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Penny Arcade - Comic - Myopia

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin

Myopia!

Penny Arcade - Comic - Myopia

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

Read the full story here

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Posts

  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    My first reaction was "Really? 'Legendary games'? The only thing they've released is the Batman: Arkham series, and that's pretty much just hopping on the Assassin's creed craze and setting it in the batman universe".

    Don't get me wrong, they're good games. Really good games. But I can't say they're "legendary" or "defining visceral melee combat for generations". Studios that actually do produce legendary and genre defining games require more than one shitty release to ruin their legacy.

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  • dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    edited January 31
    I think Arkham is pretty broadly recognized as having excellent combat that has been copied quite widely (in other words, "defining"). Assassin's Creed came out at around the same time and had very similar elements, but later ACs adapted to incorporate the good stuff from Arkham, not the other way around.

    dennis on
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  • GrendusGrendus Registered User regular
    Arkham City also had an excellent movement system which popularized the grappling hook/boost/glide combo in other games. And Asylum popularized Detective Mode vision, which... while I think it was done poorly and was kind of obnoxious in the Arkham games, others have copied it well. And while the Assassins Creed games had the two button combat, Batman did a better job implementing it.

    You're right that they weren't the first, gliding, grappling, two button combat, detective mode, and all the other things the Arkham games are known for were not "pioneered" by them in any capacity. But they were the first ones to put it all together in a polished package that exemplified how they all work together to form a cohesive whole, and paired them with an excellent "Batman" story showcasing a variety of villains, with a large number of well implemented gimmick fights that emphasized each villain's uniqueness.

    I'd consider that "Legendary".

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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Arkham definitely did redefine the action-combat genre. The freeflow combat of the Arkham series has influenced a ton of other games.

    If you look at the old Assassins Creed games that came out prior to Arkham, the combat sucks. It's very fiddly and very spammy. Then Arkham came out and AC took a lot of inspiration from the Arkham games. AC3, AC4, Unity, and Syndicate all have combat that is very heavily inspired by the Arkham series.

    The Shadow of Mordor/War games basically straight up rip the Arkham combat, but with swords and bloody eviscerations.

    The Avengers flop game was inspired by Arkham combat.

    Spider-Man 1 and 2 are extremely inspired by Arkham.

    Andy JoeArteenHahnsoo1Man in the MistsAegeridennisCrimeRobotMoridin889
  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    I really love how it looks like Batman is threatening the dude in the second panel. Clearly a decoration (maybe a cardboard standup), but it still looks menacing.

    8i1dt37buh2m.png
  • v2miccav2micca Registered User regular
    edited January 31
    I almost wonder if FiendishRabbit is intentionally trolling. Arkham Asylum managed to create a game that seamlessly transitioned from stealth elements to ground level melee combat in a way that no other game has accomplishe, not even the sequels. I would argue later Arkham games overpowered Batman to the point where stealth felt far less integral to the core game experience. But yeah, it is a formula that has straight up been copied by several other developers. So, it is disheartening to see Rocksteady Studios, a developer that had previously created formulas that other studios followed, regress into cheap looter/shooter knock off territory.

    v2micca on
  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    Penny Arcade themselves said Arkham's stealth was lifted from the Splinter Cell games? And neither can be "legendary" because I've never bothered to play them.

    Checkmate, gamers

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  • AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Yeah, Arkham Asylum is 100% one of those games that defined a genre and established that form of melee combat as a thing. It was extremely well done and many games have adapted a very similar kind of combat since.

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  • dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    Anyone want to take a guess on who the guy in the comic is (if anyone in particular, which given PA's track record it probably is)? At first I thought it was (normal man) David Zaslav. But the look doesn't quite fit, so maybe Warner Bros Interactive Entertainment president David Haddad.

    bnppislzxhju.png

    I'm thinking the Rocksteady guy is co-founder Sefton Hill. He and the other co-founder left after making this game.

    t3ti815eh9jj.png

    CrimeRobotfurlion
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    edited February 1
    This is like saying that Doom didn't define FPS games for a generation because Wolfenstein 3D came out before it.
    When so many games are described as having 'Arkham-style' combat, that pretty much tells you everything you need to know about who's setting the definition.

    Arkham didn't just make the combat good, it nailed the feel of being Batman; you got to a point where you'd look at a room filled with enemies and quite sincerely say "This isn't fair, there's only 20 of them". Get hit once in the resulting fight and you'd feel like you failed.
    For games that wanted you to feel like an unstoppable one man army, it was perfect (so Sleeping Dogs, Spider-Man, Assassins Creed up until Unity, etc). For games that wanted every fight to be a life and death struggle, that's what Demon's/Dark Souls gave us (and the growing trend of games described as having 'Souls-style' combat).

    klemming on
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  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    Grendus wrote: »
    And Asylum popularized Detective Mode vision

    tk0sbgippgvc.png

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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited February 3
    it's weird too because Kill the Justice League seems like such a good fit for arkham style combat, or something kinda adjacent to it anyway; making it into a third person shooter feels like both a reductive implementation of the characters (like if I'm king shark why is my primary mode of attack just like, a minigun I carry?) and also kinda dated.

    but I guess the goal is multiplayer ongoing service and maybe there was no way to turn an arkham-esque combat game into that? I dunno man

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  • OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    edited February 5
    but I guess the goal is multiplayer ongoing service and maybe there was no way to turn an arkham-esque combat game into that? I dunno man

    C-suite execs and shareholders prefer profit to innovation unless the latter is the only way to obtain the former. Plus "just copy a profitable idea" is rife in multiple industries, even in creative ones like vidya games. The problem with the "just copy a profitable idea" approach is there isn't always an understanding of why it worked, the conditions it required to work, or possession of the necessary skillsets needed to make it work.

    I remember a time when it seemed like every few months someone was trying to make a "WoW killer" MMO and failing.

    Overkillengine on
    V1m
  • Emperor MegamanEmperor Megaman Registered User regular
    I remember a time when it seemed like every few months someone was trying to make a "WoW killer" MMO and failing.

    And too many studio trying to make major oingoing services games at the same time are eventually going to run into the same problem. If the MMORPG playerbase is busy playing WoW they don't have the time to be playing something else, especially if that something else didn't understand what interested them about WoW in the first place or tries to applies it where it doesn't work and ends up a inferior version), and they'll likely stick to the one they already know and love. There isn't a infinite numbers of players, and they don't have a infinite amount of time. There can only be so many game requiring a regular investment of time coexisting in the same environement.
    Some service will succeed, not all of them will.
    Following the trend works better for something like gritty "real is grey" action games, FPS or "Vaast opun worlds" games that players can just buy several of them and play them when they feel like it.
    Same thing happend to Toys to Life games to a extent. Of course, Activision expecting kids (or anyone else) to buy a entire collection of figurine every years the same way people buy a single new Call of Duty, Assassin Screed or Fifa, was already bound to eventually kill the trend. But other studio expecting more than one or two Toys to life Game to exist at the same time, especially as poorly executed as Disney Infinity or Lego Dimension, was doomed to kill it even faster.

  • LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    Yep, and single player has another advantage that even if the game doesn't sell well, you won't lose the players you do have 'cause of "dead servers", and you can still get the occasional new player from sales years later

    Man in the MistsEmperor Megaman
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