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[NBA] there’s certainly some basketball being played

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    This Denver-GSW game is a much better than Cavs-Wizards, lol. Wiz are so unwatchable I can tolerate this piss court.

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  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    Andrew Wiggins is incapable of making a layup

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    TelMarine wrote: »
    Andrew Wiggins is incapable of making a layup

    And that slip at the end of the game. Just brutal.

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  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    Andrew Wiggins shoes betray him and turns it over

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  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    Another blown game. Getting old now.

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  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    Erik Spoelstra gotta be pissed watching the end of that Warriors/Nuggets game

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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    So the West winds up with #1, #2, #3, and #7 in the standings in the cup (thanks Warriors for dragging down the strength of schedule), aand East winds up with #3, #4, #5, #6 -- the "top heavy conference" of course missing the "top heavy" on their side.

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Cleveland fucked everything up in the Cup standings by not taking the Hawks seriously, but I would rather be number one in the regular season standings than this silly tournament I guess.

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  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    Cleveland fucked everything up in the Cup standings by not taking the Hawks seriously, but I would rather be number one in the regular season standings than this silly tournament I guess.

    it feels like the NBA is trying too hard to make people care, we just wanna see competitive games and less load management.

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    edited December 4
    Everyone knows what the real solution is there: less games. The league hasn't considered it because it would cut into ticket and local TV revenue and I don't know how low ratings need to be before it changes the calculus.

    I said from the beginning that the in-season tournament being made up mostly of games already on the schedule was trying to make something out of nothing.

    Butters on
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  • CarpyCarpy Registered User regular
    The players aren't going to cut games either as that's money directly out of their pocket

  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Players get game checks, but they are paid according to the revenue sharing mandated by the CBA. Only way it cuts their pay is if overall revenue goes down, but falling ratings can drag down revenue too.

    The sad thing is with all the discussion on expansion the most recent years, this season is making it look much more difficult. Can the NBA really justify more teams in the current climate?

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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    Okay so I'm all for being allowed to say you overlooked a bad team once, but you lose me when you say the Cavs overlooked the Hawks both times when they literally played two games in a row, the second following a loss that certainly should wake them up and motivate them.

    Just say that to say I think the level of play overall has been higher in the Cup pool games. It's not a magic bullet and I think there's still really not much motivation for fans to care about who wins the NBA cup, which is a big ingredient for it to be a full on success, but I do think it has lead to overall a higher level of play for a group of games happening at a time of the season when there's a bit less motivation in general.

    And if you hate it it's generally very unobtrusive (outside of hideous yellow courts in Golden State and LA) and still matters for the regular season, which I think was a good idea.

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Having watched both games with Atlanta and both with Boston, I can promise you Cleveland was far more motivated against the Celtics. I won't say Young doesn't present a challenging matchup for the Cavs because there's strong evidence that he does, but Cleveland fought WAY harder in the games against Boston which is unequivocally the superior team.

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  • CarpyCarpy Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    Players get game checks, but they are paid according to the revenue sharing mandated by the CBA. Only way it cuts their pay is if overall revenue goes down, but falling ratings can drag down revenue too.

    The sad thing is with all the discussion on expansion the most recent years, this season is making it look much more difficult. Can the NBA really justify more teams in the current climate?

    If the league doesn't want to cut games because it will cut TV and ticket revenue then the players also won't want to cut games because reducing that will reduce the total pot that their share comes from.

  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    Having watched both games with Atlanta and both with Boston, I can promise you Cleveland was far more motivated against the Celtics. I won't say Young doesn't present a challenging matchup for the Cavs because there's strong evidence that he does, but Cleveland fought WAY harder in the games against Boston which is unequivocally the superior team.

    I think there's space between "not taking a team seriously" and "playing like it's a playoff game because you want to be recognized as the #1 team in the East against the defending champions". The first matchup with the Hawks is probably the former, but the second wasn't despite also not being the latter. Hawks are a weird team that play up and down to their competition too.

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  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Okay so I'm all for being allowed to say you overlooked a bad team once, but you lose me when you say the Cavs overlooked the Hawks both times when they literally played two games in a row, the second following a loss that certainly should wake them up and motivate them.

    Just say that to say I think the level of play overall has been higher in the Cup pool games. It's not a magic bullet and I think there's still really not much motivation for fans to care about who wins the NBA cup, which is a big ingredient for it to be a full on success, but I do think it has lead to overall a higher level of play for a group of games happening at a time of the season when there's a bit less motivation in general.

    And if you hate it it's generally very unobtrusive (outside of hideous yellow courts in Golden State and LA) and still matters for the regular season, which I think was a good idea.

    I'm wondering has the extra money been the main reason? Or just the competitive fire...I would hope the latter. Fuck the cup etc., but just going out there to WIN and say you won, I would love to be the main factor. Most of these players (sans Ben Simmons I guess) are pretty competitive and wanna win...hence wanting to win a championship. It's not a good look when the image of the league is getting multi-millionaires to care is hard.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    TelMarine wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Okay so I'm all for being allowed to say you overlooked a bad team once, but you lose me when you say the Cavs overlooked the Hawks both times when they literally played two games in a row, the second following a loss that certainly should wake them up and motivate them.

    Just say that to say I think the level of play overall has been higher in the Cup pool games. It's not a magic bullet and I think there's still really not much motivation for fans to care about who wins the NBA cup, which is a big ingredient for it to be a full on success, but I do think it has lead to overall a higher level of play for a group of games happening at a time of the season when there's a bit less motivation in general.

    And if you hate it it's generally very unobtrusive (outside of hideous yellow courts in Golden State and LA) and still matters for the regular season, which I think was a good idea.

    I'm wondering has the extra money been the main reason? Or just the competitive fire...I would hope the latter. Fuck the cup etc., but just going out there to WIN and say you won, I would love to be the main factor. Most of these players (sans Ben Simmons I guess) are pretty competitive and wanna win...hence wanting to win a championship. It's not a good look when the image of the league is getting multi-millionaires to care is hard.

    I recall hearing somewhere that there are a lot of players who just show up to do the work and get paid, and that there's a pretty stark divide between the "hoopers" who are competitive and want to play all the time and want to win all the time, and the guys who treat it like a 9-to-5.

    Honestly, I believe it. Everyone has different genetic gifts and upbringing. For every player that made it, there are literally thousands who put in just as much, if not more, work and didn't. It's also why you see so many players get drafted or get on the cusp of the bench/rotation and just flame out because they either overvalue their own contribution or never had to build in the work habits to step up beyond their natural gifts. And on the other end you get the Zions and the Ben Simonnses who have all the talent in the world but none of the drive.

    I think if you looked at any given NBA roster you'd see as many as half of the players who are there largely just to collect a paycheck. It's not like they half-ass things, but they also maintain a healthy work-life balance/perspective and don't freak out over wins and losses.

  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    TelMarine wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Okay so I'm all for being allowed to say you overlooked a bad team once, but you lose me when you say the Cavs overlooked the Hawks both times when they literally played two games in a row, the second following a loss that certainly should wake them up and motivate them.

    Just say that to say I think the level of play overall has been higher in the Cup pool games. It's not a magic bullet and I think there's still really not much motivation for fans to care about who wins the NBA cup, which is a big ingredient for it to be a full on success, but I do think it has lead to overall a higher level of play for a group of games happening at a time of the season when there's a bit less motivation in general.

    And if you hate it it's generally very unobtrusive (outside of hideous yellow courts in Golden State and LA) and still matters for the regular season, which I think was a good idea.

    I'm wondering has the extra money been the main reason? Or just the competitive fire...I would hope the latter. Fuck the cup etc., but just going out there to WIN and say you won, I would love to be the main factor. Most of these players (sans Ben Simmons I guess) are pretty competitive and wanna win...hence wanting to win a championship. It's not a good look when the image of the league is getting multi-millionaires to care is hard.

    I recall hearing somewhere that there are a lot of players who just show up to do the work and get paid, and that there's a pretty stark divide between the "hoopers" who are competitive and want to play all the time and want to win all the time, and the guys who treat it like a 9-to-5.

    Honestly, I believe it. Everyone has different genetic gifts and upbringing. For every player that made it, there are literally thousands who put in just as much, if not more, work and didn't. It's also why you see so many players get drafted or get on the cusp of the bench/rotation and just flame out because they either overvalue their own contribution or never had to build in the work habits to step up beyond their natural gifts. And on the other end you get the Zions and the Ben Simonnses who have all the talent in the world but none of the drive.

    I think if you looked at any given NBA roster you'd see as many as half of the players who are there largely just to collect a paycheck. It's not like they half-ass things, but they also maintain a healthy work-life balance/perspective and don't freak out over wins and losses.

    Definitely seen the "I dominated at every level until the NBA" type guys (good example for me is Anthony Randolph). Treating it like a 9 to 5 though? That seems weird to me...to get to the highest league for a sport usually requires an insane amount of time and preparation even if you got athleticism and good genetics (I understand there are some anomalies, like say an Embiid who started playing very late comparatively). I'm sure they exist, some people are good at things they don't like for example, but seems weird to treat playing professionally as a 9 to 5 because that seems like a recipe to quickly exit. Heard it many times from former players reflecting after the fact. Maybe I am thinking too literal, it is indeed a job, that is for sure.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Well, consider the Ant Edwards example, where he likely could've had a long career in the NBA regardless, but picked up his work ethic after feedback from the Warriors.

    Maybe it's a matter of semantics and perspective, too. I've had jobs where the hours were weird and the days were long for particular seasons, including travel, but at the end of the day when I clocked out I was clocked out. It doesn't mean I didn't work hard or that I didn't put in full effort - just that my mental well-being and the rest of my life wasn't tied to the work itself. I can definitely see guys doing that kind of thing. A migrant worker likely puts in more mental and physical effort into their job than the vast majority of people, including NBA players, but that doesn't mean that NBA players as a whole are "lazy", just that they do less on relative and comparative terms.

    Hell, Shaq was notorious for "playing into shape" when the season started. I'm sure there are guys all along the talent spectrum who do similarly, and the end result is that they are a rotation guy instead of a Hall-of-Famer.

  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    until they reduce the number of games or reduce the number of playoff slots there's no chance you're going to fix the problems with load management. teams don't give a fuck about the regular season and back to backs and 3 games 4 nights happens all the time and is just a bunch of scheduled losses, so why bother.

    you can put whatever bullshit label on regular season games you want with the cup or whatever but teams aren't going to take that shit serious until it helps them materially. especially when you're putting nba cup games on the second night of back to backs and shit, it's just comical how inept the nba is.

    but instead the nba will just continue to do nothing as the viewers slowly leak out of the league.

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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    Lakers getting obliterated by the Heat despite LeBron actually having a solid game.

    I'm starting to think he and Knecht have some sort of "Space Jam Power Storing Basketball" arrangement where they draw from a shared power pool, because he had probably his worst game in the NBA so far.

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  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    sixers fucked by the refs again, a day that ends in y.

    so fucking done with this league

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Thought I'd tune in to Hawks-Bucks game and not only have the officials ruined the flow of the game, but the stream has turned to absolute shit. League pass stream quality has been abysmal this season and if it's like this another month or so I might cancel it and try Fubo or something else. Long stretches of stream quality that feels like I'm using RealPlayer in the late 90s.

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  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Lakers getting obliterated by the Heat despite LeBron actually having a solid game.

    I'm starting to think he and Knecht have some sort of "Space Jam Power Storing Basketball" arrangement where they draw from a shared power pool, because he had probably his worst game in the NBA so far.

    wow, 40 point drubbing by the Heat. Lakers looking quite cooked.

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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    Yeah despite saying "LeBron had a good game", I have to correct myself that it was really just "his box score looked better".

    Because the bigger problem, beyond his 8 game really bad box score/shooting slump, is he has completely given up on defense. Obviously the dude is old AF and it's kind of understandable....but it's very much a thing.

    I'm going to just steal this straight from r/nba because it's a pretty shocking stat -- LeBron has the 13th worst +/- in the league this season, and 9 of the people below him are on the Wizards and Pelicans.

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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    Also lameeee the Warriors are fully ducking the Rockets tonight by resting Steph and Draymond.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Central OhioRegistered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    Thought I'd tune in to Hawks-Bucks game and not only have the officials ruined the flow of the game, but the stream has turned to absolute shit. League pass stream quality has been abysmal this season and if it's like this another month or so I might cancel it and try Fubo or something else. Long stretches of stream quality that feels like I'm using RealPlayer in the late 90s.

    Mark Cuban strikes again

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  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Also lameeee the Warriors are fully ducking the Rockets tonight by resting Steph and Draymond.

    Wiggins questionable too. Kuminga, if you ever wanted to take 20+ shots, here's your chance...

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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited December 5
    Yessss my boss won a charity auction for owner's box seats for the Thunder vs. Cavs game on January 16th, and is giving me two for super cheap! @Butters sorry but I need you guys to lose that one.

    Fiatil on
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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Tell you what, @Fiatil if you give me the other ticket I'll come with you and leave behind my lucky Ivy League Cavs sweater to help even the odds!

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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    Bradley Beal is not able to save the Suns from their streak of "being real bad at basketball without KD", as they drop a game 124-125 to the Pelicans with Devin Booker awkwardly failing to get a last second shot off. Pels get their first win in 10 games; the player #2 on burbo's list of "most betrayed in order to become a Warriors/Steph fan", CJ McCollum, had a solid game.

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    43-16 bench point disparity as the Cavs take total control of the second half against the Nuggets. I'm with Barkley on what he said during their last game, Denver has to figure out something to add some offense as they are wasting an incredible season from Jokic so far. They basically ran themselves off the floor pushing the pace against a much deeper Cleveland team that has more legs to spread the load around.

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  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    Buddy Hield has cooled off quite a bit since the hot start. Warriors desperately need his scoring.

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  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    the "bro escaped the cursed franchise that is the sixers" buff wearing off sadly

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  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    Andrew Wiggins has oil all over his hands. Constantly losing the ball.

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  • TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    15 straight wins over the Rockets and MUCH NEEDED. What did I say: Kuminga 13/22 for 33. Finally had some execution in the 4th.

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    TelMarine wrote: »
    Andrew Wiggins has oil all over his hands. Constantly losing the ball.

    As much as Kerr had a right to be mad about the end of the Denver game, they lost it when Wiggins slipped in the paint almost entirely untouched and lost the ball.

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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    I'm actually pretty cool with the Warriors win! I've never been a Rockets guy -- there are some simmering tensions between our fanbases -- and it's cool to see a plucky scrappy team fighting for the play-ins take out one of the higher seeded western conference teams to help the Thunder out.

    I guess "ducking the Rockets" was actually "benching the olds to allow for True Team Basketball". The only issue with the 12 man rotation was that it wasn't deep enough into the bench.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Central OhioRegistered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    43-16 bench point disparity as the Cavs take total control of the second half against the Nuggets. I'm with Barkley on what he said during their last game, Denver has to figure out something to add some offense as they are wasting an incredible season from Jokic so far. They basically ran themselves off the floor pushing the pace against a much deeper Cleveland team that has more legs to spread the load around.

    I think, aside from Boston’s dark magic, the top-heavy roster construction approach is getting exposed. Teams are finding much more success rolling 10+ dudes out for 10+ minutes a game and keeping the pedal mashed to the floor on ball movement, transition (make a 3 or run after the team going the other way on a long rebound), and very aggressive close-out defense

    We’ll see if teams stick to this in the playoffs where half-court tactics to hunt matchups have been key in recent years

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