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How can I prove that I'm paying my rent on time?
TetraNitroCubane
Not Angry...Just VERY Disappointed...Registered User regular
Not Angry...Just VERY Disappointed...Registered User regular
I live in an apartment complex, and every month on (or even before) the 1st of the month I drop off a check to pay my rent. I drop it off in a box specifically designed for tenants to deposit their payments at the apartment complex front office. Until now (which has been several years!) I have not had a problem with this.
Additionally, the landlord never cashes that check until the 7th of the month, or later. I never see it clear my bank account until then, and when asked about it, he always mentions that he's just too busy and backed up, but not to worry about it.
The problem is that the landlord just switched the entire apartment complex over to an online automated pay portal, where people are supposed to pay via credit card or direct connection to their bank account. I'm not doing either of those things, and he is legally required to accept check payments.
However, the automated system only recognizes that rent has been paid once the check has cleared. Meaning that despite my dropping off payment on (or before!) the 1st, the automated system sees payment going through on the 7th (or later!) and considers it late. So I'm getting slapped with late fees.
My question is as follows:
How on earth can I document and confirm that I've transferred my check to the landlord on time, preferably without requiring the landlord to acknowledge receipt of the payment? I want to be able to verify that I'm paying on time in the event I need to take legal action on this.
Thanks much in advance.
Additionally, the landlord never cashes that check until the 7th of the month, or later. I never see it clear my bank account until then, and when asked about it, he always mentions that he's just too busy and backed up, but not to worry about it.
The problem is that the landlord just switched the entire apartment complex over to an online automated pay portal, where people are supposed to pay via credit card or direct connection to their bank account. I'm not doing either of those things, and he is legally required to accept check payments.
However, the automated system only recognizes that rent has been paid once the check has cleared. Meaning that despite my dropping off payment on (or before!) the 1st, the automated system sees payment going through on the 7th (or later!) and considers it late. So I'm getting slapped with late fees.
My question is as follows:
How on earth can I document and confirm that I've transferred my check to the landlord on time, preferably without requiring the landlord to acknowledge receipt of the payment? I want to be able to verify that I'm paying on time in the event I need to take legal action on this.
Thanks much in advance.
TetraNitroCubane on
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Wouldn't that be easy to dismiss? Couldn't my landlord just assert I took the video on the 7th and claimed it was the 1st?
Smartphone videos are date stamped. Also if your complex has a TV or anything in the lobby with a date on it that can be used for additional evidence
Talk to the land lord
Worth a try, at the very least. There's no TV in the lobby, but at the very least I can timestamp a video.
I have talked to the landlord about it. They have told me it's an issue with the third party payment portal, not their issue. He also heavily leaned on me to use online payment instead.
This is a very good idea. That might lend much more credibility to the timed nature of the payment. Thank you.
On the 2nd of June 2023 I paid you in full. Let them dispute it if they believe it is wrong.
Best option, but there may be a fee depending on your bank. Usually it's peanuts.
Pay via credit card for the points and then immediately pay if off.
I'd be getting somewhere around $120 in cash back rewards annually if that was an option for me.
- be sure to date the check. There will be a photocopy of the check itself available to you from your bank, so produce those and request the removal of all the late fees. It's not your responsibility to deposit on time, it's your responsibility to pay on time.
- Automatic Check-Sending service from your bank, which will create the record. Most of them have a thing where they'll print and mail a physical check for you. This will produce a record as well.
But also like, you're going to have to abandon paper at some point and engage in digital transactions. I remember this from the previous H/A and I understand your security concerns, but it's the world we live in. Unless you've got a significant reason to fear online discovery, you're going to have to at some point get comfortable with the relatively low risk of modern financial systems.
"... what? I haven't had actual physical cheques in like two or three decades?"
Online transfer has a paper trail, the service department of my bank backing it, and hasn't cause me an issue in what must be approaching two decades of use in one form or another.
That isn't to say this experience is universal, or that others haven't had nightmare experiences.
More of a funny anecdote of how we seem to have opposite takes on the matter than any measure of convincing or nudging.
But HappylilElf is more correct. If the payment portal isn't charging you a fee for using a CC, get those points or cash back.
To address the ongoing concern: I don't care to make online payments for something the size of my rent. For one, that's a significant chunk of my available credit gone for a while each month, if I pay by CC and pay it off directly. For two, the landlord is already doing some stuff I don't consider above board - I'm not letting him have direct access to my checking account. I also just don't like the idea of linking my bank account to an online payment processor that doesn't give two fucks about my security. As far as I'm concerned, the moment I was asked to make an online account with all this information (name, address, phone number, email address, insurance information, and social security number), it's just a matter of time before it becomes leaked online due to a data breach. I'd rather not deal with any of that, because I can write a check and that's what I've been doing for 10 years at this point. I additionally have a history of bringing on the worst glitches ever, so why move away from what works?
I mean, consider me foolish or whatever, but that's just my comfort level.
Spool, your suggestion of having the bank cut and send the check sounds like a superb option. Thank you - I'm going to look into this deeper, and I appreciate the suggestion.
Every month you load your rent on to the card, then pay using the online rent app.
I don't know what the fees on preload cards is, I imagine it's more than 0%.
But it's a potential option
They have access to your checking account if you pay by check. Those numbers on the bottom are the equivalent of setting up ACH with automated systems, it's your routing and account numbers.
The issue I usually see is these online systems have convenience fees associated with them.
Alternatives available for this are using the bank payments like mentioned above, certified mail and sending it ahead of time, or delivering your check in person and getting a receipt from the landlord (if possible).
The late fees are likely to accumulate even if you do this, your very likely going to have to sue the landlord. This happened to my friends with the exact same shit in regards to late fees and the online system not accounting for paper checks and deposits (Morgan Communities/Properties). The landlord is not doing their job properly and is, more than likely, in violation of the law in your state.
What they do is take my money out of my account on the 25th, then handle the processing from there. I think the check gets mailed, but I also believe my credit union can be a middleman for digital payments.
Of course I couldn't do this until I consistently had more money in my account at the end of the month than a paycheck + potential other issues, so I now maintain a buffer of at least 1 paycheck in my account just in case things go screwy.
I would much rather pay the USPS for a money order than pay those dumb fuck fees just to prove a point.
Maybe a secondary/intermediary account would be helpful? Only put enough money into the 2nd account for rent. Then landlord doesn't have visibility into the primary account. Maybe bank shenanigans come in here with minimum deposit amounts or something like that.
At this point it comes back around to certified checks, which won't have your account number and any attempt at fraud is victimizing the bank.
The issue with any check is that the landlord is delaying deposit and claiming it was late, and bank records are generated upon deposit. With a certified check, bank records are generated upon creation, so you can prove when the check was written any given month, and while not iron clad that is something you can take to a judge for consideration.
It's not about caving to them, it's about using the system they want to use in order to give yourself a bonus.
They pay merchant fees to use a card and as long as you're paying it off and getting points? You're (in a very small way) screwing them in order to get a (small) amount of free cash.
Additionally generally there's more fraud protection and dispute power on a credit card than anything else, especially if you're catching it within 90 days. At least in the US.
Having worked in banking for over a decade? I would 100% give any merchant a credit card vs a debit card or a check. The ideal would be a cashier's check or money order but that's a hassle. From a personal finance perspective though credit cards are fake money as long as you pay attention. Debit cards/checks/ACH transactions? Those are your real money and it can much more easily become a huge headache.
99.99999999% of the time those online landlord "pay your rent" portals charge you a fee of $5-50.
The only way it makes sense to utilize for cash back is if it's 1% of your rent or under, and most of them I know are over that. If you've got the $0 fee landlord portal, by all means, make money off your landlord. In my previous 15 years of renting, I never came across one, though.
If you bank with a credit union, you can often talk them out of charging you a fee. Especially if you're doing this because your landlord is a jerk.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
If they do that? Call up Visa and report their asses. It's literally a violation of their merchant agreement to charge anything extra for using a Visa card. I think other cards have similar provisions but Visa is so huge that odds are that's the company that would matter.
There's ways to hide it but if they're dumb enough to add anything near a $50 charge for paying via credit card they won't be able to and Visa takes this kind of thing seriously because their entire business is built on their cards being "the same as" cash.
For real though, TNC should find local laws or reach out to a local tenants association in their area to see if they require a fee-less way to pay rent.