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2024 US [Election] Thread: Next, the Vance-Walz Debate on Oct. 1
Hahnsoo1
Make Ready.We Hunt.Registered User, Moderator, Administrator admin
Make Ready.We Hunt.Registered User, Moderator, Administrator admin
Here is your continuing general US election thread for the year 2024. Good lord, a lot has happened in the past month.
Just as a brief overview of all the crazy shit that's been happening:
US presidential elections as of late have become a stressful and contentious time on these forums, with a lot of infighting and poor posting habits that lead to accounts being jailed and/or banned. The moderators will be watching this thread more closely than any other thread on Debate and Discourse.
Also, a lot of congressional seats and governorships will be elected this year. Feel free to discuss those, but don't be surprised if all the oxygen is sucked out of the room by the presidential election discussion. Some of these side discussions may be easier to do in the appropriate state-level political threads.
General Rules and Posting Guidelines
Most of these rules and guidelines are already standing policy in Debate and Discourse political threads, but they are being reiterated here so you have absolutely no excuse for not knowing them. Some of them are for this specific thread only. You are responsible for these rules and reading the OP (and the entire thread, for that matter) if you want to participate in this discussion.
Who Are The Candidates?
Okay. Stop. Just stop. Get out of the thread. We don't really have time to educate you if you aren't willing to put one iota of research into this topic, or you live under a rock (unlikely, since you post here). If you want to post here, don't do so from a position of ignorance of the very basic topics. For very basic information about the upcoming election (Presidential, Congressional, Gubernatorial, or other), head to Ballotpedia.
Topics to Avoid
Not infractable (EDIT: Okay, maybe a little infractable, as a treat, but we'll give you a warning by default), but generally fruitless avenues of discussion that will get a LOT of side eye from the moderators.
Thread Locks
This thread will almost inevitably get locked due to some sort of infighting or trolling or whatever. When this thread gets locked early, it will be locked for a minimum period of 24 hours (possibly longer based on mod coverage).
New Election Threads
After this thread is locked at 100 pages, the Moderators will create the next OP for the new Election thread. Don't spin up a follow up thread (unless it's about a specific off-topic subject instead of the election, of course). Repeated bad behavior or doomposting may result in thread-kicks being carried over into new Election threads.
Mods will update this OP over time as more things need to be said. We'll hopefully also announce in the thread if there are other rules/guidelines that are being added, but you are responsible for knowing the stuff in this OP.
Just as a brief overview of all the crazy shit that's been happening:
- June 27, 2024 - President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump engage in the earliest debate ever staged between two Presidential candidates in an election year. Sick with a cold, Biden biffs it, causing widespread panic and despair among his supporters. Trump also pulls a bullshit crazy performance, but this largely goes unnoticed because that's par for the course.
- June 28, 2024 - Biden launches a rally in North Carolina trying to buoy the failing morale after a disastrous debate. "I don't debate as well as I used to, but I know what I do know... When you get knocked down, you get back up!" Despite the wisdom of Chumbawumba, few are convinced.
- July 5-7, 2024 - Biden has an interview where he says "only the Lord almighty could persuade him to step aside" and "I'll feel as long as I gave it my all and I did as good a job as I know I can do - That's what this is about." This is not reassuring. Hakeem Jeffries meets with senior party leaders in a crisis session. Democratic leaders meet with Biden, but seem resigned to have Biden stay on the ticket.
- July 10, 2024 - Fucking George Clooney butts in with an op-ed in the New York Times.
- July 13, 2024 - Donald Trump survives an assassination attempt at a rally in PA. A lot of forumers panicked and thought the election was over when Pulitzer-worthy photos of a defiant Trump were widely distributed on mainstream news.
- July 15, 2024 - Random Twitter user rickrudescalves tweeted, "can't say for sure but he might be the first vp pick to have admitted in a ny times bestseller to fucking an inside-out latex glove shoved between two couch cushions (vance, hillbilly elegy, pp. 179-181)." The tweet gained over 1.8 million views, 2,600 retweets and 35,000 likes in one week and spawns a huge wave of JD Vance couch memes.
- July 15-18, 2024 - The Republican National Convention occurs. JD Vance accepts the nomination of VP candidate to chants of "Mamaw". MAGA wears diapers on their ears. Hulk Hogan tears off his shirt. Kid Rock was also there. Trump locks in his coronation as King Trump of the GOP.
- July 17, 2024 - Biden tests positive for COVID and returns to his home in Delaware to isolate.
- July 19, 2024 - Biden reiterates that he's still in the race.
- July 21, 2024 - Psych! Biden announces that he will not seek re-election and endorses Kamala Harris, his VP.
- July 21, 2024 - Charli XCX declares "kamala IS brat"
- July 22-27, 2024 - In a shocking turn of events, Kamala Harris quickly consolidates support from wide swaths of the Democratic electorate, and multiple fundraisers over Zoom break records for attendance. A huge social media blitz across TikTok, Instagram, and other platforms quickly spreads a message of support for the new Presidential candidate.
- July 23, 2024 - Minnesota Governor Tim Walz appears on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” and says the thing we're all thinking: "These guys are just weird"
- July 28, 2024 - In just one week, Kamala Harris raises $200 million from supporters and donors, with 66% of the donations coming from first-time donors.
- July 31, 2024 - Trump has a disastrous panel at the National Association of Black Journalists, where he accused VP Harris of "being Indian, not Black, until recently", among various personal attacks and insults against the journalists in attendance and VP Harris.
- August 6, 2024 - After much speculation over a vetted list of candidates that included PA Governor Shapiro, Sec. of Transportation Pete Buttigieg, AZ Senator Mark Kelly, and KY Governor Andy Beshear (among many others), Kamala Harris announces that she has selected Minnesota Governor Tim Walz to be her running mate.
- August 12, 2024 - TIME magazine reveals their cover for the August 26th issue, featuring a portrait of Kamala Harris. Trump becomes obsessed with the quality of this picture, for some goddamn reason known only to him.
- August 14, 2024 - Amidst a surge in poll numbers for Harris, Republican strategists beg Trump to talk about economic policy. In North Carolina, Trump shakes two boxes of Tic Tacs calling this "Inflation", and then proceeds to go off-script to sling personal attacks against Harris, in front of a backdrop that says "No Tax On Tips" plastered all over it.
- August 15, 2024 - At his golf course in New Jersey, Trump stood in front of a bunch of food items placed on tables (ostensibly, to talk about grocery prices. They are barely referenced) to deliver what should have been an economic policy speech. He manages to dryly read from sheets of paper on his podium while exaggerating numbers, then fires off into personal attacks. Again.
- August 17, 2024 - MAGA are seen at a Trump rally brandishing JD Vance Jizz Cups. This is thought to be an attack against IVF and by extension Tim Walz, whose children were born via IVF.
- August 19, 2024 - The Democratic National Convention starts. Biden does not secretly reclaim the nomination as candidate for President, much to the chagrin of Trump and the GOP.
- August 20, 2024 - Lil Jon does the roll call for Georgia. The Obamas deliver a one-two punch dissing Trump and reminding everyone what 2008 was like.
- August 21, 2024 - Tim Walz accepts the nomination as VP of the Democratic Party ticket. John Legend attempts to cover Prince.
- August 22, 2024 - Kamala Harris accepts the nomination as President of the Democratic Party ticket. Beyonce and Taylor Swift are no-shows.
- August 22, 2024 - JD Vance visited Holt's Sweet Shop, a donut shop in Valdosta, Georgia. Cringe ensues.
- August 27, 2024 - Trump has a photo op at Arlington National Cemetery and commits yet another federal crime by bringing cameras to a restricted area. The response is a sternly worded letter from the US Army.
- September 1, 2024 - Trump says the quiet part out loud on a Fox News interview: "Whoever heard you get indicted for interfering with a presidential election where you have every right to do it"
- September 10, 2024 - The Harris-Trump debate. "They're eating cats and dogs" "A Concept of a Plan" "Trans Surgeries for Illegal Aliens in Prisons" there is no state in this country where it is legal to kill a baby after it's born."
- September 10, 2024 - Shortly after the debate, Childless Cat Lady Taylor Swift endorses Kamala Harris via Instagram post.
- September 15, 2024 - In an event that the media is calling another Trump assassination attempt, Secret Service agents open fire on Ryan Wesley Routh, a 58 year old white man with a rifle and bulletproof backpacks, for poking a rifle through the chain-link fence surrounding the Trump International Golf Club in Florida where Trump was golfing. Routh was approximately 500 yards away from Trump, but upon meeting resistance from the Secret Service, Routh fled the scene without firing a shot and was apprehended by authorities after vehicular pursuit. The man appears to be a former Trump voter and a current Republican Never-Trumper who backed Nikki Haley and Vivek Ramaswamy.
US presidential elections as of late have become a stressful and contentious time on these forums, with a lot of infighting and poor posting habits that lead to accounts being jailed and/or banned. The moderators will be watching this thread more closely than any other thread on Debate and Discourse.
Also, a lot of congressional seats and governorships will be elected this year. Feel free to discuss those, but don't be surprised if all the oxygen is sucked out of the room by the presidential election discussion. Some of these side discussions may be easier to do in the appropriate state-level political threads.
General Rules and Posting Guidelines
Most of these rules and guidelines are already standing policy in Debate and Discourse political threads, but they are being reiterated here so you have absolutely no excuse for not knowing them. Some of them are for this specific thread only. You are responsible for these rules and reading the OP (and the entire thread, for that matter) if you want to participate in this discussion.
- Be Kind - This is THE most stressful topic for a lot of the posters here. Now is NOT the time to deploy the snark cannon or the condescension engine or "fucking fuck FUCK", no matter how much you dislike another poster. Be gracious. Be kind. Realize that we're all stressed out here.
- Walk Away - If discussion is getting too heated or you find yourself replying to the same person over and over again in a short period of time... maybe you should talk a breather and walk away from the thread for a bit. I encourage folks, if they are getting into a fight here, to just stop posting and do something else. You don't need to win Internet points. It's not worth it.
- Stay On Topic - It's tempting to go down tangents or rabbit holes, but the election thread is bloated and difficult to read as it is. If your commentary does not pertain directly to the 2024 Election, consider making a God Damn Separate Thread.
- No memes or tweets without commentary and sourcing - If you link to a tweet or a screenshot of a tweet, copy and paste the full text of the tweet, and then source the author and why that author is important to listen to. With links being broken to tweets on a constant basis (and Twitter/X no longer working properly anymore, let alone on these forums), this is more important now than it was 4 or 8 years ago. YouTube video links (or Instagram or whatever) should also be sourced with a general synopsis of what's in the video, along with the subject or author of the video and why they are important.
- Limit your quoting and linking of an article - DO give us the source and the author and why it is important. But if you post text from the article, leave it at 3-5 paragraphs, TOPS. 1 paragraph, with relevant sentences bolded, is best. People do NOT need to read the entire article here! They can just follow your link. Give them enough to entice them to read the article, and leave it at that.
- Images should be spoilered - For best posting practices, because images take different formats on different devices, please spoiler tag your images. This includes screenshots of Tweets and Articles. We'll give SOME lee-way about this (not all pics are created equal), but in general, giant images tend to be annoying on mobile, and sometimes smaller images blow up to a large size on desktop. If you do post an image of anything, accompany that image with some commentary or opinion. If you don't have an opinion about it that you are willing to share, you shouldn't be posting it.
- This isn't a comedy standup show - This is not the place to practice your tight five or post a drive-by of a meme and leave it at that. You aren't boomers (the forum is getting old, but not THAT old)... don't just post unfunny political cartoons or a tired Anakin/Padme meme with political text. Don't post drive-by "gotchas" just to rile up the thread. Don't make snarky one-liners as replies. This kind of behavior will get you jailed or banned.
- No doomposting - Look, we get it. The last decade has been rough, and this past year has been ESPECIALLY rough. It's easy to lose hope or to give into despair. What we cannot allow you to do is to spray that all over the forums. We can't provide mental health services for you. This place cannot be the dumping ground for your trauma. Find help and assistance, or find some other social media to use instead of therapy (not recommended, but I know that's what most people do). But you can't do this here, and this will get you thread-kicked.
- No livetweeting events - What we mean by this is that it's pretty annoying to post "Wow, I can't believe he said that!" and not have any reference to who "he" was or what was actually said. If you are posting events happening in real-time at that moment, you better do a good job of identifying a news source that people can look up and the actual content of the events that are happening.
- No relitigating the 2016 Hilary Clinton vs. Donald Trump Election - Look, we know this is one of the prior elections that got us into this mess. But there's nothing we can say about this that hasn't already been repeated and flamed back and forth a hundred times in the past decade. Talk about the present, not the past.
- The use of political violence - This is a long-standing rule on the entire forums, but we cannot allow folks to endorse or imply political actions that result in violence. This includes death threats and threats of violence against public figures.
- Do not accuse other forum members of being agents of foreign powers or spies - First of all, this is technically a worldwide forum, not limited to the US. But these kind of accusations are never fruitful and only serve to blow up the thread, for some reason. I don't really think any world government has a vested interest in maintaining their propaganda on the Penny Arcade Forums.
Who Are The Candidates?
Okay. Stop. Just stop. Get out of the thread. We don't really have time to educate you if you aren't willing to put one iota of research into this topic, or you live under a rock (unlikely, since you post here). If you want to post here, don't do so from a position of ignorance of the very basic topics. For very basic information about the upcoming election (Presidential, Congressional, Gubernatorial, or other), head to Ballotpedia.
Topics to Avoid
Not infractable (EDIT: Okay, maybe a little infractable, as a treat, but we'll give you a warning by default), but generally fruitless avenues of discussion that will get a LOT of side eye from the moderators.
- The results of any individual poll - This is distinct from talking about the accuracy of a given poll result (the infamous biases that exist with phone polling, for example) or discussing the legitimacy of a poll. In general, any single poll is going to be meaningless unless context is given against other similar polls or the methodology/sample size used in the poll. "Latest CNN poll shows..." is pretty useless, and results change on an almost daily basis as part of our cursed 24 hour news cycle.
- In-depth medical discussion about dementia - I know the few of you who are health care professionals and doctors, but the rest of you have no business diagnosing someone who you've never examined with any sort of mental illness or dementia. We get it, they're old. This is a fruitless topic that leads to a lot of dumb things that laypeople say when they read WebMD.
- Palestine/Israel - This is an important topic, but take it to the MENA thread. Folks can post articles about it if it pertains directly to the US elections, but take further discussion to the MENA thread. "I'd like to talk more about this, but let's take it over to the MENA thread." - Use this line. You have permission from me.
- US Immigration policy - Again, an important topic, but take it to the existing Immigration thread. This one is a bit more lax because we're likely to see a lot of arguing about this from the candidates and the US political parties, but in-depth discussion of immigration policy should take place in the Immigration thread.
- Ukraine - In-depth discussion of what's going on in Ukraine should probably be routed to that thread.
- The philosophical principles of voting in general - We have a separate thread for that. It's a garbage fire, but it exists. Have at it over there.
- The usual Leftist vs. Liberal arguments - We know. It's a longstanding thing on these forums. As much as we all enjoy a circular firing-squad (spoiler alert: We don't), if this starts happening, that's the RIGHT time to walk away. Don't escalate. Use the report button. Post about something else. No political affiliation needs you, Joe/Jane Internet, to defend its honor or whatever. This one IS likely to lead to infractions or thread-kicks or a thread lock.
- Project 2025 - Yeah, this is the game plan given by conservative thinktanks in the US if they obtain enough power. But this is all stuff that happens AFTER the election. It's not their game plan for winning this election. There is a current thread about Project 2025, so lead discussion of Project 2025 here.
- Do not keep making the argument that Trump will be worse than Biden Harris - This is 100% obvious. Everyone knows this. You do not need to make this argument. Yet, it keeps getting made. If you feel compelled to say this in the thread for some reason, take a step back and actually listen to what people are saying. Especially don't keep harping about how Trump will be so much worse for the LGBTQ+ members of our forum! This has ONLY led to bloody and pointless arguments that eventually lead to thread locks. No one here is voting for Trump. Whether or not they are voting or voting for Biden Harris is their own personal dilemma and not yours. Do your political canvassing out there in the real world. Note that you can compare the candidates all that you want. But "Trump will be worse", while technically true, tends to be used as a dismissal or rebuff for criticism of Biden, and you can do better than that. Address the criticisms and arguments.
- 7/16/2024 Addendum - The Trump Rally shooting and assassination attempt - Try to avoid talking about the shooting except how it directly pertains to the Election. We plan on having a separate thread to discuss the shooting. Doomposting based on how this will bump Trump chances is not allowed in this thread, as are snarky comments about the shooting in general. 9/3/2024 Addendum to the Addendum - Okay, so we never ended up caring enough about this to create a thread on this topic, which is okay, because apparently no one cared about it after a week passed by. Wild.
Thread Locks
This thread will almost inevitably get locked due to some sort of infighting or trolling or whatever. When this thread gets locked early, it will be locked for a minimum period of 24 hours (possibly longer based on mod coverage).
New Election Threads
After this thread is locked at 100 pages, the Moderators will create the next OP for the new Election thread. Don't spin up a follow up thread (unless it's about a specific off-topic subject instead of the election, of course). Repeated bad behavior or doomposting may result in thread-kicks being carried over into new Election threads.
Mods will update this OP over time as more things need to be said. We'll hopefully also announce in the thread if there are other rules/guidelines that are being added, but you are responsible for knowing the stuff in this OP.
Hahnsoo1 on
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Posts
We have seen some shit
A Category 12 Election Dragon gets so many attacks per round.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
It remains insane that
Is just a single bullet point and has largely fallen from the zeitgeist.
(Also choose a better place for the screen cap folks)
Do better, thumbnail people.
I see what you did there.
Trump suggested recently that Mark Ellis and some other dude I don't remember might have had a hand in the attempt. Trump is personally annoyed that the whole thing amounted to nothing for him. He wore that stupid bandage to play it up and then just stopped and there is no significant visual evidence that there was an injury. Former White House Pill Farm Ronny Jackson even stated that he'd seen the injury and it was ~2cm big. (2cm = ~.75 inch for size reference) [he may have intended 2mm, but he didn't say that the bonehead]. The high amount of blood was claimed because the ear cartilage is highly vascular when it is, in fact, avascular.
But, since the whole thing just memory holed itself, nobody came close to asking the question about how he had so much blood from a location that has no blood vessels and no noticeable post-trauma wound. The shooting itself may very well not have been staged, but a whole bunch of hinky shit happened almost immediately that certainly makes it look very, very odd.
But, yeah. The assassination attempt certainly missed its mark.
Do not engage the Watermelons.
It's a smiling baby? What's wrong?
Thumbnail says "KAMALA HARRIS CUT HOUSING"?
Read the title, "Kamala Harris cut housing..."
It ends in "cost" but you don't see it.
If you click the embed it does, but there are no words before that for me at least. I had a screenshot ready to share before I realized the difference. At a glance it just looked like an extremely poorly cropped photo of a parent and child. It focuses mostly on the top of the heads of the others.
The GOP was bitten by the fact they have made school shooter types a thoughts and prayers and immediately forget situation. The fact this was just some idiot looking for a target of opportunity and was a registered republican and the fact the wound Trump took was basically his ear got nicked it wound up just being drowned out in the static that is our news. I was pretty certain when it happened that was it for the election then biden steps down harris steps up and a presidential assassination attempt is a barely news worthy foot note.
holy shit
I would defer to you for local and State I don't know much there outside of the Midwest, but there are not Democrats in Congress who are anti-abortion. There is a single anti-abortion Democrat, Cuellar, and he's probably going to be in prison by the 119th Congress. The Blue Dog caucus only has 10 Rep's, including Cuellar so it's going to hit single digits next year. The Dixiecrat presence in the Party is pretty much disappeared. This is a decade out of date, but can't find a more recent one since they updated their site:
That may well fluctuate as the caucus hopefully expands, Democrats don't have a majority in the House afterall, but anymore an elected Democrat at the Federal level 95% of the time means a liberal or a "moderate"
He fails to fist bump US House Rep. Marcy Kaptur. It's very "Get Out". I don't think this would be even a blip on the radar if he wasn't running for VP and had a long history of so many other gaffes.
That certainly had some sort of effect. But it's usually more effective if they're actually chanting Tots and Pears and demanding that we not politicise the tragedy. A presidential candidate being shot at should be massive news for at least the time between when it happened and when Biden steps aside. But it just...didn't.
And, by the way, Elise Stefanik is upset that Harris is politicising Trump's ANC political stunt.
Do not engage the Watermelons.
A terrorist fist grab?
My wife has told me how her grandfather suffered from chronic pain because doctors didn't treat a severe injury because of that attitude, so...go fuck yourself, Timmy.
Also, there's one pro-Sheehy ad where they have a woman talking about how she's afraid of "how the country is changing" that makes me say "I know you want to say those fourteen words, so do it, you coward."
Can we not?
Also cartilege may be avascular but the skin on your face bleeds a lot. Far more than skin on other parts of your body. It has loads of blood vessels.
No one offered an explanation because no one needed to because everyone knows that if you get a cut on your ear or scalp or face it bleeds like a motherfucker.
Some real "Use the force, Harry: Gandalf" energy in that messed up thumbnail
Like, the whole situation was weird, but I'm not sure where you'd fit a conspiracy into it. There's no indication that the shooter had any motive other than the obvious, and the Secret Service would need to sign off on a plan of "let this asshole take potshots at an ex-President (he promises to miss)". Which doesn't give Trump the ability to preplan anything.
I suspect the actual injury was from shrapnel. The injury being 2cm probably means 2cm long, and not that deep. (I managed a 1cm cut a few weeks back, without even getting shot at. I stuck a bandaid on it.) The fact that Trump was weirdly silent on any medical aspects is probably because he doesn't want people to find out his head has been filled with cream cheese for the last few years find out the true size of the injury, and he was almost certainly exaggerating the size of bandage needed, because Trump, but I don't see any room for anything sketchier.
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The screen grab really does not do it justice, it is so much worse in motion.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Not the shooting itself. Just the immediate response. And then the follow-up, as you say. It doesn't matter if anything was artificial, but none of it felt real. It actually happened and is nothing but a footnote as if it didn't.
Do not engage the Watermelons.
That's why wrestlers blade at just about the hairline. Not the upper external ear.
Do not engage the Watermelons.
I think the biggest factor is Trump didn't care. The media tried to make it a thing and push some narrative about a change of heart and all that bullshit. And Trump just ... didn't do anything. He didn't just not change, he didn't use it at all. He slapped a maxi pad on his ear for a bit but mostly he just golfed and ignored the entire event. So everyone else just moved on.
Trump almost got assassinated and was too fucking lazy to even make political hay about it.
That's crazy. I was just about convinced that would be the ball game in his favour. As I previously noted, July sucked.
His campaign tried, but he was out golfing like the next day, and the last thing he wants to talk about is being afraid of anything, or being in pain, or ever have been hurt or weak or vulnerable, so there's not a lot the campaign can do when the candidate tries to act like nothing happened.
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@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
I'm not going to judge Vance on that. Fist bumps turning any initial introduction into some stupid game of rock, paper, scissors is why I prefer to stay just over a sword's length away and nod hello.
Sometimes you've just got to stick with the classics.
Posted on Truth Social from his official account:
He's still trying to spin the event into the political narrative that they intended (the big event that Biden "skipped", not that he was ever invited). Also, he's still running against Biden?