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Penny Arcade - Comic - Star Trek Wars

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Star Trek Wars!

Penny Arcade - Comic - Star Trek Wars

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

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    MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    How many bars of gold-pressed latinum could a lightsaber cut thru, assuming a lightsaber could cut bars of gold -pressed latinum?

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    Farmer_10Farmer_10 Registered User regular
    That's interesting. The Borg wouldn't have any hang-ups about dicking around with the Dark Side of the Force. But can the Borg even feel strongly enough to access the Dark Side or are they so unemotional they would be locked out of that side of The Force?

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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited June 14
    Yeah, while this kind of argument can generally go places on the smaller scale (Chewbacca vs Worf! Star Destroyer vs Borg Cube!) when you say all you're bringing in Star Trek's inexhaustible supply of godlike and weakly godlike entities into play and even the burliest Force users in Star Wars just can't stand up to that kind of stuff.

    Tofystedeth on
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    tofurkeyforbigstevetofurkeyforbigsteve Registered User regular
    edited June 14
    It’s important to ask, who is the best space ship captain? (Not just the best pilot).

    tofurkeyforbigsteve on
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    palidine40palidine40 Registered User regular
    You said it during the comic, but, what the H... you bring in Q and its kind of over, but then its just an episode with Q in it. Which becomes some insane loki thing... "Q", the original Loki...

    *it doesn't matter if the star wars ships all hide in hyperspace like cowards, theres a few beings with that interdimensional access now. Hell, i think Wesley becomes a huge threat at that point...

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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Han Solo would win a shootout, Kirk would win in a punch out, Sisko would win in a cookout.

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    v2miccav2micca Registered User regular
    edited June 14
    I used to have this discussion with friends back in the day when any of us still actually cared. For me, the trump card was always the final TNG episode All Good Things. JLP is jumping back and forth through time from the first episode (7 years earlier) to the Current Episode, to the future (Probably around the time that the Picard Series take place) So, in the episode, there is a sequence where JLP is back with the season 1 crew, and they talk about the possible detection of type of particle/energy signature that was still in the early stages of theoretical within academia. Cut to present, and specific particle/energy analysis and processing equipment is now standard issue on all Federation Starships. In just 7 years in the Star Trek universe, we go from theoretical research to standard issue. In 30 years in Star Wars, they still haven't figured out how to build a faster hyperdrive than the one attached to a barely operation flying hunk of junk.

    v2micca on
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    tofurkeyforbigstevetofurkeyforbigsteve Registered User regular
    Force sensitive Borg would be great pilots, like most Jedi. But would they be good captains? No.
    Like, Admiral Ackbar is still a better captain than a force sensitive Borg.

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    RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    Thing about Q is that there's also a bunch of them. And Squire Trelane could beat them all up.

    But the thing about getting The Entire Universe involved, fighting for a single side, is that both settings probably have tons of living planets and star eaters and crazy stuff. And Star Wars wouldn't just have a bunch of Force sensitive stuff, it would have The Force, unified, fighting on behalf of its universe in which it is an inviolable rule. The Borg wouldn't be Force Sensitive because there is no Force in their universe, and the Force is a character on the opposing team.

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    MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
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    BremenBremen Registered User regular
    Ah, a debate for the ages. And I mean that literally, because I distinctly recall getting involved in those debates about 30 years ago.

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    Armored ChocoboArmored Chocobo Registered User regular
    Most Star Wars ships won't hold a candle to the most basic of Star Trek ones.

    They got no shields, for one. Even an escort could shred several Star Destroyers.

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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    v2micca wrote: »
    I used to have this discussion with friends back in the day when any of us still actually cared. For me, the trump card was always the final TNG episode All Good Things. JLP is jumping back and forth through time from the first episode (7 years earlier) to the Current Episode, to the future (Probably around the time that the Picard Series take place) So, in the episode, there is a sequence where JLP is back with the season 1 crew, and they talk about the possible detection of type of particle/energy signature that was still in the early stages of theoretical within academia. Cut to present, and specific particle/energy analysis and processing equipment is now standard issue on all Federation Starships. In just 7 years in the Star Trek universe, we go from theoretical research to standard issue. In 30 years in Star Wars, they still haven't figured out how to build a faster hyperdrive than the one attached to a barely operation flying hunk of junk.

    The Star Wars universe is so incredibly stagnant technologically.

    steam_sig.png
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    BremenBremen Registered User regular
    Most Star Wars ships won't hold a candle to the most basic of Star Trek ones.

    They got no shields, for one. Even an escort could shred several Star Destroyers.

    I have no intention to get involved in this debate, but what? Star Wars ships definitely have shields.

    Unless this was a trick comment to get me to actually get involved in this debate, in which case well played I guess.

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    Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User, Moderator mod
    Han Solo would win a shootout, Kirk would win in a punch out, Sisko would win in a cookout.
    A new challenger steps into the ring!

    qgchcmt12dap.png

    Pike would probably win in a cookout. Bu Sisko is the only one of two Captains invited to the cookout (the other being Captain Freeman).

    8i1dt37buh2m.png
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    SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    that cookout is the definition of Marge Simpson's "I just hope everyone has a nice time" to me, noone's leaving unhappy

    7qmGNt5.png
    D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
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    RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    But who would win in a Battle of the Bands between Figrin D'an and the Modal Nodes, and Vic Fontaine with Riker on the trombone and Data on the violin?

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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    Han Solo would win a shootout, Kirk would win in a punch out, Sisko would win in a cookout.
    A new challenger steps into the ring!

    qgchcmt12dap.png

    Pike would probably win in a cookout. Bu Sisko is the only one of two Captains invited to the cookout (the other being Captain Freeman).

    Hmmm I guess it depends on what kind of food is being made. They're certainly both contenders for sure.

    steam_sig.png
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    Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    What I want to know is which kid is backing what. I'm guessing Star Wars is the weapon of choice of the younger.

    H9f4bVe.png
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    DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    Gabe the younger is now old enough for facial hair. No wonder my hairline's been receding lately.

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    RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    Thing about Q is that there's also a bunch of them. And Squire Trelane could beat them all up.

    But the thing about getting The Entire Universe involved, fighting for a single side, is that both settings probably have tons of living planets and star eaters and crazy stuff. And Star Wars wouldn't just have a bunch of Force sensitive stuff, it would have The Force, unified, fighting on behalf of its universe in which it is an inviolable rule. The Borg wouldn't be Force Sensitive because there is no Force in their universe, and the Force is a character on the opposing team.

    Once the Borg assimilate some Jedi/Sith either all their midichlorians fuck off or the Borg have the Force now (or the Borg collective is corrupted from the inside by the new Force Ghost). Now could they assimilate other Force sensitives and train them in how to use the Force? That seems unlikely, without some kind of Force Ghost gestalt consciousness stuff happening in the Collective.

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited June 15
    v2micca wrote: »
    I used to have this discussion with friends back in the day when any of us still actually cared. For me, the trump card was always the final TNG episode All Good Things. JLP is jumping back and forth through time from the first episode (7 years earlier) to the Current Episode, to the future (Probably around the time that the Picard Series take place) So, in the episode, there is a sequence where JLP is back with the season 1 crew, and they talk about the possible detection of type of particle/energy signature that was still in the early stages of theoretical within academia. Cut to present, and specific particle/energy analysis and processing equipment is now standard issue on all Federation Starships. In just 7 years in the Star Trek universe, we go from theoretical research to standard issue. In 30 years in Star Wars, they still haven't figured out how to build a faster hyperdrive than the one attached to a barely operation flying hunk of junk.

    Star Trek characters routinely figure out unfamiliar technologies or phenomena from incomplete information completely in their heads.. Not even like your Spocks or Datas, but Harry Goddamn Kim could encounter an exotic elementary particle never before observed by humans and in a few minutes he's already accurately predicting its interactions with the long list of waves and beams he can make the ship emit if he fiddles with those little green memory cards.

    This is ultimately Star Trek's trump card in any setting vs. setting battle. They will in short order know your tech better than you do and with the power of the magic meeting room they will come up with some daffy bullshit to nullify your advantages. Humans were barely even in space when they won a war against dudes with planet destroying super weapons from the future. And their guns weren't even cold when they fought the preeminent technological super power to a standstill and followed it up with two hundred years of cold to hot war with a crazy death cult who got a bunch of tech from the last guys, all with the power of Weird Space Shit.

    If you dump a Space Marine chapter with all it's various seconded forces into Federation space, the first encounter might go their way. The 12th Fleet might be wiped out and a planet or two lost. But staggering loss of life does not slow down Starfleet when you've interrupted their comet surveys. By the next encounter Starfleet has figured out their tech without any need for incense burners. They've not only found those weird guns that the Imperium never knew their ships had until the machine spirits go haywire, they've figured out how to use the deflector dish to make it fire backwards into the ship. Oh you guys have psykers and once in a while one turns into a monster? Well the ethically questionable Vulcan from Starfleet Intelligence has figured out how to make them ALL transform by mind melding with one of them. Oh and he mind melded with a servitor and reawakened them all to their old personalities and they're all pissed, too. So have fun with that while we link up with Task Force Omega.


    If you want to beat the Federation you need somebody like the Culture because it's not about power or numbers but speed - the war needs to be decisively won before the first commercial break. If Janeway gets everyone in the meeting room the power of hack writing will destroy you.

    Hevach on
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    MarcinMNMarcinMN Registered User regular
    Ah, the Star Trek Wars. Not to be confused with the Star Wars Trek, which was the mass migration of Star Wars fans.

    (Do I need to make a proper attribution to a tv show reference?) :)

    "It's just as I've always said. We are being digested by an amoral universe."

    -Tycho Brahe
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    dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    Djiem wrote: »
    Gabe the younger is now old enough for facial hair. No wonder my hairline's been receding lately.

    Terrible news from 2021, then.

    Eventually, Noah will start shaving. And then you know what that means.
    hswbtav54ezn.png

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    Anon von ZilchAnon von Zilch Registered User regular
    Wars vs Trek wasn't really a thing in my neck of the woods when I was of the age to be arguing these things. Star Trek vs Babylon 5, on the other hand, was all the rage. I remember someone pitting the Shadows against the Borg and the Vorlons against the Q Continuum, and that latter one just seems kind of pointless.

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    RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    Djiem wrote: »
    Gabe the younger is now old enough for facial hair. No wonder my hairline's been receding lately.

    I like the implication that there is a finite amount of hair in the universe and we all have to share it.

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    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    The theory fits the facts we have

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    tofurkeyforbigstevetofurkeyforbigsteve Registered User regular
    Djiem wrote: »
    Gabe the younger is now old enough for facial hair. No wonder my hairline's been receding lately.

    I like the implication that there is a finite amount of hair in the universe and we all have to share it.

    The same thing goes for denim. It’s why they sell pre-distressed jeans.

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    PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    I mean Q would fight for the Star Wars side to fuck with Picard.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    But he would also be constantly popping in to remind Picard that there's a super simple science thing he can do to end the conflict immediately. Really now I knew humans were daft but this isn't that difficult of a problem you just (*snap* Star Destroyers disappear). See? You know how to do that, don't you? Well here, keep trying I'm sure you'll get it (*snap* Star Destroyers back, Q disappears).

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    v2miccav2micca Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    v2micca wrote: »
    I used to have this discussion with friends back in the day when any of us still actually cared. For me, the trump card was always the final TNG episode All Good Things. JLP is jumping back and forth through time from the first episode (7 years earlier) to the Current Episode, to the future (Probably around the time that the Picard Series take place) So, in the episode, there is a sequence where JLP is back with the season 1 crew, and they talk about the possible detection of type of particle/energy signature that was still in the early stages of theoretical within academia. Cut to present, and specific particle/energy analysis and processing equipment is now standard issue on all Federation Starships. In just 7 years in the Star Trek universe, we go from theoretical research to standard issue. In 30 years in Star Wars, they still haven't figured out how to build a faster hyperdrive than the one attached to a barely operation flying hunk of junk.

    Star Trek characters routinely figure out unfamiliar technologies or phenomena from incomplete information completely in their heads.. Not even like your Spocks or Datas, but Harry Goddamn Kim could encounter an exotic elementary particle never before observed by humans and in a few minutes he's already accurately predicting its interactions with the long list of waves and beams he can make the ship emit if he fiddles with those little green memory cards.

    This is ultimately Star Trek's trump card in any setting vs. setting battle. They will in short order know your tech better than you do and with the power of the magic meeting room they will come up with some daffy bullshit to nullify your advantages. Humans were barely even in space when they won a war against dudes with planet destroying super weapons from the future. And their guns weren't even cold when they fought the preeminent technological super power to a standstill and followed it up with two hundred years of cold to hot war with a crazy death cult who got a bunch of tech from the last guys, all with the power of Weird Space Shit.

    If you dump a Space Marine chapter with all it's various seconded forces into Federation space, the first encounter might go their way. The 12th Fleet might be wiped out and a planet or two lost. But staggering loss of life does not slow down Starfleet when you've interrupted their comet surveys. By the next encounter Starfleet has figured out their tech without any need for incense burners. They've not only found those weird guns that the Imperium never knew their ships had until the machine spirits go haywire, they've figured out how to use the deflector dish to make it fire backwards into the ship. Oh you guys have psykers and once in a while one turns into a monster? Well the ethically questionable Vulcan from Starfleet Intelligence has figured out how to make them ALL transform by mind melding with one of them. Oh and he mind melded with a servitor and reawakened them all to their old personalities and they're all pissed, too. So have fun with that while we link up with Task Force Omega.


    If you want to beat the Federation you need somebody like the Culture because it's not about power or numbers but speed - the war needs to be decisively won before the first commercial break. If Janeway gets everyone in the meeting room the power of hack writing will destroy you.


    I mean, I can't deny your accusations of Hack writing on various Star Trek series. (The Voyager Episode Threshold is a huge example of this phenomenon) But, I do find it strangely fitting that you would name drop so much Warhammer 40k lore in a rant about hack writing.

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    MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    "I have a blue milk delivery for a...Jean Luck Pickard?"

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited June 19
    v2micca wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    v2micca wrote: »
    I used to have this discussion with friends back in the day when any of us still actually cared. For me, the trump card was always the final TNG episode All Good Things. JLP is jumping back and forth through time from the first episode (7 years earlier) to the Current Episode, to the future (Probably around the time that the Picard Series take place) So, in the episode, there is a sequence where JLP is back with the season 1 crew, and they talk about the possible detection of type of particle/energy signature that was still in the early stages of theoretical within academia. Cut to present, and specific particle/energy analysis and processing equipment is now standard issue on all Federation Starships. In just 7 years in the Star Trek universe, we go from theoretical research to standard issue. In 30 years in Star Wars, they still haven't figured out how to build a faster hyperdrive than the one attached to a barely operation flying hunk of junk.

    Star Trek characters routinely figure out unfamiliar technologies or phenomena from incomplete information completely in their heads.. Not even like your Spocks or Datas, but Harry Goddamn Kim could encounter an exotic elementary particle never before observed by humans and in a few minutes he's already accurately predicting its interactions with the long list of waves and beams he can make the ship emit if he fiddles with those little green memory cards.

    This is ultimately Star Trek's trump card in any setting vs. setting battle. They will in short order know your tech better than you do and with the power of the magic meeting room they will come up with some daffy bullshit to nullify your advantages. Humans were barely even in space when they won a war against dudes with planet destroying super weapons from the future. And their guns weren't even cold when they fought the preeminent technological super power to a standstill and followed it up with two hundred years of cold to hot war with a crazy death cult who got a bunch of tech from the last guys, all with the power of Weird Space Shit.

    If you dump a Space Marine chapter with all it's various seconded forces into Federation space, the first encounter might go their way. The 12th Fleet might be wiped out and a planet or two lost. But staggering loss of life does not slow down Starfleet when you've interrupted their comet surveys. By the next encounter Starfleet has figured out their tech without any need for incense burners. They've not only found those weird guns that the Imperium never knew their ships had until the machine spirits go haywire, they've figured out how to use the deflector dish to make it fire backwards into the ship. Oh you guys have psykers and once in a while one turns into a monster? Well the ethically questionable Vulcan from Starfleet Intelligence has figured out how to make them ALL transform by mind melding with one of them. Oh and he mind melded with a servitor and reawakened them all to their old personalities and they're all pissed, too. So have fun with that while we link up with Task Force Omega.


    If you want to beat the Federation you need somebody like the Culture because it's not about power or numbers but speed - the war needs to be decisively won before the first commercial break. If Janeway gets everyone in the meeting room the power of hack writing will destroy you.


    I mean, I can't deny your accusations of Hack writing on various Star Trek series. (The Voyager Episode Threshold is a huge example of this phenomenon) But, I do find it strangely fitting that you would name drop so much Warhammer 40k lore in a rant about hack writing.

    40k is certainly full of hacky writing (I'm currently slogging through the Horus Heresy and hooo boy is it on display), but the thing about Star Trek's writing (hack but also a lot of its GOOD writing!) is that it takes everyone else's brand of hack writing and applies it to the enemies (they're never set back by their losses, their ships are huge and terrifying and unbeatable, etc), and then uses its own writing to explain why Starfleet still wins. Starfleet is certainly powerful and we occasionally see it's martial prowess on display, but we far more often see them win by technological mastery, guile, or straight up bullshit.

    Kirk, Picard, Janeway, Archer, and Freeman all won fights by bluffing that they had a weapon the enemy didn't know about. In three of these cases the enemy was pretty sure it was a bluff but unwilling to take the chance. Riker destroyed the Borg cube just seconds before the destruction of Earth because they don't guard their off button. Picard repeats the feat a few years later by... they never even explain it, he just gives orders, is told the orders make no sense, and then the orders work perfectly. Hell, Sisko defeated a galaxy crushing doomsday fleet by putting a gun to his own head and telling Space God, "IMA FUCKIN DO IT WATCH ME!"

    Hevach on
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Starfleet is certainly powerful and we occasionally see it's marital prowess on display, but we far more often see them win by technological mastery, guile, or straight up bullshit.

    I have that DVD

    steam_sig.png
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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Starfleet is certainly powerful and we occasionally see it's marital prowess on display, but we far more often see them win by technological mastery, guile, or straight up bullshit.

    I have that DVD

    Riker on Holodeck: Volume 27

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    MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Starfleet is certainly powerful and we occasionally see it's marital prowess on display, but we far more often see them win by technological mastery, guile, or straight up bullshit.

    I have that DVD

    Riker on Holodeck: Volume 27

    Trombone lessons indeed.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited June 20
    There exists an infamous TNG porno that was accidentally a good enough follower to Skin of Evil that a non-pornographic cut was made (which can be found on YouTube). Despite the existence of quite a few Star Trek pornos this is to my knowledge the only one with a Memory Alpha page.

    Hevach on
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    see317see317 Registered User regular
    MichaelLC wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Starfleet is certainly powerful and we occasionally see it's marital prowess on display, but we far more often see them win by technological mastery, guile, or straight up bullshit.

    I have that DVD

    Riker on Holodeck: Volume 27

    Trombone lessons indeed.

    The Rusty Trombone Sessions are volumes 29-36.

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    MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    MichaelLC wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Starfleet is certainly powerful and we occasionally see it's marital prowess on display, but we far more often see them win by technological mastery, guile, or straight up bullshit.

    I have that DVD

    Riker on Holodeck: Volume 27

    Trombone lessons indeed.

    The Rusty Trombone Sessions are volumes 29-36.

    Ah right. I bought the remastered box set. Would not recommend.

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