Options

On technical difficulties, mod coverage and other things:

189101113

Posts

  • Options
    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    I primarily lurk, but man, there is a whole lot of "you should leave if you don't like it here, but let me explain why I'm staying" going on in here.

    Maybe the solution is to make EVERYONE a mod, or at the very least, hand out special badges with sparkles or something.

    I believe I have been very clear about what I will immediately do the moment a mod badge is put into my hand.

    You don't need to be Christopher Walken in The Dead Zone to see this one coming.

    I WILL DESTROY THAT PLACE IN AN INSTANT

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
  • Options
    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    .
    Cambiata wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    I don't particularly care about Jeffe's status or lack of status, but I also understand the concern among some users because, if we're going to talk about mod abuse, splitting the AI discourse thread, a thread Jeffe was both actively participating in and moderating in, solely to have a justification to thread kick people who disagreed with him in the de facto pro AI thread was an absurdly petty thing to do and (personally) immediately broke all trust that he should have any authority over the forums, despite never being involved with him negatively beforehand.

    The thing that irks me about some of the people complaining that "Jeffe still has power!" is that they're acting like they, themselves, do not have power here. I've seen plenty, PLENTY of the people complaining use the power of words to utterly demolish someone, to drive them away and make them never post in a particular thread again.

    And look, I know the answer to that is going to be, "well if that happened they deserved it!" but I think ya'll saying that are too close to the subject to see how often that power is used to simply shut people up when they've said nothing wrong.

    Here's an example from when things were first starting to go wrong, that I noticed, probably away back in 2017 or so: I used to regularly visit the Queer thread in SE. Once, someone posted a story of their deep sadness at having family reject them completely for their queerness. One of the things I had read prior to seeing this post is that if you're trying to comfort someone in grief, the very worst thing you can say is, "I know exactly how you feel", because even if you've had the same experience, you really can't know how another person feels, and it just makes that person feel isolated and even sadder. What I said was, "I'm so sorry. I can't possibly know what you're going through." This statement was immediately jumped on as me being too privileged for not trying to put myself in someone else's shoes, that it was easy for me to say I couldn't know what another person is feeling because I probably had a family that accepts me for my sexuality so I'll never understand that pain. To which i had to explain that my bisexuality is not something I can ever express to my parents or most of my family, because they would reject me for it, and that I also had an authoritarian upbringing and other issues in my family - that I didn't have this perfect family like the angry person was supposing.

    As a result of this and other strange and uncomfortable posts in that thread, I gradually stopped posting in the Queer thread and I haven't been there in years. So even though I spend 99% of my time on the forums in SE++, when people call it "the most welcoming place!" I give that some serious side-eye.

    Yeah, we need more mods and yea, Geebs could be doing things better. But if you can't look at the culture of SE++ as part of the problem along side DnD, then proper moderation is only going to make you angrier, because you're actually going to lose some of the power you've been flexing all this time, the power to shut up any person you want just because you want to.

    Cambiata while I understand you were trying to help and had an admirable intent in your heart, I am not sure how to gently explain that, from the situation you have described, you effectively walked into a situation and did the exact opposite thing that the members, and from what it sounds like this particular distressed poster, of that community subgroup needed: to have someone extend a sense of understanding and share in that pain with them to distribute the burden and in so doing make the loss hurt less in the sharing and the forging of community bonds.

    Yes, it is true that in some cases, telling a person that you know exactly how they feel can make them feel more isolated, can backfire. But this is not always the case and in many instances people, especially those ostracized and feeling as though they are completely on the outside of any social group, do need to hear from someone, even a stranger, that they know that pain, that, effectively, they are not as alone as the pain makes them feel.

    We’re talking someone who has been abandoned by their family for being who they are; they feel alone, and they needed to feel not alone.

    You, I expect, did not intend to hurt them, but you do see how in that moment what you said could be, and from what you’ve described seemed to be, hurtful, right?

    Actually, it wasn't the sad poster in question who jumped on me. It was an unrelated third party. IIRC, It was Metalbourne, who I want to clarify that I absolutely loved and was sad/still am sad when she got banned from here. But sometimes Metalbourne would jump on people for undefined reasons, and this was my day to be jumped on. She backed down after I explained but... was it really in any way assisting the sad person for her to rip me a new one? Or was she just expressing her own rage at this horrible world we live in, and I just happened to be the nearest easy target?

    Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
    On my sleeve, let the runway start
  • Options
    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    I primarily lurk, but man, there is a whole lot of "you should leave if you don't like it here, but let me explain why I'm staying" going on in here.

    Maybe the solution is to make EVERYONE a mod, or at the very least, hand out special badges with sparkles or something.

    I believe I have been very clear about what I will immediately do the moment a mod badge is put into my hand.

    You don't need to be Christopher Walken in The Dead Zone to see this one coming.

    I WILL DESTROY THAT PLACE IN AN INSTANT

    I will accept my pillorying as just for what I am about to say:
    I preferred Anthony Michael Hall’s version.

  • Options
    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    Zonugal wrote: »
    I primarily lurk, but man, there is a whole lot of "you should leave if you don't like it here, but let me explain why I'm staying" going on in here.

    Maybe the solution is to make EVERYONE a mod, or at the very least, hand out special badges with sparkles or something.

    I believe I have been very clear about what I will immediately do the moment a mod badge is put into my hand.

    You don't need to be Christopher Walken in The Dead Zone to see this one coming.

    I WILL DESTROY THAT PLACE IN AN INSTANT

    I will accept my pillorying as just for what I am about to say:
    I preferred Anthony Michael Hall’s version.

    Cancelled

  • Options
    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    I cannot express the degree to which "7 years ago, someone was mean to me, and I'm here to relitigate it as an example of how bad those dirty SE++ers are" is an incredible encapsulation of the problems the forums face.

    Dawg, are you seriously, seriously trying to say that all the mod actions people are mad about happened within the last year, and not like, back in 2016? Or are you just taking this attitude with me because you want to be an abusive dick for no particular reason right now?

    Seriously, who pissed in your cheerios, man? Go smoke a blunt.

    Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
    On my sleeve, let the runway start
  • Options
    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    Zonugal wrote: »
    I primarily lurk, but man, there is a whole lot of "you should leave if you don't like it here, but let me explain why I'm staying" going on in here.

    Maybe the solution is to make EVERYONE a mod, or at the very least, hand out special badges with sparkles or something.

    I believe I have been very clear about what I will immediately do the moment a mod badge is put into my hand.

    You don't need to be Christopher Walken in The Dead Zone to see this one coming.

    I WILL DESTROY THAT PLACE IN AN INSTANT

    I will accept my pillorying as just for what I am about to say:
    I preferred Anthony Michael Hall’s version.

    Cancelled

    dv4lfnfdepcc.jpeg

  • Options
    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Cambiata, please, please take a 15 minute break and take a breath.

    I ate an engineer
  • Options
    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    Cambiata your continued posting here is a form of self harm. You need to stop.

    I think this might be the most sexist and ablest thing that has been said to me on the forums. And I used to get in long drawn-out arguments with Frankiedarling.

    Good... good job?

    Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
    On my sleeve, let the runway start
  • Options
    ZekZek Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    Cambiata your continued posting here is a form of self harm. You need to stop.

    Seems like you're literally proving their point, rudely shutting down someone who's trying to post in good faith because you feel attacked by what they're saying. I'm seeing a trend in this thread of people who complain about mods being rude to them are themselves being equally rude to others.

  • Options
    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    Your go to example for the problems with SE++ was Metalbourne getting mad at you, perhaps one of the most frequently reprimanded and banned users of the forum, permabanned seven years ago. You have no clue what you're talking about, you're just obsessed with validating your persecution complex.

    liEt3nH.png
  • Options
    MagellMagell Detroit Machine Guns Fort MyersRegistered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    .
    Cambiata wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    I don't particularly care about Jeffe's status or lack of status, but I also understand the concern among some users because, if we're going to talk about mod abuse, splitting the AI discourse thread, a thread Jeffe was both actively participating in and moderating in, solely to have a justification to thread kick people who disagreed with him in the de facto pro AI thread was an absurdly petty thing to do and (personally) immediately broke all trust that he should have any authority over the forums, despite never being involved with him negatively beforehand.

    The thing that irks me about some of the people complaining that "Jeffe still has power!" is that they're acting like they, themselves, do not have power here. I've seen plenty, PLENTY of the people complaining use the power of words to utterly demolish someone, to drive them away and make them never post in a particular thread again.

    And look, I know the answer to that is going to be, "well if that happened they deserved it!" but I think ya'll saying that are too close to the subject to see how often that power is used to simply shut people up when they've said nothing wrong.

    Here's an example from when things were first starting to go wrong, that I noticed, probably away back in 2017 or so: I used to regularly visit the Queer thread in SE. Once, someone posted a story of their deep sadness at having family reject them completely for their queerness. One of the things I had read prior to seeing this post is that if you're trying to comfort someone in grief, the very worst thing you can say is, "I know exactly how you feel", because even if you've had the same experience, you really can't know how another person feels, and it just makes that person feel isolated and even sadder. What I said was, "I'm so sorry. I can't possibly know what you're going through." This statement was immediately jumped on as me being too privileged for not trying to put myself in someone else's shoes, that it was easy for me to say I couldn't know what another person is feeling because I probably had a family that accepts me for my sexuality so I'll never understand that pain. To which i had to explain that my bisexuality is not something I can ever express to my parents or most of my family, because they would reject me for it, and that I also had an authoritarian upbringing and other issues in my family - that I didn't have this perfect family like the angry person was supposing.

    As a result of this and other strange and uncomfortable posts in that thread, I gradually stopped posting in the Queer thread and I haven't been there in years. So even though I spend 99% of my time on the forums in SE++, when people call it "the most welcoming place!" I give that some serious side-eye.

    Yeah, we need more mods and yea, Geebs could be doing things better. But if you can't look at the culture of SE++ as part of the problem along side DnD, then proper moderation is only going to make you angrier, because you're actually going to lose some of the power you've been flexing all this time, the power to shut up any person you want just because you want to.

    Cambiata while I understand you were trying to help and had an admirable intent in your heart, I am not sure how to gently explain that, from the situation you have described, you effectively walked into a situation and did the exact opposite thing that the members, and from what it sounds like this particular distressed poster, of that community subgroup needed: to have someone extend a sense of understanding and share in that pain with them to distribute the burden and in so doing make the loss hurt less in the sharing and the forging of community bonds.

    Yes, it is true that in some cases, telling a person that you know exactly how they feel can make them feel more isolated, can backfire. But this is not always the case and in many instances people, especially those ostracized and feeling as though they are completely on the outside of any social group, do need to hear from someone, even a stranger, that they know that pain, that, effectively, they are not as alone as the pain makes them feel.

    We’re talking someone who has been abandoned by their family for being who they are; they feel alone, and they needed to feel not alone.

    You, I expect, did not intend to hurt them, but you do see how in that moment what you said could be, and from what you’ve described seemed to be, hurtful, right?

    Actually, it wasn't the sad poster in question who jumped on me. It was an unrelated third party. IIRC, It was Metalbourne, who I want to clarify that I absolutely loved and was sad/still am sad when she got banned from here. But sometimes Metalbourne would jump on people for undefined reasons, and this was my day to be jumped on. She backed down after I explained but... was it really in any way assisting the sad person for her to rip me a new one? Or was she just expressing her own rage at this horrible world we live in, and I just happened to be the nearest easy target?

    She was expressing her rage, but I mean Metal was infracted and temp banned a lot before getting perma banned so I don't know if complaining about somebody who got kicked out for being a jerk is that productive.

  • Options
    JokermanJokerman Everything EverywhereRegistered User regular
    Your go to example for the problems with SE++ was Metalbourne getting mad at you, perhaps one of the most frequently reprimanded and banned users of the forum, permabanned seven years ago. You have no clue what you're talking about, you're just obsessed with validating your persecution complex.

    Why are you engaging with the main character of the thread? How does this help solve any of the problems here?

  • Options
    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Cambiata your continued posting here is a form of self harm. You need to stop.

    I think this might be the most sexist and ablest thing that has been said to me on the forums. And I used to get in long drawn-out arguments with Frankiedarling.

    Good... good job?

    You just said the same thing to Gnome, with worse manners

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • Options
    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    There are people not-so-indirectly telling Cambiata that they wish she would shut up and fuck off, which is certainly doing wonders to combat the argument she is making that people jump down her throat.

    None of what she has posted appears to be particularly frantic, particularly in the context of this very thread, which is chock-a-block with hyperbolically hostile rhetoric and freshly unearthed (as well as never-buried) hatchets being thrown with reckless abandon.

    You like for your personal perspective and experience to be listened to and made to feel valid. And I doubt many here would take it kindly if Lanz had received that kind of response to an earnest post with her own views. I know I wouldn’t be happy about it.

  • Options
    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Cambiata, I'm going to attempt to be sensitive in my approach here, but it seems that when we as a community try to have these frank discussions of systematic issues you do seem determined to pull the conversation to a personal incident involving you and another forumer (largely those not current present in the community anymore)?

    And I'm not trying to minimize the damage done to you but it might serve you well to recognize that you are developing a pattern of transforming yourself into the main character of these very community-focused threads, and that is beginning to upset the community at large.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
  • Options
    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Your go to example for the problems with SE++ was Metalbourne getting mad at you, perhaps one of the most frequently reprimanded and banned users of the forum, permabanned seven years ago. You have no clue what you're talking about, you're just obsessed with validating your persecution complex.

    You are so, so, SO close to getting it.

    Yeah, Metalbourne had a problem getting mad at people and flying off the handle, and she got banned for that. Because Tube told her to toe the line and figure her shit out or she was gone. And she didn't listen, and so she was banned.

    There are a lot of people on the forums right now with Metalbourne levels of anger - and let me say that just like Metalbourne, their anger is just and righteous. But also just like Metalbourne, they are taking that anger out on the people who just happen to be around at the moment. Those people are in both SE++ and DnD, and they are generally the people who participate most hotly and quickly in political debates, the people who drive directly to personal insults when anyone disagrees with them. All the modern Metalbournes have not been banned, because... well I am not admin or mod so I can't say why they haven't, but I assume it's because we're already a small community and getting smaller all the time, and there's a fear that if you get rid of the dozen or so Metalbournes on the forum then you completely lose the community. If that is the fear I think it's ultimately wrong, because you lose just as many people if not more by letting the angry people run the show. But I also still understand the fear because some of the people who are angry and lashing out don't think that they're doing it,and they will react extremely negatively to being modded! And there will be consequences to any bannings that happen, because the people banned are fixtures here, having posted here for decades. There's simply no way to do it that doesn't hurt. And so, all the new Metalbournes continue to go around venting their anger on everyone and everything except the people they personally like.

    Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
    On my sleeve, let the runway start
  • Options
    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    We can just not read posts from people we don't like the posting of.

  • Options
    TuminTumin Registered User regular
    edited May 4
    Lanz where are we on giant fuckin' pictures in this buggy hellscape

    Do we just keep on going as always

    Just post 'em and let god do the accounting, in the end?

    I was a naive mobile poster, but now I see my crimes in the cold light of desktop

    Tumin on
  • Options
    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited May 4
    Just give us the list or whatever then

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • Options
    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    edited May 4
    Zek wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Cambiata your continued posting here is a form of self harm. You need to stop.

    Seems like you're literally proving their point, rudely shutting down someone who's trying to post in good faith because you feel attacked by what they're saying. I'm seeing a trend in this thread of people who complain about mods being rude to them are themselves being equally rude to others.

    Again, I have not complained about the mods being rude to me. I have no infraction history. One of my points in this thread is that if moderation was fair, I should have been infracted before the person who posted about Kosh's affair; if anything, I am benefitting from moderation having a positive or at least neutral opinion of me. I have not told anybody that they should not post here just based on their opinions. It's very obvious that this is just about putting me on A Side that can be dismissed and not based on what I've been saying.

    I genuinely believe that Cambiata has been repeatedly posting in a way that is harmful to their own mental health, based on how they interacted in the previous thread: where they repeatedly claimed to be trying to get people to understand where she was coming from while directly insulting them or claiming they were a clique of bullies, seemingly unaware of how this comes across. This led to her getting getting more and more upset that people did not take her seriously and doubling down on insults. I have it on fairly trusted authority that at one point, to try to settle a beef with another forumer, she lied about the issue being a workplace drama to post it in the [job] thread to attract sympathy for her side.

    These are not healthy behaviors, and to see it continue in yet another thread, over a 7 year old issue with a user that was permabanned a long time ago, is a sign that they genuinely should stop engaging in threads about the health of the forums and trying to make it about their personal grievances. The behavior demonstrated is one step below being the Kosh Sucks Sockpuppet Guy.

    milski on
    I ate an engineer
  • Options
    Havelock2.0Havelock2.0 Sufficiently Chill The Chill ZoneRegistered User regular
    Tumin wrote: »
    Lanz where are we on giant fuckin' pictures in this buggy hellscape

    Do we just keep on going as always

    Just post 'em and let god do the accounting, in the end?

    I was a naive mobile poster, but now I see my crimes in the cold light of desktop

    No gods no masters

    only catgirls

    You go in the cage, cage goes in the water, you go in the water. Shark's in the water, our shark.
  • Options
    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    I know it's old hat at this point, with the discussion being more than 12 hours old and all, but as one of the old fucks around here who just logged on I gotta throw in my 2 cents

    I don't know this jacobkosh person from Adam, couldn't tell you a single thing they've posted elsewhere, and I couldn't give two shits what they get up to in their personal life

    but the fact that they thought the astoundingly petty and personally aggrieved posts they made in this specific thread were at all appropriate given the purpose and tone of the original post is just staggering. And that people came to their defense as if it was justifiable in any way?

    Like I guess some of this is inter-forum stuff or whatever but that behavior, specifically, is the definition of bush league. That is some 17-year-old-just-became-a-mod-for-the-first-time action. I love this forum to death but this whole thread is full of people showing their ass and even in that context, kosh's posts and the supportive response to it is goddamn embarrassing.

  • Options
    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited May 4
    Tumin wrote: »
    Lanz where are we on giant fuckin' pictures in this buggy hellscape

    Do we just keep on going as always

    Just post 'em and let god do the accounting, in the end?

    I was a naive mobile poster, but now I see my crimes in the cold light of desktop

    My feeling in general has been “I’ll try to spoiler tag them them in D&D to avoid drama, SE++ has less of a problem with it so I’ll leave them be with the assumption that the bug will be fixed soon and thus it’ll be weirder aesthetically to have normal size images tagged when you go back to find something again, particularly in the Palestine thread*, and personally I guess I’ll just scroll past them for now if they’re excessively big because it’s scrolling and I’m doing that anyway as is.”


    *especially when the things in question are news related

    Lanz on
  • Options
    enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    enc0re wrote: »
    I like the word emeritus to describe ElJeffe. He stepped down, but he’s still wearing the hat. He’d like to take the hat off, but the hat is stuck. So half his day he runs into tourists who are like, it’s the guy! And he’s like, I’m not the guy. The hat is stuck. I’d really like to take it off.

    But seriously, even if the staff made the intentional decision that mods emeritus get to keep the badge, would it matter? Do you treat posters differently because they have the badge?

    I like that mods argue and mod. The bold/non-bold distinction works well. Let’s not make yet another cost of modship that you become a second class poster.

    There is genuinely nothing more immediately corrosive to trust in moderation than having somebody take action on a fight they are involved in. That is a terrible thing to advocate for.

    Mods can and should be participants in the community, but if you are in a given thread you should be deferring to other mods to take action.

    I agree for arguments that are about a mod or their actions. I disagree for arguments about the thread topic.

    Mods engaging in threads produces more moderation, which I consider good. Apart from the technical issues, I think the main problem at least in DnD is a lack of mods and resulting moderation.

    If moderation aggressiveness has fallen to a 4, I’d like to see it turned back up to a 7 or 8.

  • Options
    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Cambiata, I'm going to attempt to be sensitive in my approach here, but it seems that when we as a community try to have these frank discussions of systematic issues you do seem determined to pull the conversation to a personal incident involving you and another forumer (largely those not current present in the community anymore)?

    And I'm not trying to minimize the damage done to you but it might serve you well to recognize that you are developing a pattern of transforming yourself into the main character of these very community-focused threads, and that is beginning to upset the community at large.

    Zonugul, is it not strange to you to say this to me, when the entire thread has been about people complaining at slights that happened to them specifically, and how those slights are a sign of how things are messed up and need to change?

    Multiple people have brought up their personal interactions with Kosh. Were they wrong to do so? How else do you explain the effect Kosh's modding has had on you except by describing your personal experience? I would guess it's because he's a mod, and mod behavior is more impactful than individual behavior that you feel it's OK in that instance.

    But having mob rule, who can "vote down" alternate opinions by calling someone a "main character", that's every bit as powerful as a mod, TBH. Yeah you can say a mod could actually ban me which the angry mob cannot, but bans almost never happen and have extreme and continuous behavior behind them. Angry mob shutdowns just happen because people disagree with what a poster is saying.

    I brought up a disagreement with a mod decision, and was told I'm "rules lawyering the mods", a few posts later Oghulk brings up a disagreement with a mod decision and it leads to a discussion. What's the difference other than you agreed with the mod decision in my case, and disagreed with the mod decision in Oghulk's case? Doesn't is seem like someone is only a "main character" and "making it about themselves" when you disagree with them?

    Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
    On my sleeve, let the runway start
  • Options
    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Cambiata, I'm fine with people talking about their issues with Kosh because they're a current forumer who is currently posting.

    What you are doing is unearthing grievances from your own personal graveyard in what I can only describe as an attempt to suck the oxygen out of a community-focused discussion into a personal spotlight into your own lived tragedies.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
  • Options
    ZekZek Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Cambiata your continued posting here is a form of self harm. You need to stop.

    Seems like you're literally proving their point, rudely shutting down someone who's trying to post in good faith because you feel attacked by what they're saying. I'm seeing a trend in this thread of people who complain about mods being rude to them are themselves being equally rude to others.

    Again, I have not complained about the mods being rude to me. I have no infraction history. One of my points in this thread is that if moderation was fair, I should have been infracted before the person who posted about Kosh's affair; if anything, I am benefitting from moderation having a positive or at least neutral opinion of me. I have not told anybody that they should not post here just based on their opinions. It's very obvious that this is just about putting me on A Side that can be dismissed and not based on what I've been saying.

    I genuinely believe that Cambiata has been repeatedly posting in a way that is harmful to their own mental health, based on how they interacted in the previous thread: where they repeatedly claimed to be trying to get people to understand where she was coming from while directly insulting them or claiming they were a clique of bullies, seemingly unaware of how this comes across. This led to her getting getting more and more upset that people did not take her seriously and doubling down on insults. I have it on fairly trusted authority that at one point, to try to settle a beef with another forumer, she lied about the issue being a workplace drama to post it in the [job] thread to attract sympathy for her side.

    These are not healthy behaviors, and to see it continue in yet another thread, over a 7 year old issue with a user that was permabanned a long time ago, is a sign that they genuinely should stop engaging in threads about the health of the forums and trying to make it about their personal grievances. The behavior demonstrated is one step below being the Kosh Sucks Sockpuppet Guy.

    Maybe we should just address what people are saying at face value while assuming reasonably good intentions, instead of dredging up their forum history to psychoanalyze them and imply they're being hysterical? I don't believe you really thought that this would be taken as helpful advice. Especially when the original complaint was literally about being chased out of threads with weaponized social disapproval.

  • Options
    Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    We can just not read posts from people we don't like the posting of.

    I have a couple people muted and it has improved my experience. Though my understanding is the ignore list functionality is bugged as well, so maybe not an option if you maxed that shit out years ago.

    Stabbity_Style.png
  • Options
    PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Telling people they need to stop posting for their health is something you say as a friend or caregiver. If you're any other role, it backfires

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • Options
    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    It is incredibly telling that whenever someone points out the mob rule mentality of SE++ the same group of users jumps up to shit down the poster's throat. It is absolutely the heart of the problem we are seeing here. Especially with the Venn diagram of people who do their best to dog pile, and the people who want the ability to be even more hostile to people they don't like is basically a circle. More and more it is becoming apparent to me this is mostly a matter of different cliques trying to impose their vision of what the boards should be on the mod staff. I don't know if those people are right or wrong about that being for the best option, but it would be nice if they were at least honest about it.

  • Options
    HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Not to mention it's a discussion about a user who not only isn't here to defend themselves, but hasn't been here for a long time. They are firmly irrelevant, and have been for years. They do not affect the landscape of this place, nor have any influence over its culture and ongoing issues. Let that shit go, move on with your life, and I promise you that you'll be a much happier person as a result.

  • Options
    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    Yeah I don't even totally agree with Cambiata but milski you're kind of just being super condescending and dismissive and frankly mean. Nothing about the things you're saying or the way you're saying them sound like you actually care about them at all.

  • Options
    milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Cambiata your continued posting here is a form of self harm. You need to stop.

    Seems like you're literally proving their point, rudely shutting down someone who's trying to post in good faith because you feel attacked by what they're saying. I'm seeing a trend in this thread of people who complain about mods being rude to them are themselves being equally rude to others.

    Again, I have not complained about the mods being rude to me. I have no infraction history. One of my points in this thread is that if moderation was fair, I should have been infracted before the person who posted about Kosh's affair; if anything, I am benefitting from moderation having a positive or at least neutral opinion of me. I have not told anybody that they should not post here just based on their opinions. It's very obvious that this is just about putting me on A Side that can be dismissed and not based on what I've been saying.

    I genuinely believe that Cambiata has been repeatedly posting in a way that is harmful to their own mental health, based on how they interacted in the previous thread: where they repeatedly claimed to be trying to get people to understand where she was coming from while directly insulting them or claiming they were a clique of bullies, seemingly unaware of how this comes across. This led to her getting getting more and more upset that people did not take her seriously and doubling down on insults. I have it on fairly trusted authority that at one point, to try to settle a beef with another forumer, she lied about the issue being a workplace drama to post it in the [job] thread to attract sympathy for her side.

    These are not healthy behaviors, and to see it continue in yet another thread, over a 7 year old issue with a user that was permabanned a long time ago, is a sign that they genuinely should stop engaging in threads about the health of the forums and trying to make it about their personal grievances. The behavior demonstrated is one step below being the Kosh Sucks Sockpuppet Guy.

    Maybe we should just address what people are saying at face value while assuming reasonably good intentions, instead of dredging up their forum history to psychoanalyze them and imply they're being hysterical? I don't believe you really thought that this would be taken as helpful advice. Especially when the original complaint was literally about being chased out of threads with weaponized social disapproval.

    I think that pretending everything happens in a vacuum and starts exactly at this point and no further back is extremely silly, and also think that you really can't talk about assuming good intentions when, again, your first instinct was I must be whining because the mods were personally rude to me.

    I ate an engineer
  • Options
    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    It is incredibly telling that whenever someone points out the mob rule mentality of SE++ the same group of users jumps up to shit down the poster's throat. It is absolutely the heart of the problem we are seeing here. Especially with the Venn diagram of people who do their best to dog pile, and the people who want the ability to be even more hostile to people they don't like is basically a circle. More and more it is becoming apparent to me this is mostly a matter of different cliques trying to impose their vision of what the boards should be on the mod staff. I don't know if those people are right or wrong about that being for the best option, but it would be nice if they were at least honest about it.

    Can we please, please cut out this high school shit? I'm a regular SE poster and I can promise you we all hate each other just as much as we hate other subforums.

  • Options
    MagellMagell Detroit Machine Guns Fort MyersRegistered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    It is incredibly telling that whenever someone points out the mob rule mentality of SE++ the same group of users jumps up to shit down the poster's throat. It is absolutely the heart of the problem we are seeing here. Especially with the Venn diagram of people who do their best to dog pile, and the people who want the ability to be even more hostile to people they don't like is basically a circle. More and more it is becoming apparent to me this is mostly a matter of different cliques trying to impose their vision of what the boards should be on the mod staff. I don't know if those people are right or wrong about that being for the best option, but it would be nice if they were at least honest about it.

    I mean it was a user who got banned when SE++ had moderation which is the fundamental desire from forum changes we want. Mods in SE to stop that stuff.

  • Options
    PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    edited May 4
    This is why I would like to debate a system of rules rather than explore a forumer. Like, "don't talk about events involving people who are no longer here" is a social rule that can be considered and applied equally for everyone. I'm not endorsing it, but making a community decision about whether or not to adopt it is progress.

    Especially since we spent pages of the SE sticky thread bringing up a bunch of old ghosts

    Paladin on
    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • Options
    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    It is incredibly telling that whenever someone points out the mob rule mentality of SE++ the same group of users jumps up to shit down the poster's throat. It is absolutely the heart of the problem we are seeing here. Especially with the Venn diagram of people who do their best to dog pile, and the people who want the ability to be even more hostile to people they don't like is basically a circle. More and more it is becoming apparent to me this is mostly a matter of different cliques trying to impose their vision of what the boards should be on the mod staff. I don't know if those people are right or wrong about that being for the best option, but it would be nice if they were at least honest about it.

    Can we please, please cut out this high school shit? I'm a regular SE poster and I can promise you we all hate each other just as much as we hate other subforums.

    This ain't about different subforums. You can claim that I am wrong I suppose, but I can pull up receipts. The locked post that led to this had a lot of people explicitly stating this was the case, and they liked it.

  • Options
    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited May 4
    "this isn't about one subforum, but I'm ready to post a laundry list about one subforum" like what is the point of this? Why are we so incapable of acknowledging that we all are equally shitty at times?!

    like oh does d&d not dogpile? Does g&t not? Of course! We all do! There's no fundamental difference between any of these groups and it sucks

    edit: multiple edits for fat fingers while trying to nap

    Houk the Namebringer on
  • Options
    ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    the locked post that led to this had cambiata being an incredibly racist piece of shit

    so like, yeah, I don't really give a fuck about what she has to say about community standards, or politeness, or anything really

    Cause fuck her, that's why

    7h8wnycre6vs.png
  • Options
    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    "this isn't about one subforum, but I'm ready to post a laundry list about one subforum" like what is the point of this? Why are we so incapable that we all are equally shitty at times?!

    Oh we are. D&D as all kinds of problems as well. I kind of have to lol at the laundry list part cause it was one part. Why did I call it out as a SE++ problem? Cause the posters in the aforementioned thread literally said part of the culture of SE++ was shouting down and dogpiling people into acting different. This isn't some assumption I am making. It is pointing out something that was stated as fact by the people in question, and highlighting the consequences (positive or negative I dunno) so we can at least engage with it.

This discussion has been closed.