Screenshotting isn't exactly difficult. Snipping tool, Ctrl v.
I don't understand why we're voting for some things but not this I suppose?
This could probably be covered in one or more upcoming votes. There's a lot of focus on voting on as few things as possible since it will absolutely end up too many, and so it's very unlikely we would hold a vote on any particular topic that came up in water cooler, as its own vote.
0
QuetziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User, Moderatormod
Screenshotting isn't exactly difficult. Snipping tool, Ctrl v.
I don't understand why we're voting for some things but not this I suppose?
honestly it feels like people are only arguing it because they don't like that Lanz uses twitter and posts a lot of twitter embeds. I've never seen anyone in chat, on topic forums, or elsewhere here catch flack for twitter embeds, aside from like the first three months after Space Karen bought the place and it was breaking constantly, people got kinda annoyed then.
I guess just the "don't support the nazi bar" argument hasn't seemed to be an issue until now, at least to me, and it feels like it's being used as a punishment for users here rather than a mission statement in the CoC
Personally I salted and deleted my twitter a while ago. This hasn't stopped a lot of sources i trust from continuing to share twitter links. It's slowing down and becoming a mix of bsky links but it's not all there yet. the big non-nazi issue is elon locking context visibility to logged in accounts. Not being able to see a thread or replies makes it basically unusable for people without an account. That's probably already covered in the general calls for context in posts, but like dropping thread post 8/11 because it has a sick takedown of [issue] is now functionally useless because we can never see the other 10
AS A HEADS UP ABOUT THIS
If you use Xcancel, you can at least get a whole thread again
Mind you Xcancel will also throw a verification screen at you to filter out bots
But you can view a full thread again without being logged in
also if you click a quote tweet it’ll load a new Xcancel page for that, so you can go further into the context [in that case the tweet from The Nation]
EDIT: one second thought that was a thread, finding a better example
EDIT: here we go I’ll use the Remes tweets I posted earlier in the Tanuki Current Events monitor about the shit they’re pulling at NIH and shit:
Screenshotting isn't exactly difficult. Snipping tool, Ctrl v.
I don't understand why we're voting for some things but not this I suppose?
I'm usually on my phone, so it's more screenshot gesture, go crop out any identifying details, resize, upload to forums.
Also quote the text in case someone doesn't have the available data or bandwidth to download the full image, attribute the quoted text, and probably end up linking the source anyway as a courtesy in case people want to follow it back to the source.
Screenshotting isn't exactly difficult. Snipping tool, Ctrl v.
I don't understand why we're voting for some things but not this I suppose?
honestly it feels like people are only arguing it because they don't like that Lanz uses twitter and posts a lot of twitter embeds. I've never seen anyone in chat, on topic forums, or elsewhere here catch flack for twitter embeds, aside from like the first three months after Space Karen bought the place and it was breaking constantly, people got kinda annoyed then.
I guess just the "don't support the nazi bar" argument hasn't seemed to be an issue until now, at least to me, and it feels like it's being used as a punishment for users here rather than a mission statement in the CoC
Just an opinion though.
People are arguing about it because it's suddenly a thing as of today/yesterday. Because of Musk's nazi salute and a bunch of other places on the internet deciding to ban twitter links and now it's a thing on the internet that everyone must have an opinion on.
Screenshotting isn't exactly difficult. Snipping tool, Ctrl v.
I don't understand why we're voting for some things but not this I suppose?
I'm usually on my phone, so it's more screenshot gesture, go crop out any identifying details, resize, upload to forums.
Also quote the text in case someone doesn't have the available data or bandwidth to download the full image, attribute the quoted text, and probably end up linking the source anyway as a courtesy in case people want to follow it back to the source.
That is nice on Bluesky as they have a button that does that for you
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I mean if there's going to be a feature where you can toggle Xitter embeds on or off for you personally, this seems like a solved issue.
+15
QuetziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User, Moderatormod
The Nazi bar thing is an interesting bit of punk history but has never been as broadly analogous as it gets used, and betrays a distinct lack of context of what punk bars and communities were at the time and are today from many of the people who attempt to use it as an analogy.
Screenshotting isn't exactly difficult. Snipping tool, Ctrl v.
I don't understand why we're voting for some things but not this I suppose?
I post on mobile and it is obnoxious to screenshot and crop and upload. I am not going to do that.
Just use the new feature to block the embeds and move on.
Edit: I also no longer have a twitter but I ain’t doing that with like, Bluesky posts either.
Blocking the embeds just cuts you off from people talking about it unless they're quoting or screenshotting too, in which case you don't need the embed.
And I get that there's more important things to to deal with but delzhand saying they're not going to do it seems like a "there won't be a vote, I have decided" kind of thing and not a "maybe we'll vote on that later down the line" kind of thing.
Screenshotting isn't exactly difficult. Snipping tool, Ctrl v.
I don't understand why we're voting for some things but not this I suppose?
honestly it feels like people are only arguing it because they don't like that Lanz uses twitter and posts a lot of twitter embeds. I've never seen anyone in chat, on topic forums, or elsewhere here catch flack for twitter embeds, aside from like the first three months after Space Karen bought the place and it was breaking constantly, people got kinda annoyed then.
I guess just the "don't support the nazi bar" argument hasn't seemed to be an issue until now, at least to me, and it feels like it's being used as a punishment for users here rather than a mission statement in the CoC
Just an opinion though.
People are arguing about it because it's suddenly a thing as of today/yesterday. Because of Musk's nazi salute and a bunch of other places on the internet deciding to ban twitter links and now it's a thing on the internet that everyone must have an opinion on.
Nah, banning Twitter or putting arbitrary rules on links to Twitter has definitely been a point of contention around here long before the election.
The results of the election have definitely made it a more prevalent issue, but let's not pretend it's a new discussion just because it's happening in a new venue.
[IMG][/img]
+2
Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User, Transition Teamregular
I don't understand why we're voting for some things but not this I suppose?
While I champion democracy (as a Civics teacher, I'd certainly hope so!), there are challenges in putting every single decision up to a community vote.
We got maybe a third of the forum community to vote on the structure of Coin Return, how many folks do you think are going to cast a vote for this??
Ultimately, through a combination of our upcoming deadline and the nature of building a collaborative project, there are some things which have to be pushed forward without a vote, as we don't have the time table to field a week-long election over every issue.
Screenshotting isn't exactly difficult. Snipping tool, Ctrl v.
I don't understand why we're voting for some things but not this I suppose?
I post on mobile and it is obnoxious to screenshot and crop and upload. I am not going to do that.
Just use the new feature to block the embeds and move on.
Edit: I also no longer have a twitter but I ain’t doing that with like, Bluesky posts either.
Blocking the embeds just cuts you off from people talking about it unless they're quoting or screenshotting too, in which case you don't need the embed.
And I get that there's more important things to to deal with but delzhand saying they're not going to do it seems like a "there won't be a vote, I have decided" kind of thing and not a "maybe we'll vote on that later down the line" kind of thing.
A vote seems pointless when there is a forum option to turn embeds off. So everybody can decide for themselves if they want to see the embeds or not which is even better than Democracy.
Screenshotting isn't exactly difficult. Snipping tool, Ctrl v.
I don't understand why we're voting for some things but not this I suppose?
honestly it feels like people are only arguing it because they don't like that Lanz uses twitter and posts a lot of twitter embeds. I've never seen anyone in chat, on topic forums, or elsewhere here catch flack for twitter embeds, aside from like the first three months after Space Karen bought the place and it was breaking constantly, people got kinda annoyed then.
I guess just the "don't support the nazi bar" argument hasn't seemed to be an issue until now, at least to me, and it feels like it's being used as a punishment for users here rather than a mission statement in the CoC
Just an opinion though.
People are arguing about it because it's suddenly a thing as of today/yesterday. Because of Musk's nazi salute and a bunch of other places on the internet deciding to ban twitter links and now it's a thing on the internet that everyone must have an opinion on.
Lanz using twitter is immaterial for the whole thing to me, I've stopped using a ton of things as of lately because I don't want to even tacitly support those folks. I have had the same complaint for years. I also hate rich media embeds as a general rule, they are awful and break things constantly.
Is it performative? Maybe I guess. I'm still trying my best to not give them my data or business willingly if I can help it. I do wish there were better alternatives to things like youtube or traditional media.
A toggle for enable/disable rich media/embeds on a per site basis is good enough to me honestly.
I personally fucking hate auto-embeds regardless of their source and am very excited that Delz is looking into a granular hide-embed feature.
If I don't want to click on a thing, I won't click on it. If I lose context to part of a conversation cause I made that choice - I have other choices I could make like asking someone to give some more context about the contents if they're up for it. Or I could just move the heck on if I'm not interested in what it says.
Separately, forcing everyone to post pictures just increases our hosting burden which is a huge pain in the ass.
Screenshotting isn't exactly difficult. Snipping tool, Ctrl v.
I don't understand why we're voting for some things but not this I suppose?
honestly it feels like people are only arguing it because they don't like that Lanz uses twitter and posts a lot of twitter embeds. I've never seen anyone in chat, on topic forums, or elsewhere here catch flack for twitter embeds, aside from like the first three months after Space Karen bought the place and it was breaking constantly, people got kinda annoyed then.
I guess just the "don't support the nazi bar" argument hasn't seemed to be an issue until now, at least to me, and it feels like it's being used as a punishment for users here rather than a mission statement in the CoC
Just an opinion though.
People are arguing about it because it's suddenly a thing as of today/yesterday. Because of Musk's nazi salute and a bunch of other places on the internet deciding to ban twitter links and now it's a thing on the internet that everyone must have an opinion on.
Nah, banning Twitter or putting arbitrary rules on links to Twitter has definitely been a point of contention around here long before the election.
The results of the election have definitely made it a more prevalent issue, but let's not pretend it's a new discussion just because it's happening in a new venue.
Tons of big reddits have done it just in the past like 24 hours or something. This is a thing that's taken off just in the past day or two. Yeah, people talked about it sporadically before but it's a whole thing right now across the internet.
Twitter is the best source of news from reputable sources right now. It sucks, but it's a fact and keeping track of all the dumb shit that the new administration does is best done on there. Googling stuff doesn't work, and I'm not going to refresh every different news site to see new headlines.
And as much as not reading the article is a problem, at least twitter gives you some context along with the link in case an article is paywalled.
Twitter is the best source of news from reputable sources right now. It sucks, but it's a fact and keeping track of all the dumb shit that the new administration does is best done on there. Googling stuff doesn't work, and I'm not going to refresh every different news site to see new headlines.
And as much as not reading the article is a problem, at least twitter gives you some context along with the link in case an article is paywalled.
Bluesky is slowly becoming a duplicate for it but it's still not 1:1.
Alrighty, this is not the Twitter advocacy/ban thread, folks. There are threads in SE++ AND D&D for this discussion, and the points being raised here largely parrot the same points in those threads from the exact same people, so you all just figured out a new place to fight about it, I guess. The Transition Team has already decided on a tentative plan in terms of embedded media to create toggles for turning on/off embeds on an individual basis.
I know that Reddit right now is going through a cultural shift where they are banning Twitter links (because of the whole Elon Musk sitch), so this is on the forefront of a lot of people's minds... but talk about it somewhere else, not here.
I think in general Democratic solutions to forum technology features are best. Having the forum itself take a specific standpoint on an issue through its administrative features has historically resulted in needless strife. People can work things out with people, and that's where the basis of cultural change should start.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Okay, then to glance at something else... did I miss/forget something, or didn't we determine (back when it was being considered) that image hosting was a massive chunk of the database? And thus presumably the costs imposed on the forums?
So hearing that the new forums will also host images is kind of surprising. Unlikely to be an issue short term, but if CoRe survives for years or even decades, it could be another challenge to deal with.
Will there be an expectation that things are automatically pruned after X years, annoying as it can be to have threads lose context in doing so? Or is this something that is still being sorted out?
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Seems like it would be an easy thing to toggle pending funding considerations
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Okay, then to glance at something else... did I miss/forget something, or didn't we determine (back when it was being considered) that image hosting was a massive chunk of the database? And thus presumably the costs imposed on the forums?
So hearing that the new forums will also host images is kind of surprising. Unlikely to be an issue short term, but if CoRe survives for years or even decades, it could be another challenge to deal with.
Will there be an expectation that things are automatically pruned after X years, annoying as it can be to have threads lose context in doing so? Or is this something that is still being sorted out?
I was taken aback as well. I found documentation about enabling S3 on xenforo, but when I actually started trying to implement it it became clear that the instructions weren't going to work for the cloud version. So I sent a support ticket, and the response confirmed that.
So we'll have to homebrew support for S3. I would very much prefer to do that than have a rolling cutoff. For one, the first thing that would get nuked is the earliest adopter's avatars, so... yeah.
So we'll have to homebrew support for S3. I would very much prefer to do that than have a rolling cutoff. For one, the first thing that would get nuked is the earliest adopter's avatars, so... yeah.
Okay, then to glance at something else... did I miss/forget something, or didn't we determine (back when it was being considered) that image hosting was a massive chunk of the database? And thus presumably the costs imposed on the forums?
So hearing that the new forums will also host images is kind of surprising. Unlikely to be an issue short term, but if CoRe survives for years or even decades, it could be another challenge to deal with.
Will there be an expectation that things are automatically pruned after X years, annoying as it can be to have threads lose context in doing so? Or is this something that is still being sorted out?
I was taken aback as well. I found documentation about enabling S3 on xenforo, but when I actually started trying to implement it it became clear that the instructions weren't going to work for the cloud version. So I sent a support ticket, and the response confirmed that.
So we'll have to homebrew support for S3. I would very much prefer to do that than have a rolling cutoff. For one, the first thing that would get nuked is the earliest adopter's avatars, so... yeah.
It would probably be the best route.
Should probably be a small base amount for each person. The person should be able to personally manage and can delete uploads from whatever control panel is given for it, and then maybe sell higher tiers based on size/bandwidth. I don't know if you'll be able to sell "at cost" because S3 has egress costs associated with it too I think? Never know if that 20 mb gif is going to go viral or if someone shares it in a discord with a hundred users (that last one can be mostly prevented I think).
I don't know if Coin Return the business can do what Penny-Arcade the business did with this unhinged allow all of the uploads business. I'm flabbergasted that they went for this approach!
Not weighing in specifically on the Twitter thing or a vote if we're going to allow embeds or not.
The Governance Committee currently has a 'todo' item to create a process where the Coin Return Community can initiate votes / petitions on topics like this rather than just complain until / hoping the Board calls for a vote. There are other items that are higher priorities and with the number of decisions between now and going live I would not expect any of those sorts of petitions to happen until we're in our new place.
However, I do picture a question like 'do we allow rich Twitter embeds / direct links or not' to be the sort of item that could be proposed and with enough support go to a community vote to determine if this will become a rule or not.
I think that by having this formal process where a proposal can get made and people can endorse it going to a vote will help to lower the temperature of these discussions so people feel less like they have to make a bunch of noise before an issue they are concerned about will get attention, and putting it to a vote will address some of the back and forth in the threads about these topics.
Yeah I hear of other communities putting things like this to a straight vote. I'd be game, whatever the outcome.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
0
QuetziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User, Moderatormod
I think voting on it in the future could be a good idea, but I'd like to save it until after we have the new forum fully stood up, especially as we have planned features which would allow people to disable embeds and may change the experience for some folks.
I personally fucking hate auto-embeds regardless of their source and am very excited that Delz is looking into a granular hide-embed feature.
If I don't want to click on a thing, I won't click on it. If I lose context to part of a conversation cause I made that choice - I have other choices I could make like asking someone to give some more context about the contents if they're up for it. Or I could just move the heck on if I'm not interested in what it says.
Separately, forcing everyone to post pictures just increases our hosting burden which is a huge pain in the ass.
I've been blocking all of them except youtube via noscript forever
I'm unsure that per-user embed disabling is a good idea, because I see the conversation going like this:
User A: *posts tweet embed*
User B: "I have embeds disabled, can you screenshot?"
Effectively leading to a soft policy of screenshots only, but with added confusion. Screenshotting actually isn't any better than embedding though - neither one of them create ad revenue for Twitter. But screenshots have no verification of authenticity, and no way to check who the poster even is, which has been a problem here in the past.
I like the idea of a vote on whether to just disallow Twitter links. Otherwise I fear we'll be arguing about it forever.
I'm unsure that per-user embed disabling is a good idea, because I see the conversation going like this:
User A: *posts tweet embed*
User B: "I have embeds disabled, can you screenshot?"
Effectively leading to a soft policy of screenshots only, but with added confusion. Screenshotting actually isn't any better than embedding though - neither one of them create ad revenue for Twitter. But screenshots have no verification of authenticity, and no way to check who the poster even is, which has been a problem here in the past.
I like the idea of a vote on whether to just disallow Twitter links. Otherwise I fear we'll be arguing about it forever.
D&D already has rules to quote and source tweets for exactly these reasons
The d&d rule was mostly cause it can be hard to know at a glance whether a tweet is someone worth reading or just some rando/bot, and in lining them on another site strips tweets of a lot of their context
Some rule that prevents formatting from needing to be relitigated every thread is good though
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
0
augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
I'm not saying we should ban Twitter or not, but there is one problem with Twitter screenshots that I've noticed in threads dedicated to political campaigns or current events that I'd like to keep in mind.
Screenshots are even harder to fact-check in real time that actual Tweets. First, the screenshot might just be a photoshop. If the Tweet did in fact exist at one time but has been deleted, an embed at least leads to a notice of deletion. If a Tweet is real and exists but is misinformation, one can follow an embed link and see the replies calling it out as misinformation.
The only way to fact-check a Twitter screenshot is to have a Twitter account (so you can actually view a profile's Tweets in chronological order) and then trawl through them. If the Tweet did exist but was deleted, there's no immediate way to know that.
Again, I don't have a strong opinion about banning Twitter, but additional rules might be needed to keep news threads with Twitter screenshots from turning into misinformation trash fires.
I'm unsure that per-user embed disabling is a good idea, because I see the conversation going like this:
User A: *posts tweet embed*
User B: "I have embeds disabled, can you screenshot?"
Effectively leading to a soft policy of screenshots only, but with added confusion. Screenshotting actually isn't any better than embedding though - neither one of them create ad revenue for Twitter. But screenshots have no verification of authenticity, and no way to check who the poster even is, which has been a problem here in the past.
I like the idea of a vote on whether to just disallow Twitter links. Otherwise I fear we'll be arguing about it forever.
People aren't obligated to offer a screenshot. It would be nice I suppose, but it would be a required response.
To be clear I hate Twitter. I hated it from the moment I learned it was a thing. Same as Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, and anything else you could name. I don't see the value in banning them, and I think voting on it just risks the tyranny of the majority. You can scroll past them if it is a problem. It might throw off flow but it is no different than ignoring a user. If it feels vital to the conversation ya just gotta weigh you hatred over desire to talk about it.
That said I am hoping I can turn off all embeds. I hate them so much.
This is independent of any Twitter-specific issues, and I don't care if people include links / rich embeds or not in addition, but I'm definitely a fan of requiring either a screenshot or a description / quote of what was said in topical threads or serious discussions as D&D rules require now.
This has been very nice in D&D when the external sites have or put up pay or login walls, which without the rule to quote the relevant section and source would make it difficult for a good chunk of the thread to follow along what points a person is actually trying to make. Also the whole 'why should anyone care what this person has to say' when someone is referencing maybe a lesser known blogger or a journalist posting independently helps to get context for what's being presented.
Add to that tere's no guarantee that any external site is going to remain up and available - look how much external content was hosted on Photobucket - and without that added context and information regular link rot will render old posts and conversation meaningless.
My feeling is, if you turned off embeds, and then go “hey can you screenshot that [insert social media post] for me” you have literally created your own problem.
If you have chosen to turn off embeds, then click through, that was the decision you made for yourself.
Now if shit is just breaking, that’s a different story and just polite and practical both. But no one is obligated to give oyu a weird reimplementation of the feature you have elected to turn off when shit is working
Posts
This could probably be covered in one or more upcoming votes. There's a lot of focus on voting on as few things as possible since it will absolutely end up too many, and so it's very unlikely we would hold a vote on any particular topic that came up in water cooler, as its own vote.
I'm usually on my phone, so it's more screenshot gesture, go crop out any identifying details, resize, upload to forums.
Not that much work, but definitely more work than copying and pasting a link.
honestly it feels like people are only arguing it because they don't like that Lanz uses twitter and posts a lot of twitter embeds. I've never seen anyone in chat, on topic forums, or elsewhere here catch flack for twitter embeds, aside from like the first three months after Space Karen bought the place and it was breaking constantly, people got kinda annoyed then.
I guess just the "don't support the nazi bar" argument hasn't seemed to be an issue until now, at least to me, and it feels like it's being used as a punishment for users here rather than a mission statement in the CoC
Just an opinion though.
AS A HEADS UP ABOUT THIS
If you use Xcancel, you can at least get a whole thread again
Mind you Xcancel will also throw a verification screen at you to filter out bots
But you can view a full thread again without being logged in
For example:
https://xcancel.com/jacremes/status/1882419603336515772?s=46
also if you click a quote tweet it’ll load a new Xcancel page for that, so you can go further into the context [in that case the tweet from The Nation]
EDIT: one second thought that was a thread, finding a better example
EDIT: here we go I’ll use the Remes tweets I posted earlier in the Tanuki Current Events monitor about the shit they’re pulling at NIH and shit:
https://xcancel.com/jacremes/status/1882422058732212642?s=46
Also quote the text in case someone doesn't have the available data or bandwidth to download the full image, attribute the quoted text, and probably end up linking the source anyway as a courtesy in case people want to follow it back to the source.
People are arguing about it because it's suddenly a thing as of today/yesterday. Because of Musk's nazi salute and a bunch of other places on the internet deciding to ban twitter links and now it's a thing on the internet that everyone must have an opinion on.
That is nice on Bluesky as they have a button that does that for you
{Bluesky Account }{Writing and Story Blog}
Blocking the embeds just cuts you off from people talking about it unless they're quoting or screenshotting too, in which case you don't need the embed.
And I get that there's more important things to to deal with but delzhand saying they're not going to do it seems like a "there won't be a vote, I have decided" kind of thing and not a "maybe we'll vote on that later down the line" kind of thing.
Nah, banning Twitter or putting arbitrary rules on links to Twitter has definitely been a point of contention around here long before the election.
The results of the election have definitely made it a more prevalent issue, but let's not pretend it's a new discussion just because it's happening in a new venue.
We got maybe a third of the forum community to vote on the structure of Coin Return, how many folks do you think are going to cast a vote for this??
Ultimately, through a combination of our upcoming deadline and the nature of building a collaborative project, there are some things which have to be pushed forward without a vote, as we don't have the time table to field a week-long election over every issue.
You also, you know, can’t screenshot a full ass fuckin’ video of news shit happening around the world.
A vote seems pointless when there is a forum option to turn embeds off. So everybody can decide for themselves if they want to see the embeds or not which is even better than Democracy.
{Bluesky Account }{Writing and Story Blog}
Lanz using twitter is immaterial for the whole thing to me, I've stopped using a ton of things as of lately because I don't want to even tacitly support those folks. I have had the same complaint for years. I also hate rich media embeds as a general rule, they are awful and break things constantly.
Is it performative? Maybe I guess. I'm still trying my best to not give them my data or business willingly if I can help it. I do wish there were better alternatives to things like youtube or traditional media.
A toggle for enable/disable rich media/embeds on a per site basis is good enough to me honestly.
If I don't want to click on a thing, I won't click on it. If I lose context to part of a conversation cause I made that choice - I have other choices I could make like asking someone to give some more context about the contents if they're up for it. Or I could just move the heck on if I'm not interested in what it says.
Separately, forcing everyone to post pictures just increases our hosting burden which is a huge pain in the ass.
Tons of big reddits have done it just in the past like 24 hours or something. This is a thing that's taken off just in the past day or two. Yeah, people talked about it sporadically before but it's a whole thing right now across the internet.
And as much as not reading the article is a problem, at least twitter gives you some context along with the link in case an article is paywalled.
{Bluesky Account }{Writing and Story Blog}
Bluesky is slowly becoming a duplicate for it but it's still not 1:1.
I know that Reddit right now is going through a cultural shift where they are banning Twitter links (because of the whole Elon Musk sitch), so this is on the forefront of a lot of people's minds... but talk about it somewhere else, not here.
MHWilds ID: JF9LL8L3
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
So hearing that the new forums will also host images is kind of surprising. Unlikely to be an issue short term, but if CoRe survives for years or even decades, it could be another challenge to deal with.
Will there be an expectation that things are automatically pruned after X years, annoying as it can be to have threads lose context in doing so? Or is this something that is still being sorted out?
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I was taken aback as well. I found documentation about enabling S3 on xenforo, but when I actually started trying to implement it it became clear that the instructions weren't going to work for the cloud version. So I sent a support ticket, and the response confirmed that.
So we'll have to homebrew support for S3. I would very much prefer to do that than have a rolling cutoff. For one, the first thing that would get nuked is the earliest adopter's avatars, so... yeah.
MHWilds ID: JF9LL8L3
It would probably be the best route.
Should probably be a small base amount for each person. The person should be able to personally manage and can delete uploads from whatever control panel is given for it, and then maybe sell higher tiers based on size/bandwidth. I don't know if you'll be able to sell "at cost" because S3 has egress costs associated with it too I think? Never know if that 20 mb gif is going to go viral or if someone shares it in a discord with a hundred users (that last one can be mostly prevented I think).
I don't know if Coin Return the business can do what Penny-Arcade the business did with this unhinged allow all of the uploads business. I'm flabbergasted that they went for this approach!
The Governance Committee currently has a 'todo' item to create a process where the Coin Return Community can initiate votes / petitions on topics like this rather than just complain until / hoping the Board calls for a vote. There are other items that are higher priorities and with the number of decisions between now and going live I would not expect any of those sorts of petitions to happen until we're in our new place.
However, I do picture a question like 'do we allow rich Twitter embeds / direct links or not' to be the sort of item that could be proposed and with enough support go to a community vote to determine if this will become a rule or not.
I think that by having this formal process where a proposal can get made and people can endorse it going to a vote will help to lower the temperature of these discussions so people feel less like they have to make a bunch of noise before an issue they are concerned about will get attention, and putting it to a vote will address some of the back and forth in the threads about these topics.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I've been blocking all of them except youtube via noscript forever
User A: *posts tweet embed*
User B: "I have embeds disabled, can you screenshot?"
Effectively leading to a soft policy of screenshots only, but with added confusion. Screenshotting actually isn't any better than embedding though - neither one of them create ad revenue for Twitter. But screenshots have no verification of authenticity, and no way to check who the poster even is, which has been a problem here in the past.
I like the idea of a vote on whether to just disallow Twitter links. Otherwise I fear we'll be arguing about it forever.
D&D already has rules to quote and source tweets for exactly these reasons
Some rule that prevents formatting from needing to be relitigated every thread is good though
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Screenshots are even harder to fact-check in real time that actual Tweets. First, the screenshot might just be a photoshop. If the Tweet did in fact exist at one time but has been deleted, an embed at least leads to a notice of deletion. If a Tweet is real and exists but is misinformation, one can follow an embed link and see the replies calling it out as misinformation.
The only way to fact-check a Twitter screenshot is to have a Twitter account (so you can actually view a profile's Tweets in chronological order) and then trawl through them. If the Tweet did exist but was deleted, there's no immediate way to know that.
Again, I don't have a strong opinion about banning Twitter, but additional rules might be needed to keep news threads with Twitter screenshots from turning into misinformation trash fires.
People aren't obligated to offer a screenshot. It would be nice I suppose, but it would be a required response.
To be clear I hate Twitter. I hated it from the moment I learned it was a thing. Same as Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, and anything else you could name. I don't see the value in banning them, and I think voting on it just risks the tyranny of the majority. You can scroll past them if it is a problem. It might throw off flow but it is no different than ignoring a user. If it feels vital to the conversation ya just gotta weigh you hatred over desire to talk about it.
That said I am hoping I can turn off all embeds. I hate them so much.
This has been very nice in D&D when the external sites have or put up pay or login walls, which without the rule to quote the relevant section and source would make it difficult for a good chunk of the thread to follow along what points a person is actually trying to make. Also the whole 'why should anyone care what this person has to say' when someone is referencing maybe a lesser known blogger or a journalist posting independently helps to get context for what's being presented.
Add to that tere's no guarantee that any external site is going to remain up and available - look how much external content was hosted on Photobucket - and without that added context and information regular link rot will render old posts and conversation meaningless.
If you have chosen to turn off embeds, then click through, that was the decision you made for yourself.
Now if shit is just breaking, that’s a different story and just polite and practical both. But no one is obligated to give oyu a weird reimplementation of the feature you have elected to turn off when shit is working