Penny Arcade - Comic - I Wanna Destroy The Passersby

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Penny Arcade - Comic - I Wanna Destroy The Passersby

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

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Kane Red Robe

Hrm. Less than thrilled they're giving any attention to this game.

palidine40

Shots fired, tycho XD XD XD.

@Kane Red Robe , yeah, i hear ya... I'm not a fan of the child labor lords making games, and the west buying them

dennis

Though you could argue that Streisanding it would have some value.

https://www.wired.com/story/black-myth-wukong-streaming-controversy/

tastydonuts

Is there a substantiated claim or credible source that suggests that Game Science used child labor to make this game?

Not surprised that a Chinese company would ask/demand people not mention such topics, given it's a Chinese company, located in China and you really don't have to look far to see why they'd ask such a thing given their government's predilection for y'know... censorship and quashing dissent:


Source

Wired Article is paywalled but Paul Tassi (from Forbes) tweeted a portion of the document from a content creator he trusted or w/e...

But at the same time, that "child labor lords making games" thing seems about as absurd as the "SweetBaby detected" conspirators claims around this game too.

dennis

tastydonuts wrote: »

Wired Article is paywalled but Paul Tassi (from Forbes) tweeted a portion of the document from a content creator he trusted or w/e...

If you turn off javascript on Wired, the paywall crumbles.

It seems a bit more complex than just "well, it's because of the Chinese government":

An IGN report published last year uncovered a history of sexist and inappropriate comments made by Game Science’s employees and stakeholders. Cofounder Yang Qi has spoken about “how games made for women and men are completely different, due to their biological differences,” IGN reported; other examples include a technical artist discussing the possibility of masturbating to the game’s female snake spirit. Zhong, who was quoted in the IGN piece, told the publication that feminist organization in China was “very uphill,” with “crackdowns after labor organizing efforts, there's been crackdowns over discussing marital problems, there's been definitely crackdowns after people have accused prominent Chinese men of harassment, assault, or sexual misconduct, and the deck has been generally very stacked against them.”

To be clear, Chinese games “are not barred from feminism and have a lot of discretion over which smaller-scale social issues to talk about,” Zhong tells WIRED. “That Game Science put those guidelines out were in part the preferences of the company and not the government.”

It also seems that Game Science are just run by terrible people.

MichaelLC

Regardless of the country of origin, using the phrase, "feminist propaganda" should be enough to bury this thing.

Mosati

They way people talk about enjoying this game makes them sound like scam artists, just overly positive and very non-specific in their praise.

tastydonuts

Yeah, I could do that but bypassing their paywall in that fashion is technically a form of piracy, so I tend to avoid doing that.

I do agree that based off the IGN article that Wired quote points to that at the very least the public faces of Game Science are problematic for sure. So yeah, probably a combination of both there. It has quotes that show a pattern up to 2023, but I think it reasonable that even in 2024 they were making comments or thinking like that behind the Great Firewall (and Chinese language barrier).

But still trying to figure out where the child labor comes into play too.


edit: game itself didn't grab me, and I probably wouldn't buy it. at best it'd be something I would consider on Game Pass, provided the achievements weren't obnoxious.

dennis

tastydonuts wrote: »

Yeah, I could do that but bypassing their paywall in that fashion is technically a form of piracy, so I tend to avoid doing that.

It is in no way a form a piracy, "technically" or otherwise. It's 100% in a site's capability to not serve a non-javascript version of their page. If they choose not to, I am technically not losing any sleep over it.

tastydonuts

dennis wrote: »

tastydonuts wrote: »

Yeah, I could do that but bypassing their paywall in that fashion is technically a form of piracy, so I tend to avoid doing that.

It is in no way a form a piracy, "technically" or otherwise. It's 100% in a site's capability to not serve a non-javascript version of their page. If they choose not to, I am technically not losing any sleep over it.

I shan't partake in your illgotten magazine reading good sir!

I bet you probably read entire books in the bookstore and then put them back on the shelf too, you monster!

Quid

palidine40 wrote: »

Shots fired, tycho XD XD XD.

"Kane Red Robe" , yeah, i hear ya... I'm not a fan of the child labor lords making games, and the west buying them

I'd really like you to specify who, exactly, you're referring to as "the child labor lords making games" here. Game Science? The Chinese people? The Chinese government?

Lttlefoot

Seems like you can make games more difficult these days without scaring off half your intended audience. I'm not sure if this trend will continue

Rhesus Positive

dennis wrote: »

tastydonuts wrote: »

Yeah, I could do that but bypassing their paywall in that fashion is technically a form of piracy, so I tend to avoid doing that.

It is in no way a form a piracy, "technically" or otherwise. It's 100% in a site's capability to not serve a non-javascript version of their page. If they choose not to, I am technically not losing any sleep over it.

You wouldn't download an article

Bursar

newspost wrote:

Most of the fun I get out of them is .

I too have been guilty of "I'll come back to this when I think of the right word" and then forgetting to do so. That's why you have to use big, obnoxious <PLACEHOLDER HERE> stand-ins in your drafts.

Armored Chocobo

Black Myth: Wukong is the poster boy of "No matter what you do or say, people will forgive you if you make a good game."

I just recently finished the DLC of Elden Ring, I think I'm good enough on Soulslikes to give this a skip. Pity.

Djiem

Armored Chocobo wrote: »

Black Myth: Wukong is the poster boy of "No matter what you do or say, people will forgive you if you make a good game."

I might be biased because gaming is part of my interests and other things are not, so I don't see the same behavior elsewhere even if it exists, but I find that gamers (and geeks in general) are an incredibly unprincipled bunch who will rationalize everything, make any excuse, or flat-out ignore inconvenient facts in order not to miss out on the latest shiny thing they love. That "Boycott Modern Warfare 2 Steam Group" picture comes to mind.

We will do anything to separate the art from the artist because god forbid we have to skip one game, one book, one movie, one TV show, in a sea of games, books, movies and TV shows.

Sure, I have strong core beliefs and I profoundly feel that mysoginy/racism/transphobia is the worst thing ever and I refuse to ever support it in any shape or form, but what am I gonna do, not add this game to my incredibly backlogged Steam library?

Sidenote: this lack of principles and willpower is also in part responsible for how we went from Oblivion's horse armor to the predatory monetization scams of today's gaming.

Lttlefoot

Separating art from artist is itself a principle

Overkillengine

Oh it is definitely present elsewhere, gamers absolutely do not have a monopoly on it. It's just more obvious/annoying here because gaming is a hobby/luxury.

It's not something that a lot of people want to hear, but the consumer shares at least part of the fault in how things have turned out in general, not just in gaming. (And almost no one is exempt from this, so anyone getting their knickers in a knot can sit the fuck down unless they are a subsistence farmer or wildman in the woods.) Ever eat a banana, or chocolate for example? It's not exactly a well kept secret that unethical practices are rife in the supply chain that brings those things to the consumer. But doing without them is harder than turning a blind eye or making ultimately performative posts to social media.

Hell, they're rife even when the crop in question can be and is grown within our borders.

Djiem

Overkillengine wrote: »

Oh it is definitely present elsewhere, gamers absolutely do not have a monopoly on it. It's just more obvious/annoying here because gaming is a hobby/luxury.

It's not something that a lot of people want to hear, but the consumer shares at least part of the fault in how things have turned out in general, not just in gaming. (And almost no one is exempt from this, so anyone getting their knickers in a knot can sit the fuck down unless they are a subsistence farmer or wildman in the woods.) Ever eat a banana, or chocolate for example? It's not exactly a well kept secret that unethical practices are rife in the supply chain that brings those things to the consumer. But doing without them is harder than turning a blind eye or making ultimately performative posts to social media.

Hell, they're rife even when the crop in question can be and is grown within our borders.

I guess my bias comes from the fact that, like you pointed out, gaming is a hobby/luxury. Everyone needs to eat and clothe themselves, and not everyone has the wealth and resources to do it ethically. Some people try their best, some don't. But when it comes to gaming, no one needs that game, or that horse armor, or that battle pass, or to load their mom's credit cards to get v-bucks...

Lttlefoot

It's said that information is the scarcest commodity. Usually, people anywhere in the supply chain only know the price of an item and how much they want it. A chef gets cheaper tomatoes. Puts tomato soup on special. More customers eat it. Neither the chef, the customers, or the farmer know that the truck driver has been stealing from the petrol station which allowed him to pass on a discount to the chef

Overkillengine

Especially when the supply chain crosses one or more borders; making it exponentially more difficult to obtain information. It's getting outside the scope of this forum, but there are very valid arguments as to why production and consumption should be as localized as possible, and not simply that [outgroup] is being [socially acceptable perjorative label of the week].

dennis

I guess a better comparison to the luxury aspect might be technology. Nobody needs a smartphone that was probably made with questionable labor practices.