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The crwth Tapestry for Stalin Enthusiasts

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Posts

  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    edited April 10
    Straightzi wrote: »
    My two additional religious anecdotes are as follows:

    A) As someone who grew up without religion, I find it really hard to understand being lightly religious. Like, I flirted with the idea of getting into religion as a rebellious teen, but as an outsider, I couldn't see a path into religion that wasn't going whole hog into it. The idea of C&E Christians didn't make sense to me at that time, I couldn't understand how you could believe in something but not devote your entire life to it. I think this is a pattern that you specifically see with some varieties of born again Christians, people who find religion later in life and feel like they need to become not just religious but devout.

    B) As someone who has studied religion in an academic context and also has spent a long time thinking about the middle ages, I know a bunch about historical Christianity that doesn't necessarily overlap with the things that people raised in the church know. Like, my fiancée grew up Presbyterian, doesn't have much current religious sentiment, but has a lot of fondness for parts of the church. When we talk about religion, we're sometimes talking past each other because I'm talking about like, twelfth century monastic traditions while she's talking about a modern liberal church experience. We can get through a lot of these conversations just fine because there is enough commonality there, we largely possess the same knowledge, but every once in a while we get some really confusing places where we butt up against each other.

    To your first point, this was one of the big things that broke me as a religious teen.

    I was raised in that literal word of God environment, and was told that the Bible was all or nothing. It was all true or none of it was. And it was obviously true, right? The evidence of God is all around you. That's why uncontacted tribes go to hell when they die. They have evidence of the Judeo-Christian God all around them, the fact they settled on worshipping spirits and not Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior from Bethlehem in the middle fuckin east is on them. So we gotta go over there and tell em the Good News regardless of whether the travel authorities are yelling at us not to do it cause we're gonna get speared and introduce diseases they have no immunity to into their environment and kill them all. Because what matters is eternity. Sorry, that's a tangent.

    I saw and was taught that the Bible was the framework for life on earth as a Christian, and that to truly be a Christian was not only to have accepted Jesus as your savior and all that, but that you had to dutifully follow the path laid out in the text. Of course you would mess up and sin, but that's what Jesus was there for, and you had to make a conscious effort to learn and live righteously. There was no room for picking and choosing what you wanted, it was the whole thing or nothing.

    And what I saw, repeatedly, from the church and from the people in my life, was that it was all about convenience. That the Bible and "the word of God" mattered in the context of them continuing to be blessed with a nice car and a comfortable church and a place to go eat after Sunday service. That the people next to me at our Friday chapel in school (private Christian school, basically an hour or so of forced extra church) who would raise their hands and close their eyes while singing to sweet little jesus would then go sleep around and smoke and do whatever really fucked with me and it made me VERY angry as a child. It all felt like one big act we were all trying to use to convince eachother we were the real deal, and maybe even convince ourselves.

    That sort of set off the cracks at the base of my whole world view. The more I learned about the world from a historical and scientific standpoint, and the hate I saw on display after 9/11 and into the Obama years from these good Christian folk brought the whole thing down. From my own personal experience I was miserable and angry and scared because the people around me were miserable and angry and scared. I couldn't see a way around it. I knew Jesus called people to love the sinners and prostitutes and tax collectors but I was also being told that the devil was working to bring America down by normalizing homosexuality, liberalism, evolution and other "depravities." That we were living in the End Times. That the world hated us because we were Christians and they would throw us in the camps first chance they got. So it kinda broke me. I didn't want to hate people and be afraid all the time (13-17 was NOT a good time for me) but I also couldn't find a way that I could exist in the world as a Christian without the baggage and the inevitable fear and hate that came with it. So, if one thing wasn't true, then none of it was. I had a reverse come to Jesus moment in the middle of a panic attack at like, 12:45 am when I was 17 or 18. It all just kinda clicked that I had been intentionally or unintentionally lied to my whole life and my youth had been stunted and ingrown for absolutely no good reason beyond the hangups of the adults around me who couldn't recognize the cycle they were stuck in themselves.

    It's kind of why, and I don't mean this as an offense, I've never understood the idea of liberal churches. It just doesn't seem to be something that can really exist in the framework of Christianity, even with the feel good socialism of New Testament Jesus. It feels very much like a humanistic reworking of the religion to fit the normality of the modern day, which in my mind, undermines the essence of the biblial God. A God who is unknowable and jealous and was very clear on what is and isn't allowed. So, while I'd much prefer a liberal, chill church, I also see it as kind of contradictory and superfluous. But that's just me and my own particular religious trauma, I guess.

    Quetzi on
  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    edited April 10
    Also, @Straightzi I've been meaning to do a little more reading on the historical side of religion and the church and so on. Do you have any good recommendations on where to start? I've never really done the deep dive into exploring how the world I lived in for most of my childhood even came to be and I think I probably owe it to myself to do that.

    Quetzi on
  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    edited April 10
    I am just very disappointed in God

    Quetzi on
  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    edited April 10
    like, this isn't even a self-deprecating joke, I am very angry at God for letting me be born.

    should have really gone back to the drawing board w/ my model

    edit: holy shit, that is why I'm angry at God. I had never like, vocalized it before, but that's my thing, that's why!

    Quetzi on
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited April 10
    @Depressperado I know he gave dinosaurs a long run, but not long enough in my opinion.

    Quetzi on
  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    edited April 10
    like, this isn't even a self-deprecating joke, I am very angry at God for letting me be born.

    should have really gone back to the drawing board w/ my model

    Jeremiah 1:5 - "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you"

    And you fuckin signed off on this anyway, what the fuuuuuck?

    Quetzi on
  • QuetziQuetzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited April 10
    Juggernut wrote: »
    Also, Straightzi I've been meaning to do a little more reading on the historical side of religion and the church and so on. Do you have any good recommendations on where to start? I've never really done the deep dive into exploring how the world I lived in for most of my childhood even came to be and I think I probably owe it to myself to do that.

    Not really anything that works in a general overview sense, unfortunately. I've gotten rid of a bunch of my coursework stuff from college, and it looks like most of my religious studies books were part of that. Plus a bunch of it is kind of a sideways thing, if you read a bunch about the medieval period you just end up having to learn a ton about the Church. Uhhh, Sarah Vowell wrote a pretty good book on the Puritans, The Wordy Shipmates, that's sort of in the right direction.

    Quetzi on
  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    edited April 10
    when I was a little kid, my mom thought we should have some God in us, so for a few years we would go to church and aforementioned CCD, but then we stopped going and I was thrilled so I didn't question it

    when I was older, I mentioned it to my mom and she told me that she had several angry exchanges about the church like, keeping their congregation in perpetual emotional blackmail so that they could really just squeeze every donation and tithe, and they kicked us out.

    Quetzi on
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited April 10
    I think that passage is for horseshoe crabs.

    Quetzi on
  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    edited April 10
    Horseshoe crabs did kinda just pick a lane and stay in it. Solid design. Can't blame em.

    Quetzi on
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited April 10
    despite my irreligiousness, there are times when seeing a natural phenomenon or just like...the beauty of the world and think "oh yeah i can see why people would form religious beliefs from that"

    almost like hearing an original song after years of only hearing it sampled in other songs

    Quetzi on
  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    edited April 10
    despite my irreligiousness, there are times when seeing a natural phenomenon or just like...the beauty of the world and think "oh yeah i can see why people would form religious beliefs from that"

    almost like hearing an original song after years of only hearing it sampled in other songs

    One of the main things I like about concerts is the way a collective is united in not just hearing but feeling music, not just emotionally but physically, and it's a regular reminder of why churches have choirs.

    Quetzi on
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited April 10
    despite my irreligiousness, there are times when seeing a natural phenomenon or just like...the beauty of the world and think "oh yeah i can see why people would form religious beliefs from that"

    almost like hearing an original song after years of only hearing it sampled in other songs

    One of the main things I like about concerts is the way a collective is united in not just hearing but feeling music, not just emotionally but physically, and it's a regular reminder of why churches have choirs.

    as a catholic i was always envious of baptist and other church choirs. catholic hymns were so sullen and boring. every now and then mass would have an upbeat song and you could feel everyone's excitement to get into it

    edit: this is literally sister act

    Quetzi on
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited April 10
    In the military I would very, very rarely find myself at some kind of church-like tent or metal shed and let me tell you, we sing fucking awful. The only one I liked was Jubilate, which was sung to the tune of a football chant.



    You know what, per that one post about everyone worships something, I guess the closest I get to that feeling (after being alone in nature which is 1st) is definitely art, both music and visual art. I look at art and listen to music as often as I can.

    Quetzi on
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited April 10
    I need you to get a clue

    Quetzi on
  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    edited April 10
    The kind of systemic emotional abuse and neglect that a military fosters does not seem conducive to also producing musicians, tbh.

    edit: I've seen performances from a few of the US military's premier ensembles, and they are some of the most technically competent musicians I've ever seen/heard. But.

    Quetzi on
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited April 10
    Calica wrote: »
    The kind of systemic emotional abuse and neglect that a military fosters does not seem conducive to also producing musicians, tbh.

    I don’t know military bands have those guys that can play drums real fast, maybe that makes it all worth while?

    Quetzi on
  • crwthcrwth THAT'S IT Registered User regular
    edited April 10
    that’s uncalled for

    Quetzi on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited April 10
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Quetzi on
  • HoukHouk Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited April 10
    I've never really been much for huge concerts and stuff, I've only been to a couple and never really got that "connected to everyone else" feeling - I fully accept that this is something broken in me. but there's a recording of Tool doing Sober live and I watch it probably a couple times a month (especially after I've had a couple drinks, ironically enough). I can't really explain why but if I'd seen this live I'd probably have had the exact experience you're talking about

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7lweNCCwS0

    Quetzi on
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited April 10
    I can do a really good rendition of Jolly Little Beggerman these days and I like to sing that while I’m fixing things or bashing walls down for people, which bring me at least close to, say, a cherub if not a god.

    Quetzi on
  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    edited April 10
    when I was in 5th grade, my cousin brought me to see System of a Down and this big guy who was next to us lifted me up so I could see the band and I headbanged and it was being in a 5 Gum commercial, blew my mind.

    I wore the shirt I got to school the next day and explained that the mushrooms the band were sitting on were magic mushrooms. what makes them magic? I'm so glad you asked.

    10 year old me was way cooler than nowadays me

    Quetzi on
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited April 10
    Also occasionally you’ll read ex-military stuff from me and I hope no one feels uncomfortable or like they can’t say the Western military industrial complex blows, you should!

    Quetzi on
  • HoukHouk Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited April 10
    actually a copy of the boardgame Clue isn't a bad idea

    Quetzi on
  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    edited April 10
    my favorite live music to listen to is Hold Steady/Lifter Puller shows because Craig gets drunk and kinda forgets the words, but that's okay because the entire crowd knows them, and they just keep it going until he catches up again.

    plus they got that bar band energy I love

    Quetzi on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited April 10
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Quetzi on
  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    edited April 10
    that's another thing I don't like about God

    if I don't love me, you sure as hell don't get to

    Quetzi on
  • HoukHouk Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited April 10
    Also occasionally you’ll read ex-military stuff from me and I hope no one feels uncomfortable or like they can’t say the Western military industrial complex blows, you should!

    I can't speak for anyone else but I generally have a lot of tolerance for ex-military folks (or current military), we're all vulnerable to their frankly diabolical recruitment system to some degree (I came extremely close to joining up myself at 18) and by the time you're in the system it can be super hard to extract yourself or even see the bigger picture for why you would want to

    as long as you've got a reasonable view on things I'd give a strong side-eye to anyone who tries to give you too much guff about it

    Quetzi on
  • HoukHouk Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited April 10
    it's kind of funny because I've got two cousins who are sisters, one married a former navy man and the other a current army man and they could not be more different. navy man is the most chill dude ever - we don't see eye-to-eye on some things but he's eyes-wide-open on how fucked our military can be, especially at the leadership level, while the other is still in full hoo-ra mode and is a very abrasive asshole about it

    getting them together and getting a couple drinks in them is always a good time. it's never come to any kind of physical altercation but it's more than good-natured ribbing, to say the least

    Quetzi on
  • DelzhandDelzhand Coin Return Admin Registered User, Transition Team regular
    edited April 10
    I don't find it that weird. It took me into my late 20s to jettison my religious baggage.

    They escape its orbit or get sucked deeper as they age.

    Quetzi on
  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    edited April 10
    it's kind of funny because I've got two cousins who are sisters, one married a former navy man and the other a current army man and they could not be more different. navy man is the most chill dude ever - we don't see eye-to-eye on some things but he's eyes-wide-open on how fucked our military can be, especially at the leadership level, while the other is still in full hoo-ra mode and is a very abrasive asshole about it

    getting them together and getting a couple drinks in them is always a good time. it's never come to any kind of physical altercation but it's more than good-natured ribbing, to say the least

    you need a marine in there for them to both hate

    Quetzi on
  • HoukHouk Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited April 10
    funnily enough I was considering the air force. I haven't told either of them that because I'd like them to continue letting me talk

    Quetzi on
  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    edited April 10
    my dad was a marine and I used to threaten to join the navy to upset him

    edit: I need glasses so I don't think I can be an air force pilot

    does that apply to every kind of pilot? like, airline pilots and stuff

    Quetzi on
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited April 10
    How old are you (roughly if you like) @Houk the Namebringer I assumed we were all passed our sell by date on here?

    Quetzi on
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited April 10
    Join the air force he says! They wouldn’t let me join the morgue. I’m on a waiting list for a pyramid.

    Quetzi on
  • sponospono Mining for Nose Diamonds Booger CoveRegistered User regular
    edited April 10
    Can I get a medium slurpee, half cherry, half coke

    Quetzi on
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  • HoukHouk Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited April 10
    How old are you (roughly if you like) I assumed we were all passed our sell by date on here?

    oh no I definitely am, the idea of joining was years and years ago

    I just meant that if I told these two now that I was thinking of joining the air force back then they'd still judge me for it indirectly

    Quetzi on
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited April 10
    Gotcha!

    Quetzi on
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