email with threats of legal action, he might read it on stream, and one of his viewers might be educated enough to poke holes in their position (which WotC has probably not researched the legality of).

    But when Booker Freaking DeWitt shows up at your house saying, "give us the cards and wipe away the debt", the kid is going to panic, and any other poor streamer who gets sent the wrong cards in the future is going to panic. So they maintain control.

    That seems like it might backfire if the streamer becomes mostly famous for suing them for millions of dollars.

    Bremen on
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    palidine40palidine40 Registered User regular
    Causing fear is not someones right, Pinkertons need to be sued into oblivion.

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    palidine40palidine40 Registered User regular
    Is this possibly an ACLU case?

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    palidine40 wrote: »
    Is this possibly an ACLU case?

    Institute for Justice is also very big on governments and corporations abusing gray laws to violate individual property rights.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Yeah it was fucking nutty that not only did they call in the pinkertons, they had a relationship with them. Like god damn.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Robin Klimek, Hasbro's head of risk management, used to be an executive for Pinkertons. That's why they had that card in the rolodex.

    "Risk management", heavy on the quote marks.

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    LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    x9lbl4zcs2v2.jpeg

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    GrendusGrendus Registered User regular
    You know, after watching the D&D movie I was somewhat sad about it's mediocre box office returns. It's a good movie, and the cast puts in an astoundingly good performance.

    After this fiasco, I'm kinda glad it didn't do well. Hasbro doesn't deserve a return on any of their properties or IP if they're going to pull this shit.

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    dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    From what I've heard, the D&D movie doing well is what Hasbro really needs to happen to show that there's a reason why they shouldn't just spin off WotC like so many of their shareholders want, because most of Hasbro's income is from WotC and they see Hasbro as dead weight. It's a "What would you say you do here?" kind of moment.

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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Honestly I hope Hasbro literally gets sued out of existence and have to sell all their IP off to other companies to meet debt obligations. You just don't get to send mercenaries to someone's house to steal their shit.

    steam_sig.png
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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Honestly I hope Hasbro literally gets sued out of existence and have to sell all their IP off to other companies to meet debt obligations. You just don't get to send mercenaries to someone's house to steal their shit.

    Dungeons, a division of Activision

    Dragons now property of BlackRock Securities

    &: a wholly-owned subsidiary of Itochu Corporation

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    "In the grim dark world of dragons, there is only dungeons."

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    LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    My Little Pony gets purchased by the fans

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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    edited April 2023
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    My Little Pony gets purchased by the fans
    Suspiciously wealthy Bronys are the heroes we deserve?

    zepherin on
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    ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    edited April 2023
    In all these situations, the intent of these people is to make you afraid first. Make you scared that you did something wrong, and if the "proper authorities" get involved, you're the one in trouble. It's a ruse as old a time. If strange men show up at your house and start demanding things, you shut the door and call the police. And do nothing until the police show up.

    If they set foot inside their house without permission, it's trespassing. Even if it's a literal foot. An assault is the reasonable fear of being attacked. Reading the article plus the update, it's clear that both occurred.

    I hope this guy has talked to both the police and a lawyer. You tell the police, or local sheriff what happened and that you want to press any applicable charges you can against anyone who was involved. Then you get the lawyer to start working on the civil stuff.

    Hit them from both ends. The civil stuff might be easier to tie up, but I guarantee a warrant being served for trespassing, assault, and potentially attempted battery is not going to be something that can go unanswered. Which is exactly why they DON'T want the police involved.

    ironzerg on
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    DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Jerry in the RX-7. My man. Thats the right choice.

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    RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    The problem with the legal system (lol, as if there were only one) is that at the moment literal hired goons are at your door, you have no idea what your rights are. You could refuse in the moment and see if they really can press charges or arrest you or whatever they are claiming they can do. Or you can comply and try suing later. Either way, you have to pony up vast amounts of cash (for you) to pursue any legal options at all, and this is all rolling the dice that you're actually in the right as far as the law is concerned. It's a dice roll for two reasons: one, because the law is so arcane no average person could ever expect to know it, and two, because even if you're legally in the right, some unelected judge in some random district could just rule against you anyway.

    Even if you have really good odds on those dice, the stakes are so much higher for you than for the corporation. They can take 10-1 odds on a loss that is already budgeted into their expected legal expenses. Can you take 10-1 odds on a case that will put you into eternal debt and wage garnishment for the rest of your life if you lose?

    Or do you just give the scary men at the door what they want and let the company break the law for free?

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    ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    That's what they want you to think. They have no authority, and the only reason they work is because they make you afraid to call the real authorities.

    There's is a big difference between civil and criminal law.

    Call the police.

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    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    If WotC had any integrity they would have already fired the fucker behind this.

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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    The problem with the legal system (lol, as if there were only one) is that at the moment literal hired goons are at your door, you have no idea what your rights are. You could refuse in the moment and see if they really can press charges or arrest you or whatever they are claiming they can do. Or you can comply and try suing later. Either way, you have to pony up vast amounts of cash (for you) to pursue any legal options at all, and this is all rolling the dice that you're actually in the right as far as the law is concerned. It's a dice roll for two reasons: one, because the law is so arcane no average person could ever expect to know it, and two, because even if you're legally in the right, some unelected judge in some random district could just rule against you anyway.

    Even if you have really good odds on those dice, the stakes are so much higher for you than for the corporation. They can take 10-1 odds on a loss that is already budgeted into their expected legal expenses. Can you take 10-1 odds on a case that will put you into eternal debt and wage garnishment for the rest of your life if you lose?

    Or do you just give the scary men at the door what they want and let the company break the law for free?

    I mean I'm pretty sure legally any person demanding to enter your house and take your stuff never has that right if they aren't law enforcement with a warrant or accompanied by law enforcement with a warrant (misuse and abuse of warrants and civil asset forfeiture aside).

    Now, in the moment, when armed goons show up at your door, probably best to let them in to do their thing in peace, but doing so doesn't make what they did not illegal. It just means that in court you get to say "yeah a bunch of armed goons showed up at my door and I feared for my life and didn't want bullets flying around my neighborhood, so I let them in to steal my stuff " in court.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there's several organizations salivating at the chance to represent this guy in court.

    steam_sig.png
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    MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    ironzerg wrote: »
    That's what they want you to think. They have no authority, and the only reason they work is because they make you afraid to call the real authorities.

    There's is a big difference between civil and criminal law.

    Call the police.

    Counterpoint, ACAB.

    To add a little more, for a good majority of the population nationwide and especially those drawn to D&D, the cops may at best just go along with the thugs or at worst shoot you dead "legally".

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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    ironzerg wrote: »
    That's what they want you to think. They have no authority, and the only reason they work is because they make you afraid to call the real authorities.

    There's is a big difference between civil and criminal law.

    Call the police.

    To do what? Turn up in an hour's time and shoot your dog because it looked at them funny?

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    ironzerg wrote: »
    That's what they want you to think. They have no authority, and the only reason they work is because they make you afraid to call the real authorities.

    There's is a big difference between civil and criminal law.

    Call the police.

    To do what? Turn up in an hour's time and shoot your dog because it looked at them funny?

    Or you, because you were armed with a cellphone?

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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    MichaelLC wrote: »
    ironzerg wrote: »
    That's what they want you to think. They have no authority, and the only reason they work is because they make you afraid to call the real authorities.

    There's is a big difference between civil and criminal law.

    Call the police.

    Counterpoint, ACAB.

    To add a little more, for a good majority of the population nationwide and especially those drawn to D&D, the cops may at best just go along with the thugs or at worst shoot you dead "legally".

    Yeah my very first thought is that if Pinkertons are on property and I call the cops, they'll just chat with each other back in their conglomeration of squad cars and hummers and trucks and discuss how they're gonna steal my shit together.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Yeah, dude needs a lawyer, not the cops.

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    RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    Hence my point that it does not matter if the law is on your side because even having a chance at justice is locked behind a paywall which, for most people, represents multiple *years* of income.

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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Honestly I hope Hasbro literally gets sued out of existence and have to sell all their IP off to other companies to meet debt obligations. You just don't get to send mercenaries to someone's house to steal their shit.

    During the movie it really irked me to see "Based on Hasbro's Dungeons & Dragons"

    They really want everyone to associate Hasbro and not the people or company that actually created it

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    ziddersroofurryziddersroofurry Registered User regular
    So this means PA will no longer associate with WotC, right?

    ...yeah. Somehow I really doubt that.

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    dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    edited May 2023
    So this means PA will no longer associate with WotC, right?

    ...yeah. Somehow I really doubt that.

    And you're no longer going to associate with the PA forums, which is owned by PA, which associates with WotC, right?

    dennis on
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    LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    Recursive guilt by association

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    MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    Did you know that Burts Bees is owned by Clorox?

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