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[Formula One & motorsport] Round 21, Brazil: Wacky Races starring Dick Dastardly

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Mulletude wrote: »
    I'm fairly new to F1. What other seasons have had cars that just outclassed everyone like this?

    My limited knowledge tells me Merc at least a couple times since Rosberg and Lewis were racing together.

    Maybe 2014 or 2016 are the closest comparisons. 2014 everyone widely assumed Merc were sandbagging. None of the more recent 5-6ish years of Merc were anything like what Red Bull has. Even in those seasons, Verstappen himself was there to pick up 3-4 wins a season despite being the better part of half a second off in qualifying most of the time.

  • evilbobevilbob RADELAIDERegistered User regular
    2004 Ferrari was up there.

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  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Mulletude wrote: »
    I'm fairly new to F1. What other seasons have had cars that just outclassed everyone like this?

    My limited knowledge tells me Merc at least a couple times since Rosberg and Lewis were racing together.

    Maybe 2014 or 2016 are the closest comparisons. 2014 everyone widely assumed Merc were sandbagging. None of the more recent 5-6ish years of Merc were anything like what Red Bull has. Even in those seasons, Verstappen himself was there to pick up 3-4 wins a season despite being the better part of half a second off in qualifying most of the time.

    I would say 2014-2016 was like this. 2014, Mercedes had 11 1-2 finishes in 19 races. 2015 they had 12. 2016 Mercedes won every race except Spain where they crashed into each other, and Malaysia where Lewis' engine exploded while he was leading (and Rosberg got hit by Vettel on lap 1 and ended up at the back of the field).

    2015 I think was a bit overhyped as a "ooh Ferrari are challenging!" year only because Vettel won the 2nd race. He also won in Hungary (partly because Lewis got a drive-through penalty, remember those?) and Singapore and that's it.

    EDIT: Rosberg got a lot of shit from 2014-2016, but honestly now I kind of feel for him. In hindsight I think he was very under-rated. And you have to guess that had Mercedes not signed Hamilton, he would have been the one winning the world championship in 2014-2016 and maybe beyond.

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  • CarpyCarpy Registered User regular
    It was before I started watching but wasn't the W11 also similarly dominant

  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    The 92 williams was also... quite insane, and it was normal for only a handful of cars to finish on the lead lap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Formula_One_World_Championship

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited June 2023
    Carpy wrote: »
    It was before I started watching but wasn't the W11 also similarly dominant

    Max got two Red Bull wins that season, Alpha Tauri got Gasly's one at Monza, and Perez had his Sakhir one with Racing Point. 13 of 17 (76% winrate) races is certainly dominant but Max was very close to Lewis each weekend in a way that nobody really is this year, so even when Lewis did win, there were quite a few times where Max could easily have done so.

    I dont' think that's true this year - Red Bull has won every race and it's not really ever been in doubt from the start of each race. a 76% winrate this year would mean Red Bull fails to win 5 of the next 15 races, and I don't see that happening unless simultaneously; Max has a bad weekend AND Perez has a bad weekend AND mechanical reliability hits Max.

    Dhalphir on
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    i think the reliability aspect of the red bull should definitely not be overlooked

    even when the mercedes was utterly godlike it was fragile, as have been many great cars over the years

    im really surprised with the weight requirements of this car we're not seeing more failures across the field.... in fact really this year we've seen few mechanical DNFs from anyone in the entire field... im wondering why

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  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    Jasconius wrote: »
    The 92 williams was also... quite insane, and it was normal for only a handful of cars to finish on the lead lap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Formula_One_World_Championship

    And, as pointed out recently, the 1988 McLaren that won 15 of 16 races that year, although it was a close fight between Senna and Prost.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Formula_One_World_Championship

    Jazz on
  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    We attended the INDY500 this year, first motorsports of any kind other than a demolition derby.

    INDY was a lot of fun, group already planning on going next year and get a couple of cars to tailgate in the inner lots.

    We were right on top of turn 4 and biggest thing for me was how goddamn fast those cars go. TV does not communicate their speed.

    Wild race.

  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    24h of LeMans, the 100 year anniversary, is this weekend.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBjVQwgtB8U

    At the end of the month is the Classic Version of LeMans - still debating with myself to go there and have a watch, not sure if I want to make the journey.

  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Do they run the configuration without the chicane splitting the straight?

    I know I've told this story before, but back when I was playing Forza Motorsport 4 and raced weekly with the PA Car Club, my absolute favourite moment was when we did Circuit de la Sarthe and I argued we should race without the chicane. I was almost voted down, but I didn't back down and the rest of the car club aquiesced.

    The reason I wanted that straight was because I had a McLaren F1 tuned so insanely low drag that it was like driving on ice, but it was a fucking rocket in a straight line.

    We started the race and I was instantly in last place, sliding around the corners. I wondered if I had made a mistake and this was actually going to be torture...but then I made it to the straight and put the hammer down.

    I swear to god I was catching cars so fast it was like they were standing still. I was calling passes well in advance because I had a top speed something like 60+ MPH higher than anyone else. The controls were twitchy as hell and I was sure I was going to crash at the bend in the straight. But I held it all the way and caught the leaders by the end.

    I think we did only 3 or 4 laps, and I placed 4th or something. I think. But all I really remember is gripping the wheel with white knuckles, dodging other cars and trying not to spin out at 240MPH.

  • CarpyCarpy Registered User regular
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    24h of LeMans, the 100 year anniversary, is this weekend.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBjVQwgtB8U

    At the end of the month is the Classic Version of LeMans - still debating with myself to go there and have a watch, not sure if I want to make the journey.

    NASCAR ran a car in it this year for their 75th anniversary as well

    gyz4odqp7xfr.jpg


  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Do they run the configuration without the chicane splitting the straight?

    I know I've told this story before, but back when I was playing Forza Motorsport 4 and raced weekly with the PA Car Club, my absolute favourite moment was when we did Circuit de la Sarthe and I argued we should race without the chicane. I was almost voted down, but I didn't back down and the rest of the car club aquiesced.

    The reason I wanted that straight was because I had a McLaren F1 tuned so insanely low drag that it was like driving on ice, but it was a fucking rocket in a straight line.

    We started the race and I was instantly in last place, sliding around the corners. I wondered if I had made a mistake and this was actually going to be torture...but then I made it to the straight and put the hammer down.

    I swear to god I was catching cars so fast it was like they were standing still. I was calling passes well in advance because I had a top speed something like 60+ MPH higher than anyone else. The controls were twitchy as hell and I was sure I was going to crash at the bend in the straight. But I held it all the way and caught the leaders by the end.

    I think we did only 3 or 4 laps, and I placed 4th or something. I think. But all I really remember is gripping the wheel with white knuckles, dodging other cars and trying not to spin out at 240MPH.

    I was there in a Mazda 787, and that F1 flying by like that was just ridiculously funny

  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    Man getting fed all these Le Mans videos on youtube and holy hell that cup car sounds good. BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

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  • MulletudeMulletude Registered User regular
    There's going to be alternate commentary for the Canadian GP. Danny Riccardo and Will Arnett

    I'm definitely going with that one.

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  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    The cup cars have always had a pretty fantastic sound, and hey it's not the slowest car on the track which is neat. Supposedly the Cadillac and the NASCAR sound nearly the same.

    This safety car period has been utterly ridiculous though, it has just lasted so very long.

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  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    I watched the first 5 hours of the race before switching to the Champions League Final. Those safety car phases sure were long.

    So far nobody is really running away with it, looks like most of the hypercars are competitive. Nice to see so many manufacturers. I am wondering though, why no BMW or Mercedes is in the GTE class - its only Porsches, Ferraris and Aston Martins.

    EDIT: Oh crap, within the span of like half a lap, things got ugly. First the leading #51 Ferrari got spun around and lost lots of time. Then a GTE Ferrari got tagged in the beginning of a slow zone and one of the results is that the #7 Toyota is out of the race, while running in 2nd or 3rd at the time. Damn, this race turns on a dime.

    TheBigEasy on
  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    So, turns out Ferrari can still win stuff.

    First appearance in the top class at Le Mans since 1973 - 50 years.
    First outright win in Le Mans since 1965.
    One of the drivers was Antonio Giovanazzi.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGpKisk8Qs0

    I watched the first 8-ish hours of the race (with a break for the CL Final in between) and the last about 6 hours. It was pretty spectacular.

    16 cars in the Hypercar category.
    4 Porsches
    3 Cadillacs
    2 Toyotas
    2 Ferraris
    2 Peugeots
    2 Glickenhaus
    1 VanWall (never heard of them before - not really sure what kind of car that is)

    Only 3 out of those outright retired, some were thrown back in the order due to accidents / technical failures but most of them finished.

    Two biggest disappointements in the GTE class were, that the Iron Dames Ferrari only came in 4th, just 5 seconds behind 3rd and that Michael Fassbender crashed the Proton Porsche he was driving out of the race with about 4 hours to go. That was really sad to see. And judging by the Porsche YouTube series over the last few years of his way to Le Mans, he will beat himself up about that for ages.

    Anyways - it was the 100th anniversary and 91st running of the race. There were about 325.000 spectators - just a "sea of humanity" as the commentators described it. One of these days, I need to attend this event.

    EDIT: Fassbenders crash. He tried to avoid a track limits penalty and overdid it and ended up in the barrier.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dlqjph6bUw

    EDIT II: The full race highlights.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNlgq65gCGA

    TheBigEasy on
  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Q1
    A lot of impeding. Sainz in particular needs a penalty. Parking it there was stupid and dangerous.

  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    Some luck for Stroll.

    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    Some luck for Stroll.
    He got lucky to keep it out of the wall, but in the end it didn't really help him. He can't manage any good luck without balancing it with the bad, unfortunately.

    I was super skeptical of Albon and Norris going to the soft tire early, but they certainly made it work. I think it'll be an interesting Q3, Mercedes has a real chance of overperforming here (and I know their car is better, but it's still not where you expect Mercedes to be after the past decade or so of excellence).

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  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    Q2
    Excellent job by Albon in these conditions. Some big scalps in Leclerc , Perez and Stroll. Leclerc sounded pissed - and rightfully so given he called the switch to softs at the right time.

    altid on
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    WET

  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    Q3

    (A gif of Hulk putting up an umbrella)

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    LOL at
    Ferrari continuing to do Ferrari things. It's almost like their strategy team sucks ass and has always been the biggest problem.

  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    Post-Qualy
    i9kppi11x507.png

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  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    Drovek wrote: »
    Post-Qualy
    i9kppi11x507.png
    Gutted for Haas. They had the right call and still got screwed :(

    The Merc is absolutely atrocious at putting heat in the tires.

  • JazzJazz Registered User regular
    Gutted for Hulkenberg.

  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    Honestly this sounds like 100% bullshit:
    “The driver had just finished his fastest lap and had started another push lap,” the stewards explained. “He was at [turn one] when the red flag was displayed, however at that point he was already 1.5 seconds over his delta time. He claimed this made it extremely difficult for him to come below the delta in the next sector.”

    How can you already be above the delta time at the exact moment the red flag is shown?

    https://www.racefans.net/2023/06/18/hulkenberg-loses-front-row-start-after-penalty-for-speeding-through-red-flags/

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  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Unfortunate for Hulkenberg, but the FIA are very strict (as they should be) on red flag infringements. They did mitigate it down from a 10 place drop to only 3 though.

    Q2 was the pivotal moment. Jumping onto slicks early was the right move. Albon timed it perfectly but Williams also had nothing to lose so took the risk more readily. Leclerc realized what the conditions were like and called for a switch to softs - but was told to go do a banker lap instead. End result is that he missed all of the windows and dropped out in Q2. Just normal Ferrari things. I'd note that Leclerc is now in his 5th year with Ferrari. For comparison, Vettel lasted 6 seasons (although was fired after 5) and Alonso also only lasted 5 seasons. Both of them had better results in that time than Leclerc, but that's more a reflection on Ferrari as a team than Leclerc as a driver. I wouldn't be surprised if he was considering his options for the future.

    The other big name casualties of Q2 - Perez and Stroll - just seemed short on pace. The RB pace should have made it easy to cover off any tyre issues. Stroll couldn't keep it on the track even when on inters. I'm starting to wonder if Stoll is just done, given that he was usually decent in damp conditions in the past. Mercedes almost lost out with Hamilton due to missing the slicks window - but his inters time was good enough to beat Perez, Stroll and Leclerc in the end.

    Sainz is very lucky to get away with only a 3 place drop. Should have been more.

  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    On Sainz
    I am genuinely very surprised that he didn't pick up a second "under investigation" in Q2 for doing essentially the same thing in the same place. I can't remember who it was exactly but Sainz was definitely dawdling along in the middle of the road right before the chicane again

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  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    On Sainz
    I am genuinely very surprised that he didn't pick up a second "under investigation" in Q2 for doing essentially the same thing in the same place. I can't remember who it was exactly but Sainz was definitely dawdling along in the middle of the road right before the chicane again
    If I'm remembering that instance correctly, he was off the racing line but also not way off the racing line in the deep water. It looked worse than it was and the lack of penalty seemed fine to me.

    As for Hulkenberg, from the description the penalty sounds super harsh but there could easily be something more that I'm not aware of. Sucks to lose out on a front row start, though in the end it isn't terribly likely to matter.

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  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    chrisnl wrote: »
    On Sainz
    I am genuinely very surprised that he didn't pick up a second "under investigation" in Q2 for doing essentially the same thing in the same place. I can't remember who it was exactly but Sainz was definitely dawdling along in the middle of the road right before the chicane again
    If I'm remembering that instance correctly, he was off the racing line but also not way off the racing line in the deep water. It looked worse than it was and the lack of penalty seemed fine to me.

    As for Hulkenberg, from the description the penalty sounds super harsh but there could easily be something more that I'm not aware of. Sucks to lose out on a front row start, though in the end it isn't terribly likely to matter.

    On Sainz
    The second incident was Q2, Hamilton and Albon passing him into the final chicane. It appeared as though he was drifting back onto the racing line as Albon was coming past but since both set faster laps that's probably why he got away with it. Still poor form though.

    Sainz' reaction to being penalized was also pretty poor:
    "It was very tight with the flag, the flag was about to fall. I got impeded seven times today," Sainz said.

    "I’m not shouting on the radio in Turn 13. Other drivers chose to use the radio more than others.

    "Some incidents are under investigation others are not it depends howe much you shout on the radio and how much you complain.

    "The flag was about to fall and also it was a bit every man for himself and I had to go. If not I would have missed my qualifying lap also and I was getting impeded at the time too."
    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/sainz-handed-canada-f1-grid-drop-for-impeding-gasly/10484395/

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Race
    Bad mistake from Russell.
    Theatrics from Alonso in the pit lane.

  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    The battle between Hamilton and Alonso is pretty interesting, especially since it sounds like Alonso is having to save some fuel (been a while since I've heard that one). Nice recovery drive so far for Russell. Basically no challenge for Verstappen so far, and I'm really surprised that Perez hasn't been able to get past the Ferraris.

    The return of DRS trains is disappointing, but as long as DRS exists it is a very large risk.

    -edit- Spoke too soon on Russell, brake failure I think ends his day. A damn shame, but ultimately it was his own mistake that caused it. -edit-

    chrisnl on
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  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    chrisnl wrote: »
    The battle between Hamilton and Alonso is pretty interesting, especially since it sounds like Alonso is having to save some fuel (been a while since I've heard that one). Nice recovery drive so far for Russell. Basically no challenge for Verstappen so far, and I'm really surprised that Perez hasn't been able to get past the Ferraris.

    The return of DRS trains is disappointing, but as long as DRS exists it is a very large risk.
    Brundle was just saying it's likely not fuel but brakes.
    2 safety's, one lengthy, should have taken care of fuel concerns.


    Edit:
    Shit, Russell out. Damage caught up with him finally.

    Aridhol on
  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    Aridhol wrote: »
    chrisnl wrote: »
    The battle between Hamilton and Alonso is pretty interesting, especially since it sounds like Alonso is having to save some fuel (been a while since I've heard that one). Nice recovery drive so far for Russell. Basically no challenge for Verstappen so far, and I'm really surprised that Perez hasn't been able to get past the Ferraris.

    The return of DRS trains is disappointing, but as long as DRS exists it is a very large risk.
    Brundle was just saying it's likely not fuel but brakes.
    2 safety's, one lengthy, should have taken care of fuel concerns.

    Oh okay, that makes sense. I've missed some of the commentary as I'm doing laundry, so thanks for the update!

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  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    edited June 2023
    Race
    I think Albon deserves mad props for pulling off that defence, given the age of his tyres it's remarkable to me he managed to keep Ocon behind at the end (though I think Norris' last minute dive forcing Ocon to defend sealed the deal)

    It's not like DRS wasn't working either as there were few passes in the zone, he just managed to really make the most of the car so hats off to him

    Surprisingly good showing from Ferrari as well

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  • BlazeFireBlazeFire Registered User regular
    Race
    I think Albon deserves mad props for pulling off that defence, given the age of his tyres it's remarkable to me he managed to keep Ocon behind at the end (though I think Norris' last minute dive forcing Ocon to defend sealed the deal)

    It's not like DRS wasn't working either as there were few passes in the zone, he just managed to really make the most of the car so hats off to him

    Surprisingly good showing from Ferrari as well
    Initially it looked like Ferrari may have botched it again with not pitting during the first safety opportunity but ultimately it worked for them.

  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    Race
    I think Albon deserves mad props for pulling off that defence, given the age of his tyres it's remarkable to me he managed to keep Ocon behind at the end (though I think Norris' last minute dive forcing Ocon to defend sealed the deal)

    It's not like DRS wasn't working either as there were few passes in the zone, he just managed to really make the most of the car so hats off to him

    Surprisingly good showing from Ferrari as well
    Initially it looked like Ferrari may have botched it again with not pitting during the first safety opportunity but ultimately it worked for them.
    I didn't have a problem with the two Ferrari cars and Perez staying out during the safety car, since they were on the hard compound and it was way too early to move away from it. I'm glad it worked out for them for once, I think this is the first race in a while where they didn't make any obvious strategy mistakes. Granted, LeClerc got screwed over in qualifying when they told him to bank a lap on the inters instead of switching to softs, so they still botched it.

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