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Penny Arcade - Comic - The Trepidator

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin

The Trepidator!

Penny Arcade - Comic - The Trepidator

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

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Posts

  • OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    Maybe they'd have better luck competing in the console market if they ratcheted back on the GaaS cancer and focused on the intended strength of the format, which is a "plug and play and it just fucking works on the spot without having to jump through a bunch of other hoops" experience.

    You know, instead of treating it like a closed ecosystem that they can dickwolf and pillage at will and cannibalizing their future revenue for bigger numbers right now.

  • LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    You can do that on pc now - buy a game and be playing it a minute later

  • Man in the MistsMan in the Mists Registered User regular
    Gotta give Master Chief a point there.

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    You can do that on pc now - buy a game and be playing it a minute later

    Even moreso now in the era of handheld PCs. For the first time there's a whole class of widespread gaming PCs with specs falling within a reasonably narrow range. It's not quite the uniformity of consoles but it's close, especially with the last console generation being split down the middle, and that green check in steam counts for something.

  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    It'll be interesting to read the news post. I hope it's not an old man yelling at clouds about how much better life was when you needed to buy a Nintendo to play Mario games, a Sega to play Sonic, an Xbox to play Halo, and a whatever the Playstation had on Playstation.

  • DirtyDirty Registered User regular
    Would it actually be that weird for Halo to be on PlayStation though? I recall hearing that a PS2 version of Halo CE was in the works before Microsoft bought Bungie. It's likely that some pre-alpha version of Master Chief was fighting the Covenant on a PS2 dev kit before work ever started on the Xbox version.

  • ArmsForPeace84ArmsForPeace84 Your Partner In Freedom Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    You can do that on pc now - buy a game and be playing it a minute later

    Or buy a game and be playing it thirty years later.

    Nothing personal. It's just business.
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Dirty wrote: »
    Would it actually be that weird for Halo to be on PlayStation though? I recall hearing that a PS2 version of Halo CE was in the works before Microsoft bought Bungie. It's likely that some pre-alpha version of Master Chief was fighting the Covenant on a PS2 dev kit before work ever started on the Xbox version.

    In the Playstation One era, Sony's mascot was Crash Bandicoot. And the first three Crash games were created by Naughty Dog, the darlings of Sony. And somehow, all these years later, Crash is on XBox, and the IP is in fact owned by Microsoft.

  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    edited August 19
    And now they're Crash-ing!

    MichaelLC on
  • agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    Master Chief and Joel Lastofus are going to kill it at the Olympic Games.

    ujav5b9gwj1s.png
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    You can do that on pc now - buy a game and be playing it a minute later

    Even moreso now in the era of handheld PCs. For the first time there's a whole class of widespread gaming PCs with specs falling within a reasonably narrow range. It's not quite the uniformity of consoles but it's close, especially with the last console generation being split down the middle, and that green check in steam counts for something.

    Filter the steam store by "Great On Deck" and it's effectively a console experience with their handheld.

    I've had a console since NES but at this point the only reason I have to buy another console is software exclusives. Which more and more often are only timed exclusives anyway.

  • DelzhandDelzhand Registered User, Transition Team regular
    Maybe they'd have better luck competing in the console market if they ratcheted back on the GaaS cancer and focused on the intended strength of the format, which is a "plug and play and it just fucking works on the spot without having to jump through a bunch of other hoops" experience.

    You know, instead of treating it like a closed ecosystem that they can dickwolf and pillage at will and cannibalizing their future revenue for bigger numbers right now.

    This is at least the second time I've seen you invoke dickwolves and I gotta say, it's pretty distasteful

  • OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    edited August 19
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    You can do that on pc now - buy a game and be playing it a minute later

    Which makes it especially stupid that these companies keep doubling down on the GaaS cancer on consoles. GabeN keeps getting proven right about things not being a pricing problem, they're a service problem. And it applies to more than just piracy. If someone gets less ownership over their system by virtue of it being a console, maybe one should offer a superior service to compensate instead of a *worse* one like what happens in a lot of GaaS design where you have even less convenience and even less freedom.

    There is a reason why most of my gaming is on PC over the last 10-15 years. They keep adding deleterious BS to the console experience.

    Overkillengine on
  • Emperor MegamanEmperor Megaman Registered User regular
    Dirty wrote: »
    Would it actually be that weird for Halo to be on PlayStation though? I recall hearing that a PS2 version of Halo CE was in the works before Microsoft bought Bungie. It's likely that some pre-alpha version of Master Chief was fighting the Covenant on a PS2 dev kit before work ever started on the Xbox version.

    That was before Master Chief became the Xbox Mascot and Halo their one Killer app, though.
    Halo on Playstation these days would be like if Sonic 2 released on SNES back in the 90s. That is "Sure, if you're not planning to sell consoles". As MasterChef point out in the strip.
    Minecraft being multi-platform make sense since it already was by the time Microsoft got it.
    Final Fantasy going multi-platform would make a bit more sense, in that while strongly associated with Playstation since FF7, FF is not actually a Sony brand. They have no obligation to stick to PS beyond Japanese business loyalty, and possibly a deal with Sony.
    Though, FF7R 2 struggles have more to do with video games budgets becoming too big for their own good. (first part had the advantage of also being on ps4, a console that by this point was cheap enough that probably every FF fan in the world owned one.)

  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Well I would say these days it would feel more like Sonic on the Gamecube/Wii.
    Halo was the killer app for Xboxes between 10 and 20 years ago. The number of exclusives has shrunk dramatically and there are various Halos on PCs as well.

    steam_sig.png
  • ArmsForPeace84ArmsForPeace84 Your Partner In Freedom Registered User regular
    These days, contrary to the popular narrative that is focused on console unit sales and the assumption, already tested and found wanting, that these figures accurately predict lasting dominance, I'd be inclined to see Halo on PlayStation less as Sony's tanks on Microsoft's lawn than the other way around. At least, if the brand can still command a following.

    Nothing personal. It's just business.
  • RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    Is John Halo even still considered the XBox mascot? Obviously they haven't really gotten anyone to replace him but I didn't think Halo was really considered...current (even if games are still coming out).

  • ArmsForPeace84ArmsForPeace84 Your Partner In Freedom Registered User regular
    Is John Halo even still considered the XBox mascot? Obviously they haven't really gotten anyone to replace him but I didn't think Halo was really considered...current (even if games are still coming out).

    What about John Hodgman? They could have him reprise his role as "I'm a PC" guy.

    Nothing personal. It's just business.
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited August 19
    Dirty wrote: »
    Would it actually be that weird for Halo to be on PlayStation though? I recall hearing that a PS2 version of Halo CE was in the works before Microsoft bought Bungie. It's likely that some pre-alpha version of Master Chief was fighting the Covenant on a PS2 dev kit before work ever started on the Xbox version.

    MacOS of all places, actually. The original was literally Bungee's previous series Marathon with the serial numbers filed off and puzzles cut out in favor of bigger action set pieces. To the point that Marathon had Mjolnir super soldiers wearing green Spartan space armor, fighting for the UESC against a vaguely religious collective of alien slave races, aided by holographic AIs. It was rare at the time for shooters to have narrative storylines but Marathon laid the groundwork Halo followed with, and Halo's fingerprints are still all over the FPS space to this day.

    So yeah, Halo was only an Xbox exclusive in the first place because Microsoft paid some major bucks for it to be, and if the line goes up for multiplatform then line gotta go up.

    Hevach on
  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    You can do that on pc now - buy a game and be playing it a minute later

    Which makes it especially stupid that these companies keep doubling down on the GaaS cancer on consoles. GabeN keeps getting proven right about things not being a pricing problem, they're a service problem. And it applies to more than just piracy. If someone gets less ownership over their system by virtue of it being a console, maybe one should offer a superior service to compensate instead of a *worse* one like what happens in a lot of GaaS design where you have even less convenience and even less freedom.

    There is a reason why most of my gaming is on PC over the last 10-15 years. They keep adding deleterious BS to the console experience.
    GaaS is slowly dying. Major developers are loathe to move away from “infinite profits.” But it’s not infinite. People can only play so many GaaS at once. And there are only so much money people have to put into the ecosystems. And it is tough to get people to stop their Skinner box gatcha where they have all their “stuff” and friends to play your Skinner box gatcha without those things. But GaaS revenue has been declining from the 2021 peak. So we’ll see.

  • ArmsForPeace84ArmsForPeace84 Your Partner In Freedom Registered User regular
    There are a ton of GaaS titles in development right now, nearly 500 of them by one estimate. But I agree, they're all going to face massive headwinds from their target market of whales already being squeezed dry. Fighting one another for the same dollar that's already been spent.

    Nothing personal. It's just business.
  • LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    Moving away from GaaS is tricky

    One problem is that players are now used to games being updated regularly and complain if their game doesn't get any updates. But you don't want to be spending money on a game that's not bringing in any more revenue

    Another problem is that you don't want to waste the experience of your dev team. As an analogy, cars were not a service. But someone buying a new car in 2006 might get a 2006 Corolla while someone buying a new car in 2007 might buy a 2007 Corolla. You still need to make new versions of the product, but you can use the experience of whoever designed the last model to design the new model which is going to be similar. Prior to GaaS the only way to do this was with sequels, but unlike with cars, if there are sequels people want to own each one (and complain if there are too many sequels or they're too similar)

  • LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    Deep Rock Galactic may an exception, that mostly pays for regular content updates by constantly bringing in new players over the last four years, though even they have cosmetic DLC that's mainly an appeal to fans of the game to support the devs

  • Emperor MegamanEmperor Megaman Registered User regular
    Is John Halo even still considered the XBox mascot? Obviously they haven't really gotten anyone to replace him but I didn't think Halo was really considered...current (even if games are still coming out).

    He is still the one brand associated with Xbox (and notably, XBOX isn't considered that current these days).

    Well I would say these days it would feel more like Sonic on the Gamecube/Wii.
    Halo was the killer app for Xboxes between 10 and 20 years ago. The number of exclusives has shrunk dramatically and there are various Halos on PCs as well.

    But Sega wasn't still trying to pretend they competed with Nintendo when the GBC and Wii came out. Sonic on GBC was explicitely Sega stopping making consoles and focus on selling games (well, focusing on making pachinko machines in Japan with a side business of making games on the side)
    PC is a different thing. Microsoft also have interest in people playing on PC while Sony doesn't (and even then that arguably did weaken the Xbox, I have seen dunno how many people pass on buying a Xbone or Serie since they can just play on PC).
    I'm not saying Microsoft shouldn't ever put Halo on Ps4, since it's not like Halo alone is going to sell Xbox these days, athey're already so far along the line already (with most of their stuff already being available outside of Xbox), that they could just throw the towel and transition to being a publisher. But that would be it, throwing the towel. If there's nothing to do on Xbox that you cannot do on Sony, there is no reason for the Xbox to be here. (which, again, might not be a bad idea for Microsoft)

  • zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    Moving away from GaaS is tricky

    One problem is that players are now used to games being updated regularly and complain if their game doesn't get any updates. But you don't want to be spending money on a game that's not bringing in any more revenue

    Another problem is that you don't want to waste the experience of your dev team. As an analogy, cars were not a service. But someone buying a new car in 2006 might get a 2006 Corolla while someone buying a new car in 2007 might buy a 2007 Corolla. You still need to make new versions of the product, but you can use the experience of whoever designed the last model to design the new model which is going to be similar. Prior to GaaS the only way to do this was with sequels, but unlike with cars, if there are sequels people want to own each one (and complain if there are too many sequels or they're too similar)
    They’ll need to innovate. Because fundamentally GaaS revenues are down while the games industry revive has gone up, but in both cases the increases were small. The video games industry has become a mature industry. More people are going to play games as the population increases, but more the market in. The higher income ranges and unless there is some innovation that can bring in new markets, which isn’t likely. The customer base is what it is.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    GaaS has proven, I think, that people are willing to continue to pay for games they continue to enjoy and there's nothing wrong with that, the pay model is just gonna have to get less exploitative to be sustainable. Like, if I kick a company a few bucks once a year for a game I like that's continuing to get development I look at that as a good transaction.

    It feels like some companies have already figured out that oh, we can have a season pass three or four times a year and players will buy a couple of them and the economics of that work out pretty well.

    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
  • LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    I thought people expect season passes to contain enough currency items to pay for the next season pass, so it becomes a one-off payment as long as you play enough

  • OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    Lttlefoot wrote: »
    Moving away from GaaS is tricky

    One problem is that players are now used to games being updated regularly and complain if their game doesn't get any updates. But you don't want to be spending money on a game that's not bringing in any more revenue

    Another problem is that you don't want to waste the experience of your dev team. As an analogy, cars were not a service. But someone buying a new car in 2006 might get a 2006 Corolla while someone buying a new car in 2007 might buy a 2007 Corolla. You still need to make new versions of the product, but you can use the experience of whoever designed the last model to design the new model which is going to be similar. Prior to GaaS the only way to do this was with sequels, but unlike with cars, if there are sequels people want to own each one (and complain if there are too many sequels or they're too similar)
    They’ll need to innovate. Because fundamentally GaaS revenues are down while the games industry revive has gone up, but in both cases the increases were small. The video games industry has become a mature industry. More people are going to play games as the population increases, but more the market in. The higher income ranges and unless there is some innovation that can bring in new markets, which isn’t likely. The customer base is what it is.

    Repeat of the same cycle that we had with WoW and MMO's in general, really. The market's (over)saturated as is, so to keep using that model they have either offer a better product than someone already established or create a new niche somehow, neither of which are strengths of most shareholder ran conglomerations.

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    A good start would be holding up their side of the promise. We keep hearing that a live service game is going to get updates and supports for some large numbers of years, like five or ten or more. And then it gets one half hearted DLC, a new map, the same season pass on a loop, and a shopping mall full of overpriced cosmetics.

    Publishers want the money for ten years but they don't want to provide value in the exchange.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular

    And then they shut down the servers.

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