What sort of mileage could be gained by left aligned pundits pushing a message that "Vance lost, but even so, he did way, WAY better than Trump! What an amazing performance! Compared to Trump it was like night and day!"
I imagine that debate is currently being had internally.
I think this was pretty bad for Harris/Waltz and pretty good for Trump/Vance
That sucks
I don’t think it it was bad for the campaign, I’d say at least solid to fine. Walz was great about issues he was passionate about, less so with presenting ideas like allowing Israel to first strike Iran and right wing border policy.
I mostly agree on Vance, he did what he was picked to be VP for, which was to put a bland, coherent white face on the front of Trump’s fascism while pretending to be sympathetic to people and hammer hammer hammer on economics and immigration in a way Trump can’t maintain the disciple to do.
I'm on the same page at the moment which is wild to agree with you on something!
So Vance basically didn't shit the bed at all. Even while lying through his teeth, he kept smiling through it all and didn't break kayfabe. I think while most people will consider this debate a draw (as born out by the YouGov and other instant polls going on at this moment), it's kind of a win for Vance. It showed to people that he can be a Real Boy (TM) sometimes under scrutiny, at least when it counts. So overall, it feels like a bit of a win for the pubs to me personally, if only because it continues to sanewash their image overall (considering the babbling buffoon at the top of their ticket).
This is the kind of debate that West Wing Fanfiction Americans WANT to see. It was overall positive in tone with few attacks or gaffes. "See, both sides have valid points, bipartisanship, rah rah rah". It's a bit concerning, because that's a comfortable facade.
I guess its true that a draw is a win for the loser but I think Vance is the one who needed to change the narrative the most. I don't see the debate doing that. I doubt his favorable numbers are going up by any notable degree.
Two goats enter, one car leaves
+2
lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
So Vance basically didn't shit the bed at all. Even while lying through his teeth, he kept smiling through it all and didn't break kayfabe. I think while most people will consider this debate a draw (as born out by the YouGov and other instant polls going on at this moment), it's kind of a win for Vance. It showed to people that he can be a Real Boy (TM) sometimes under scrutiny, at least when it counts. So overall, it feels like a bit of a win for the pubs to me personally, if only because it continues to sanewash their image overall (considering the babbling buffoon at the top of their ticket).
This is the kind of debate that West Wing Fanfiction Americans WANT to see. It was overall positive in tone with few attacks or gaffes. "See, both sides have valid points, bipartisanship, rah rah rah". It's a bit concerning, because that's a comfortable facade.
ahem
excuse me
as the resident "everything in my life ends up being a reference to West Wing instead of The Simpsons" person
nope.
I don't want Uncle Fluffy. I want the person with the Eskimo poetry talking about federal aid and how 'unfunded mandate' is 2 words, not 1.
So Vance basically didn't shit the bed at all. Even while lying through his teeth, he kept smiling through it all and didn't break kayfabe. I think while most people will consider this debate a draw (as born out by the YouGov and other instant polls going on at this moment), it's kind of a win for Vance. It showed to people that he can be a Real Boy (TM) sometimes under scrutiny, at least when it counts. So overall, it feels like a bit of a win for the pubs to me personally, if only because it continues to sanewash their image overall (considering the babbling buffoon at the top of their ticket).
This is the kind of debate that West Wing Fanfiction Americans WANT to see. It was overall positive in tone with few attacks or gaffes. "See, both sides have valid points, bipartisanship, rah rah rah". It's a bit concerning, because that's a comfortable facade.
I guess its true that a draw is a win for the loser but I think Vance is the one who needed to change the narrative the most. I don't see the debate doing that. I doubt his favorable numbers are going up by any notable degree.
This is just going to vanish into the aether is the thing. The Trump supporters want Trump, not a guy who sounds like a pantomime of every "reasonable Republican" they already rejected to go all in on Trump.
But to be fair I don't understand the mind of the undecided voter at all: but between not and November there's essentially this, and then every insane thing Trump will say publicly which will eclipse this.
So Vance basically didn't shit the bed at all. Even while lying through his teeth, he kept smiling through it all and didn't break kayfabe. I think while most people will consider this debate a draw (as born out by the YouGov and other instant polls going on at this moment), it's kind of a win for Vance. It showed to people that he can be a Real Boy (TM) sometimes under scrutiny, at least when it counts. So overall, it feels like a bit of a win for the pubs to me personally, if only because it continues to sanewash their image overall (considering the babbling buffoon at the top of their ticket).
This is the kind of debate that West Wing Fanfiction Americans WANT to see. It was overall positive in tone with few attacks or gaffes. "See, both sides have valid points, bipartisanship, rah rah rah". It's a bit concerning, because that's a comfortable facade.
I guess its true that a draw is a win for the loser but I think Vance is the one who needed to change the narrative the most. I don't see the debate doing that. I doubt his favorable numbers are going up by any notable degree.
This is just going to vanish into the aether is the thing. The Trump supporters want Trump, not a guy who sounds like a pantomime of every "reasonable Republican" they already rejected to go all in on Trump.
But to be fair I don't understand the mind of the undecided voter at all: but between not and November there's essentially this, and then every insane thing Trump will say publicly which will eclipse this.
There's no such thing as an "undecided voter". What we have are uninterested voters completely disengaged from politics as a whole, and weak partisans who are aligned but also disconnected.
Ok yep that's it. That's the one that broke me. That's this years "Lady G's ladybugs." The one that proves none of this is real and somebody just spilled their coffee in my brain jar.
"You promised you wouldn't fact check" feels like a premade meme.
I don't have the liver to watch please tell me he didn't actually say this.
"Vance: The rules were you guys weren't going to fact check" after the moderators pointed out that Haitian immigrants Vance keeps calling illegal aliens do in fact have legal status.
"how DARE you call me on my bullshit! Mods?!"
"um, we are the moderators."
"how DARE you!"
Commander Zoom on
+24
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
And everything about those fact checks sounded like they were per-rehearsed and pre-planned and part of the question's framing, just delivered in the most bland way. Like CBS was trying to get their own moment like the Presidential debate.
And Vance actually walked face first into that rake.
And everything about those fact checks sounded like they were per-rehearsed and pre-planned and part of the question's framing, just delivered in the most bland way. Like CBS was trying to get their own moment like the Presidential debate.
And Vance actually walked face first into that rake.
There were a lot of horrible bullshit framing of questions. One that stood out is asking Walz of he would concede the point that ACA enrollment did in fact grow under Trump
You know, one of the casually worst parts of his whole explanation is that he says that the 'correct' way to immigrate is to apply and then wait for ten years.
Housing costs, job wages and availabiliy, crime rate, ease of drug access, ease of gun access, pet disappearances (previously), being fact checked, probably even more than that too.
So Vance basically didn't shit the bed at all. Even while lying through his teeth, he kept smiling through it all and didn't break kayfabe. I think while most people will consider this debate a draw (as born out by the YouGov and other instant polls going on at this moment), it's kind of a win for Vance. It showed to people that he can be a Real Boy (TM) sometimes under scrutiny, at least when it counts. So overall, it feels like a bit of a win for the pubs to me personally, if only because it continues to sanewash their image overall (considering the babbling buffoon at the top of their ticket).
This is the kind of debate that West Wing Fanfiction Americans WANT to see. It was overall positive in tone with few attacks or gaffes. "See, both sides have valid points, bipartisanship, rah rah rah". It's a bit concerning, because that's a comfortable facade.
ahem
excuse me
as the resident "everything in my life ends up being a reference to West Wing instead of The Simpsons" person
nope.
I don't want Uncle Fluffy. I want the person with the Eskimo poetry talking about federal aid and how 'unfunded mandate' is 2 words, not 1.
Sassy kid on MSNBC waving his finger "None of them can do shit because they're vice president, just like how Harris can't do shit now because she's just vice president."
saw this on social media; can anyone watching confirm if it is real? because if so what the fuck cbs
at this point, I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see the media reporting with a straight face,
"Trump presents bold 'final solution' to immigration, housing crisis"
Is that their actual policy? What federal land is there where people actually want to live? I guess in ski towns you could obliterate national parks and forest but I don't think that's what they mean.
saw this on social media; can anyone watching confirm if it is real? because if so what the fuck cbs
at this point, I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see the media reporting with a straight face,
"Trump presents bold 'final solution' to immigration, housing crisis"
Harris gonna be pissed that Trump was copying off her notes
Is that their actual policy? What federal land is there where people actually want to live? I guess in ski towns you could obliterate national parks and forest but I don't think that's what they mean.
Yes, that was Vance's suggestion. They'll just make houses on land. Never mind that a shit-ton of that land isn't being used because it's in the middle of nowhere or on mountain tops or in the middle of forests or the like and nowhere near actual cities or places people want to live, nor to mention all the environmental concerns. They'll just... make houses on... land. Somewhere.
The joke there is, of course, that Harris is actually the one promising to pass the republican anti immigrant bill because she is copying Trump's homework and so when I switched it up it was humorous.
For anyone who catches it or clips of it there’s a lot in there that reminds people that behind trump there are people like Vance, who WILL get things like national abortion bans done, who are true believers. There’s a chance that it does convince some that trump, who they usually dismiss as “not meaning what he says”, will have someone behind him who does mean what he says on things like abortion
Or people like the idea of mass deportations (which like 27% of Harris supporters support), and so we go down the road of fascist madness in a couple of months
Snap polls have it basically even (1 point margin to Vance because we're idiots), both candidates improved their favorability a lot. -22 to -3 for Vance, +14 to +37 for Walz.
The undecided voter focus groups are very, very small but preferred Walz, especially because Vance fucked up the J6 question.
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
I really don't love that Vance lying smoothly was apparently all it took for a bunch of people to just flat out ignore everything else he's said and done.
People love lies and they love liars, as long as nobody bothers them with the truth
In all seriousness he told some fucking whoppers
I hate Vance so much. Sitting there calling Haitians illegals, even when they’re legal, which is basically saying “every brown immigrant is illegal”. Just utterly sure none of this will hurt his own family. His soul is hideous
I think Vance’s aim here was to seem like “generic Republican” to reassure wavering Republican voters who are concerned about Trump’s insanity that there would be steady people around him.
Walz didn’t impress me much, he didn’t seem charming which is meant to be his talent.
Putting the fact-checking on the candidates didn’t work. Walz can’t live fact-check, he isn’t allowed to google. It just let Vance lie his ass off.
I really don't love that Vance lying smoothly was apparently all it took for a bunch of people to just flat out ignore everything else he's said and done.
I hate it but I'm not at all surprised.
The entire Vance vibe was slimy used car salesman but that works on a lot of people I guess? I'm still unconvinced anyone who actually tuned in was going to be swayed even a bit based on last night, as much as I would have loved Walz absolutely devastating that dangerous piece of shit.
Is that their actual policy? What federal land is there where people actually want to live? I guess in ski towns you could obliterate national parks and forest but I don't think that's what they mean.
Is this going to be like those modern city things they did in china for a bit a few decades ago where they would just build a ton of apartment buildings and houses somewhere in the middle of nowhere and were shocked people didn’t move in.
“Oh shit there’s a bunch of federal land in between Las Vegas and Reno no one is using, lets build skyscrapers there to help housing prices!”
Is that their actual policy? What federal land is there where people actually want to live? I guess in ski towns you could obliterate national parks and forest but I don't think that's what they mean.
Is this going to be like those modern city things they did in china for a bit a few decades ago where they would just build a ton of apartment buildings and houses somewhere in the middle of nowhere and were shocked people didn’t move in.
“Oh shit there’s a bunch of federal land in between Las Vegas and Reno no one is using, lets build skyscrapers there to help housing prices!”
Is that their actual policy? What federal land is there where people actually want to live? I guess in ski towns you could obliterate national parks and forest but I don't think that's what they mean.
Is this going to be like those modern city things they did in china for a bit a few decades ago where they would just build a ton of apartment buildings and houses somewhere in the middle of nowhere and were shocked people didn’t move in.
“Oh shit there’s a bunch of federal land in between Las Vegas and Reno no one is using, lets build skyscrapers there to help housing prices!”
Except China built them in places people wanted to live, and people did move into them. Western reporters just came by while they were still being built and then shocked Pikachu face that people weren't living in an active construction site
Snap polls have it basically even (1 point margin to Vance because we're idiots), both candidates improved their favorability a lot. -22 to -3 for Vance, +14 to +37 for Walz.
The undecided voter focus groups are very, very small but preferred Walz, especially because Vance fucked up the J6 question.
It's sobering to me to realize while it's absolutely insane to me that Vances popularity would increase at all, let alone by that much, the "good news" for him is that he went from being disliked by the vast majority of people to just the majority of people.
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Posts
I imagine that debate is currently being had internally.
I'm on the same page at the moment which is wild to agree with you on something!
I guess its true that a draw is a win for the loser but I think Vance is the one who needed to change the narrative the most. I don't see the debate doing that. I doubt his favorable numbers are going up by any notable degree.
ahem
excuse me
as the resident "everything in my life ends up being a reference to West Wing instead of The Simpsons" person
nope.
I don't want Uncle Fluffy. I want the person with the Eskimo poetry talking about federal aid and how 'unfunded mandate' is 2 words, not 1.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
This is just going to vanish into the aether is the thing. The Trump supporters want Trump, not a guy who sounds like a pantomime of every "reasonable Republican" they already rejected to go all in on Trump.
But to be fair I don't understand the mind of the undecided voter at all: but between not and November there's essentially this, and then every insane thing Trump will say publicly which will eclipse this.
There's no such thing as an "undecided voter". What we have are uninterested voters completely disengaged from politics as a whole, and weak partisans who are aligned but also disconnected.
I don't have the liver to watch please tell me he didn't actually say this.
oh, oh Vance did indeed.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
"Vance: The rules were you guys weren't going to fact check" after the moderators pointed out that Haitian immigrants Vance keeps calling illegal aliens do in fact have legal status.
Kamala's media team already beat you to the punch.
"um, we are the moderators."
"how DARE you!"
And Vance actually walked face first into that rake.
There were a lot of horrible bullshit framing of questions. One that stood out is asking Walz of he would concede the point that ACA enrollment did in fact grow under Trump
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1841289985279869251
Stammering complaint and then petulant bitching.
E:
Replaced with longer clip of him arguing with and over the moderators.
Can we have it back, please?
Clip here
https://x.com/kelsientaggart/status/1841329611407241440
at this point, I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see the media reporting with a straight face,
"Trump presents bold 'final solution' to immigration, housing crisis"
Harris gonna be pissed that Trump was copying off her notes
Yes, that was Vance's suggestion. They'll just make houses on land. Never mind that a shit-ton of that land isn't being used because it's in the middle of nowhere or on mountain tops or in the middle of forests or the like and nowhere near actual cities or places people want to live, nor to mention all the environmental concerns. They'll just... make houses on... land. Somewhere.
Or people like the idea of mass deportations (which like 27% of Harris supporters support), and so we go down the road of fascist madness in a couple of months
I did like how the moderator managed to make it sound like "Thank you for man-splaining the law to us".
They should have just cut his mic instantly.
IT'S PIZZA TIME!
The undecided voter focus groups are very, very small but preferred Walz, especially because Vance fucked up the J6 question.
In all seriousness he told some fucking whoppers
I hate Vance so much. Sitting there calling Haitians illegals, even when they’re legal, which is basically saying “every brown immigrant is illegal”. Just utterly sure none of this will hurt his own family. His soul is hideous
Walz didn’t impress me much, he didn’t seem charming which is meant to be his talent.
Putting the fact-checking on the candidates didn’t work. Walz can’t live fact-check, he isn’t allowed to google. It just let Vance lie his ass off.
I hate it but I'm not at all surprised.
The entire Vance vibe was slimy used car salesman but that works on a lot of people I guess? I'm still unconvinced anyone who actually tuned in was going to be swayed even a bit based on last night, as much as I would have loved Walz absolutely devastating that dangerous piece of shit.
Is this going to be like those modern city things they did in china for a bit a few decades ago where they would just build a ton of apartment buildings and houses somewhere in the middle of nowhere and were shocked people didn’t move in.
“Oh shit there’s a bunch of federal land in between Las Vegas and Reno no one is using, lets build skyscrapers there to help housing prices!”
Call it Galt's Gulch and watch the money roll in.
Do not engage the Watermelons.
Except China built them in places people wanted to live, and people did move into them. Western reporters just came by while they were still being built and then shocked Pikachu face that people weren't living in an active construction site
It's sobering to me to realize while it's absolutely insane to me that Vances popularity would increase at all, let alone by that much, the "good news" for him is that he went from being disliked by the vast majority of people to just the majority of people.