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2024 US [Election] : The penultimate thread before the DNC
Ramius
Joined: July 19, 2000Administrator, ClubPA admin
Joined: July 19, 2000Administrator, ClubPA admin
Here is your continuing general US election thread for the year 2024. Good lord, a lot has happened in the past month.
It is a critical election with two fairly unpalatable presidential candidates who should be eating tapioca pudding in a retirement home, who instead will duke it out for control of the free world with an apparently rapidly changing situation where a Weird Old Man is going up against some sort of Dem nominee Vice President Kamala Harris (a lot has happened). US presidential elections as of late have become a stressful and contentious time on these forums, with a lot of infighting and poor posting habits that lead to accounts being jailed and/or banned. The moderators will be watching this thread more closely than any other thread on Debate and Discourse.
Also, a lot of congressional seats and governorships will be elected this year. Feel free to discuss those, but don't be surprised if all the oxygen is sucked out of the room by the presidential election discussion. Some of these side discussions may be easier to do in the appropriate state-level political threads.
General Rules and Posting Guidelines
Most of these rules and guidelines are already standing policy in Debate and Discourse political threads, but they are being reiterated here so you have absolutely no excuse for not knowing them. Some of them are for this specific thread only. You are responsible for these rules and reading the OP (and the entire thread, for that matter) if you want to participate in this discussion.
Who Are The Candidates?
Okay. Stop. Just stop. Get out of the thread. We don't really have time to educate you if you aren't willing to put one iota of research into this topic, or you live under a rock (unlikely, since you post here). If you want to post here, don't do so from a position of ignorance of the very basic topics. For very basic information about the upcoming election (Presidential, Congressional, Gubernatorial, or other), head to Ballotpedia.
Topics to Avoid
Not infractable (EDIT: Okay, maybe a little infractable, as a treat, but we'll give you a warning by default), but generally fruitless avenues of discussion that will get a LOT of side eye from the moderators.
Thread Locks
This thread will almost inevitably get locked due to some sort of infighting or trolling or whatever. When this thread gets locked early, it will be locked for a minimum period of 24 hours (possibly longer based on mod coverage).
New Election Threads
After this thread is locked at 100 pages, the Moderators will create the next OP for the new Election thread. Don't spin up a follow up thread (unless it's about a specific off-topic subject instead of the election, of course). Repeated bad behavior or doomposting may result in thread-kicks being carried over into new Election threads.
Mods will update this OP over time as more things need to be said. We'll hopefully also announce in the thread if there are other rules/guidelines that are being added, but you are responsible for knowing the stuff in this OP.
It is a critical election with two fairly unpalatable presidential candidates who should be eating tapioca pudding in a retirement home, who instead will duke it out for control of the free world with an apparently rapidly changing situation where a Weird Old Man is going up against some sort of Dem nominee Vice President Kamala Harris (a lot has happened). US presidential elections as of late have become a stressful and contentious time on these forums, with a lot of infighting and poor posting habits that lead to accounts being jailed and/or banned. The moderators will be watching this thread more closely than any other thread on Debate and Discourse.
Also, a lot of congressional seats and governorships will be elected this year. Feel free to discuss those, but don't be surprised if all the oxygen is sucked out of the room by the presidential election discussion. Some of these side discussions may be easier to do in the appropriate state-level political threads.
General Rules and Posting Guidelines
Most of these rules and guidelines are already standing policy in Debate and Discourse political threads, but they are being reiterated here so you have absolutely no excuse for not knowing them. Some of them are for this specific thread only. You are responsible for these rules and reading the OP (and the entire thread, for that matter) if you want to participate in this discussion.
- Be Kind - This is THE most stressful topic for a lot of the posters here. Now is NOT the time to deploy the snark cannon or the condescension engine or "fucking fuck FUCK", no matter how much you dislike another poster. Be gracious. Be kind. Realize that we're all stressed out here.
- Walk Away - If discussion is getting too heated or you find yourself replying to the same person over and over again in a short period of time... maybe you should talk a breather and walk away from the thread for a bit. I encourage folks, if they are getting into a fight here, to just stop posting and do something else. You don't need to win Internet points. It's not worth it.
- Stay On Topic - It's tempting to go down tangents or rabbit holes, but the election thread is bloated and difficult to read as it is. If your commentary does not pertain directly to the 2024 Election, consider making a God Damn Separate Thread.
- No memes or tweets without commentary and sourcing - If you link to a tweet or a screenshot of a tweet, copy and paste the full text of the tweet, and then source the author and why that author is important to listen to. With links being broken to tweets on a constant basis (and Twitter/X no longer working properly anymore, let alone on these forums), this is more important now than it was 4 or 8 years ago. YouTube video links (or Instagram or whatever) should also be sourced with a general synopsis of what's in the video, along with the subject or author of the video and why they are important.
- Limit your quoting and linking of an article - DO give us the source and the author and why it is important. But if you post text from the article, leave it at 3-5 paragraphs, TOPS. 1 paragraph, with relevant sentences bolded, is best. People do NOT need to read the entire article here! They can just follow your link. Give them enough to entice them to read the article, and leave it at that.
- Images should be spoilered - For best posting practices, because images take different formats on different devices, please spoiler tag your images. This includes screenshots of Tweets and Articles. We'll give SOME lee-way about this (not all pics are created equal), but in general, giant images tend to be annoying on mobile, and sometimes smaller images blow up to a large size on desktop. If you do post an image of anything, accompany that image with some commentary or opinion. If you don't have an opinion about it that you are willing to share, you shouldn't be posting it.
- This isn't a comedy standup show - This is not the place to practice your tight five or post a drive-by of a meme and leave it at that. You aren't boomers (the forum is getting old, but not THAT old)... don't just post unfunny political cartoons or a tired Anakin/Padme meme with political text. Don't post drive-by "gotchas" just to rile up the thread. Don't make snarky one-liners as replies. This kind of behavior will get you jailed or banned.
- No doomposting - Look, we get it. The last decade has been rough, and this past year has been ESPECIALLY rough. It's easy to lose hope or to give into despair. What we cannot allow you to do is to spray that all over the forums. We can't provide mental health services for you. This place cannot be the dumping ground for your trauma. Find help and assistance, or find some other social media to use instead of therapy (not recommended, but I know that's what most people do). But you can't do this here, and this will get you thread-kicked.
- No livetweeting events - What we mean by this is that it's pretty annoying to post "Wow, I can't believe he said that!" and not have any reference to who "he" was or what was actually said. If you are posting events happening in real-time at that moment, you better do a good job of identifying a news source that people can look up and the actual content of the events that are happening.
- No relitigating the 2016 Hilary Clinton vs. Donald Trump Election - Look, we know this is one of the prior elections that got us into this mess. But there's nothing we can say about this that hasn't already been repeated and flamed back and forth a hundred times in the past decade. Talk about the present, not the past.
- The use of political violence - This is a long-standing rule on the entire forums, but we cannot allow folks to endorse or imply political actions that result in violence. This includes death threats and threats of violence against public figures.
- Do not accuse other forum members of being agents of foreign powers or spies - First of all, this is technically a worldwide forum, not limited to the US. But these kind of accusations are never fruitful and only serve to blow up the thread, for some reason. I don't really think any world government has a vested interest in maintaining their propaganda on the Penny Arcade Forums.
Who Are The Candidates?
Okay. Stop. Just stop. Get out of the thread. We don't really have time to educate you if you aren't willing to put one iota of research into this topic, or you live under a rock (unlikely, since you post here). If you want to post here, don't do so from a position of ignorance of the very basic topics. For very basic information about the upcoming election (Presidential, Congressional, Gubernatorial, or other), head to Ballotpedia.
Topics to Avoid
Not infractable (EDIT: Okay, maybe a little infractable, as a treat, but we'll give you a warning by default), but generally fruitless avenues of discussion that will get a LOT of side eye from the moderators.
- The results of any individual poll - This is distinct from talking about the accuracy of a given poll result (the infamous biases that exist with phone polling, for example) or discussing the legitimacy of a poll. In general, any single poll is going to be meaningless unless context is given against other similar polls or the methodology/sample size used in the poll. "Latest CNN poll shows..." is pretty useless, and results change on an almost daily basis as part of our cursed 24 hour news cycle.
- In-depth medical discussion about dementia - I know the few of you who are health care professionals and doctors, but the rest of you have no business diagnosing someone who you've never examined with any sort of mental illness or dementia. We get it, they're old. This is a fruitless topic that leads to a lot of dumb things that laypeople say when they read WebMD.
- Palestine/Israel - This is an important topic, but take it to the MENA thread. Folks can post articles about it if it pertains directly to the US elections, but take further discussion to the MENA thread. "I'd like to talk more about this, but let's take it over to the MENA thread." - Use this line. You have permission from me.
- US Immigration policy - Again, an important topic, but take it to the existing Immigration thread. This one is a bit more lax because we're likely to see a lot of arguing about this from the candidates and the US political parties, but in-depth discussion of immigration policy should take place in the Immigration thread.
- Ukraine - In-depth discussion of what's going on in Ukraine should probably be routed to that thread.
- The philosophical principles of voting in general - We have a separate thread for that. It's a garbage fire, but it exists. Have at it over there.
- The usual Leftist vs. Liberal arguments - We know. It's a longstanding thing on these forums. As much as we all enjoy a circular firing-squad (spoiler alert: We don't), if this starts happening, that's the RIGHT time to walk away. Don't escalate. Use the report button. Post about something else. No political affiliation needs you, Joe/Jane Internet, to defend its honor or whatever. This one IS likely to lead to infractions or thread-kicks or a thread lock.
- Project 2025 - Yeah, this is the game plan given by conservative thinktanks in the US if they obtain enough power. But this is all stuff that happens AFTER the election. It's not their game plan for winning this election. There is a current thread about Project 2025, so lead discussion of Project 2025 here.
- Do not keep making the argument that Trump will be worse than Biden Harris - This is 100% obvious. Everyone knows this. You do not need to make this argument. Yet, it keeps getting made. If you feel compelled to say this in the thread for some reason, take a step back and actually listen to what people are saying. Especially don't keep harping about how Trump will be so much worse for the LGBTQ+ members of our forum! This has ONLY led to bloody and pointless arguments that eventually lead to thread locks. No one here is voting for Trump. Whether or not they are voting or voting for Biden Harris is their own personal dilemma and not yours. Do your political canvassing out there in the real world. Note that you can compare the candidates all that you want. But "Trump will be worse", while technically true, tends to be used as a dismissal or rebuff for criticism of Biden, and you can do better than that. Address the criticisms and arguments.
- 7/16/2024 Addendum - The Trump Rally shooting and assassination attempt - Try to avoid talking about the shooting except how it directly pertains to the Election. We plan on having a separate thread to discuss the shooting. Doomposting based on how this will bump Trump chances is not allowed in this thread, as are snarky comments about the shooting in general.
Thread Locks
This thread will almost inevitably get locked due to some sort of infighting or trolling or whatever. When this thread gets locked early, it will be locked for a minimum period of 24 hours (possibly longer based on mod coverage).
New Election Threads
After this thread is locked at 100 pages, the Moderators will create the next OP for the new Election thread. Don't spin up a follow up thread (unless it's about a specific off-topic subject instead of the election, of course). Repeated bad behavior or doomposting may result in thread-kicks being carried over into new Election threads.
Mods will update this OP over time as more things need to be said. We'll hopefully also announce in the thread if there are other rules/guidelines that are being added, but you are responsible for knowing the stuff in this OP.
Hahnsoo1 on
+4
This discussion has been closed.
Posts
https://abcnews.go.com/US/despite-new-criticism-trump-told-walz-2020-happy/story?id=112616502
Trump endorses Walz, in other words.
As Walz has said, monitoring the lunchroom ages a man.
Some say only six months, others say two semesters and nod sagely...
If he deployed as part of Operation Enduring Freedom, he would be considered to have deployed as part of the Global War on Terror and have a medal for it, right? Then he did technically deploy as part of a war.
To quote @Mill
This part saddens me.
Instrumentally it’s a nice rendition but I could do without that weird falsetto voice the guy does
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
She also sure as shit remembers how badly she was treated by republicans - including Vance, specifically - in the wake of her withdrawal from Tokyo
I would be wary of anything reported by the corpse of Sports Illustrated until someone with credibility reports it. Wouldn't surprise me, but definitely don't treat that as a fact.
The socialism thing? I think that's Instagram
But every time he opens his mouth he demonstrates that he's a bully, so.
Way to make socialism appealing to half of America you idiots lol
Wait that was him? He said that? I... look I wouldn't be surprised he thought it, but WHY WOULD YOU SAY IT?
She’s been very sassy about shit Trump says on her socials
Like, for all of them, but really really now
I don't feel sad at all, because I believe in tolerance as peace treaty. He wants attack others for their sexuality, he can go hump a chesterfield.
Because performative assholery and cruelty is his thing.
lewd.
*fans self*
Yep, this. They are desperately trying to find something to run counter to the couch thing. "LOL horse semen!" doesn't seem to be taking off, so now it's "They smell bad!" and I'm sure soon we'll get, like, "fellates corncobs" or some other tacky dumb shit. Because the right does not understand how memes work. Or jokes. Or humans.
For the party that created "truthiness", they sure don't understand how it works.
I took the screenshot myself.
The tweet doesn't appear to be deleted... yet.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Oh obviously.
One would think some small fraction of his lizard brain would be like "Hey maybe we shouldn't say that aloud about an Olympian specifically? America LOVES its sports-do-good-ers"
The thing is he has to latch on to whatever is making news at the time
He’s a Reply Guy Troll
I would have thought it was to counter the low grade rumors that Trump often smells bad and can’t control his bowels
This was Trump complimenting Walz for calling in the National Guard on BLM protests, so I'm not sure it's something Dems want to give a lot of airtime.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Re: Walz's disgruntled successor.
Based on the cranky letter itself:
https://www.wctrib.com/community/letters/the-truth-about-tim-walz
Walz was conditionally promoted to Command Sargeant Major (CSM) in fall of 04, prior to completing CSM school.
In 2005, Walz learned his unit would be deployed in 2006, and shortly thereafter asked to leave to run in 06. The angry letter says he could have asked permission to run while remaining in the guard:
But, while lambasting him for "abandoning" them with a vacancy in an essential command position, as well as not completing an expensive and coveted leadership course, they seem unwilling to follow that thought through. The argument they're making is that he should have finished school and stayed in his role for 6 more months, then abandoned them to run in '06, leaving a slightly larger hole with less time to fill it.
It also seems pretty likely that separating early and not doing that would be a sensible compromise for the DOD to offer.
Re: "He's lying about his rank"
I'm not seeing anyone claiming he's going around using the title of "CSM (Ret.)," which I would take issue with, for pedantry if nothing else, but I assume your dad/coworker/whoever is probably happy to keep referring to CAPT (Ret.) Ronny Jackson as "Admiral" because he doesn't really give a shit.
As far as any of the quotes cited by hostile sources go: All he seems to have ever said was he was a CSM when he left. He ultimately retired as an E8 (Master Sargeant) because he never finished school, but he was the CSM when he tendered his resignation. He was CSM, he is a retired E8, he does not appear to claim otherwise.
Again, my source for all the details of his career is the same angry, politically-motivated rant from which this bs all derives. I'm taking the author at their word, because it would be pretty weird to lie about it, but, then again...
I think that it’s important to keep in mind that despite this evidence, Trump still might not be lying about not knowing about Project 2025.
After all, he’s very old, and dementia is a thing. It’s not a lie if he really has no recollection of the events and can no longer remember anything about it!
Still, forgetting he took a plane trip with the guy and said some words in favour of the project? Yikes, sounds like he’s declining fast. For the good of the country he should follow Biden’s example and step down.
EDIT: 18 minute speech! I think that's more than Shapiro got yesterday.
Pretty sure Trump has a few other plane trips he's conveniently forgotten about.
“Yeah it still smells like farts from the last visit Trump had on it to tell Pence if he didn’t participate in a coup, Trump would have him murdered by his Brownshirts”
They are pretty insufferable right now and the best I can hope for is that Trump implodes enough that they don't vote for any republicans because the guy the GOP picked for the VA senate is a lunatic they can't stand and it's the same deal with the guy running against Vindman in VA 07.
Granted, it's interesting how those two assholes are too fucking crazy for them, but Trump isn't, despite the fact that he is just as fucking crazy. It really goes to show how the media has fucked this country over by treating Trump with kid gloves.
Michigan rally, it is a pretty big crowd. Definitely scroll back and watch Fain.
EDIT: Sen. Stabenow now, Slotkin probably has to get a speaking slot, Whitmer definitely has one, then the stumps.
My thing about all of this is that the GOP, for over 30 years, has thrown every bullshit thing to try and sink every Dem running for office no matter how mean-spirited or bullshit it is. Whitewater, everything involving teenage Chelsea Clinton, Al Gore "inventing the internet" lie, Swift Boating Kerry, the whole fucking birther shit against Obama, Glen Beck's "Just Asking Questions", Tan Suit Obama, Benghazi, Hunter Biden Ukraine bs, etc.
So like, this obviously made up couch fucking thing about Vance, that isn't even near the top of the Dems actual argument against Trump and Vance? Fuck them, they can reap all the garbage they've sewn.
Are you crossing your Beyonce / Biles wires, or is the latter also (rumored) to have donated 4m?
I remember reading a mention of the former.