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Final Fantasy 14 thread: Dawntrail

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  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    If that diagram is accurate it does seem like there's at least a Lines On The Flooooooor mark you can use as reference, the end of the decorative corner line there
    Not really, with the drawn-on lines removed there's no exact stand-here crosshairs you can lock on to. Also keep in mind that there's a different point you need to stand on if the towers are located west/east instead, so you'd have more than one floor pattern location to memorize if the markers weren't there. In the non-Autocad strat you can sorta use floor lines to sense where you're too far out and will get clipped by the wide wide beam coming in from the other side of the room and thus know to stay closer than that, but it still takes a certain level of precision.

  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Raids should be balanced around having two melee and two ranged because that aligns with supports. As long as you can clear any fight with any combination of two melee + phys range + magic range it doesn't really matter what is doing the most damage. The only person you're ever competing against is everyone else playing the same class. Your position in your eight-person raid doesn't matter.

  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    the fastest m4 kills still use a pdps, so it must be worthwhile to use them. otherwise we'd see blm+pct

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Jars wrote: »
    the fastest m4 kills still use a pdps, so it must be worthwhile to use them. otherwise we'd see blm+pct

    There's stat bonuses for including roles. BRD's actually parsing a lot closer to melee than I remembered (at the high end).

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  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    Raids should be balanced around having two melee and two ranged because that aligns with supports. As long as you can clear any fight with any combination of two melee + phys range + magic range it doesn't really matter what is doing the most damage. The only person you're ever competing against is everyone else playing the same class. Your position in your eight-person raid doesn't matter.
    You're competing with other jobs in your role, and the competition is stiffer in some roles than others.

    Healers, tanks, and melee DPS all get two slots per raid, meaning that even if one job is way ahead due to balance issues the rest of the field still has a path to relevance. Magic and ranged DPS never get more than a single slot each, so if the playerbase considers one job to be way ahead (Pictomancer) or behind (Machinist), the effects can be a lot more pronounced. The game didn't have to be designed in such a way that the second-best melee player gets a raid slot easily and the second-best caster or ranged player gets screwed, but it is.

    Also, it just feels kind of bad emotionally being a ranged DPS and knowing that you only have a place on the team because the devs used stat and limit bonuses to force in a pity slot for you, and that you'd be cut for a quadruple-melee comp in a second if it were allowed.

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  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I can assure you as a WoW raider it feels much more bad emotionally to be cut because your class is bad.

    I just can't imagine a situation in FFXIV where someone is losing their raid spot because their job isn't the #1. If you're going for a week 1 clear then your DPS are always going to play the first-through-forth best classes no matter what arrangement that requires. If you're not then you play whatever tf you want and who cares.

  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    I mean I pf 1 and 2 each week and there are groups still hitting enrage. some people just aren't as good and that extra 10% dmg by switching from rdm to pct can matter a lot.

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited October 17
    admanb wrote: »
    I can assure you as a WoW raider it feels much more bad emotionally to be cut because your class is bad.

    I just can't imagine a situation in FFXIV where someone is losing their raid spot because their job isn't the #1. If you're going for a week 1 clear then your DPS are always going to play the first-through-forth best classes no matter what arrangement that requires. If you're not then you play whatever tf you want and who cares.

    That's not really an argument that they shouldn't buff the underperforming classes, though.

    Polaritie on
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  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    glare 4 taking the spot of pom instead of glare 3 is really annoying. I can't shove pom down on some undesirable keybind now because I'm only hitting it once per 2 minutes

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    yeah lol
    I moved it to the spot I put the movement DPS button for sage, the one that uses up the charges they generate from their shields getting used up completely

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  • SkeithSkeith Registered User regular
    edited October 19
    I don't think I've hated an end of tier fight as much as M4S. I'd rather be doing LL or BJCC prog in TEA again.

    Skeith on
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  • ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    M4S is like, half of a good fight.

    I think p1 is really, really fun, like the concept of the transition (it goes on a bit too long and/or is a bit too simple but the vibes are great), but unfortunately p2 is just kinda ass imo (great music and visuals, incredibly boring mechanics into "does this group skip/know how to do sunrise")

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  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    I kind of hate ion cannon. I use seraphism there specifically so I don't have to cast

  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    having cleared M4S using uptime sunrise I still don't get what all the fuss is about. The positioning is easy to get and I can do a sweep of the arena and see if anyone is out of position. I've yet to see anyone die by pixels; it's always because someone is on the wrong side.

  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    that's odd, before every time I used lionheart combo it was just the little papercut sounds. now there are very clearly explosions going off that weren't there before

  • SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    Jars wrote: »
    glare 4 taking the spot of pom instead of glare 3 is really annoying. I can't shove pom down on some undesirable keybind now because I'm only hitting it once per 2 minutes

    its movement flexibility fool. if it took up glare 3's spot it would have no point

  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    Aw man. I won't be able to use the 4 free days; my sub ran out slightly too late. Probably re-subbing next week then for them Halloween glams as they're VERY nice.

  • ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    God I have seen some absolutely insane takes about FRU most likely releasing on Thanksgiving week for the US

    Like I didn't think that someone saying "damn, I wish the big Ultimate raid I've been gearing up and planning for didn't realease at the same time as this major family holiday, that kinda sucks" would be so controversial, and yet FF14 twitter manages to exceed(?) my expectations all the same!

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  • NeveronNeveron HellValleySkyTree SwedenRegistered User regular
    So patch 7.1 is probably releasing November 12 given the moogle treasure trove event, and a two-week delay puts 7.11 (with FRU) on November 26. That's the day before Thanksgiving, but... well, honestly, I think missing out on the first day of Ultimate is probably less of an issue than if 7.11 releases on November 19 and people end up missing one of the final days of the race.

    Remember, TOP took seven days to clear and DSR took six. This isn't savage, where missing day 1 means a good chance of missing the entire race.

    I guess they could delay 7.11 three weeks, but I'm not sure that'd be particularly popular outside the US?

  • ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    Oh I mean there is 0 chance they delay it; it's just an unfortunate timing that I totally get the world prog types complaining about

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  • SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    i mean if your racing and miss the first days of the race it doesnt matter if you are there for the last days

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited October 20
    NA makes up the largest chunk of the player population, about 45%, so it's something that I would at least hope that they've discussed. Also it's a holiday in Japan too that takes place *around* the same time but I think it's treated as more of a labor holiday?

    Javen on
  • NeveronNeveron HellValleySkyTree SwedenRegistered User regular
    What's the chunk of the player population that actually participates in Ultimate day 1 to such a serious degree that missing that first day is problem?
    Because I reckon that's probably pretty low.

  • SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    i mean, low, but the players who care are the ones who are upset.

  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Participating in the race is already rough for Americans because we get no PTO or legal protections for the PTO we do get, so stacking it on one of our few actual holidays* is kind of insult to injury.

    *unless someone works in retail in which they might be double fucked

  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    man I did m4n today and had a healer that stopped healing and tried to hard res the other healer while high damage stack markers were out. We wiped the first time, and almost wiped a second time if not for a tank LB.

    then a dps complained about the tank lb and I wanted to tell them to shut the fuck up

  • SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    but you didn't. why do you leash your emotions? let them run wild and free....the strong will surely survive!

  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    I've yet to see anyone die by pixels; it's always because someone is on the wrong side.
    I've seen plenty of deaths because someone was too far left or right and ran their beam into someone else, or they stood too far forward and got erased by a beam coming in from their side that was correctly placed. It's not a case of players that stood 2-3 pixels off of their mark, it's players that go to their marker and then don't have a firm grasp of where exactly they're supposed to be after they reach that marker. Whether they were trained wrong or it merely slips their mind in the heat of battle after spending twelve minutes to get back there, both result in deaths just the same.

  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Yes…? I said I’ve seen people mess up uptime. What I don’t understand is how it’s (a) easier to mess up your positioning on uptime than “standard” and (b) impossible to “debug” when someone messes up uptime.

  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited October 21
    That does remind me that not everybody knows — if you upload to FFLogs the Replay feature is incredible for identifying what went wrong in a pull.

    admanb on
  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    edited October 21
    Something kinda like this, at around the 5-minute mark.
    https://youtu.be/ZlboWk--HWI?t=306
    Reaper ran to the correct marker, and ran to the correct side of the marker, but was not diligent in standing exactly on the edge of the marker, instead standing a few steps off to the side of it (I see this happening in a lot of different parties). Angle was off and Pictomancer died. And so you get players who clear after doing this and think, "What? I did was I was supposed to do. They must have been out of position over there." and queue up for Party Finder the next week not having learned of their own teamkilling ways. Sure, you can debug and analyze with videos like this or FFLogs replays and see what happened, but most players out there in PF PUGs never bother to try that.

    Without logging tools or video instant replay, it's also kinda hard to see where everyone's standing with all the lasers in the way. The corpses at least stay where they are, but the alive players (such as this reaper in the example) quickly move from their spot before the dust has cleared up.

    SabreMau on
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Somehow, in a game where raid encounters are entirely pre-determined where everything happens in the same spots in the same order, people are still very bad at knowing how they died

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited October 21
    Javen wrote: »
    Somehow, in a game where raid encounters are entirely pre-determined where everything happens in the same spots in the same order, people are still very bad at knowing how they died

    There is some RNG involved in many cases (order of attacks, or placement of patterns). In this case? They're complaining that this specific way of resolving a mechanic requires very precise positioning to avoid killing someone else. It's a case of there being more than one way to solve a mechanic and sometimes people pick a stupid one.

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  • ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    It's kinda like the E8S light rampant problem in prog where when someone fucks up you just get flashbang blinded while everything fucking explodes. Did a chain not resolve, someone bait a protean wrong, was it an orb getting soaked too soon? Better hope you have a good PoV in the VOD, cause you sure as fuck aren't going to be able to tell in the moment.

    Uptime sunrise is the similar in that if anyone fucks up then someone will die, but figuring out which giant laser was off by whatever tiny amount is hard/impossible to see in the moment.

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  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    I've done normal sunrise plenty and you have the exact same problem where someone is in the wrong spot and it kills too many people to recover

    anyway, I wish they made more glaive type weapons for drk. there's only 2 and none have particle effects yet. This one will.. in about 5 years or so

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  • ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    Is that the 93 ex weapon? Looks cool, very monster hunter

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  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    yes, that's what I meant by it will have particle effects in like 5 years. maybe

  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    Jars wrote: »
    I've done normal sunrise plenty and you have the exact same problem where someone is in the wrong spot and it kills too many people to recover
    There are basically four major categories of ways Sunrise cannons can mess up.

    1) Not running to your correct cannon
    2) Not paying attention to where the towers are and flipping the cannon in the opposite direction as it should be
    3) Standing too far left or right and causing the beam to hit other players (or, in Normal, trying to go too far left or right and contacting the deathwall)
    4) Standing too far out from the cannon and getting sideswiped by someone else's beam (assuming that the player over there isn't messing up #3)

    1 and 2 are universal, any strategy is going to have that, and any one cannon empty is probably going to cause a wipe because it's taking out tower players who are needed for the second set of cannons. 3 and 4 should be completely ameliorated by Uprise markers, but only if all eight players are actively thinking about how they need to be directly ON this specific spot of the floor and not vaguely NEAR this specific spot on the floor.

    But I can also say this for Normal strat over Uprise: if you haven't messed up 1 or 2, then it's basically guaranteed that all four tower players are going to be alive to soak the second set of cannons, because all of them are being aimed directly away from the towers, not into a small gap between towers and an other-side-of-the-room cannoneer. If someone's cannon aim is bad enough that they took out tower players as well, then you don't have enough time to rez everyone up, and even if you did they're going to die again anyway because an early laser wiped out or doubled their existing polarity debuff.

  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    speaking of dark it's kind of lame that they got new animations and it doesn't matter because they all get animation cancelled

  • USBPoetUSBPoet Stuck in the permafrost Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    I'm currently the lowest level player in my guild at level 50 and every time I hear them talk about a raid fight or duties they're signing up for i feel like im never gonna catch up... such is the plight of the late-to-the-party MMO player...

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