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Penny Arcade - Comic - Raid: Shadow Legends

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin

Raid: Shadow Legends!

Penny Arcade - Comic - Raid: Shadow Legends

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

Read the full story here

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    OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    Tycho knows what he did.

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    FireballDragonFireballDragon Registered User regular
    "A note from Tycho Brahe? Well, isn't that a coincidence? I was just thinking about him... For the last 20 years!"

    jcqf65dlwsx61.jpg?auto=webp&s=c53122ab247d62f705b5068d9f767852551382e0

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    palidine40palidine40 Registered User regular
    wtf is going on?!

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    PyrianPyrian Registered User regular
    It turns out, Tycho was Leroy Jenkins all along.

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    PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Heck, *I* still remember that Gnomeregan run from back in the day that was like ten hours.

    Turns out mega dungeons like that are hilarious when they are new and no one has any idea what they’re doing.

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    GrendusGrendus Registered User regular
    Or even when everyone does know what they're doing, and they just suck at it.

    I still remember the time we three manned one of the bosses in Naxx 10 when the rest of the group fucked up and died. We *should* have stopped, but the tank and healer were from our higher end raid group so we made the rest of the group watch as the *single DPS* who survived the Safety Dance (I forget the boss name, the one where you had to move between "safe zones" back and forth in a wave) slowly killed the boss.

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    Armored ChocoboArmored Chocobo Registered User regular
    The Gameplay is fun, best an MMO can offer.

    Too bad you're required to read Yoshi P's fanfiction to play it.

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    DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    What a weird way to describe it.

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    LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    Time to try this 14-year-old game

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    OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    The Gameplay is fun, best an MMO can offer.

    Too bad you're required to read Yoshi P's fanfiction to play it.

    That and they were able to balance that gameplay so tightly by removing pretty much all player agency in building characters outside of getting geared and whether or not the player remembered to do their class quests.

    It's a very nice themepark, don't get me wrong. But it's nearly ALL themepark. You cannot leave the tourbus. Do not feed the catgirls, especially the ones at Limsa.

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    darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    The Gameplay is fun, best an MMO can offer.

    Too bad you're required to read Yoshi P's fanfiction to play it.

    That and they were able to balance that gameplay so tightly by removing pretty much all player agency in building characters outside of getting geared and whether or not the player remembered to do their class quests.

    It's a very nice themepark, don't get me wrong. But it's nearly ALL themepark. You cannot leave the tourbus. Do not feed the catgirls, especially the ones at Limsa.

    Sounds like every final fantasy ever, its never not been themepark.

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    dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    darkmayo wrote: »
    The Gameplay is fun, best an MMO can offer.

    Too bad you're required to read Yoshi P's fanfiction to play it.

    That and they were able to balance that gameplay so tightly by removing pretty much all player agency in building characters outside of getting geared and whether or not the player remembered to do their class quests.

    It's a very nice themepark, don't get me wrong. But it's nearly ALL themepark. You cannot leave the tourbus. Do not feed the catgirls, especially the ones at Limsa.

    Sounds like every final fantasy ever, its never not been themepark.

    You don't remember choosing to not save Aerith?

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited April 5
    I remember spending two days savescumming trying to find a way to save Leo and after giving up just not going back for Shadow because obviously the game isn't going to let me save anyone. It was like six years later that I learned Shadow could even be saved.

    FF6 did break the theme park, both literally as in the bad guy won and broke everything but also figuratively in that once you get the new airship in the second half you're just dumped like a naked baby in the woods with four characters and a dungeon requiring twelve.

    Hevach on
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    OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    edited April 5
    darkmayo wrote: »
    The Gameplay is fun, best an MMO can offer.

    Too bad you're required to read Yoshi P's fanfiction to play it.

    That and they were able to balance that gameplay so tightly by removing pretty much all player agency in building characters outside of getting geared and whether or not the player remembered to do their class quests.

    It's a very nice themepark, don't get me wrong. But it's nearly ALL themepark. You cannot leave the tourbus. Do not feed the catgirls, especially the ones at Limsa.

    Sounds like every final fantasy ever, its never not been themepark.

    I remember a friend of mine beating FF1 with an all monk team. Plenty of the later games in the series at least had some semblance of a job system that allowed for flexibility in building characters and team compositions, so the storylines being on rails wasn't nearly so onerous, since you at least got a decent amount of choice in *how* you beat it. However in FFXIV two dragoons of the same level are going to be nearly functionally identical since the gearing is near completely class-locked in and there is no subclass system either. Which in my opinion contributes to the complaints about the pre-Heavensward content being a slog since there isn't as much to distract from the on rails writing.


    All in all, it's still a decent game, and I don't regret the time and money spent on it, but there are some serious cracks in the foundation that time has not helped.

    Overkillengine on
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    hibryd7hibryd7 Registered User regular
    I apparently have 900 cumulative hours logged onto XIV after quitting and re-upping a half-dozen times over the past decade, which is weird cuz I feel like I was only ever casually involved in XIV. I had over a literal year of active playtime on XI when I quit.

    OKEngine summed XIV up pretty well; its very pretty, but it's basically just a guided tour. Outside of your role as tank/DPS/healer, the job system is fairly arbitrary, and your gear is basically pass/fail. All the other FF games I've played (VII, IX, XI, XII) had a hundred novel ways to pair stuff together and had worlds populated with enemies that encouraged you to thoroughly explore those intricacies.

    That said, I'd happily return to XIV again some day; while the gameplay itself isn't compelling, overall its a fun experience and a neat place to explore, and Shadowbringers is apparently the greatest RPG story since sliced bread (I only got through Stormblood). But for old-school MMO players it won't give you that feeling of risk or conquest and you'll have to keep chasing those dragons (quite literally, in our chase).

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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Where FFXIV excelled was the choreography of boss fights. It felt really good to be doing my bard rotation while dancing among the aoe tells.

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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    I love that Tycho gave a shout out to Jesse Cox and linked that great Acq Inc Star Wars live game they did.

    Also, Final Fantasy is great and this is definitely one of the most elaborate FF games I've ever played. I'm not sure why y'all are saying there's not enough character choices to make, when there's so many glamors to choose from.

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    Emperor MegamanEmperor Megaman Registered User regular
    Hey, FF2 let you affect how you characters stats evolved, but did it in the worst way.

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    palidine40palidine40 Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    Time to try this 14-year-old game

    Uhhhhhh, anyone gonna tell him? XD XD XD XD XD XD

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    LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    palidine40 wrote: »
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    Time to try this 14-year-old game

    Uhhhhhh, anyone gonna tell him? XD XD XD XD XD XD

    Tell me what? That it was remade in 2013 and it's really only 11 years old?

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    OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    Where FFXIV excelled was the choreography of boss fights. It felt really good to be doing my bard rotation while dancing among the aoe tells.

    Yeah honestly if they made a Monster Hunter style game from the IP, they'd probably pull it off fairly well. Just need to ensure you could grab an AI hireling if a player of needed role isn't available and they'd be golden.

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    DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    Aldo wrote: »
    I love that Tycho gave a shout out to Jesse Cox and linked that great Acq Inc Star Wars live game they did.

    Also, Final Fantasy is great and this is definitely one of the most elaborate FF games I've ever played. I'm not sure why y'all are saying there's not enough character choices to make, when there's so many glamors to choose from.

    What's the gameplay effect of a glamor though? The complaint many people, including myself, have with the game isn't about character appearance (though I have my issues there too), it's that there is no freedom in building your character mechanically. I played a Black Mage, and I couldn't choose to be a fire specialist, or hybrid, or a slow caster of huge nukes, or whatever. I had to play the Black Mage exactly the way it was designed to be played, with a clearly defined and inflexible rotation, the way ALL Black Mages work at that specific level, until I reach level X and get a new spell, and now all Black Mages play this way now.

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    DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    Counterpoint: millions of new players didn't get yelled at for having suboptimal builds

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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Djiem wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    I love that Tycho gave a shout out to Jesse Cox and linked that great Acq Inc Star Wars live game they did.

    Also, Final Fantasy is great and this is definitely one of the most elaborate FF games I've ever played. I'm not sure why y'all are saying there's not enough character choices to make, when there's so many glamors to choose from.

    What's the gameplay effect of a glamor though? The complaint many people, including myself, have with the game isn't about character appearance (though I have my issues there too), it's that there is no freedom in building your character mechanically. I played a Black Mage, and I couldn't choose to be a fire specialist, or hybrid, or a slow caster of huge nukes, or whatever. I had to play the Black Mage exactly the way it was designed to be played, with a clearly defined and inflexible rotation, the way ALL Black Mages work at that specific level, until I reach level X and get a new spell, and now all Black Mages play this way now.

    I get where you're coming from, but also, build systems are delicate bits of game design. World of Warcraft alone is a very strong argument on just how those systems can break, and break horribly. There was only ever the illusion of choice, because everyone went to elitist jerks, and if you didnt... *painful whistle*. FF14's approach is not for everyone, but it has a huge variety of strengths for both the player AND the developer (for one, it's a lot easier to balance a game and refine encounters when you can account for the optimized builds just like that).

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