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[Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom] thread, in which we regret catching These Hands

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Blake T wrote: »
    Some creatures need too many whacks to defeat. Silver bobkins and lizalfols just need to be whacked so much it often does feels you are burning resources at times. I’d prefer them to do more damage to me to then more dangerous rather than be damage sponges.

    Then the other option is to use ultra rare stuff, or bone/water warrior combos to do large amounts of damage.

    I strongly disagree, i find silver enemies pushovers. You have so many ways to instant kill them - just offhand, Puffshroom + Eightfold blade with something strong on it lets you one-shot even up to Silver Boss bobos. Biffing enemies into the drink is a one shot kill on everything that's not a lizfalos, and can easily be done with a two-handed stick and a mushroom for maximum boink. Freezing enemies is super easy to do, with a ton of convenient ways to do this (My personal favorite being the Frost Gleeok horn on a shield), that's a big damage multiplier right there.

    The bit about "using silver bobo horns as ammo" isn't me joking by the way - by the time I stopped playing i had 300+ of the fucking things, and i really was using them as arrow heads. They're 9 damage less than the much more annoying to get Gibdo bones. This is signifcant when you're using them from a multishot bow (you're missing an extra 45 damage assuming every arrow lands, before attack up multipliers), but generally not meaningufl against every other enemy.

    Generally any silver horn + Gnarled stick/Royal weapon = base 40+ damage weapon, Attack up 3 gives you closer to 60 attack, and Silvers have 720 hp. So you need 12 hits at most to clear them out, and usually a lot less because you can easily start working in things like water into lighting, flashbangs to steal their weapons, backstabs, flurry rushes (Royal weapons do digusting amounts hwen you flurry rush with them, and will melt any target, it's great).

    And that's all using the easiest to put together most basic Silverhorn + Stick weapon. It gets much easier when you start getting access to stuff like White/Silver Lynel horns, the Master Sword...There's so many ways to stack up damage I actually find the Bone/Water shennagins to be very pointless overkill. YMMV, though!

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    ButlerButler 89 episodes or bust Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    Blake T wrote: »
    Some creatures need too many whacks to defeat. Silver bobkins and lizalfols just need to be whacked so much it often does feels you are burning resources at times. I’d prefer them to do more damage to me to then more dangerous rather than be damage sponges.

    Then the other option is to use ultra rare stuff, or bone/water warrior combos to do large amounts of damage.

    I strongly disagree, i find silver enemies pushovers. You have so many ways to instant kill them - just offhand, Puffshroom + Eightfold blade with something strong on it lets you one-shot even up to Silver Boss bobos. Biffing enemies into the drink is a one shot kill on everything that's not a lizfalos, and can easily be done with a two-handed stick and a mushroom for maximum boink. Freezing enemies is super easy to do, with a ton of convenient ways to do this (My personal favorite being the Frost Gleeok horn on a shield), that's a big damage multiplier right there.

    The bit about "using silver bobo horns as ammo" isn't me joking by the way - by the time I stopped playing i had 300+ of the fucking things, and i really was using them as arrow heads. They're 9 damage less than the much more annoying to get Gibdo bones. This is signifcant when you're using them from a multishot bow (you're missing an extra 45 damage assuming every arrow lands, before attack up multipliers), but generally not meaningufl against every other enemy.

    Generally any silver horn + Gnarled stick/Royal weapon = base 40+ damage weapon, Attack up 3 gives you closer to 60 attack, and Silvers have 720 hp. So you need 12 hits at most to clear them out, and usually a lot less because you can easily start working in things like water into lighting, flashbangs to steal their weapons, backstabs, flurry rushes (Royal weapons do digusting amounts hwen you flurry rush with them, and will melt any target, it's great).

    And that's all using the easiest to put together most basic Silverhorn + Stick weapon. It gets much easier when you start getting access to stuff like White/Silver Lynel horns, the Master Sword...There's so many ways to stack up damage I actually find the Bone/Water shennagins to be very pointless overkill. YMMV, though!

    I think part of the disparity in experienced difficulty is from how much task-switching you do. The game is generally set up to encourage you to switch between zones and activities relatively frequently, so that you maintain a balanced inventory. If that's already your natural playstyle it works out great, but if you're like me and tend to spend a whole play session doing one type of thing then you're going to run out of the stuff you need to do that thing and it tends to feel tougher.

    The clearest illustration of this for me was how wildly my stocks of arrows and bombs fluctuated throughout the game. I repeatedly went from none to a couple of hundred to none without any real change in my skill level or overall approach.

    Butler on
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Butler wrote: »
    Blake T wrote: »
    Some creatures need too many whacks to defeat. Silver bobkins and lizalfols just need to be whacked so much it often does feels you are burning resources at times. I’d prefer them to do more damage to me to then more dangerous rather than be damage sponges.

    Then the other option is to use ultra rare stuff, or bone/water warrior combos to do large amounts of damage.

    I strongly disagree, i find silver enemies pushovers. You have so many ways to instant kill them - just offhand, Puffshroom + Eightfold blade with something strong on it lets you one-shot even up to Silver Boss bobos. Biffing enemies into the drink is a one shot kill on everything that's not a lizfalos, and can easily be done with a two-handed stick and a mushroom for maximum boink. Freezing enemies is super easy to do, with a ton of convenient ways to do this (My personal favorite being the Frost Gleeok horn on a shield), that's a big damage multiplier right there.

    The bit about "using silver bobo horns as ammo" isn't me joking by the way - by the time I stopped playing i had 300+ of the fucking things, and i really was using them as arrow heads. They're 9 damage less than the much more annoying to get Gibdo bones. This is signifcant when you're using them from a multishot bow (you're missing an extra 45 damage assuming every arrow lands, before attack up multipliers), but generally not meaningufl against every other enemy.

    Generally any silver horn + Gnarled stick/Royal weapon = base 40+ damage weapon, Attack up 3 gives you closer to 60 attack, and Silvers have 720 hp. So you need 12 hits at most to clear them out, and usually a lot less because you can easily start working in things like water into lighting, flashbangs to steal their weapons, backstabs, flurry rushes (Royal weapons do digusting amounts hwen you flurry rush with them, and will melt any target, it's great).

    And that's all using the easiest to put together most basic Silverhorn + Stick weapon. It gets much easier when you start getting access to stuff like White/Silver Lynel horns, the Master Sword...There's so many ways to stack up damage I actually find the Bone/Water shennagins to be very pointless overkill. YMMV, though!

    I think part of the disparity in experienced difficulty is from how much task-switching you do. The game is generally set up to encourage you to switch between zones and activities relatively frequently, so that you maintain a balanced inventory. If that's already your natural playstyle it works out great, but if you're like me and tend to spend a whole play session doing one type of thing then you're going to run out of the stuff you need to do that thing and it tends to feel tougher.

    The clearest illustration of this for me was how wildly my stocks of arrows and bombs fluctuated throughout the game. I repeatedly went from none to a couple of hundred to none without any real change in my skill level or overall approach.

    That may well be part of it - I tended to be very freeform explorer, and later on towards the end of my playthrough it was mostly Korok hunting interspersed with occasionally taking my really good would be a pain to farm weapons back to Death Mountain to refresh them.

    I feel like if you actively engage in fighting, the way the game's resources are tuned, you defitnely make a profit at all times. Especially late game, it's just really hard (or at least, for me and my playstyle), it felt really hard to do something like tackle a bunch of silver bobos and a silver boss and come out with less than I went in.

    But also I had a huge supply of various things, so i could do anything from throwing down one of my little fighting drones to wipe out the group for me, to freezing the entire group with a dragon shard and then murdering things with the frozen damage mutliplier, to the puffshroom -> backstabs, to... you get the picture. Point is I always had something in abundance to trade, and then i'd come out with a bunch of fresh weapons and horns to slap on them, and that fed back into the loop.

    I will say i basically consider Attack up+3 to be mandatory though - early in the game it's nice but whatever, but late game that 1.5x Multiplier is such a big deal. Just on the master sword alone, you're going from base 30 damage to 45 damage - Which if we assume 720 hp is the accurate amount for Silver bobos, takes you from needing 24 hits to down one to 16. This is a pretty significant chunk of durability you're saving! If you slap a silver Lynel blade onto your Master Sword, it goes from doing 85 damage a hit to a monster 127.5 damage per hit. Even assuming the game rounds down (I have no idea), that's a huge increase - and it's not like the armor sets that give you attack up 3 are bad at all.

    And this gets wackier when you start adding frozen multipliers to things, or sneak attacks (An eightfold longblade with a silver lynel horn and attack up can kill a Silver Boss Bobo in a single blow - and they have 1.5k hp).

    So if you're not running attack up 3, you're pretty inherently in for a more difficult time, and you will spend dramatically more resources than someone who does run attack up 3 at all times.

    This is annoying and dumb as game design decisions go on their part because it's no longer an interesting choice, but... that's the game, so work with what you've got.

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    I'm pretty sure as long as you don't douse an igneous talus before standing astride it with a fire weapon, it's all good.
    Anyway, hoping these death mountain story beats pick up in difficulty.

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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    TZP a gentle reminder that your particular definition of "easy" and system interactions that are "obvious"/"mandatory" are not necessarily universal, particularly for folks who play stuff more casually and/or in more spread out sessions.

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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    I have no idea how to do any advanced attack techniques.

    I have too little battery to do any flying.

    I have no idea what most of the materials do.

    On the depths: There's just very little reason to every go down there. Few rewards and fewer quests.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    Sneakstrike is you crouch with left thumbstick and then walk slowly up behind your target while watching the sound meter in the bottom corner.
    And then press attack when the prompt appears.
    Or glide behind someone into melee range.
    Or puffshroom or sneak potion or sneak costume I guess.
    Or whistle, and try to get them after they investigate the nothing.

    Flurry rush is when you Dodge perfectly to enter QuickTime mode.
    There is a shrine in Hyrule Castle town to teach you how to do this.
    Or you can shield parry (ZL + parry button) I think

    You can also aim arrows in slow-mo from the air, whilst consuming stamina.

    Also 2H charge attack is really good for ripping through anything that's vulnerable and standing still, especially if it's a rock.

    discrider on
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    TZP a gentle reminder that your particular definition of "easy" and system interactions that are "obvious"/"mandatory" are not necessarily universal, particularly for folks who play stuff more casually and/or in more spread out sessions.

    That's a very fair point. I have a very bad habit of being really hard on myself, and one of the ways that manifests is... assuming that what I can do/what comes naturally for me is simple/baseline for everyone. This is not actually a very healthy approach to life, whoops.

    Still, I hope at least some of my posts have useful stuff on how you can get some of that more basic system mastery and apply it - things like Attack up 3 are pretty accessible in the game. Armor's the easiest (if you can stomach the upgrade costs, and given it's either dragon farming or lynels, very valid if you do not want to stomach that), but if I remember correctly 3 Mighty Porgies (All over the place in the ocean, throw a shock fruit in and reap the harvest) + any attack up food gives you a mighty dish that's attack up 3. Fun fact: Golden Apples can be added to this to force a crit effect, which can include useful effects like massively increasing the time the meal lasts!

    There's also the non-upgradeable Dark Knight armor, but given you can't upgrade it and it's pretty spread out this time around (including in some pretty tricky caves), I question how worthwhile it is to grab. 24 armor is nice early game, but will fall off hard when you're dealing with Black/White/Silver class enemies.

    For the depths: the main reason to go down there is to get Bomb Flowers, Puffshrooms and Muddlebuds, as well as lots and lots of Zoanite. Which is also where you can trade in your zoanite to get battery upgrades, or buy Large Zoanite charges which when popped, give you unlimited battery for a set amount of time. I'm actually unclear/unsure if they burn out faster if you're using more power, i don't think they do? Still, they're a nice stop gap until you get a decent amount of battery built up.

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    SirToastySirToasty Registered User regular
    I have no idea how to do any advanced attack techniques.

    I have too little battery to do any flying.

    I have no idea what most of the materials do.

    On the depths: There's just very little reason to every go down there. Few rewards and fewer quests.

    Well I can tell you that the last thing here will help the second thing. Go activate a few lightroots and clear a couple monster camps or mini mines along the way and use the zoanite you picked up to exchange up to a battery cell or two.

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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    edited October 2023
    SirToasty wrote: »
    I have no idea how to do any advanced attack techniques.

    I have too little battery to do any flying.

    I have no idea what most of the materials do.

    On the depths: There's just very little reason to every go down there. Few rewards and fewer quests.

    Well I can tell you that the last thing here will help the second thing. Go activate a few lightroots and clear a couple monster camps or mini mines along the way and use the zoanite you picked up to exchange up to a battery cell or two.

    I'm almost at the end of the game. You need so much zonaite to get just a sliver of battery upgrade that I'd rather walk. It was a real "yeah, I'm not doing that" moment when I got my first 100 charges and only got 1/3 battery improvement, going from "no point in bothering with devices" to "no point in bothering with devices".

    I can fly now (I think my battery is about half upgraded) because I also have the full zonaite armor. But the "can fly" thing is very much a late-game ability for me. And I still don't see the point in going underground. (I also find the flying controls really unintuitive.)

    [Expletive deleted] on
    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    Sneakstrike is you crouch with left thumbstick and then walk slowly up behind your target while watching the sound meter in the bottom corner.
    And then press attack when the prompt appears.
    Or glide behind someone into melee range.
    Or puffshroom or sneak potion or sneak costume I guess.
    Or whistle, and try to get them after they investigate the nothing.

    Flurry rush is when you Dodge perfectly to enter QuickTime mode.
    There is a shrine in Hyrule Castle town to teach you how to do this.
    Or you can shield parry (ZL + parry button) I think

    You can also aim arrows in slow-mo from the air, whilst consuming stamina.

    Also 2H charge attack is really good for ripping through anything that's vulnerable and standing still, especially if it's a rock.

    I don't know how to dodge, either. I just move out of the way. I did do the shrine a long time ago, but it seems easier just to hit things with my sword.

    Can never get the timing right on shield parry.

    The slow-mo arrow thing I know, but then I need to be airborne.

    Very rarely get the opportunity to sneak attack; at least one monster is usually looking in my direction.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    SirToasty wrote: »
    I have no idea how to do any advanced attack techniques.

    I have too little battery to do any flying.

    I have no idea what most of the materials do.

    On the depths: There's just very little reason to every go down there. Few rewards and fewer quests.

    Well I can tell you that the last thing here will help the second thing. Go activate a few lightroots and clear a couple monster camps or mini mines along the way and use the zoanite you picked up to exchange up to a battery cell or two.

    I'm almost at the end of the game. You need so much zonaite to get just a sliver of battery upgrade that I'd rather walk. It was a real "yeah, I'm not doing that" moment when I got my first 100 charges and only got 1/3 battery improvement, going from "no point in bothering with devices" to "no point in bothering with devices".

    I can fly now (I think my battery is about half upgraded) because I also have the full zonaite armor. But the "can fly" thing is very much a late-game ability for me. And I still don't see the point in going underground. (I also find the flying controls really unintuitive.)

    You dont technically need any zoanite you need 100 charges. large enemies in the depths drop them( large ones worth 20 along with zoanite in most cases). Its pretty easy to find 5 or so wipe em out and top your battery up quickly

    Edit- got the terms mixed uo

    King Riptor on
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    SirToastySirToasty Registered User regular
    SirToasty wrote: »
    I have no idea how to do any advanced attack techniques.

    I have too little battery to do any flying.

    I have no idea what most of the materials do.

    On the depths: There's just very little reason to every go down there. Few rewards and fewer quests.

    Well I can tell you that the last thing here will help the second thing. Go activate a few lightroots and clear a couple monster camps or mini mines along the way and use the zoanite you picked up to exchange up to a battery cell or two.

    I'm almost at the end of the game. You need so much zonaite to get just a sliver of battery upgrade that I'd rather walk. It was a real "yeah, I'm not doing that" moment when I got my first 100 charges and only got 1/3 battery improvement, going from "no point in bothering with devices" to "no point in bothering with devices".

    I can fly now (I think my battery is about half upgraded) because I also have the full zonaite armor. But the "can fly" thing is very much a late-game ability for me. And I still don't see the point in going underground. (I also find the flying controls really unintuitive.)

    I think you're really overestimating how rare zoanite is, probably because you have convinced yourself that there's nothing of worth in the depths. But like I said, the primary resource that you collect down there is zoanite and it's everywhere. It seems like you're actively avoiding a significant part of the gameplay loop and it's making the rest of it clunky.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    For upgrading the battery: it's much much better to trade your large zoanite in, instead of your regular zoanite.

    To memory, 15 large zoanite = a full battery upgrade (3 pips)

    Your can easily get a ton of upgrades by just exploring the depths right below Hyrule field. There's a wealth of mining outposts, each of which is a bunch of zoanite. There's also a much of the simpler, that is, non lynel mini bosses. Each of them is worth 1/5 of a battery upgrade when you down them.

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    Blake TBlake T Do you have enemies then? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered User regular
    Like to be fair, the first couple of times you get to the depths you don’t generate a significant amount of zonite. So it would feel that going down there and mining isn’t very effective. Plus when I think about it, defeating most of the big enemies down there it isn’t often very noticeable that you get a large crystallised charge.

    Saying that, I only occasionally would bust out the hover bike or build a machine to help my battles. Most of the time I’d just run around and do my own thing.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    There are boss refights in the depths that give huge charges too (worth 100 charges, i.e. a new segment) the first time you beat them. Some of them are really, really easy.

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    Quantum TigerQuantum Tiger Registered User regular
    Zoanite, like a lot of resources, is one of those things you'll set the radar up to detect and find out you're surrounded by the stuff

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    RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    Yeah boss refights in The Depths are probably the best way to get zonaite. Some of the bosses are much easier than others though.

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    MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    I found all the boss platforms in the Depths before I ever fought any of them in the temples, so there was nothing on them

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    discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Oh
    Is that what those things are.

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    King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Renzo wrote: »
    Yeah boss refights in The Depths are probably the best way to get zonaite. Some of the bosses are much easier than others though.

    Yeah like the sky and water bosses are cake

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    AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    Renzo wrote: »
    Yeah boss refights in The Depths are probably the best way to get zonaite. Some of the bosses are much easier than others though.

    Yeah like the sky and water bosses are cake

    I found the water boss quite tricky, but the fire boss was easy (and gave a great drop to fuse to weapons).

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    Blake TBlake T Do you have enemies then? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered User regular
    Yeah I think the water boss was my favourite, just because he is so silly. But he moves around so much it can just get a bit frustrating to do.

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    SirToastySirToasty Registered User regular
    Renzo wrote: »
    Yeah boss refights in The Depths are probably the best way to get zonaite. Some of the bosses are much easier than others though.

    Yeah like the sky and water bosses are cake

    See I find the water boss annoying. It's not difficult but it takes more time than fire or sky.

    Can we all agree that lightning is the worst?

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Lightning dies really fast once you break the armour, and that just requires a quick elemental arrow or two

    I'd say water is the "worst" and that's just annoyance factor. Chu jelly, just the pain stuff, acts as a water bomb which is useful.

    Honestly all of them are quite simple to gun down.

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    Blake TBlake T Do you have enemies then? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    You’re doing it again.

    Blake T on
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    SirToastySirToasty Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    I now have a Scimitar of the Seven fused with a Silver Lynel Saber Horn for a total power of 138 and a pristine Royal Guard Claymore fused with the same on its last hit for a total power of 208. That one is only used very carefully while mounted on a stunned Lynel since it won't take damage in that situation. I managed 6 hits on a Silver Lynel with +3 attack armor and meal active. Nearly killed it with that alone. Hopped off and smacked it with something of 50 power or so a few times and it was gone. Next step is upgrading either the Fierce Deity set or the Barbarian set so I don't have to worry about taking hits as much.

    SirToasty on
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    Blake TBlake T Do you have enemies then? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered User regular
    SirToasty wrote: »
    I now have a Scimitar of the Seven fused with a Silver Lynel Saber Horn for a total power of 138 and a pristine Royal Guard Claymore fused with the same on its last hit for a total power of 208. That one is only used very carefully while mounted on a stunned Lynel since it won't take damage in that situation. I managed 6 hits on a Silver Lynel with +3 attack armor and meal active. Nearly killed it with that alone. Hopped off and smacked it with something of 50 power or so a few times and it was gone. Next step is upgrading either the Fierce Deity set or the Barbarian set so I don't have to worry about taking hits as much.

    If you want to get to the nth level damage against lynels the best combo I’ve found is a zora sword with a modulga jaw. You then put on the bone armour, which triples your damage, throw some splash fruit at yourself (or how ever you want) to double your damage, then eat an attack up meal to get another 1.5 damage. I think if you the get a pristine +10 attack long sword you can do something like 600+ damage per hit.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Blake T wrote: »
    You’re doing it again.

    I was genuinely trying to avoid that!

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    SirToasty wrote: »
    I managed 6 hits on a Silver Lynel with +3 attack armor and meal active.

    Just in case you're not aware, Attack Up 3 caps at 3. You can only have 3 pips total, from any source.

    Since you can only have one meal effect as well, it's basically a pick your poison approach - high def armour and eat for attack up 3, or attack up 3 armour and eat for whatever.

    You can game this a bit in areas that are too cold/to hot - sapphires, frost enemy parts on a shield give you the equivalent of 1 hot weather protection. Vice Versa for fire enemy parts. Sapphires/Rubys let out a big element explosion when smacked, elemental enemy parts make your shield swipe do the element.

    There's no equivalent for storms/magma heat, but there is a way to get a hat that makes you immune to lightning strikes.

    Which is fun, because Lighting is a one hit kill on any silver class enemy (I've never found a storm that intersects a Silver lynels territory to test it out with though. Where's my zonai lightning generator?)

    Also on the shield swipe: if you're using a lynel shield or have something that does damage attached, it'll do damage. Combine a Savage lynel Shield with a Gleeok horn, and you have ready access to an elemental swipe that does 50+ damage. This is surprisingly handy!

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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Blake T wrote: »
    Like to be fair, the first couple of times you get to the depths you don’t generate a significant amount of zonite. So it would feel that going down there and mining isn’t very effective. Plus when I think about it, defeating most of the big enemies down there it isn’t often very noticeable that you get a large crystallised charge.

    Saying that, I only occasionally would bust out the hover bike or build a machine to help my battles. Most of the time I’d just run around and do my own thing.

    I try to avoid the large enemies, and enemies in general. So I didn't know you get charges from the big ones in the depths.

    I know large zonaite is more effective than small zonaite, but I feel the drop rate is very low for the large ones from the deposits.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    SirToasty wrote: »
    SirToasty wrote: »
    I have no idea how to do any advanced attack techniques.

    I have too little battery to do any flying.

    I have no idea what most of the materials do.

    On the depths: There's just very little reason to every go down there. Few rewards and fewer quests.

    Well I can tell you that the last thing here will help the second thing. Go activate a few lightroots and clear a couple monster camps or mini mines along the way and use the zoanite you picked up to exchange up to a battery cell or two.

    I'm almost at the end of the game. You need so much zonaite to get just a sliver of battery upgrade that I'd rather walk. It was a real "yeah, I'm not doing that" moment when I got my first 100 charges and only got 1/3 battery improvement, going from "no point in bothering with devices" to "no point in bothering with devices".

    I can fly now (I think my battery is about half upgraded) because I also have the full zonaite armor. But the "can fly" thing is very much a late-game ability for me. And I still don't see the point in going underground. (I also find the flying controls really unintuitive.)

    I think you're really overestimating how rare zoanite is, probably because you have convinced yourself that there's nothing of worth in the depths. But like I said, the primary resource that you collect down there is zoanite and it's everywhere. It seems like you're actively avoiding a significant part of the gameplay loop and it's making the rest of it clunky.

    Zonaite is everywhere, but in too small quantities. You need 2,100 crystallized charges to fully upgrade the battery. That's 6,300 small zonaite or 315 large zonaite, but the drop rate on the latter is quite low.

    It feels very Sisyphean.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    I probably come across as very down on the game.

    I think it's a very fun game, but there are some aspects that feel annoying (weapon breakage, wet surfaces), pointless (depths), or grindy (upgrading battery and clothing).

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod
    Zoanite definitely feels to me like something you're not supposed to just Go Max Out, more just collect it incidentally as you explore the depths looking for light roots and treasure maps and the other stuff down there.

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    You get so much Zonaite if you just kill like two Froxes and then blow up the minerals they're guarding each blood moon, and there's two right at the bottom of Depths entrances.

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    DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    TZP a gentle reminder that your particular definition of "easy" and system interactions that are "obvious"/"mandatory" are not necessarily universal, particularly for folks who play stuff more casually and/or in more spread out sessions.

    Also that most people don't really look for optimization, they just play.

    Like, I didn't use food buffs because, to be quite honest, it's a pain in the behind. I found myself constantly low on bludgeoning weapons because far as I can tell Moblins are an endangered goddamn species and you need bludgeons for so much stuff and I didn't exactly write down places where you can find bludgeons, or go around the depths noting down spawns for good base weapons. I never really did the whole puffshroom stuff. That kinda thing.

    On Zonaite, I found that mining and killing whatever you run into does give decent amounts of Larges - sending Yunobo to blow things up as I walked through the depths trying to get to lightroots often got me a pip or two or battery by the time I headed back the surface.

    Steam ID: Right here.
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Drascin wrote: »
    TZP a gentle reminder that your particular definition of "easy" and system interactions that are "obvious"/"mandatory" are not necessarily universal, particularly for folks who play stuff more casually and/or in more spread out sessions.

    Also that most people don't really look for optimization, they just play.

    Like, I didn't use food buffs because, to be quite honest, it's a pain in the behind. I found myself constantly low on bludgeoning weapons because far as I can tell Moblins are an endangered goddamn species and you need bludgeons for so much stuff and I didn't exactly write down places where you can find bludgeons, or go around the depths noting down spawns for good base weapons. I never really did the whole puffshroom stuff. That kinda thing.

    On Zonaite, I found that mining and killing whatever you run into does give decent amounts of Larges - sending Yunobo to blow things up as I walked through the depths trying to get to lightroots often got me a pip or two or battery by the time I headed back the surface.

    For me, system mastery and expression of that is a huge part of why I play games. Also a huge part of why I'll get frustrated at certain games, who's systems don't hold up.

    Also yeah, while you can dedicatedly farm Zoanite, it's much better to just pick a path and explore. There's mining camps everywhere, and every Frox guards a small pile of zoanite

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    I just realized that part of why deep system talk about this game hits me funny is an entirely me thing, and it's that the main person I talk to about this game in real life is one of my best friend's 8 year old kid.

    He's pure enthusiasm and chaos and loves showing off armor, and dumb/cool shit he's cobbled together, and that childlike glee in thinking Every New Thing is the Coolest Thing Ever. I've seen the game through his eyes a lot, it's become part of the charm of it for me.

    And so when that game gets busted down to like data-on-a-spreadsheet maximization, it just feels weird. The game clearly supports that mode of interaction, but it runs so counter to what I personally have come to think of as the game's energy.

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    I just realized that part of why deep system talk about this game hits me funny is an entirely me thing, and it's that the main person I talk to about this game in real life is one of my best friend's 8 year old kid.

    He's pure enthusiasm and chaos and loves showing off armor, and dumb/cool shit he's cobbled together, and that childlike glee in thinking Every New Thing is the Coolest Thing Ever. I've seen the game through his eyes a lot, it's become part of the charm of it for me.

    And so when that game gets busted down to like data-on-a-spreadsheet maximization, it just feels weird. The game clearly supports that mode of interaction, but it runs so counter to what I personally have come to think of as the game's energy.

    It's actually really funny to me to have my approach to things refered to as dat a on a spreadsheet. Like not in a bad or mocking way, just genuinely amusing.

    I'm terrible at math. Horrible! I'm much more of a vibes type person, and a lot of my in-game optimizations are based around what works for me and my gameplay styles. It would not be inaccurate to call my optimization very vibes based

    Just as an example, I find the bone armor/bone fusion tricks like... pointless? too much? Fiddly? It's statistically the strongest thing you can be doing and it's really good... if you care to jump through the hoops. Which I don't, food's a pain in the arse and it's super limiting on fusion choice. And there's nothing in the game that demands that sort of optimization, so why bother? I can do something that's like 80% as effective, has way more freedom, and still let me roll all over the foes.

    Perhaps a better way of framing it is my ideal game is one where system mastery and optimization results in that kind of New Thing is the Coolest Thing ever chaos. Part of why I like Tears so much is that I don't feel locked into Do The Optimal Thing - in fact it generally supports the Do the stupid chaos bullshit as being optimal. I've had so much fun messing around with stuff like "oh hey, two-handed club + mushroom is really effective" or spending time iterating on a Zonai drone that'll effectively wipe out camps solo (I'm very sad i never could get a design that actually used a sword to be effective). It's gameplay directly supports the Wild chaos approach. Or running around in storms dragging lightning bolts onto foes... etcera.

    The game gives you a fantastic toolkit to play with, and combat that supports using that tool kit in a ton of interesting ways to bypass or eliminate challenge in ways that at least make me feel clever and have fun, rather than it feel route and boredom sets in.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    SirToastySirToasty Registered User regular
    I just realized that part of why deep system talk about this game hits me funny is an entirely me thing, and it's that the main person I talk to about this game in real life is one of my best friend's 8 year old kid.

    He's pure enthusiasm and chaos and loves showing off armor, and dumb/cool shit he's cobbled together, and that childlike glee in thinking Every New Thing is the Coolest Thing Ever. I've seen the game through his eyes a lot, it's become part of the charm of it for me.

    And so when that game gets busted down to like data-on-a-spreadsheet maximization, it just feels weird. The game clearly supports that mode of interaction, but it runs so counter to what I personally have come to think of as the game's energy.
    Perhaps a better way of framing it is my ideal game is one where system mastery and optimization results in that kind of New Thing is the Coolest Thing ever chaos.

    This is where I'm at right now. I've had a blast just kinda running around doing whatever strikes my fancy for 150 hours or something. Now the thing I find interesting is making the number on my weapons really really big. Being able to just put a silver Lynel in a blender is the New Cool Thing. Pristine weapons are super hot.

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