Sucky thing about learning aran is the 40minutes of trash/8 minute corpsewalk which really, really, really gets annoying. Really annoying. By far my most hated bit of karazhan.
Wish I could get our officers to focus, we downed Lurker, now they are all over the place, our raid calender has VR, Hydros and Tidewalker.....we need to focus fire on Hydross, we had some good attempts but then they ran off to try Tidewalker, can't learn a fight like that
Thanks to WWS, we've been putting pressure on a Shadow Priest to DPS harder. Considering he has about 100 more spell damage and a bit more crit than our other Shadow Priest, it's alarming by how much his counterpart does significantly more dps than he. He also rarely Vamp Touches for his group despite the fact that we bring him mainly for that.
Last raid was better, I think. Although he is annoyed. Also, most of the healing I do isn't counted (healing from Earth Shield etc) and yet I stay #1 for the most part despite the 2 other resto shaman, 2 priests and tree druid. Shocking...
Whoa. I'd never heard of this utility before, but after looking over it a bit, I think I'mma bring it to Kara tomorrow. We had some unexplainable repeat-wiping going on with Moroes earlier tonight, and to be able to look over things and see exactly what's going on and find out exactly what needs to be fixed...might be useful.
Unfortunately, stopping your heals is no longer a viable healing method, because it's quite common for bosses to have "oh lol, you die now" mechanics that usually mean tank death within 2s. Teron is a pretty good one for that, where with a little bad luck your MT can get hit by around 16k damage with a parry streak combined with anywhere from 1.2k to 6k shadow damage from randomly targetted shadow bolts. I'm glad I don't have to heal these encounters and healers around the world have my sympathy, except my own, which I expect to keep up with this kind of stuff if they want raid spots /scowl : b
That's why tree druids are so popular all the sudden. Now that lifebloom works well, all the min/maxers want two trees on the raid to spam hots the entire fight.
Even with 2 piece T5 (priest) I can't afford to let heals go through on a fully healed target for very long, it's actually more efficient (in terms of effective healing and time spent outside FSR) to wait for the tank to take a hit, and mash a flash heal.
Unfortunately, stopping your heals is no longer a viable healing method, because it's quite common for bosses to have "oh lol, you die now" mechanics that usually mean tank death within 2s.
Though it doesn't seem to be 100% avoidable, I tend to wonder how many melee have found their way to the front of the mob to force parries. Shit like this happens on Gruul a lot since there's so much movement and people get pissed. Then again, the boss could just parry your tank, in which case you're hosed.
What gets me is when healing gets blamed. You can clearly see in logs that the tank takes something like 3 hits in 3 seconds, one of those being crushing (since shield block is down) for a total of around 17k.
For those of you who do Gruul, what is the DPS of your shadow priests on a kill, how many growths do you kill him in, and how progressed are you as a guild?
I have a feeling our shadow priests are very much underperforming (580-600 DPS), but like always, no one speaks up so they continue to suck with no advice or suggestions. For comparison, we're just beginning SSC/TK but pretty farmed up on Karazhan and Gruul loot.
Though it doesn't seem to be 100% avoidable, I tend to wonder how many melee have found their way to the front of the mob to force parries. Shit like this happens on Gruul a lot since there's so much movement and people get pissed. Then again, the boss could just parry your tank, in which case you're hosed.
What gets me is when healing gets blamed. You can clearly see in logs that the tank takes something like 3 hits in 3 seconds, one of those being crushing (since shield block is down) for a total of around 17k.
*grumble*
The only problem we have on non-tank based parries is hunter pets that charge, occasionally they path straight through the boss and end up in front of him. That is a bad bad situation and happens pretty often. But a quick call and the pet goes back to the hunter then back to the boss at a more leisurely pace : b
If no heals land inside of 3 seconds, then I'm asking healers why. I can understand if it wasn't healable regardless, thats why I have the resources to check these things, but 3s without a heal even without that kind of burst is almost tantamount to a death sentence most times.
For those of you who do Gruul, what is the DPS of your shadow priests on a kill, how many growths do you kill him in, and how progressed are you as a guild?
I have a feeling our shadow priests are very much underperforming (580-600 DPS), but like always, no one speaks up so they continue to suck with no advice or suggestions. For comparison, we're just beginning SSC/TK but pretty farmed up on Karazhan and Gruul loot.
Thanks
On average on Gruul we had around 800ish DPS from shadow priests when we still did him regularly, unfortunately there is a lot of AE damage going on in the form of cave ins and shatters, so your spriests are often pulling more threat from having VE end up healing everyone in their group sometimes.
The guild I'm in is currently working on BT/Archimonde and the last time we killed Gruul I believe we did it in around 12 growths, unfortunately our WWS reports from those are long gone and I can't confirm it. You should try and get WWS reports going, because they are very much easier to analyse then straight up numbers.
We're having a few shots at tidewalker, but we're having a hell of a lot of trouble dealing with the damage flying around in the fight (mostly, i guess, due to stubborn mages and healers sitting below 6k hp unbuffed, sigh, but that's a different story).
Been browsing for strats, there are comments all round about having a murloc team stand outside watery grave/earthquake range. This seems very interesting. Can anyone comment however, how positioning then is? The range appears to be ~45-50yards on both abilities, do you drag morogrim away, and if so, further down the tunnel or back towards the lurker/hydross area?
Karathress
|----------- -----------|
| T |
| Moro |
| Melee |
| Range |
| OTs |
| |
| Grave Healers |
| |
| o o |
|----------- -----------|
Entrance
Really ugly, but if you've been in the room, you should get the general gist of the layout.
Basically, we have 2 rogues 'tank' him while the rest of hte raid moves to the Karathress side of the room. The pull is made to the MT (T) standing basically in the doorway. Raid moves behind Morogrim and begins dps. We have 2 Grave healers, and 2 Paladins as OTs. They are all in range of the grave effect, which is why we double up. It's unlikely that both grave healers get the grave and both paladin OTs get it. Paladins can bubble out of it.
Then you just basically wing it from there. having the OTs spam healing the raid during the earthquake for aggro and they take it from there. As said, graves are not usually an issue because they don't always coincide with an earthquake and even if they do, the paladins can bubble out of it.
Grave Healers might have a little bit of trouble with this, but it's very rare that both healers get graved at the same time.
Edit: Wow, that looks worse then I thought. To clarify, every one is in range of watery grave everytime. The reason we do it this way is that murlocs that for any reason decide to aggro on Grave healers, will end up killing them instantly, which is no good at all.
Edit2: Forget that, video is no longer hosted it seems.
Unfortunately, stopping your heals is no longer a viable healing method, because it's quite common for bosses to have "oh lol, you die now" mechanics that usually mean tank death within 2s.
Yep. We didn't take Prince today.
Tank at 50% health.
Tank at full health.
Tank dead.
This within 1.5 seconds.
Well, in cases like these, how are you supposed to function without running OOM? (aside from making Phase 2 as short as possible, that is)
Unfortunately, stopping your heals is no longer a viable healing method, because it's quite common for bosses to have "oh lol, you die now" mechanics that usually mean tank death within 2s.
Yep. We didn't take Prince today.
Tank at 50% health.
Tank at full health.
Tank dead.
This within 1.5 seconds.
Well, in cases like these, how are you supposed to function without running OOM? (aside from making Phase 2 as short as possible, that is)
Keep doing attempts until the dice roll in your favor and the boss dies.
Eventually the gear will outclass the fight and winning won't be hard anymore.
Unfortunately, stopping your heals is no longer a viable healing method, because it's quite common for bosses to have "oh lol, you die now" mechanics that usually mean tank death within 2s.
Yep. We didn't take Prince today.
Tank at 50% health.
Tank at full health.
Tank dead.
This within 1.5 seconds.
Well, in cases like these, how are you supposed to function without running OOM? (aside from making Phase 2 as short as possible, that is)
This is why chainchugging and shadowpriests are staples of healing. In karazhan, it's not too much of a problem. It doesn't take very much to start to outgear the instance. But SSC/TK/Hyjal/BT, without these, you start have problems.
I know our healers tend to go through the region of 30-40 mana pots a night on progression material (depending on boss obviously) and even upto 20 on normal material. It's part of the healing philosophy. "Pot early and pot often"
I don't pot as often as I should, but that's mostly because all the paladin healers in my guild are spastic when it comes to spamming heals. There's just no way for me to get a word in edgewise most of the time, so I sit there regaining mana.
There are very, very few fights we're doing that require me to pot more than once. I've used two tonight and we cleared three bosses in TK.
Karathress
|----------- -----------|
| T |
| Moro |
| Melee |
| Range |
| OTs |
| |
| Grave Healers |
| |
| o o |
|----------- -----------|
Entrance
Really ugly, but if you've been in the room, you should get the general gist of the layout.
Basically, we have 2 rogues 'tank' him while the rest of hte raid moves to the Karathress side of the room. The pull is made to the MT (T) standing basically in the doorway. Raid moves behind Morogrim and begins dps. We have 2 Grave healers, and 2 Paladins as OTs. They are all in range of the grave effect, which is why we double up. It's unlikely that both grave healers get the grave and both paladin OTs get it. Paladins can bubble out of it.
Then you just basically wing it from there. having the OTs spam healing the raid during the earthquake for aggro and they take it from there. As said, graves are not usually an issue because they don't always coincide with an earthquake and even if they do, the paladins can bubble out of it.
Grave Healers might have a little bit of trouble with this, but it's very rare that both healers get graved at the same time.
Edit: Wow, that looks worse then I thought. To clarify, every one is in range of watery grave everytime. The reason we do it this way is that murlocs that for any reason decide to aggro on Grave healers, will end up killing them instantly, which is no good at all.
Edit2: Forget that, video is no longer hosted it seems.
Um, why not move the Paladin OT's out of grave range and just have two warlocks be their target?
You need 2 locks for Maulgar, 4 Locks for Mag, 2 Locks for Void Reaver trash (trying to get to him with only one lock wasn't a good idea). We've only just set foot into The Eye today (trying to get to the Loot Pinata but the trash proved too difficult without Locks to keep those sawblading demons under control) so my question is if SSC has any Lock chokepoints like that as well?
You need 2 locks for Maulgar, 4 Locks for Mag, 2 Locks for Void Reaver trash (trying to get to him with only one lock wasn't a good idea). We've only just set foot into The Eye today (trying to get to the Loot Pinata but the trash proved too difficult without Locks to keep those sawblading demons under control) so my question is if SSC has any Lock chokepoints like that as well?
We use a warlock to tank demon form Leotheras, but that can be done with a more conventional tank in FR gear.
Well, in cases like these, how are you supposed to function without running OOM? (aside from making Phase 2 as short as possible, that is)
In phase two Prince gains some insane possible burst damage that you have no way of healing through. I think the MT took about 14k damage in one second there.
Sounds like a tank issue. Make sure he has the needed defense and all that good stuff.
Uh... no. He's uncrittable (510 defense) and has, AFAIK, the best tank gear you can get outside of Karazhan, and most of the tank gear that drops up to and including Curator.
A Thrash + parry and his Sunder Armor on the MT can add up to 20k damage in a second. It's all about hoping that doesn't happen.
You need 2 locks for Maulgar, 4 Locks for Mag, 2 Locks for Void Reaver trash (trying to get to him with only one lock wasn't a good idea). We've only just set foot into The Eye today (trying to get to the Loot Pinata but the trash proved too difficult without Locks to keep those sawblading demons under control) so my question is if SSC has any Lock chokepoints like that as well?
We did Maulgar last night with only one lock, we had a couple of rough starts, but nothing that could be attributed to the lack of a warlock.
so my question is if SSC has any Lock chokepoints like that as well?
Morogrim is easier with lock ae, and locks are superior kiters for striders on the Vashj fight. I guess a hunter or mage could do it as well but the chore seems ideal for a warlock's skill set.
xzzy on
0
silence1186Character shields down!As a wingmanRegistered Userregular
edited August 2007
So uh, fuck that Hydross guy. We raid SSC/TK 2 nights a week, and have Lurker and VR down, the two easiest bosses by far. We have not, however, killed a new boss in 3 weeks, and afer wiping on Hydross for 3 hours with NO ONE learning from their mistakes, people are all depressed and quitting the game and apping to guilds with most of BT on farm so they don't have to do any work. FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK.
So uh, fuck that Hydross guy. We raid SSC/TK 2 nights a week, and have Lurker and VR down, the two easiest bosses by far. We have not, however, killed a new boss in 3 weeks, and afer wiping on Hydross for 3 hours with NO ONE learning from their mistakes, people are all depressed and quitting the game and apping to guilds with most of BT on farm so they don't have to do any work. FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK.
Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Except my fucking guild isn't out of Kara yet. :x
Here we are, having cleared everything but the two dragons and Illhoof, and we suddenly the main raiders no longer want to raid. So I have to go with the scrubs group, who proceeds to wipe on Moroes 5 times before calling it a night.
so my question is if SSC has any Lock chokepoints like that as well?
Morogrim is easier with lock ae, and locks are superior kiters for striders on the Vashj fight. I guess a hunter or mage could do it as well but the chore seems ideal for a warlock's skill set.
Leotheras is also reportedly a lot easier with lock FR tank then with a regular tank (because it's an enrage timed fight and if you normal tank it, melee can't DPS during that phase or get burninated).
Posts
Words will be had.
amen - but on the same topic as Echo, it allows me to yell at people without feeling guilty :P
Last raid was better, I think. Although he is annoyed. Also, most of the healing I do isn't counted (healing from Earth Shield etc) and yet I stay #1 for the most part despite the 2 other resto shaman, 2 priests and tree druid. Shocking...
Whoa. I'd never heard of this utility before, but after looking over it a bit, I think I'mma bring it to Kara tomorrow. We had some unexplainable repeat-wiping going on with Moroes earlier tonight, and to be able to look over things and see exactly what's going on and find out exactly what needs to be fixed...might be useful.
As an example, one of my guilds recent raids
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=unbui3rbuol2u
That was before TBC when FoL Spam was viable.
Even with 2 piece T5 (priest) I can't afford to let heals go through on a fully healed target for very long, it's actually more efficient (in terms of effective healing and time spent outside FSR) to wait for the tank to take a hit, and mash a flash heal.
Yep. We didn't take Prince today.
Tank at 50% health.
Tank at full health.
Tank dead.
This within 1.5 seconds.
What gets me is when healing gets blamed. You can clearly see in logs that the tank takes something like 3 hits in 3 seconds, one of those being crushing (since shield block is down) for a total of around 17k.
*grumble*
For those of you who do Gruul, what is the DPS of your shadow priests on a kill, how many growths do you kill him in, and how progressed are you as a guild?
I have a feeling our shadow priests are very much underperforming (580-600 DPS), but like always, no one speaks up so they continue to suck with no advice or suggestions. For comparison, we're just beginning SSC/TK but pretty farmed up on Karazhan and Gruul loot.
Thanks
The only problem we have on non-tank based parries is hunter pets that charge, occasionally they path straight through the boss and end up in front of him. That is a bad bad situation and happens pretty often. But a quick call and the pet goes back to the hunter then back to the boss at a more leisurely pace : b
If no heals land inside of 3 seconds, then I'm asking healers why. I can understand if it wasn't healable regardless, thats why I have the resources to check these things, but 3s without a heal even without that kind of burst is almost tantamount to a death sentence most times.
On average on Gruul we had around 800ish DPS from shadow priests when we still did him regularly, unfortunately there is a lot of AE damage going on in the form of cave ins and shatters, so your spriests are often pulling more threat from having VE end up healing everyone in their group sometimes.
The guild I'm in is currently working on BT/Archimonde and the last time we killed Gruul I believe we did it in around 12 growths, unfortunately our WWS reports from those are long gone and I can't confirm it. You should try and get WWS reports going, because they are very much easier to analyse then straight up numbers.
Been browsing for strats, there are comments all round about having a murloc team stand outside watery grave/earthquake range. This seems very interesting. Can anyone comment however, how positioning then is? The range appears to be ~45-50yards on both abilities, do you drag morogrim away, and if so, further down the tunnel or back towards the lurker/hydross area?
Karathress |----------- -----------| | T | | Moro | | Melee | | Range | | OTs | | | | Grave Healers | | | | o o | |----------- -----------| EntranceReally ugly, but if you've been in the room, you should get the general gist of the layout.
Basically, we have 2 rogues 'tank' him while the rest of hte raid moves to the Karathress side of the room. The pull is made to the MT (T) standing basically in the doorway. Raid moves behind Morogrim and begins dps. We have 2 Grave healers, and 2 Paladins as OTs. They are all in range of the grave effect, which is why we double up. It's unlikely that both grave healers get the grave and both paladin OTs get it. Paladins can bubble out of it.
Then you just basically wing it from there. having the OTs spam healing the raid during the earthquake for aggro and they take it from there. As said, graves are not usually an issue because they don't always coincide with an earthquake and even if they do, the paladins can bubble out of it.
Grave Healers might have a little bit of trouble with this, but it's very rare that both healers get graved at the same time.
Edit: Wow, that looks worse then I thought. To clarify, every one is in range of watery grave everytime. The reason we do it this way is that murlocs that for any reason decide to aggro on Grave healers, will end up killing them instantly, which is no good at all.
Edit2: Forget that, video is no longer hosted it seems.
Keep doing attempts until the dice roll in your favor and the boss dies.
Eventually the gear will outclass the fight and winning won't be hard anymore.
This is why chainchugging and shadowpriests are staples of healing. In karazhan, it's not too much of a problem. It doesn't take very much to start to outgear the instance. But SSC/TK/Hyjal/BT, without these, you start have problems.
I know our healers tend to go through the region of 30-40 mana pots a night on progression material (depending on boss obviously) and even upto 20 on normal material. It's part of the healing philosophy. "Pot early and pot often"
There are very, very few fights we're doing that require me to pot more than once. I've used two tonight and we cleared three bosses in TK.
Um, why not move the Paladin OT's out of grave range and just have two warlocks be their target?
Slowly? :P
6 Healers on average.
We use a warlock to tank demon form Leotheras, but that can be done with a more conventional tank in FR gear.
We avoided that because raid leaders were afraid our MT couldn't kill her inner demon. How does yours manage?
lol, did you actually manage to kill him? Or did a mage end up tanking Nightbane? :P
Quite easily, autoblocker + 100 rage and it goes down fairly quickly, just stachk block value for the fight since leo doesn't hit hard
In phase two Prince gains some insane possible burst damage that you have no way of healing through. I think the MT took about 14k damage in one second there.
Uh... no. He's uncrittable (510 defense) and has, AFAIK, the best tank gear you can get outside of Karazhan, and most of the tank gear that drops up to and including Curator.
A Thrash + parry and his Sunder Armor on the MT can add up to 20k damage in a second. It's all about hoping that doesn't happen.
We did Maulgar last night with only one lock, we had a couple of rough starts, but nothing that could be attributed to the lack of a warlock.
Morogrim is easier with lock ae, and locks are superior kiters for striders on the Vashj fight. I guess a hunter or mage could do it as well but the chore seems ideal for a warlock's skill set.
Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Except my fucking guild isn't out of Kara yet. :x
Here we are, having cleared everything but the two dragons and Illhoof, and we suddenly the main raiders no longer want to raid. So I have to go with the scrubs group, who proceeds to wipe on Moroes 5 times before calling it a night.
Leotheras is also reportedly a lot easier with lock FR tank then with a regular tank (because it's an enrage timed fight and if you normal tank it, melee can't DPS during that phase or get burninated).
In general, locks are made of win and awesome.