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Let the fires burn across Rubicon in [ARMORED CORE] VI

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Posts

  • JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    Aw, the Songbirds were what got me through half the game, gonna feel that one when I get around to finishing NG+.

    Steam | SW-0844-0908-6004 and my Switch code
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Zimmers needed a nerf honestly, aggressive dual Zimmer builds just shit on everything (fun as it was).

  • NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    Here's all the new numbers side by side with the old numbers, same as the last balance patch got.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/armoredcore/comments/170lu2l/here_the_image_for_the_update_6_image/

  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    For me the powerpyx recommend build of getting as beefy as possible and running dual gatling guns with dual stun needles had eradicated everything. If the Zimmerman was even stronger than yeah, it definitely needed a nerf. Can't blame them for hitting my needles either. I played some more after the patch today and it still felt really strong. I don't care about PVP so hopefully they don't destroy PvE chasing the pvp balance.

    sig.gif Gamertag: KL Retribution
    PSN:Furlion
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Lasbrook wrote: »
    New patch notes are out and they did another round of buffing everything, including armor parts.

    ..but nerfed the Zimmerman and Songbirds,as well as running dual stun needle launchers.

    I mean the zimmerman was fucking out of control.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Zimmerman is probably still one of the best guns in the game.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    3cl1ps3 wrote: »
    Zimmerman is probably still one of the best guns in the game.

    The damage is great on them but the real pinnacle they provide is the immense stagger.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    it honestly sounds like all the strong stuff is still good, but other things can now compete.

    except ephemera core got absolutely brow beat wow (probably because of its generator adjustment stats)

    Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | Wish List
  • DrDinosaurDrDinosaur Registered User regular
    3cl1ps3 wrote: »
    Zimmerman is probably still one of the best guns in the game.

    The damage is great on them but the real pinnacle they provide is the immense stagger.

    Haven't tried the new iteration, but the pre-nerf Zims excelled in like every metric you might want in a weapon
    Good damage, great stagger buildup, and a killer direct hit modifier, plus an ideal range that minimizes the chance that an enemy will dodge

    Personally I'm excited to see handguns getting more ammo, dual laser handguns is fun but just not the same as the kinetic ones

  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    oh man i might run linear rifles now

  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    The ammo increase for the shoulder lasers interests me. I'd looked at them before with the idea of using them as primary weapons in a build, but they just didn't have the ammo to support that, it seemed to me. But with this I might have to throw a pair of them on a tetrapod and see what they can do.

  • NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    cB557 wrote: »
    The ammo increase for the shoulder lasers interests me. I'd looked at them before with the idea of using them as primary weapons in a build, but they just didn't have the ammo to support that, it seemed to me. But with this I might have to throw a pair of them on a tetrapod and see what they can do.

    they're great, esp combo'd with the regular laser rifles, one of the generators that boosts energy weapons and (optionally) tank treads (wheelchair). just rolling around as the quad glacier

    Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | Wish List
  • LasbrookLasbrook It takes a lot to make a stew When it comes to me and youRegistered User regular
    Lasbrook wrote: »
    New patch notes are out and they did another round of buffing everything, including armor parts.

    ..but nerfed the Zimmerman and Songbirds,as well as running dual stun needle launchers.

    I mean the zimmerman was fucking out of control.

    As a person playing a single player game, nah.

    It would be nice if they did what they did for Elden Ring eventually and have split balance for PVP.

  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    Lasbrook wrote: »
    Lasbrook wrote: »
    New patch notes are out and they did another round of buffing everything, including armor parts.

    ..but nerfed the Zimmerman and Songbirds,as well as running dual stun needle launchers.

    I mean the zimmerman was fucking out of control.

    As a person playing a single player game, nah.

    It would be nice if they did what they did for Elden Ring eventually and have split balance for PVP.

    As a person playing a single player game, yah

    It absolutely bugs me when there’s an obvious “correct” answer that makes the game way easier and using anything else feels way more suboptimal, and that’s kind of where the Zimmerman and Songbirds were at

    signature-deffo.jpg
    PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Lasbrook wrote: »
    Lasbrook wrote: »
    New patch notes are out and they did another round of buffing everything, including armor parts.

    ..but nerfed the Zimmerman and Songbirds,as well as running dual stun needle launchers.

    I mean the zimmerman was fucking out of control.

    As a person playing a single player game, nah.

    It would be nice if they did what they did for Elden Ring eventually and have split balance for PVP.

    As a person playing a single player game, yah

    It absolutely bugs me when there’s an obvious “correct” answer that makes the game way easier and using anything else feels way more suboptimal, and that’s kind of where the Zimmerman and Songbirds were at
    They were really good, and I think they were worth a nerf, but there were plenty of things that were more optimal in particular circumstances. I think what really made those weapons so widely used was that there weren't many situations they were just bad in, and it was a very simple, straightforward gameplan. Just go in, click all your buttons, now the enemy is staggered, click all your buttons again, repeat until one of you is dead.

  • GR_ZombieGR_Zombie Krillin It Registered User regular
    Zimmerman/Songbird just happened to fit into my goal of replicating the Kampfer attack from War in the Pocket, so I’m pleased they’re so powerful. Always nice when your preferred style ends up being effective

  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    The zimmerman's clearly became the perfect weapon based on how range bands were so compressed the 'long range shotgun' can accurately shoot next to rifles and the stagger being attached to burst meant there's zero downsides.

    They're a perfectly cool weapon concept entirely failed by the game's issues.

  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    Lasbrook wrote: »
    Lasbrook wrote: »
    New patch notes are out and they did another round of buffing everything, including armor parts.

    ..but nerfed the Zimmerman and Songbirds,as well as running dual stun needle launchers.

    I mean the zimmerman was fucking out of control.

    As a person playing a single player game, nah.

    It would be nice if they did what they did for Elden Ring eventually and have split balance for PVP.

    Back in the PS360 gen games they let you, if I remember right, change what kind of regulations you wanted to play under, so hopefully they’ll bring that back. I pretty sure changing from whatever the current one was locked PVP until you changed back, but it was set up basically so you could return to an earlier single player experience

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    bring back infinite flight for answer regulations

    Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | Wish List
  • SkeithSkeith Registered User regular
    Naphtali wrote: »
    bring back infinite flight for answer regulations

    I'm low key annoyed that my dreams of an Itano Circus are not possible in this game

    aTBDrQE.jpg
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    My final build ended up being midrange with two gatling guns and two zimmermans. It was so insanely busted that I barely struggled against the final final boss and absolutely ate the lunch of literally every other mech in the game.

    I still think that my original build was the more 'fun' way to play the game but you just can't beat the fun of efficiency and winning.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    I still think a major part of the issue is that mid to long range combat basically doesn't exist

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    I still think a major part of the issue is that mid to long range combat basically doesn't exist

    Trying to parse this so forgive me. You mean specifically the range between mid to long? Because Mid and Mid-close both worked great.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    I think they're just saying that nothing mid range or longer exists, due to the glancing hit or whatever system that makes most rifles need shotgun range anyway

    I ate an engineer
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Also boost kicks heavily incentivize close range.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    3cl1ps3 wrote: »
    Also boost kicks heavily incentivize close range.

    i mean boost kick and the melee weapons in general. That's been an armored core staple for a while, though. Close range generally has the best stuff.

    Mid range I would say there actually is a lot of? But anything further than that is basically moot.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    Most missile weapons have real long range. The gameplan for most dedicated missile ACs seems to be staying as far away from the enemy as possible and just pelting them with missiles.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    missiles also don't interact with the FCS stats other than the lock on speed modifiers though

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    Honestly I think I remember trying the Zimmerman and being like, this has the same effective range as my sword. It says it's a long range shotgun but it's a melee weapon. I was getting ricochets at barely above charge blade range.

    So I never really tried it again and kinda stuck to my nice Dual songbirds/Linear Rifle/Flex Slot configuration.

    Drascin on
    Steam ID: Right here.
  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    There's this one energy weapon build I had that wasn't really working. With this patch, I decided to take the one part of it that was working, the dual wielding laser shotgun katars hooked up to the 150 en spec generator, and bolt a pair of light wave cannons onto that. And god damn, if you can get in with that setup you can do some damage.

  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited October 2023
    For PC folks: someone’s apparently made a NEXT-style maneuverability mod, if you want that AC4/For Answer feel again:

    Spoilers for mid game mission:

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    There's both the glancing hits and the fact that if an enemy is aware of you, long range fire will just simply rarely hit. Missiles are another matter, but they're primarily to keep pressure on until you can get back into optimal engagement range I find. If the game is going to make you get into close range to both do effective damage and actually land the majority of your shots, weapons that are built for that range naturally start to pull ahead.

    Granted, I'm not really talking about PvP here because I don't care about that at all.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    There's both the glancing hits and the fact that if an enemy is aware of you, long range fire will just simply rarely hit. Missiles are another matter, but they're primarily to keep pressure on until you can get back into optimal engagement range I find. If the game is going to make you get into close range to both do effective damage and actually land the majority of your shots, weapons that are built for that range naturally start to pull ahead.

    Granted, I'm not really talking about PvP here because I don't care about that at all.

    Again I think mid range is viable. I don't think long range is but I also don't think it really should be better than the close range options because those require a lot more skill to effectively pull off.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Mid range, as defined by the game, generally works fine because it's still honestly pretty close. At the outer bounds of mid range I think you start running into some issues though. (200+m)

    Long range, as defined by the game, basically just doesn't work at all due to a combination of factors from long range fcs being bad, projectile travel speed feeling slow, and overall mobility meaning that those shots miss more than they hit.

  • NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    For PC folks: someone’s apparently made a NEXT-style maneuverability mod, if you want that AC4/For Answer feel again:

    Spoilers for mid game mission:

    Is it funny that it's not really that different from base except "missiles will basically never hit" and you have more generator energy

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  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    There's both the glancing hits and the fact that if an enemy is aware of you, long range fire will just simply rarely hit. Missiles are another matter, but they're primarily to keep pressure on until you can get back into optimal engagement range I find. If the game is going to make you get into close range to both do effective damage and actually land the majority of your shots, weapons that are built for that range naturally start to pull ahead.

    Granted, I'm not really talking about PvP here because I don't care about that at all.

    Again I think mid range is viable. I don't think long range is but I also don't think it really should be better than the close range options because those require a lot more skill to effectively pull off.
    Yeah, you get a medium build with a pair of rifles and you can absolutely sit in a range beyond where a zimmy is effective and still reliably hitting your shots and having a lot more leeway for your dodges.

  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Mid range in the game is still so close it takes a heavy tank build's boost to put you in sword kissing range. The rangebands are so compressed that even Lancer laughs at it.

    The game is very clearly Full Anime Bullshit where guns are just different types of swords and you're never meant to be more than two seconds from being capable of kicking an opponent.

  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    I'm not sure that a melee boost will consistently be able to reach you in mid-range. You're always at least close to melee boost range, but I don't think you're always actually in it. But the key thing is that if you're hanging at mid range and an enemy starts closing to melee, you've got more than enough time just evade it. It's not like you can just trivially stay out forever, but you can stay out consistently enough for the fighting style to work.

  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    Having not engaged in the PVP i have no idea how my build would stack up against an actual human. Against the game AI though they melt like butter. My understanding based on a Reddit post is that except for a few bosses, all of the enemies in the game are built using parts we have access to. So i assume that should i be able to close the gap and land my attacks, another player would also disintegrate. Probably never going to find out though.

    sig.gif Gamertag: KL Retribution
    PSN:Furlion
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