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Writers and actors may be on strike, but [TV] persists

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    Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    Nah, it's badly done

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    I watched the trailer and went "Oh man that looks terrible" and then never watched the show.

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    MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    Bloods End wrote: »
    Nah, it's badly done

    I'd love to hear you elaborate on what's bad about it other than you just don't like the look of it.

    What shadows and highlighting are off and don't match the scene? What color reflections don't match up? What shots didn't get a proper texture pass? Give some actual criticisms of the technical aspects since you're doubling down that it was poorly done.

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    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    DJ Eebs wrote: »
    I think the finale of She-Hulk is among the worst things the MCU has done, at least creatively

    To expand on this a little:

    She-Hulk is a show built on breaking the fourth wall, primarily because the character in the comics has broken the fourth wall. This pays off in the finale, where...I'll put it in spoilers
    She-Hulk gets mad that her story is badly written, and goes to the writer's room for the show and to Kevin Feige as a robot to complain and get everything fixed up the way she wants, concluding at the end that she "smashes bad writing." That's an interesting swing, and in the process, they complain about how the MCU has been bad!

    Here's the problem with that: it's all extremely toothless. The bad writing that she complains about is crammed in specifically so she could complain about how it's bad writing. The complaints she has about the MCU are in the same realm as when Wreck It Ralph 2 has all the princesses on screen to go "haha sorry that these movies were problematic!!!" or when their theme parks go "isn't it's a small world an annoying song???" They're all very surface level and tepid because they can't go "our shit sucks" and then sell you on keeping your Disney+ subscription and play "when you wish upon a star" at you a thousand times.

    It's also very bold to close a season of television that had one episode of its run live up to the premise of what it was doing (the episode where she teams up with Daredevil, which brings out the best of both the She-Hulk character and Daredevil, frankly) and then brag about how they smash bad writing.

    It's frustrating in the way that Wandavision or Loki weren't, because even though I found those shows frustrating, they didn't also call attention to how the entire franchise they were in was frustrating as a victory lap.

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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    the first 2? episodes of she-hulk are bad, it looks bad, it's badly written, it kinda lacks direction, and it just feels like a bunch of lines intended to create twitter hashtags about what a Strong Female Girlboss would say and do

    then it kinda finds its footing and gets funny and just does mostly low stakes stuff and then remember it's a marvel show like all the marvel shows and has just the worst ending

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    For all I know it could be totally technically competent while still looking like dogshit

    Just the best, most accurately rendered dog shit on TV

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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    She hulk
    She-Hulk gets mad that her story is badly written, and goes to the writer's room for the show and to Kevin Feige as a robot to complain and get everything fixed up the way she wants, concluding at the end that she "smashes bad writing."

    Oh no

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    also, she hulk has the culture war problem where the chuds hate it sight unseen because woman doing things and most obnoxious leftist reactionaries will say it's brilliant because chuds hate it and it's all very tiring

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    The Ghostbusters 2016 Conundrum

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    LarsLars Registered User regular
    Have any of the MCU shows managed to have a good final episode?

    Maybe "What If?"?

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Odin wrote: »
    Bloods End wrote: »
    I know there was that article about how they struggled with writing for the legal portions, but it's does it ever get actually funny? The lead writer wrote on Corporate and bajillion dollar properties and this is kinda painful

    She Hulk is more of a sitcom, the courtroom stuff usually involves ridiculous scenarios, they're not really going for legal drama.

    And yeah, I'd say it gets funnier as they introduce more of the supporting cast and lean more into the silliness

    Yeah but I remember they kept citing Ally McBeal as a prominent piece of inspiration during the lead up to the premiere of the show.

    Which, ultimately, probably did it no favors because as insane and goofy as Ally McBeal was, it was also a competently done legal show.

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Just alternate watching episodes of Ally McBeal and the Incredible Hulk imo

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    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    I refuse to believe What If? had a single good episode

    I think Hawkeye's final episode was pretty good, overall? It felt the most like, "hey, we've finished this story." I haven't watched Falcon/Winter Soldier or Moon Knight, to be fair

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    shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    Yeah She-Hulk finale
    replaces a scenario that the show built up to (but is now calling bad and stupid) with literally nothing as the climax instead. And then does a touchdown dance about its... cleverness (??). Calling it the best MCU TV show can only be read as a harsh indictment on all of the others (my favorite is Wandavision, personally, but it has a lot of problems too).

    Edit: Changed my mind... I think my fave is Hawkeye, actually.

    shoeboxjeddy on
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    GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    edited June 2023
    It sucks that such an interesting storytelling device as breaking the fourth became nothing more than Deadpool congratulating you for being smarter than the story.

    Gustav on
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    minor incidentminor incident expert in a dying field njRegistered User regular
    Lars wrote: »
    Have any of the MCU shows managed to have a good final episode?

    Maybe "What If?"?

    Hawkeye probably had the closest thing to a good finale episode because it was just… fine?

    Most everything else has has aggressively bad finales.

    Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
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    minor incidentminor incident expert in a dying field njRegistered User regular
    No, wait, the actual answer is Werewolf By Night.

    Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
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    minor incidentminor incident expert in a dying field njRegistered User regular
    Yeah She-Hulk finale
    replaces a scenario that the show built up to (but is now calling bad and stupid) with literally nothing as the climax instead. And then does a touchdown dance about its... cleverness (??). Calling it the best MCU TV show can only be read as a harsh indictment on all of the others (my favorite is Wandavision, personally, but it has a lot of problems too).

    Edit: Changed my mind... I think my fave is Hawkeye, actually.

    To be clear, when I said it was the best written Marvel show that was absolutely a harsh indictment. I do think the bulk of it is very fun and decently written, especially through the DD episodes, but it honestly doesn’t take a lot to be the king of shit mountain.

    Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    Yeah She-Hulk finale
    replaces a scenario that the show built up to (but is now calling bad and stupid) with literally nothing as the climax instead. And then does a touchdown dance about its... cleverness (??). Calling it the best MCU TV show can only be read as a harsh indictment on all of the others (my favorite is Wandavision, personally, but it has a lot of problems too).

    Edit: Changed my mind... I think my fave is Hawkeye, actually.

    To be clear, when I said it was the best written Marvel show that was absolutely a harsh indictment. I do think the bulk of it is very fun and decently written, especially through the DD episodes, but it honestly doesn’t take a lot to be the king of shit mountain.

    You have to use the descriptor "MCU" TV show because the stuff premiering on Disney+ can't hold a candle to Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage

    Zonugal on
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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    DJ Eebs wrote: »
    I refuse to believe What If? had a single good episode

    I think Hawkeye's final episode was pretty good, overall? It felt the most like, "hey, we've finished this story." I haven't watched Falcon/Winter Soldier or Moon Knight, to be fair

    bird and chilly boy is both the worst written and most cowardly shows marvel has done, it is insulting

    moon knight is really fun until the final climactic battle doesn't involve moon knight and basically nullifies most of what happens because marvel

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    shalmeloshalmelo sees no evil Registered User regular
    Lars wrote: »
    Have any of the MCU shows managed to have a good final episode?

    Maybe "What If?"?

    Hawkeye probably had the closest thing to a good finale episode because it was just… fine?

    Most everything else has has aggressively bad finales.

    Hawkeye is the only D+ Marvel show that I managed to finish, so I have to give it the best finale by default. And even that one was mostly coasting on the fumes of my residual affection for the Matt Fraction run that they were cribbing from

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    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    I think Hawkeye is overall the best show they've done, even if I think the Kingpin stuff is really clumsily handled so they can set up a big surprise reveal late in the series to get the show trending on Twitter at one in the morning. Ms. Marvel mostly works, that show's main problem is that it crams two seasons of television into like 8 episodes because she's gotta be in a Captain Marvel movie

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    One of these days I may go and actually watch ANY of the shows Disney+ has released

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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    There was a hawkeye show?

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    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    There was a hawkeye show?

    yeah, unfortunately the main thing Disney's bothered to carry on from the show is the purposefully bad Avengers musical in the first episode

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    MagellMagell Detroit Machine Guns Fort MyersRegistered User regular
    The big takeaway for all of the Disney+ MCU shows is that they're built up to interact with movies, but none of it is released at the time to matter with the movie it's supposed to lead up to. So all of the tv shows have their stories fucked up for no reason.

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    Johnny ChopsockyJohnny Chopsocky Scootaloo! We have to cook! Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered User regular
    edited June 2023
    One of these days I may go and actually watch ANY of the shows Disney+ has released

    Are you just talking about MCU shows? Because if you're avoiding all Disney+ shows, there's some fantastic stuff there.

    Like DuckTales 2018. That would be a great place to start.

    Johnny Chopsocky on
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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    DJ Eebs wrote: »
    There was a hawkeye show?

    yeah, unfortunately the main thing Disney's bothered to carry on from the show is the purposefully bad Avengers musical in the first episode

    It's so bad, that whole bit makes me so angry argh

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    One of these days I may go and actually watch ANY of the shows Disney+ has released

    Are you just talking about MCU shows? Because if you're avoiding all Disney+ shows, there's some fantastic stuff there.

    Like DuckTales 2018. That would be a great place to start.

    Marvel stuff. I’ve watched Ducktales and …The Secret of Sulfur Springs

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    LarsLars Registered User regular
    It's been a long time since What If?, but the main thing I remembered is that the big final battle seemed to have actually been built up to instead of "final episode, time for sky beams" that could happen in the other shows.

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    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    Magell wrote: »
    The big takeaway for all of the Disney+ MCU shows is that they're built up to interact with movies, but none of it is released at the time to matter with the movie it's supposed to lead up to. So all of the tv shows have their stories fucked up for no reason.

    Honestly, the problem with the MCU wanting to be interconnected is that they make all these choices that are like, "we're setting up THIS" and then the next movie or show comes along and whoever is writing that show or movie doesn't give a shit about that new status quo and just does away with it in three minutes of screentime and moves on. The funniest example of this is when Tony blows up all of his suits at the end of Iron Man 3 and then immediately has a new fleet in Age of Ultron, but Age of Ultron also ends with "LOOK AT OUR NEW AVENGERS TEAM" and then in the first five minutes of Civil War, they blow up a building and break up. Nothing can last because it's not a living world. The MCU is built like a big television series, but they skip to the season finales of arcs you don't see. This can work fine, obviously, but their insistence that they need to put characters in place for certain events tanks some of those stories for what ultimately means nothing, and their shows are the most harmed by this

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I did watch the first 2 episodes of What If? Because I used to love the comic but…I didn’t care for it at all.

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    LarsLars Registered User regular
    DuckTales 2018 is so good.

    They built an entire episode around getting to deliver the "Yippee-ki-yay, Mr. Falcon" line from the TV censor of Die Hard.

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Secret of Sulfur Springs wasn’t terrible. It’s for a younger audience and the special effects are laughably bad sometimes but it’s a nifty mystery/time travel show

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    LarsLars Registered User regular
    Part of the problem I've had with the MCU these last few years is when it comes to the "We're building up to THIS" is that...there's no "THIS."

    Like, characters show up in post-credit scenes or the end of films and it's like "Wow, they've cast ____" but then it's like "Ok, where is ___ supposed to show up again?" There's no announced project they're a part of.

    (Spoilers for some of these cameos)
    The biggest offender is probably Hercules from Thor 4. I'm not aware of anything he's supposed to be in, and Thor 5 hasn't been announced or even scripted (last I heard, the director would like to do some kind of road trip thing for it if he comes back for it). I don't think they even gave Hercules a line, they just had the actor pose while wearing the costume.

    There's also Clea at the end of Dr. Strange 2, but I think they've at least announced a Dr. Strange 3 so we can probably assume she's in that.

    Even She-Hulk went and introduced Skaar at the very end (though I don't think he had an actor since he was purely CG and didn't have any lines).

    Sure, they may eventually get to these characters, but right now it just seems like things are even less planned out than the pre-Endgame era and they're just throwing stuff at a wall to see what sticks.

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I also think hype is killing them. I’ll hear all of this dialogue about how amazing a show is so my expectations are really high.

    When the show doesn’t meet them it just becomes disappointing

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    JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    Lars wrote: »
    Part of the problem I've had with the MCU these last few years is when it comes to the "We're building up to THIS" is that...there's no "THIS."

    Like, characters show up in post-credit scenes or the end of films and it's like "Wow, they've cast ____" but then it's like "Ok, where is ___ supposed to show up again?" There's no announced project they're a part of.

    (Spoilers for some of these cameos)
    The biggest offender is probably Hercules from Thor 4. I'm not aware of anything he's supposed to be in, and Thor 5 hasn't been announced or even scripted (last I heard, the director would like to do some kind of road trip thing for it if he comes back for it). I don't think they even gave Hercules a line, they just had the actor pose while wearing the costume.

    There's also Clea at the end of Dr. Strange 2, but I think they've at least announced a Dr. Strange 3 so we can probably assume she's in that.

    Even She-Hulk went and introduced Skaar at the very end (though I don't think he had an actor since he was purely CG and didn't have any lines).

    Sure, they may eventually get to these characters, but right now it just seems like things are even less planned out than the pre-Endgame era and they're just throwing stuff at a wall to see what sticks.

    I mean, I feel like some of this is ... good? Like, the general industry that exists around these movies means that lots of character developments can be predicted based on what the next eight movies coming out are gonna be about, because they need to get the marketting machine for those spun up early; so the cases where a character pops up that are actually surprising because you don't know what they're being set up for are rare. And yeah some of those may not pan out because plans change but I prefer that to having the only surprise be the big timeline powerpoint at SDCC.

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    LarsLars Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    JayKaos wrote: »
    I mean, I feel like some of this is ... good? Like, the general industry that exists around these movies means that lots of character developments can be predicted based on what the next eight movies coming out are gonna be about, because they need to get the marketting machine for those spun up early; so the cases where a character pops up that are actually surprising because you don't know what they're being set up for are rare. And yeah some of those may not pan out because plans change but I prefer that to having the only surprise be the big timeline powerpoint at SDCC.

    I can definitely see that. Though at the same time... (expanding on the first character in my above spoiler, from an MCU film from last year):
    ...it's hard to get excited about the surprise reveal of Brett Goldstein's Hercules when he literally does nothing but pose in a single scene and may never show up again.

    Lars on
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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Bloods End wrote: »
    Prodigy is a actively airing show

    was.

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    GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    Hyping a character probably doesn’t work when general audiences aren’t even remotely aware of them. And you can’t fall back on star power with casting when your audience doesn’t care about stars. So it lands with a shrug versus excitement.

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