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The Walz-Vance [Debate] thread on CBS, 9PM ET, Oct. 1, 2024

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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    never die wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Yeah right-wing media has pounced on that Walz misspeak, including ghoul Andrew Pollack who who likes to use his own daughter's death as a weapon to justify his right-wing insanity including now using it to push clips of Walz's misspeak.

    I don’t think it will stick. It’s an obvious flub with the surrounding sentences that I can’t see it being useful fuel.

    If you live in a swing state you're gonna see that repeated like 300 times a day if you see ads.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited October 2
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    I think this was pretty bad for Harris/Waltz and pretty good for Trump/Vance

    That sucks

    yeah knowing that voters know literally nothing from 5 seconds ago, I think they'll believe after this that Trump is actually a great persident, because nobody remembers 4 years ago, and that he's been in favor of obamacare forever, actually

    I'd like to say nobody is that stupid.

    I'd really, really like to.

    The harris Trump debate was an unmitigated disaster for Trump and he all but came out and shat himself and screamed "I have a poopy diaper" and harris "just barely won", so Walz doing decent and being honest and Vance doing decent and lying about literally everything will likely mean "Blowout: Walz confesses to being a liar and possibly Chinese spy/Vance lays out how he will lead us to the stars with God Emperor trump's crusade"

    override367 on
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Central OhioRegistered User regular
    “You sir are no Jack Kennedy” came from a VP debate

    The guy who said it was on a very badly beaten ticket

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  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User, Moderator, Administrator admin
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    "We should give women a choice between returning to work immediately, or taking a couple days off. Maybe you want to have your church provide child care. Harris's plan doesn't allow that."

    I'm sorry, but fucking what.

    It's school vouchers for private Christian schools, but for childcare instead.

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  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    Thinking people care enough about VP debates to tune in and misinterpret the performance is kind of charmingly optimistic in a condescending sort of way.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Who this burke you speak of? I missed that part

    Tim Burke's a journalist who the government is prosecuting for being given a password to Fox News stuff and using it to get unaired Tucker Carlson clips (particularly the Kanye interview).

    Also an insane college football in particular and sports in general clip compiler.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    Yeah, slow start strong finish works for Walz.

    Vance....fuck. Awful lies, but he did work super hard against being a giant awful prick.

    I legit have no clue how this will play.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Central OhioRegistered User regular
    The president version of this thread had like 5x the posts

    Nobody cares

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    thankfully, there's not a lot of memeable moments from the debate so I think it will get memory holed, they just need to make JD vance stay weird in the public consciousness

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Not about the tune ins, it’s about the soundbytes

    There’s a lot that Vance said that the media will run with in a positive light, and. A lot Waltz stumbled on that will play negative

    I disagree, Vance is not exciting or engaging, this is onyl bad for walz because voters are goldfish, not because this is exciting or will create engagement

  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    Who this burke you speak of? I missed that part

    Tim Burke's a journalist who the government is prosecuting for being given a password to Fox News stuff and using it to get unaired Tucker Carlson clips (particularly the Kanye interview).

    Also an insane college football in particular and sports in general clip compiler.

    Thank you for that information but now I'm confused why this was important to a presidential debate. Back to the video!

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  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    I think you could call it a draw, which ends up helping Trump much more and really doesn't do much either way for Harris.

  • sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    The president version of this thread had like 5x the posts

    Nobody cares

    In soccer (real football), this is called a bore draw.

  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    The president version of this thread had like 5x the posts

    Nobody cares

    I care.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Central OhioRegistered User regular
    Burke also compiled the Sinclair station propaganda clip of like 24 stations all reading the same right wing script

    And lots of other clips/gifs you know of

    And the case against him is super duper hot bullshit and the charges brought against him could put him in jail for the rest of his life

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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    I think both had really bad moments. Walz had the "I'm friends with school shooters" misspeak, and Vance had the tantrum with the moderators and "The rules said you wouldn't fact check me," but not much otherwise clippable or will do more than 5 minutes on Twitter. I don't know that either had particularly good moments either though. Vance took massive advantage of zero fact checking and just flagrantly lied about so fucking much, but that requires actually knowing basic things.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Central OhioRegistered User regular
    Raynaga wrote: »
    The president version of this thread had like 5x the posts

    Nobody cares

    I care.

    Good, take comfort that this won’t impact the race

    Help young people to vote in WI/MI/PA and GA

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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Turns out Vance is smooth in an environment he's ready for. He played that pretty damn well, came across as an actual real candidate with positions and shit. Standing at a podium and repeating stumps he can seem like a real person you might want to vote for.

    Walz did great and is the kind of person I want in power representing me. I know there are some criticisms of the positions he took on Israel and immigration but whatever.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    I think both had really bad moments. Walz had the "I'm friends with school shooters" misspeak, and Vance had the tantrum with the moderators and "The rules said you wouldn't fact check me," but not much otherwise clippable or will do more than 5 minutes on Twitter. I don't know that either had particularly good moments either though. Vance took massive advantage of zero fact checking and just flagrantly lied about so fucking much, but that requires actually knowing basic things.

    Walz: misspeaks but his meaning was clear
    Vance: lies his ass off about super important issues and refuses to accept the last election

    That last point is apparently the big takeaway from the punditry early, so a rare point for them. By far the most important thing that happened.

    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Vance: Refuses to acknowledge when asked the 1/6 insurrection was wrong.

    The biggest takeaway.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    It still just breaks my brain how mass deportation as housing policy gets read aloud with a straight face.

    It makes me think of the SNL skit of the Presidential debate after Independence Day
    https://www.tiktok.com/@huggyattack/video/7420993512243465514

  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User, Moderator mod
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Vance: Refuses to acknowledge when asked the 1/6 insurrection was wrong.

    The biggest takeaway.

    If not that surprising; one of the primary Republican party-loyalty shibboleths (after "Trump is infallible") is "January 6 wasn't a big deal" or, if feeling especially bold, "nothing actually happened on January 6." You're not going to find a lot of Republican candidates this year, or probably in 2026 or 2028, who don't either dodge the question or say the attacks were fine.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Central OhioRegistered User regular
    edited October 2
    moniker wrote: »
    It still just breaks my brain how mass deportation as housing policy gets read aloud with a straight face.

    It makes me think of the SNL skit of the Presidential debate after Independence Day
    https://www.tiktok.com/@huggyattack/video/7420993512243465514

    It reads to me like people actually reporting what he says instead of sanewashing and I trust people to read how dumb it is

    Captain Inertia on
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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    MSNBC is currently, while chatting with Pritzker in the spin room, is showing Walz and his wife eying post-debate pizza.

    The important things.

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  • ahavaahava Call me Ahava ~~She/Her~~ Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    "We should give women a choice between returning to work immediately, or taking a couple days off. Maybe you want to have your church provide child care. Harris's plan doesn't allow that."

    I'm sorry, but fucking what.

    It's school vouchers for private Christian schools, but for childcare instead.

    that was honestly so infuriating.

  • RehabRehab Registered User regular
    edited October 2
    I could have gone with Walz bringing up at least once that so much of what Trump/Vance will do is laid out in Project 2025 (even better if tied in with his response about the importance of fair elections). That said, I think he had really strong answers on Abortion, child care leave, the importance of upholding Democracy, and in general only got progressively better as the night went on. Vance seemed to only deflect more often and gave an ample amount of rambling avoidance in all the areas where Trump and his own stances are clearly terrible.

    Rehab on
    NNID: Rehab0
  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    It is interesting that in the whole debate, every single time Vance went back to leaning on his family or wife, he did not once (even when it was a somewhat sensible argument) bring up them being mixed race.

    I mean by interesting it's a complicated point but also for some dude who is apparently so family focused that doesn't play into even one of his concerns?

  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    It is interesting that in the whole debate, every single time Vance went back to leaning on his family or wife, he did not once (even when it was a somewhat sensible argument) bring up them being mixed race.

    I mean by interesting it's a complicated point but also for some dude who is apparently so family focused that doesn't play into even one of his concerns?

    Leaning into it would make him look more American, but the wrong kind of American

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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User, Moderator mod
    zagdrob wrote: »
    It is interesting that in the whole debate, every single time Vance went back to leaning on his family or wife, he did not once (even when it was a somewhat sensible argument) bring up them being mixed race.

    I mean by interesting it's a complicated point but also for some dude who is apparently so family focused that doesn't play into even one of his concerns?

    In the current conservative climate - in the wake of Roe being overturned people were musing about going after Loving - I suspect bringing that up would cost him more votes than he'd gain from it.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    It is interesting that in the whole debate, every single time Vance went back to leaning on his family or wife, he did not once (even when it was a somewhat sensible argument) bring up them being mixed race.

    I mean by interesting it's a complicated point but also for some dude who is apparently so family focused that doesn't play into even one of his concerns?

    When would the leopards ever attempt to eat the face of a Vice President?

  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    The point is we all know why.

  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    I think this was pretty bad for Harris/Waltz and pretty good for Trump/Vance

    That sucks

    yeah knowing that voters know literally nothing from 5 seconds ago, I think they'll believe after this that Trump is actually a great persident, because nobody remembers 4 years ago, and that he's been in favor of obamacare forever, actually

    I'd like to say nobody is that stupid.

    I'd really, really like to.

    Unfortunately stupidity turns out to be much easier to opt-in to than to opt-out of.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User, Moderator, Administrator admin
    So Vance basically didn't shit the bed at all. Even while lying through his teeth, he kept smiling through it all and didn't break kayfabe. I think while most people will consider this debate a draw (as born out by the YouGov and other instant polls going on at this moment), it's kind of a win for Vance. It showed to people that he can be a Real Boy (TM) sometimes under scrutiny, at least when it counts. So overall, it feels like a bit of a win for the pubs to me personally, if only because it continues to sanewash their image overall (considering the babbling buffoon at the top of their ticket).

    This is the kind of debate that West Wing Fanfiction Americans WANT to see. It was overall positive in tone with few attacks or gaffes. "See, both sides have valid points, bipartisanship, rah rah rah". It's a bit concerning, because that's a comfortable facade.

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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited October 2
    Sassy kid on MSNBC waving his finger "None of them can do shit because they're vice president, just like how Harris can't do shit now because she's just vice president."

    ArcTangent on
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  • madparrotmadparrot Registered User regular
    What sort of mileage could be gained by left aligned pundits pushing a message that "Vance lost, but even so, he did way, WAY better than Trump! What an amazing performance! Compared to Trump it was like night and day!"

  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    Sassy kid on MSNBC waving his finger "None of them can do shit because they're vice president, just like how Harris can't do shit now because she's just vice president."

    Except the whole night was about the 'Harris Administration' and why she's the incumbent president who had full control over the past four years, instead of being the VP with little actual power.

    But let's forget that Trump spent four years as the real actual President and didn't do any one of the things he's promising to do this time. Mostly with a friendly Congress even!

  • KelorKelor Registered User regular
    Vanguard wrote: »
    I think this was pretty bad for Harris/Waltz and pretty good for Trump/Vance

    That sucks

    I don’t think it it was bad for the campaign, I’d say at least solid to fine. Walz was great about issues he was passionate about, less so with presenting ideas like allowing Israel to first strike Iran and right wing border policy.

    I mostly agree on Vance, he did what he was picked to be VP for, which was to put a bland, coherent white face on the front of Trump’s fascism while pretending to be sympathetic to people and hammer hammer hammer on economics and immigration in a way Trump can’t maintain the disciple to do.

  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    madparrot wrote: »
    What sort of mileage could be gained by left aligned pundits pushing a message that "Vance lost, but even so, he did way, WAY better than Trump! What an amazing performance! Compared to Trump it was like night and day!"

    Man way to do a great job throwing Trump under the bus. This is clearly the future of the Republican Party and will throw the crusty old Trump in the dumpster and ride his coattails, clearly Trump isn't around much longer.

    It's an angle of course. I think any time is better spent promoting Harris / Walz as not being insane fascists but if you get some free opportunities might as well sow discord in your enemies.

  • Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    So Vance basically didn't shit the bed at all. Even while lying through his teeth, he kept smiling through it all and didn't break kayfabe. I think while most people will consider this debate a draw (as born out by the YouGov and other instant polls going on at this moment), it's kind of a win for Vance. It showed to people that he can be a Real Boy (TM) sometimes under scrutiny, at least when it counts. So overall, it feels like a bit of a win for the pubs to me personally, if only because it continues to sanewash their image overall (considering the babbling buffoon at the top of their ticket).

    This is the kind of debate that West Wing Fanfiction Americans WANT to see. It was overall positive in tone with few attacks or gaffes. "See, both sides have valid points, bipartisanship, rah rah rah". It's a bit concerning, because that's a comfortable facade.

    Vance came off as a slimy liquid teflon car salesman. You know why the slimy liquid teflon car salesman is a trope?

    Because they sell a lot of cars.

This discussion has been closed.