I thought a rug pull was when the promised use for a crypto/NFT thing was abandoned leaving it worthless? What was the promised usage for a meme coin? Surely it was all just for the lols from the start and there never was a rug to begin with?
A rug pull is when the people who have early access to a crypto product, sell a significant portion of the of the market cap, while product's value is determined by the ICO and initial run up/pump that happens following it.
Basically pulling the the value that propped up the product out from underneath everyone can sell quickly enough.
The use of the meme coin is as a thing which has value that can be exchanged for things. That's it. But that's the use of any currency, unless you want to use it to snort coke or light cigars with extremely dirty paper.
I thought a rug pull was when the promised use for a crypto/NFT thing was abandoned leaving it worthless? What was the promised usage for a meme coin? Surely it was all just for the lols from the start and there never was a rug to begin with?
A rug pull is when the people who have early access to a crypto product, sell a significant portion of the of the market cap, while product's value is determined by the ICO and initial run up/pump that happens following it.
Basically pulling the the value that propped up the product out from underneath everyone can sell quickly enough.
The use of the meme coin is as a thing which has value that can be exchanged for things. That's it. But that's the use of any currency, unless you want to use it to snort coke or light cigars with extremely dirty paper.
The use of a meme coin is as a speculative investment vehicle. That's it.
The rubes are the ones dumb enough to think they are the scammers and not the scammees. Despite all evidence to the contrary and all historical precedent.
I bet if someone made a coin called Rug Pull Coin, it'd make a billion. Tell everyone that the rug will be pulled eventually, but they still might be able to get in and out in time, watch it grow. People WANT that ultra volatile trajectory.
I can't tell how much it made since it looks like it rugpulled outside of the 5 months of archival data this site keeps.
Edit: looking at the history, because there's no regulation of crypto "ticker symbols" there have been quite a few coins under the RUG symbol. I was able to find:
THIS IS A RUG
THIS IS NOT A RUG LOL
Rug Pull When?
Rug Pull in 7 days
Rugcoin
Rugpullcoin
Rugpull Coin
Rug Pull Coin
Rug Pullcoin
And wouldn't you guess they were 9 for 9 all rug pulls?
I thought a rug pull was when the promised use for a crypto/NFT thing was abandoned leaving it worthless? What was the promised usage for a meme coin? Surely it was all just for the lols from the start and there never was a rug to begin with?
You'd be right.
But it seems like 'rug pull' now covers pump and dump schemes, so..
Rug pulls rather require a product that the creators pull support from when they run with the money, which can't happen with a crypto currency unless the devs are promising eg. smart contracts on top of it.
I thought a rug pull was when the promised use for a crypto/NFT thing was abandoned leaving it worthless? What was the promised usage for a meme coin? Surely it was all just for the lols from the start and there never was a rug to begin with?
You'd be right.
But it seems like 'rug pull' now covers pump and dump schemes, so..
Rug pulls rather require a product that the creators pull support from when they run with the money, which can't happen with a crypto currency unless the devs are promising eg. smart contracts on top of it.
Ostensibly the Coin that this... Girl (I refuse to defile the penny arcade forums with her internet handle) was putting together was supposed to be about creating some sort of community or such which is ostensibly ruined when said fans realize they've been functionally defrauded.
The promise of whatever new memecoin or other crypto thing is that this will definitely become the next Bitcoin, and you get to start on the ground floor that's going to hit $100k just like those folks a decade ago who were spurned as fools. You'll be laughing all the way to the bank when... and it was fraud
Which, considering there is still no actual reason for Bitcoin to exist, it's hard to really argue against. Because why shouldn't blowjob coin or Shiba Inu coin be valued at $100k? They're based on the same inherent worth
I thought a rug pull was when the promised use for a crypto/NFT thing was abandoned leaving it worthless? What was the promised usage for a meme coin? Surely it was all just for the lols from the start and there never was a rug to begin with?
You'd be right.
But it seems like 'rug pull' now covers pump and dump schemes, so..
Rug pulls rather require a product that the creators pull support from when they run with the money, which can't happen with a crypto currency unless the devs are promising eg. smart contracts on top of it.
Pump and Dump doesn't need to be associated with new investment thing, and doesn't need to be performed by the people who created it. Like, you can pump and dump a penny stock that has been around for years.
Rug pulls do seem to require the manipulation being done by people associated with the creation of the coin and kinda implies that's why the thing was created at all.
There's a bunch of examples on this page for Rug Pull being used by members of the crypto currency community for products which have nothing to degrade other than their perceived value.
Are you arguing that demonstrated usage is incorrect?
Sure.
But a rug pull implies degradation of the project which can't happen to a decentralized currency on its lonesome.
I assure you it can. The fact that launch supply was specifically directed to insider traders and that fees were jacked specifically to take advantage of early trading indicates that even if the ledger is decentralized, key control factors can absolutely be leveraged by founders.
There's a bunch of examples on this page for Rug Pull being used by members of the crypto currency community for products which have nothing to degrade other than their perceived value.
Are you arguing that demonstrated usage is incorrect?
Yes.
I mean, obviously the definition of the term has drifted based on the usage presented here.
But yes.
Sure.
But a rug pull implies degradation of the project which can't happen to a decentralized currency on its lonesome.
I assure you it can. The fact that launch supply was specifically directed to insider traders and that fees were jacked specifically to take advantage of early trading indicates that even if the ledger is decentralized, key control factors can absolutely be leveraged by founders.
I don't see how a starting structural advantage really guarantees the original issuer will successfully perform the pump and dump.
This is significantly different to laying or promising a smart contract platform on top of the block coin, and then pulling the rug on the project, leaving the investors who bought into the project plan in the lurch.
It rather sounds to me that the crypto community has just decided that rug pulls are too much effort, and are just spinning up coins for pump and dumping and calling that 'rug pulling' now.
Or maybe no-one is trying to invest in Blockchain solutions any more (which would be a relief).
Edit: Honestly it probably doesn't matter who had their money stolen (investors/random people buying into a memecoin), or how much effort was put into the deception. So I'm likely splitting hairs for no reason.
The first use of "rug pull" in crypto was AnubisDAO in 2022. They ran a major hype campaign in social media and raised a liquidity pool worth $60 million, and then those funds were withdrawn and their social media accounts closed.
That's what's happening with these meme coins. It's what's MEANT to happen - a few of the sites even have a mechanism where if you don't rug pull by a certain point the liquidity pool is burned and everybody loses, not just the ones left holding the latchcomb.
Meme coins are weird because IIRC dogecoin was actually was a meme - it being a stupid cryptocurrency worth cents was the entire joke. (Well, there was also a joke where people would hype up teeny-tiny fluctuations in dogecoin in response to whatever the latest bitcoin news was.)
And then IIRC Musk promoted it (as part of a transparent pump-and-dump scheme) and it became yet another fake stock and people got inspired to make all sorts of pump-and-dump/rugpull schemes "for the joke".
And thus you get actual Rugpull Coin and the Bernie Madoff NFT Collection and whatnot.
Rug pulls and memecoins are the logical extension of the cryptocurrency concept. It has no real use beyond illegal or shady transactions other then as a speculative investment vehicle. Which means you buy it to have it increase in value so you can sell it to make a profit. Which means the whole point is to get other people to buy it so you can make (hopefully lots) of money off it compared to your investment. And a rugpull is nothing but the most efficient way to do that, on multiple levels. There's no actual downside to the whole thing because holding the coins themselves or using them for something is never actually the point. The point is to make money.
Meme coins are weird because IIRC dogecoin was actually was a meme - it being a stupid cryptocurrency worth cents was the entire joke. (Well, there was also a joke where people would hype up teeny-tiny fluctuations in dogecoin in response to whatever the latest bitcoin news was.)
And then IIRC Musk promoted it (as part of a transparent pump-and-dump scheme) and it became yet another fake stock and people got inspired to make all sorts of pump-and-dump/rugpull schemes "for the joke".
And thus you get actual Rugpull Coin and the Bernie Madoff NFT Collection and whatnot.
It was also a play on words; Doge was the term for the leader of the merchant republic of venice while being phonetically close to "doggy".
Meme coins are weird because IIRC dogecoin was actually was a meme - it being a stupid cryptocurrency worth cents was the entire joke. (Well, there was also a joke where people would hype up teeny-tiny fluctuations in dogecoin in response to whatever the latest bitcoin news was.)
And then IIRC Musk promoted it (as part of a transparent pump-and-dump scheme) and it became yet another fake stock and people got inspired to make all sorts of pump-and-dump/rugpull schemes "for the joke".
And thus you get actual Rugpull Coin and the Bernie Madoff NFT Collection and whatnot.
It was also a play on words; Doge was the term for the leader of the merchant republic of venice while being phonetically close to "doggy".
It's not really phonetically close, though. Doge. The g is a "sh" sound and the e is silent (and the o is like that in dog, but long not short).
Honestly, how do you even find out a thing like this even exists to throw away money in in the first place before the inevitable headlines about fraud?
In which you learn that there are tens of millions of people living in a completely different world than you
Like 1 in 3 people in this country have some crypto, I don’t personally know of any of my acquaintances having any but I don’t talk about it
The election was a reminder, again like 2016, how far out of touch *I* am about shit, and it sucks
I would be curious what the average amount is. Like my brother bought 20$ in doge coin when it first came out for lulz. He sold at its high point and made enough to buy a high end Ebike with it. I can legit see dropping 20-50 bucks just for the lulz not enough to hurt if you lose it on some random crypto coin on the off chance magic hits and it goes bananas before it collapses. For anybody putting their life savings in a meme coin I have zero sympathy. It is like the junk bond era the only way to stop stupid people from blowing up their life savings it to make laws that prevent them from doing it. The urge to try to get rich quick is too strong for common sense.
Meme coins are weird because IIRC dogecoin was actually was a meme - it being a stupid cryptocurrency worth cents was the entire joke. (Well, there was also a joke where people would hype up teeny-tiny fluctuations in dogecoin in response to whatever the latest bitcoin news was.)
And then IIRC Musk promoted it (as part of a transparent pump-and-dump scheme) and it became yet another fake stock and people got inspired to make all sorts of pump-and-dump/rugpull schemes "for the joke".
And thus you get actual Rugpull Coin and the Bernie Madoff NFT Collection and whatnot.
For it to actually fulfill its purpose it would have needed to be crazily inflationary, to the point where after a few years people would be throwing it around by the quadrillions.
Cryptocurrencies in general would need to have some degree of inflation built in in order to function as actual currencies. They're usually designed as deflationary because the creators don't actually want a currency, just an investment vehicle they can dump later.
Yeah, that's part of what I'm saying about people having agency.
Ideally we should be regulating the Crypto space into the abyss and then pouring a couple dumptrucks worth of salt after it, but failing that, if people are allowed to do it, my empathy can only go so far when folks make wildly irrational choices around it.
I mean, barring people who are addicts and in need of help, I'd have similar issues with someone who dropped 35k on lottery tickets, or on Magic the Gathering cards in the hopes that their value would spike (there's an entire sub built around such speculating, though usually more in the tens to hundreds of dollars range, maybe thousands over a long period of time).
At what point does the freedom to spend ones money/resources conflict with allowing folks to do so in incredibly questionable ways?
We love a good story where someone bets big and wins big, but realistically the house (in whatever form that takes) probably wins the lion's share of the time.
And part of that frustration/umbrage comes from the fact that this kind of action has a literal body count attached to it. There's a reason that whenever crypto takes a plunge that the suicide helpline is stickied in the major subs. The stories of people losing their shirt and deciding to end it all, if not take their families with them. It's all digital magic beans and shitcoins until people actually die over it.
My earlier expressed ire may (and seemingly did) rub some the wrong way, but in part it's because there are innocents who suffer associated with these choices. College and retirement funds, wiped out. Old people getting caught up in pig butchering scams, or romance scams with 'celebrities', etc.
The growth of the crypto industry has been tied to many things, but the scam and ransomware industries are literally built on its back these days. And that has further ramifications, like when Bitcoin hit a previous high and a bunch of nerds went and bought out a ton of high value Magic cards, spiking the prices even further. Some some people hit it big and there can be ramifications, and others are (almost always, based on the zero sum or negative sum aspects of such things) losing big in some way.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Meme coins are weird because IIRC dogecoin was actually was a meme - it being a stupid cryptocurrency worth cents was the entire joke. (Well, there was also a joke where people would hype up teeny-tiny fluctuations in dogecoin in response to whatever the latest bitcoin news was.)
And then IIRC Musk promoted it (as part of a transparent pump-and-dump scheme) and it became yet another fake stock and people got inspired to make all sorts of pump-and-dump/rugpull schemes "for the joke".
And thus you get actual Rugpull Coin and the Bernie Madoff NFT Collection and whatnot.
For it to actually fulfill its purpose it would have needed to be crazily inflationary, to the point where after a few years people would be throwing it around by the quadrillions.
Cryptocurrencies in general would need to have some degree of inflation built in in order to function as actual currencies. They're usually designed as deflationary because the creators don't actually want a currency, just an investment vehicle they can dump later.
Nowadays, yes. The original cryptocurrency stuff was designed to be deflationary because the people making it were tech-libertarian idiots who knew nothing about economics except what they learned from other people in a Ron Paul reddit.
Meme coins are weird because IIRC dogecoin was actually was a meme - it being a stupid cryptocurrency worth cents was the entire joke. (Well, there was also a joke where people would hype up teeny-tiny fluctuations in dogecoin in response to whatever the latest bitcoin news was.)
And then IIRC Musk promoted it (as part of a transparent pump-and-dump scheme) and it became yet another fake stock and people got inspired to make all sorts of pump-and-dump/rugpull schemes "for the joke".
And thus you get actual Rugpull Coin and the Bernie Madoff NFT Collection and whatnot.
For it to actually fulfill its purpose it would have needed to be crazily inflationary, to the point where after a few years people would be throwing it around by the quadrillions.
Cryptocurrencies in general would need to have some degree of inflation built in in order to function as actual currencies. They're usually designed as deflationary because the creators don't actually want a currency, just an investment vehicle they can dump later.
Nowadays, yes. The original cryptocurrency stuff was designed to be deflationary because the people making it were tech-libertarian idiots who knew nothing about economics except what they learned from other people in a Ron Paul reddit.
I hate to say it, but to be fair to tech-libertarian idiots, most people are irrationally objected to inflation, because the whole thing is counter intuitive. People want deflation, and the job of central banks is to make sure they don't get it.
Meme coins are weird because IIRC dogecoin was actually was a meme - it being a stupid cryptocurrency worth cents was the entire joke. (Well, there was also a joke where people would hype up teeny-tiny fluctuations in dogecoin in response to whatever the latest bitcoin news was.)
And then IIRC Musk promoted it (as part of a transparent pump-and-dump scheme) and it became yet another fake stock and people got inspired to make all sorts of pump-and-dump/rugpull schemes "for the joke".
And thus you get actual Rugpull Coin and the Bernie Madoff NFT Collection and whatnot.
For it to actually fulfill its purpose it would have needed to be crazily inflationary, to the point where after a few years people would be throwing it around by the quadrillions.
Cryptocurrencies in general would need to have some degree of inflation built in in order to function as actual currencies. They're usually designed as deflationary because the creators don't actually want a currency, just an investment vehicle they can dump later.
Nowadays, yes. The original cryptocurrency stuff was designed to be deflationary because the people making it were tech-libertarian idiots who knew nothing about economics except what they learned from other people in a Ron Paul reddit.
I hate to say it, but to be fair to tech-libertarian idiots, most people are irrationally objected to inflation, because the whole thing is counter intuitive. People want deflation, and the job of central banks is to make sure they don't get it.
Yeah anyone who carries debt on a house, car, or credit card should want inflation as it means that the debt they owe becomes less valuable/smaller in comparison.
The biggest problem is companies no longer give raises to keep pace with inflation, and too many people don’t trust the job market to catch them combined with outside factors like healthcare and retirement plans being tied to their employers
Welp, Donald Trump launched his own memecoin yesterday (he posted about it on Truth Social, which I can't be arsed to link).
I know this is beyond the scope of this thread, but the level of graft and corruption in this administration is going to be breathtaking. Like, even compared to the first time around.
Why the crap did I ever make my original name "cloudeagle?"
Doubt he's going to rug it anytime soon
This is probably just another vehicle for foreign entities to give him money
When it's done serving that purpose then he'll rug it
Its not like he would be prosecuted for the inevitable rug. I wonder how many times he'll do it.
I mean... Didn't he already do it twice with NFTs?
Yep, but the scope of this one is far larger, Coffeezilla looks at some of the public stats on it, over a billion in trades already, 12+ million just in transaction fees and a potential cap of 13 billion.
It's just fucking massive.
BlackDragon480 on
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
Dear lord, I don’t pray much, but please let them be so focused on their greed and incompetence that it blunts the worst of their malicious desires to murder and destroy.
Posts
A rug pull is when the people who have early access to a crypto product, sell a significant portion of the of the market cap, while product's value is determined by the ICO and initial run up/pump that happens following it.
Basically pulling the the value that propped up the product out from underneath everyone can sell quickly enough.
The use of the meme coin is as a thing which has value that can be exchanged for things. That's it. But that's the use of any currency, unless you want to use it to snort coke or light cigars with extremely dirty paper.
The use of a meme coin is as a speculative investment vehicle. That's it.
The rubes are the ones dumb enough to think they are the scammers and not the scammees. Despite all evidence to the contrary and all historical precedent.
https://apespace.io/bsc/0xace1465944effe4e7201023e70ec5a386118d6bd
I can't tell how much it made since it looks like it rugpulled outside of the 5 months of archival data this site keeps.
Edit: looking at the history, because there's no regulation of crypto "ticker symbols" there have been quite a few coins under the RUG symbol. I was able to find:
THIS IS A RUG
THIS IS NOT A RUG LOL
Rug Pull When?
Rug Pull in 7 days
Rugcoin
Rugpullcoin
Rugpull Coin
Rug Pull Coin
Rug Pullcoin
And wouldn't you guess they were 9 for 9 all rug pulls?
You'd be right.
But it seems like 'rug pull' now covers pump and dump schemes, so..
Rug pulls rather require a product that the creators pull support from when they run with the money, which can't happen with a crypto currency unless the devs are promising eg. smart contracts on top of it.
Ostensibly the Coin that this... Girl (I refuse to defile the penny arcade forums with her internet handle) was putting together was supposed to be about creating some sort of community or such which is ostensibly ruined when said fans realize they've been functionally defrauded.
Which, considering there is still no actual reason for Bitcoin to exist, it's hard to really argue against. Because why shouldn't blowjob coin or Shiba Inu coin be valued at $100k? They're based on the same inherent worth
Pump and Dump doesn't need to be associated with new investment thing, and doesn't need to be performed by the people who created it. Like, you can pump and dump a penny stock that has been around for years.
Rug pulls do seem to require the manipulation being done by people associated with the creation of the coin and kinda implies that's why the thing was created at all.
But a rug pull implies degradation of the project which can't happen to a decentralized currency on its lonesome.
Are you arguing that demonstrated usage is incorrect?
Yes.
I mean, obviously the definition of the term has drifted based on the usage presented here.
But yes.
I don't see how a starting structural advantage really guarantees the original issuer will successfully perform the pump and dump.
This is significantly different to laying or promising a smart contract platform on top of the block coin, and then pulling the rug on the project, leaving the investors who bought into the project plan in the lurch.
It rather sounds to me that the crypto community has just decided that rug pulls are too much effort, and are just spinning up coins for pump and dumping and calling that 'rug pulling' now.
Or maybe no-one is trying to invest in Blockchain solutions any more (which would be a relief).
Edit: Honestly it probably doesn't matter who had their money stolen (investors/random people buying into a memecoin), or how much effort was put into the deception. So I'm likely splitting hairs for no reason.
That's what's happening with these meme coins. It's what's MEANT to happen - a few of the sites even have a mechanism where if you don't rug pull by a certain point the liquidity pool is burned and everybody loses, not just the ones left holding the latchcomb.
(except for the genuinely pitiable ones who have fully bought into the kayfabe with money they can't afford to lose)
And then IIRC Musk promoted it (as part of a transparent pump-and-dump scheme) and it became yet another fake stock and people got inspired to make all sorts of pump-and-dump/rugpull schemes "for the joke".
And thus you get actual Rugpull Coin and the Bernie Madoff NFT Collection and whatnot.
It was also a play on words; Doge was the term for the leader of the merchant republic of venice while being phonetically close to "doggy".
It's not really phonetically close, though. Doge. The g is a "sh" sound and the e is silent (and the o is like that in dog, but long not short).
I would be curious what the average amount is. Like my brother bought 20$ in doge coin when it first came out for lulz. He sold at its high point and made enough to buy a high end Ebike with it. I can legit see dropping 20-50 bucks just for the lulz not enough to hurt if you lose it on some random crypto coin on the off chance magic hits and it goes bananas before it collapses. For anybody putting their life savings in a meme coin I have zero sympathy. It is like the junk bond era the only way to stop stupid people from blowing up their life savings it to make laws that prevent them from doing it. The urge to try to get rich quick is too strong for common sense.
For it to actually fulfill its purpose it would have needed to be crazily inflationary, to the point where after a few years people would be throwing it around by the quadrillions.
Cryptocurrencies in general would need to have some degree of inflation built in in order to function as actual currencies. They're usually designed as deflationary because the creators don't actually want a currency, just an investment vehicle they can dump later.
Ideally we should be regulating the Crypto space into the abyss and then pouring a couple dumptrucks worth of salt after it, but failing that, if people are allowed to do it, my empathy can only go so far when folks make wildly irrational choices around it.
I mean, barring people who are addicts and in need of help, I'd have similar issues with someone who dropped 35k on lottery tickets, or on Magic the Gathering cards in the hopes that their value would spike (there's an entire sub built around such speculating, though usually more in the tens to hundreds of dollars range, maybe thousands over a long period of time).
At what point does the freedom to spend ones money/resources conflict with allowing folks to do so in incredibly questionable ways?
We love a good story where someone bets big and wins big, but realistically the house (in whatever form that takes) probably wins the lion's share of the time.
And part of that frustration/umbrage comes from the fact that this kind of action has a literal body count attached to it. There's a reason that whenever crypto takes a plunge that the suicide helpline is stickied in the major subs. The stories of people losing their shirt and deciding to end it all, if not take their families with them. It's all digital magic beans and shitcoins until people actually die over it.
My earlier expressed ire may (and seemingly did) rub some the wrong way, but in part it's because there are innocents who suffer associated with these choices. College and retirement funds, wiped out. Old people getting caught up in pig butchering scams, or romance scams with 'celebrities', etc.
The growth of the crypto industry has been tied to many things, but the scam and ransomware industries are literally built on its back these days. And that has further ramifications, like when Bitcoin hit a previous high and a bunch of nerds went and bought out a ton of high value Magic cards, spiking the prices even further. Some some people hit it big and there can be ramifications, and others are (almost always, based on the zero sum or negative sum aspects of such things) losing big in some way.
Nowadays, yes. The original cryptocurrency stuff was designed to be deflationary because the people making it were tech-libertarian idiots who knew nothing about economics except what they learned from other people in a Ron Paul reddit.
I hate to say it, but to be fair to tech-libertarian idiots, most people are irrationally objected to inflation, because the whole thing is counter intuitive. People want deflation, and the job of central banks is to make sure they don't get it.
Yeah anyone who carries debt on a house, car, or credit card should want inflation as it means that the debt they owe becomes less valuable/smaller in comparison.
The biggest problem is companies no longer give raises to keep pace with inflation, and too many people don’t trust the job market to catch them combined with outside factors like healthcare and retirement plans being tied to their employers
MWO: Adamski
Not a very deep dive, but just the.sheer chutzpa of this is amazing to me.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
I know this is beyond the scope of this thread, but the level of graft and corruption in this administration is going to be breathtaking. Like, even compared to the first time around.
Do not engage the Watermelons.
This is probably just another vehicle for foreign entities to give him money
When it's done serving that purpose then he'll rug it
I mean... Didn't he already do it twice with NFTs?
Yep, but the scope of this one is far larger, Coffeezilla looks at some of the public stats on it, over a billion in trades already, 12+ million just in transaction fees and a potential cap of 13 billion.
It's just fucking massive.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
Well not entirely, I'm sure they'd be happy to take American bribes as well!
I'm so goddamn tired and he's not even president yet.
I doubt it. It crashed down to $8.5 billion market cap. He's still doubled his net worth if it stays at that value.