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On technical difficulties, mod coverage and other things:

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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    WRT mod/admin communication I will say that I think one of the reasons that a lot of people are expressing some disappointment with the posts so far is that I think we're a bit past the "some of you need to calm down" vague general statements. As I've said I think the othering has gotten very bad in these discussions. I think the only way we get it to stop is if mods and admins directly message people they feel are causing problems in that way and go "Listen. You're not, against the rules yet. But you really need to get your shit together". I think a lot of people are not going to feel that that's them unless they're singled out, and I don't mean that it has to be in public or whatever. Just, there probably needs to be some adult-to-adult "You're not bringing your best here man".

    Of course part of the issue there is that that only works if it comes from people who you trust, and as mentioned a lot of people feel their trust in various people has stopped existing.

    liEt3nH.png
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    OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    "this isn't about one subforum, but I'm ready to post a laundry list about one subforum" like what is the point of this? Why are we so incapable that we all are equally shitty at times?!

    like oh does d&d not dogpile? Does g&t not? Of course! We all do! There's no fundamental difference between any of these groups and it sucks

    D&D dogpiles, but also historically has had more mod involvement to tell everyone to knock it the hell off at some point.

    YMMV depending on the actual level of mod involvement over the years.

    SE++ has historically had a much lighter touch, and so the dogpiles go on and people either deal with it or leave.

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    NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    One last thing, and this is a short one, I swear:

    ElJeffe having mod privileges while claiming not to be a mod has been a frequent point of discussion over the past few weeks.

    I don't want to rehash all of that, so I'll just say this: I think it's fair to ask for a direct clarification on whether or not Jeffe is an active mod.

    I will also say that if he's not, I think it's fair to ask for an assurance that he will not have access to moderation tools that an average user wouldn't have.

    And I get that the forum is finding a lot of new and interesting ways to break right now, so potentially un-modding someone is a much lesser issue. I would still ask for that clarification, even if mod status isn't something that can be actively changed on the forum back end right now in the midst of everything else going on.

    Hello!

    I am not an active moderator.i have not moderated anything in months. My buttons still work, but rest assured that I have not even the tiniest little sliver of desire to deal with moderation now or ever again. Also rest assured that I respect Geebs enough to not cause him headaches by fucking around with those buttons when I no longer have the authority or responsibilities of an actual mod.

    There is a mod badge next to my avatar on the desktop forums, but I have also changed my title to reflect that I am not an active mod for those who are legitimately confused by whether or not I'm still moderating. I have also been removed from the list of active moderators for D&D.

    Hopefully this once and for all clarifies the question of whether I am a moderator.

    Geebs said he is working on a Hawaiian shirt to replace the mod badge and I gotta say, that is completely the wrong way to address the issue. It should be a chintzy gold watch.

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    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    "this isn't about one subforum, but I'm ready to post a laundry list about one subforum" like what is the point of this? Why are we so incapable that we all are equally shitty at times?!

    Oh we are. D&D as all kinds of problems as well. I kind of have to lol at the laundry list part cause it was one part. Why did I call it out as a SE++ problem? Cause the posters in the aforementioned thread literally said part of the culture of SE++ was shouting down and dogpiling people into acting different. This isn't some assumption I am making. It is pointing out something that was stated as fact by the people in question, and highlighting the consequences (positive or negative I dunno) so we can at least engage with it.

    ok well I don't know what thread you're talking about and stating something like that as "fact" by whoever seems pretty fraught but sure, we're all using this thread to get at each other's throats so whatever I guess

    What a fucking depressing thread this has turned out to be

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    MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    I genuinely don't think it's possible to tell someone that their behavior on here is unhealthy to themselves without sounding like a huge dickhead

    The whole "I am trying to tell you this for your own good" spiel always, always, always comes off as disingenuous no matter the intent

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    Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    edited May 4
    Nobeard wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    One last thing, and this is a short one, I swear:

    ElJeffe having mod privileges while claiming not to be a mod has been a frequent point of discussion over the past few weeks.

    I don't want to rehash all of that, so I'll just say this: I think it's fair to ask for a direct clarification on whether or not Jeffe is an active mod.

    I will also say that if he's not, I think it's fair to ask for an assurance that he will not have access to moderation tools that an average user wouldn't have.

    And I get that the forum is finding a lot of new and interesting ways to break right now, so potentially un-modding someone is a much lesser issue. I would still ask for that clarification, even if mod status isn't something that can be actively changed on the forum back end right now in the midst of everything else going on.

    Hello!

    I am not an active moderator.i have not moderated anything in months. My buttons still work, but rest assured that I have not even the tiniest little sliver of desire to deal with moderation now or ever again. Also rest assured that I respect Geebs enough to not cause him headaches by fucking around with those buttons when I no longer have the authority or responsibilities of an actual mod.

    There is a mod badge next to my avatar on the desktop forums, but I have also changed my title to reflect that I am not an active mod for those who are legitimately confused by whether or not I'm still moderating. I have also been removed from the list of active moderators for D&D.

    Hopefully this once and for all clarifies the question of whether I am a moderator.

    Geebs said he is working on a Hawaiian shirt to replace the mod badge and I gotta say, that is completely the wrong way to address the issue. It should be a chintzy gold watch.

    Considering the history of the comic this forum is established on, I wouldn't wish a gold watch on anyone.

    Raiden333 on
    There was a steam sig here. It's gone now.
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    PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    I genuinely don't think it's possible to tell someone that their behavior on here is unhealthy to themselves without sounding like a huge dickhead

    The whole "I am trying to tell you this for your own good" spiel always, always, always comes off as disingenuous no matter the intent

    I think if you have a good relationship, you can spend some of that and get a good outcome

    You'll run out of friendship capital if you keep doing it though

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    In all honesty I think the fact that we have lost so many mods due to burnout and that people are unwilling or unsuited to take up the mantle is, like the direction and tenor of this thread, particularly telling.

    If you have posted more than a dozen times in this thread in an attempt to litigate your specific issue and "win" the argument in the thread then you are part of the problem. If you cannot simply post your grievance in a straightforward manner with adequate substance and leave it be, and instead need some kind of explicit response that you and your specific problem and your desired solution will, in fact, be addressed, then you are part of the problem. If you think that everyone who disagrees with or doesn't care about your viewpoint is part of a clique or groupthink then you are part of the problem.

    I have watched mods that I have wholly respected and whose presence and participation on these forums was nothing but a positive get driven off in sheer frustration due to having to deal with some of you. The fact that I'm seeing known shit-stirrers and people who don't regularly post in D&D (whether due to an inability to follow the rules or a perceived general dislike) take the time to talk about D&D as though it was some kind of monolith and that we all think the same is indicative of the type of personality that is, in my opinion, part of the problem. It should not surprise anyone here that plenty of folks only participate in G&T because it's one of the few places where you can just talk about gaming and having fun without having to deal with the constant braying from Twitter and social media that seems to have seeped into certain subforums.

    If I have a disagreement with someone on the forum about a particular topic, even one that is near and dear to me, do you know what I do? I go "oh well, agree to disagree, I'm moving on with my life". Maybe I go play a game. Maybe I go for a walk. Maybe I call my niece or nephew or Little Brother. Maybe I watch a kdrama. You know what I don't do? Stew on this shit like it actually has a bearing on my actual life.

    If you cannot engage in a free message board in a healthy manner with some measure of perspective, and can't find a way to make it a constructive part of your life without devolving into a fear/shame/anger/anxiety spiral, then I kindly suggest you find something or somewhere else that will be a more positive influence on your life. Instead of treating this place like some kind of entitlement where you get to air out your super special thoughts and win internet points all day in the manner of your choosing.

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    Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Maddoc wrote: »
    I genuinely don't think it's possible to tell someone that their behavior on here is unhealthy to themselves without sounding like a huge dickhead

    The whole "I am trying to tell you this for your own good" spiel always, always, always comes off as disingenuous no matter the intent

    And if you genuinely feel that way, like, the appropriate avenue to do that would be a PM. Posting it in the thread just makes it obviously you're trying to do some sick burn or something and coating it with a veneer of concern and lets everyone else know you're a fucking silly goose.

    Stabbity_Style.png
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    OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    edited May 4
    Maddoc wrote: »
    I genuinely don't think it's possible to tell someone that their behavior on here is unhealthy to themselves without sounding like a huge dickhead

    The whole "I am trying to tell you this for your own good" spiel always, always, always comes off as disingenuous no matter the intent

    And if you genuinely feel that way, like, the appropriate avenue to do that would be a PM. Posting it in the thread just makes it obviously you're trying to do some sick burn or something and coating it with a veneer of concern and lets everyone else know you're a fucking silly goose.

    Notably, if you actually care you'll probably do it in a private message, as kindly as possible, and not in a public forum being as abrasive as possible.

    Orca on
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    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    "this isn't about one subforum, but I'm ready to post a laundry list about one subforum" like what is the point of this? Why are we so incapable that we all are equally shitty at times?!

    Oh we are. D&D as all kinds of problems as well. I kind of have to lol at the laundry list part cause it was one part. Why did I call it out as a SE++ problem? Cause the posters in the aforementioned thread literally said part of the culture of SE++ was shouting down and dogpiling people into acting different. This isn't some assumption I am making. It is pointing out something that was stated as fact by the people in question, and highlighting the consequences (positive or negative I dunno) so we can at least engage with it.

    ok well I don't know what thread you're talking about and stating something like that as "fact" by whoever seems pretty fraught but sure, we're all using this thread to get at each other's throats so whatever I guess

    What a fucking depressing thread this has turned out to be

    Zonugal's state of the forum post that led to this.

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Okay, so now that this has become the Airing of Grievances thread, can we get a GDST (preferably stickied and announced like this one was) for the purely technical issues, and when (or if) we can expect to see those addressed?

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    HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    edited May 4
    Maddoc wrote: »
    I genuinely don't think it's possible to tell someone that their behavior on here is unhealthy to themselves without sounding like a huge dickhead

    The whole "I am trying to tell you this for your own good" spiel always, always, always comes off as disingenuous no matter the intent

    While not 100% analogous because it's Real Life, I've had to have that discussion with multiple of my union siblings over the years. I assure you that it's very easy to take someone aside and have the "I am trying to tell you this for your own good" discussion with them if you come at them like a peer instead of like an authority. The second you bring your Cop Voice/Parent Voice to a discussion about someone's behavior, their reflex is almost always going to be defensiveness.

    And furthermore, you have to actually care about the person you're talking to. If it's just anon to anon in a weird liminal internet space, then yeah it's probably going to be about as effective as a sobriety intervention for a strange done by another stranger. But this place is pretty long-running, and the people here know each other fairly well, so with the right (read: not so thoroughly self-obsessed) community management, when done by people who know and care about each other, it's absolutely a thing that can happen and be productive.

    But key to the whole shebang coming together is that you gotta care about one another. Kinda hard to do when so many people center themselves as the main character of any given room they walk into. Bad mindset. I blame videogames.

    Hacksaw on
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    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Okay, so now that this has become the Airing of Grievances thread, can we get a GDST (preferably stickied and announced like this one was) for the purely technical issues, and when (or if) we can expect to see those addressed?

    Based on the initial post I don't think we will get an update until at least Monday. Geebs I think gave us a good run down of how it happened, and what to expect next. As complete a rundown as I think it is reasonable for us to expect as well.

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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Cambiata, I'm fine with people talking about their issues with Kosh because they're a current forumer who is currently posting.

    What you are doing is unearthing grievances from your own personal graveyard in what I can only describe as an attempt to suck the oxygen out of a community-focused discussion into a personal spotlight into your own lived tragedies.

    I choose my example very carefully. Because yes, I absolutely can name-and-shame people currently on the forums and point to them being an absolute shit, with receipts, but I have a fundamental goal of trying to describe what I'm seeing and not trying to shit-stir, so I selected a neutral example where no one would have to say, "is Cambiata shit-talking me? HOW DARE SHE."

    Suppose I did do a bunch of research on a specific poster or set of posters and brought you page after page of receipts of when they had been ugly and shut down discussion, would that make the patterns I'm pointing out more digestible? I don't think they would. I think they would make the person in question feel defensive and the people who particularly like that person defensive right along side them, and everything would become a trashfire. I don't like trashfires, I'm trying, earnestly, to avoid a trashfire.

    I'm also old and tired and my brain sucks in general and it doesn't want to do that level of research. But I still might do it if I thought it could genuinely help. Unfortunately, I think that research would only create a stupid new grudge. No one likes having their flaws pointed out, even if the flaws are all true.

    Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
    On my sleeve, let the runway start
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    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited May 4
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    "this isn't about one subforum, but I'm ready to post a laundry list about one subforum" like what is the point of this? Why are we so incapable that we all are equally shitty at times?!

    Oh we are. D&D as all kinds of problems as well. I kind of have to lol at the laundry list part cause it was one part. Why did I call it out as a SE++ problem? Cause the posters in the aforementioned thread literally said part of the culture of SE++ was shouting down and dogpiling people into acting different. This isn't some assumption I am making. It is pointing out something that was stated as fact by the people in question, and highlighting the consequences (positive or negative I dunno) so we can at least engage with it.

    ok well I don't know what thread you're talking about and stating something like that as "fact" by whoever seems pretty fraught but sure, we're all using this thread to get at each other's throats so whatever I guess

    What a fucking depressing thread this has turned out to be

    Zonugal's state of the forum post that led to this.

    any more context? I assume you're talking about the 52-page thread where we talked way too much about jelqing? Were you part of that thread and saw this behavior for yourself or just repeating what someone else told you? Is this direct experience from you over months and years? Is it more widespread and pronounced than say d&d or other places?

    because honestly this just sounds like vague forum beef from a few people who may just have shitty views, I honestly can't say without actual context. If you've got actual receipts by all means toss em out. This thread has obviously become the "be shitty to each other" spot so why not lay it all out

    Houk the Namebringer on
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    zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    I pretty much only post in D&D and a little tiny bit of G&T and definitely did not feel like the original discussion in SE was welcoming in any way so I didn't post there once. Now that this has become a forum-wide discussion, I don't want to get embroiled in any of the many beefs being relitigated here but have a one-and-done (hopefully anyway) thoughts on a few topics of this discussion.

    Out of the 200 or so regulars across the three main subforums there's maybe a handful of people who are under thirty, we're all grown ass adults who you would think could act like it on occasion.

    First point is nobody has the right to abuse or harass anyone. It's one thing to say something shitty in the heat of an argument but digging through someone's post history to score points against them is shitty stalker behavior. I'm aghast that people tried to slut-shame Kosh by digging up and sharing posts about at most consensual behavior between adults to try and score some morality points. Seriously, people participating in that - what the fuck is wrong with you? Were you just trying to provoke a response?

    With respect to infractions for reports, we've all seen what people post back to mods in open threads. If Sterica's count is correct and you can count infractions on one hand, I can only imagine what sort of post it takes to actually get an infraction. The mods who read those reports are real people, not punching bags for forum frustrations.

    Seriously, I can't reiterate enough - a lot of behavior towards mods and admin staff is behavior that would have a boomer who passes time yelling at retail and fast food workers balk and say 'jesus lighten up they are just doing their job'. This isn't righteous, this isn't changing the world, it's just being an asshole to people who aren't cops but more janitors trying to make our third space a bit less of a shithole.

    Other than that, hopefully SE gets the moderators it needs to address the issues the SE forumers seem to agree need moderation to address. I think everyone is clear that Jeffe isn't an active mod now and also him having that status tattooed to his account seems to be a load-bearing element of the forums. I'd love to see more transparency in infraction threads and more timely response from the admin but that shit is work and it's not really that important and we aren't owed it.

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    HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Cambiata, I'm fine with people talking about their issues with Kosh because they're a current forumer who is currently posting.

    What you are doing is unearthing grievances from your own personal graveyard in what I can only describe as an attempt to suck the oxygen out of a community-focused discussion into a personal spotlight into your own lived tragedies.

    I choose my example very carefully. Because yes, I absolutely can name-and-shame people currently on the forums and point to them being an absolute shit, with receipts, but I have a fundamental goal of trying to describe what I'm seeing and not trying to shit-stir, so I selected a neutral example where no one would have to say, "is Cambiata shit-talking me? HOW DARE SHE."

    Suppose I did do a bunch of research on a specific poster or set of posters and brought you page after page of receipts of when they had been ugly and shut down discussion, would that make the patterns I'm pointing out more digestible? I don't think they would. I think they would make the person in question feel defensive and the people who particularly like that person defensive right along side them, and everything would become a trashfire. I don't like trashfires, I'm trying, earnestly, to avoid a trashfire.

    I'm also old and tired and my brain sucks in general and it doesn't want to do that level of research. But I still might do it if I thought it could genuinely help. Unfortunately, I think that research would only create a stupid new grudge. No one likes having their flaws pointed out, even if the flaws are all true.

    You chose your example so carefully the person who slighted you in such a way to cause such extensive emotional trauma 7 years ago that you're bringing it up today -

    is dead.

    ...What?

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    GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    edited May 4
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    "this isn't about one subforum, but I'm ready to post a laundry list about one subforum" like what is the point of this? Why are we so incapable that we all are equally shitty at times?!

    Oh we are. D&D as all kinds of problems as well. I kind of have to lol at the laundry list part cause it was one part. Why did I call it out as a SE++ problem? Cause the posters in the aforementioned thread literally said part of the culture of SE++ was shouting down and dogpiling people into acting different. This isn't some assumption I am making. It is pointing out something that was stated as fact by the people in question, and highlighting the consequences (positive or negative I dunno) so we can at least engage with it.

    ok well I don't know what thread you're talking about and stating something like that as "fact" by whoever seems pretty fraught but sure, we're all using this thread to get at each other's throats so whatever I guess

    What a fucking depressing thread this has turned out to be

    Zonugal's state of the forum post that led to this.

    any more context? I assume you're talking about the 52-page thread where we talked way too much about jelqing? Were you part of that thread and saw this behavior for yourself or just repeating what someone else told you? Is this direct experience from you over months and years? Is it more widespread and pronounced than say d&d or other places?

    because honestly this just sounds like vague forum beef from a few people who may just have shitty views, I honestly can't say without actual context. If you've got actual receipts by all means toss em out. This thread has obviously become the "be shitty to each other" spot so why not lay it all out

    No, that is Garlic bread's thread. Zonugal's is a different one and I think titled State of the Forums. It was explicitly stated by multiple users. Yes I did participate in that thread, and no I was not dogpiled in that one. I get dog piled everywhere because I sometimes have unpopular opinions and don't back down to peer pressure. I dunno if it is worse one place or the other. I am just relaying what was generally agreed upon by many posters as a cultural touch stone of that sub-forum.

    Edit: Oh no it was sorry. I just didn't remember that much Jelqing talk I guess. Or just associate it with the former Jelqing thread.

    Gnizmo on
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    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    I don't think kosh's personal life choices matter one way or the other but nobody in this thread has been "slut-shaming" him, come the fuck on

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    Stabbity StyleStabbity Style He/Him | Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Zonugal wrote: »
    Cambiata, I'm fine with people talking about their issues with Kosh because they're a current forumer who is currently posting.

    What you are doing is unearthing grievances from your own personal graveyard in what I can only describe as an attempt to suck the oxygen out of a community-focused discussion into a personal spotlight into your own lived tragedies.

    I choose my example very carefully. Because yes, I absolutely can name-and-shame people currently on the forums and point to them being an absolute shit, with receipts, but I have a fundamental goal of trying to describe what I'm seeing and not trying to shit-stir, so I selected a neutral example where no one would have to say, "is Cambiata shit-talking me? HOW DARE SHE."

    Suppose I did do a bunch of research on a specific poster or set of posters and brought you page after page of receipts of when they had been ugly and shut down discussion, would that make the patterns I'm pointing out more digestible? I don't think they would. I think they would make the person in question feel defensive and the people who particularly like that person defensive right along side them, and everything would become a trashfire. I don't like trashfires, I'm trying, earnestly, to avoid a trashfire.

    I'm also old and tired and my brain sucks in general and it doesn't want to do that level of research. But I still might do it if I thought it could genuinely help. Unfortunately, I think that research would only create a stupid new grudge. No one likes having their flaws pointed out, even if the flaws are all true.

    You chose your example so carefully the person who slighted you in such a way to cause such extensive emotional trauma 7 years ago that you're bringing it up today -

    is dead.

    Like metaphorically dead because they were banned? Or like, actually, physically dead?

    Stabbity_Style.png
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    MagellMagell Detroit Machine Guns Fort MyersRegistered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    "this isn't about one subforum, but I'm ready to post a laundry list about one subforum" like what is the point of this? Why are we so incapable that we all are equally shitty at times?!

    Oh we are. D&D as all kinds of problems as well. I kind of have to lol at the laundry list part cause it was one part. Why did I call it out as a SE++ problem? Cause the posters in the aforementioned thread literally said part of the culture of SE++ was shouting down and dogpiling people into acting different. This isn't some assumption I am making. It is pointing out something that was stated as fact by the people in question, and highlighting the consequences (positive or negative I dunno) so we can at least engage with it.

    ok well I don't know what thread you're talking about and stating something like that as "fact" by whoever seems pretty fraught but sure, we're all using this thread to get at each other's throats so whatever I guess

    What a fucking depressing thread this has turned out to be

    Zonugal's state of the forum post that led to this.

    any more context? I assume you're talking about the 52-page thread where we talked way too much about jelqing? Were you part of that thread and saw this behavior for yourself or just repeating what someone else told you? Is this direct experience from you over months and years? Is it more widespread and pronounced than say d&d or other places?

    because honestly this just sounds like vague forum beef from a few people who may just have shitty views, I honestly can't say without actual context. If you've got actual receipts by all means toss em out. This thread has obviously become the "be shitty to each other" spot so why not lay it all out

    No, that is Garlic bread's thread. Zonugal's is a different one and I think titled State of the Forums. It was explicitly stated by multiple users. Yes I did participate in that thread, and no I was not dogpiled in that one. I get dog piled everywhere because I sometimes have unpopular opinions and don't back down to peer pressure. I dunno if it is worse one place or the other. I am just relaying what was generally agreed upon by many posters as a cultural touch stone of that sub-forum.

    What posters said was that without mods we've resorted to that and it generally works pretty well to police threads, but its not ideal.

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    ZonugalZonugal (He/Him) The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    "How dare you slut-shame someone for bragging about their engagement in adultery" is a BONKERS position to throw out.

    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
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    Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    ok did you all live in the same house or something?

    why wasn't I invited to the forumer house

    There was a steam sig here. It's gone now.
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    MagellMagell Detroit Machine Guns Fort MyersRegistered User regular
    I don't know if I would argue with an account made 15 minutes ago to shitpost

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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited May 4
    nvm, just a troll I guess.

    Cambiata on
    Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
    On my sleeve, let the runway start
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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Now that we're at the point of litigating decade-old forum grudges and the wave of alts is showing up I'm locking the thread until Geebs has the time or werewithal to read it.

This discussion has been closed.