Say something man about me

MaydayMayday Cutting edge goblin techRegistered User regular
Over time I've completely lost what it means to be a man. Every "manly" quality I could agree on - I'd appreciate in a woman too.
Sure, I may have a beard and I'm trying to grow some muscle, but that seems... superficial. I'm ok with my role as a husband and dad, but I'm wondering if any of you actually get any comfort from your gender roles (and what they are to you) or is everyone moving in the same direction of ignoring that.

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Posts

  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    I enjoy male privilege, does that count?

    Walking with headphones in, only having my competency questioned when I'm actively being incompetent, that kind of thing

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
  • VixxVixx Valkyrie: prepared! Registered User regular
    oh gosh do I have a recent rant on discord that I could edit to post in here but I don’t know how well received it would be

    about the importance of male role models and suchlike

    6cd6kllpmhb0.jpeg
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    Honestly, I think I take effeminate traits as being more complimentary at this point.

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  • MaydayMayday Cutting edge goblin tech Registered User regular
    Vixx wrote: »
    oh gosh do I have a recent rant on discord that I could edit to post in here but I don’t know how well received it would be

    about the importance of male role models and suchlike

    Fuck the haters

  • VixxVixx Valkyrie: prepared! Registered User regular
    edited December 2024
    Positive masculinity is a thing! It doesn’t mean its traits are exclusive to men, it just means they embody what is masculine. And any trait taken to extremes can be inherent negatives. It’s why it’s probably more useful to think of this in terms of role models instead of traits, because there are lots of different ways to be, but imma still think on what ways of being are typically associated with non-toxic masculinity.

    To me, when I think of positive masculinity, what comes to mind is:
    - reliability/dependability
    - integrity/honor/trustworthiness
    - accountability/responsibility
    - protectiveness (as a shield mostly but also a sword when needed)
    - consistency/constancy
    - stability, steadiness
    - dignity
    - pursuer of knowledge (curiosity, exploratory)
    - ingenuity/innovation
    - goal-orientedness
    - warmth
    - loyalty
    - self-awareness
    - self-assuredness (the good version)
    - introspection
    - humility in achievement
    - actions over words
    - bravery/courage
    - mentorship

    I mean feel free to disagree but I more or less described my husband and some of our closest friends so…

    Vixx on
    6cd6kllpmhb0.jpeg
  • VixxVixx Valkyrie: prepared! Registered User regular
    Mayday wrote: »
    Vixx wrote: »
    oh gosh do I have a recent rant on discord that I could edit to post in here but I don’t know how well received it would be

    about the importance of male role models and suchlike

    Fuck the haters

    Screenshots seem gauche so I’ll go and find what I wrote and see if I can translate them into something that fits this setting

    6cd6kllpmhb0.jpeg
  • VixxVixx Valkyrie: prepared! Registered User regular
    When it comes to discussions about positive male role models and what these might look like beyond that of a custodial male parent, the fundamental conclusion to be drawn is that it is, in fact, yes all men.

    Whether you are a dad, husband, uncle, brother, nephew, friend, colleague, or even an online connection, we need all men to step up and show everyone what it means to be a good man.

    Everyone has a role to play in modeling, talking about, and promoting positive masculinity while shutting down toxic masculinity. Whether you’re an influencer with millions of followers or just a dude picking his kids up from school.

    Just existing and moving through the world to be observed by younger men and women you don’t even know contributes to this. Be a walking green flag all the time and demand your bros do the same. Online and off, regardless of connection, even if you’re not sure anyone is watching.

    Don’t forget also that girls benefit from seeing positive male role models, too, in the wild as well as in their own lives. If they get to see and learn and understand what good and safe relationships and interactions with men look like, it can assist in inoculating them from seeking relationships with toxic men.

    6cd6kllpmhb0.jpeg
  • VixxVixx Valkyrie: prepared! Registered User regular
    Essentially if you’re “one of the good ones”, you’re not just taking your cookie and eating it quietly in the corner. You are living it every day and also shutting the toxic shit down when you see it, especially when women aren’t even in the room.

    It’s arguably when we women aren’t in the room that we need men to stand on business the most. But unfortunately, many men will just go “oh it doesn’t matter cuz no woman heard that so no one is getting hurt” when it’s just the boys around and welllllll look it’s yes all men ok

    6cd6kllpmhb0.jpeg
  • AbdyAbdy Registered User regular
    I have to wrap gifts and I have to do it soon; thus, I am procrastinating.

    Anyway, there was a painting at work the other day that I liked, and it seems vaguely on topic

    lSGLab3.jpeg


    Manfulness, Angelshaug

    ftOqU21.png
  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    I wish I had been able to spend more time with my grandfathers when they were younger in full cognition of their value to me as role-models.

    Both of my grandfathers were gentle men in a time and place that didn’t necessarily value that, and faced adversity in their lives with quiet dignity and a sense of responsibility that kept them vigilant against making their problems and insecurities those of their families.

    My paternal grandfather was a poor farmer and mechanic who never had much, but gave all of it away at every chance. Despite growing up in the rural South, I never once heard him say a bigoted word against anyone. He raised two children on a single income, and when his brother’s wife died young of cancer, took in his brother’s three kids, too. He worked hard everyday and still died a pauper, but five-hundred people came to his funeral. Back when I still had contact with my family, older relatives were fond of telling me how much I reminded them of him in spirit, and I can think of no higher compliment.

    My maternal grandfather is still kicking in his nineties, still doing his thing, which is mostly loving the outdoors and experiencing the world. He still loves traveling and music and learning new things, but his true joy (outside my grandmother) has always been horticulture and botany; my whole life, no matter where he lived he installed a hothouse so he could raise his banana plants and orchids. And despite being a blue-collar Southerner, he always wanted my mom to have any and every opportunity she could ever want, their only conflict coming when he thought she wasn’t aspiring to her full potential.

    I got saddled with a real bad guy for a dad. A violent narcissistic bigot who went his whole life feeling cheated and angry, deeply insecure over his own perceived failings and shortcomings. He loathed both of these older men and frequently made it known, even to their face, and took every opportunity he could to run them down to my brother and I as kids; his own father, for being poor and unconcerned with wealth, and his father-in-law, for openly appreciating beauty and intellect and softness.

    Not that I could have done much about it as a child, but I do find myself wishing I had grown up in a home that appreciated the type of masculinity my grandfathers modeled, instead of it taking over two decades to see that truth for myself, well after one of them had already passed.

  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    I am a 39 year old cis man and to me, masculinity is about doing what you said you were going to do, bring reliable to your community, and genuinely looking out for the well being of the people around you. In that role, policing other men around you and calling out problematic behavior when it happens.

    I wish I had the confidence in my twenties that I have today because I am ashamed for not speaking up about my friends' behavior when I was younger.

    Or, to quote A Blast From the Past, "The short and simple definition of a lady or a gentleman is someone who always tries to make sure the people around him or her are as comfortable as possible."

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • CelloCello Registered User regular
    Dudes rock

    Steam
    3DS Friend Code: 0216-0898-6512
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  • MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    Dudes rock
    I find them most endearing,
    catch myself leering

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User, Transition Team regular
    edited December 2024
    @Mayday good thread. I think about this when I get a breath sometimes, because I'm 50 now with three grown kids and I'm not sure what it meant or what it means now either. Especially since Bel and I don't conform to the "traditional" bits sometimes... like, yesterday she was talking with one of the kids about the ranch truck's brakes, caught me staring bewildered, and asked me if I had any idea whatsoever about what they were discussing. I found myself going "sure, brakes have, you know, the squeezie bits? They... squeeze the one thing and the car slows down.... I think they have calipers... " and then she nodded and I went back into the kitchen to finish dinner.

    :)

    So we flip the script a lot. But still, what does that mean, and what's different about being a man vs being a person? Lots of the qualities I want to have are ones I admire in anybody, but I think we have to define ourselves within and against the culture in order to get at a good answer. American male culture has some features and we have "traditional" gender roles that we pick from or work with or just unthinkingly take on... I think what it means to be a man here in the US is to look at what being a man is mostly like across our society, and showcase the good parts while rejecting the bad ones. Toxic masculinity is bad because it's toxic, not because it's masculine. Being a man, for me, is about cutting away the rotten parts of male culture and showing how you can be masculine, as we define it, without being toxic. And it's about modeling that for younger generations, because they'll also have to define themselves within and against the culture so it's on me, us, to make that less poisonous to the extent we can manage it.

    spool32 on
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Why is any virtue supposedly masculine, as opposed to being a generic virtue that's good and admirable in any person? The entire exercise seems to be rhetorical -- we know that people care deeply about their gendered identity, that men largely care more about being a man correctly than being a human being correctly, so to make these virtues desirable we promote them as masculine

    And that's okay as a strategy to socialize ourselves, but ultimately aren't categories like "masculine" and "feminine" just empty containers?

  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    When you say man like this, I can't help but think about UK roadmen
    Real classic this one

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M_5oYU-IsU

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
  • HerrCronHerrCron It that wickedly supports taxation Registered User regular
    Woah, woah, woah - what's all this about there being cookies?

    Now Playing:
    Celeste [Switch] - She'll be wrestling with inner demons when she comes...
    Super Mario Wonder - Wowie Zowie!
  • SeñorAmorSeñorAmor !!! Registered User regular
    They don't call me SeñorAmor for nothin'.

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User, Transition Team regular
    edited December 2024
    Why is any virtue supposedly masculine, as opposed to being a generic virtue that's good and admirable in any person? The entire exercise seems to be rhetorical -- we know that people care deeply about their gendered identity, that men largely care more about being a man correctly than being a human being correctly, so to make these virtues desirable we promote them as masculine

    And that's okay as a strategy to socialize ourselves, but ultimately aren't categories like "masculine" and "feminine" just empty containers?

    idk man why is anything? :) Maybe an anthropologist could help us understand how we took the animal behaviors associated with sex and human phenotype averages and built various social structures around them as cultures appeared and vanished. And ultimately you're right, these are boxes we built for ourselves and frequently reconstruct as times and cultures move.

    I think questions about how we got here are distinct from questions about what here is and how to live there for our 80ish years. Both interesting, but mostly separate.

    spool32 on
  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    A bit more seriously, good role models are important. My maternal grandfather is my big role model, as a man who was well read (without much of formal education), nuanced but kind, and combined that with the ability to carry a conversation.
    I remember writing for his funeral a decade ago that he had the gift to know when to be serious and when to enjoy himself. I want to be 75 years old and still happy to hear a certain bird, or excited to talk about something I read.

    And I'm really wary about the impact social media has on male stereotype, all these gymbros on juice who promote get rich quick schemes and treating women like dirt. It's mostly hitting non-college males, who get set up to fail monetarily and for life in general, on top of the extremely worrying political and socio-economical situation (especially the endless housing crisis, which prevent people from building up a normal lifepath)

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited December 2024
    The closest I've seen to a masculine trait that makes sense to me is the assorted "dudes will see this and just say hell yeah" things where I did in fact say "hell yeah"

    TOGSolid on
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  • xXx_bLunTmaSTeR_420x69?xXx_bLunTmaSTeR_420x69? Registered User regular
    Why is any virtue supposedly masculine, as opposed to being a generic virtue that's good and admirable in any person? The entire exercise seems to be rhetorical -- we know that people care deeply about their gendered identity, that men largely care more about being a man correctly than being a human being correctly, so to make these virtues desirable we promote them as masculine

    And that's okay as a strategy to socialize ourselves, but ultimately aren't categories like "masculine" and "feminine" just empty containers?

    I think its true but also we cant cede it or itll get filled by something worse

    Competing with toxic masculinity in earnest and people needing to have it is a task that makes me feel like humans are so tedious

    But I guess lets workshop it and all

    A man:
    Is a good person

    *mission accomplished banner catches fire*

  • RatherDashingRatherDashing Registered User regular
    I think the role model thing is a decent starting point. People should not feel like they can only have role models of their own gender. But people will probably gravitate towards role models with whom they share some attribute, however trivial, and gender expression is one of those. So it's okay to frame things in terms of what a positive male role model looks like, as long as you acknowledge that these traits are not universal or exclusive to males. Much like we could describe what a positive gamer influence would look like (no such thing amirite), or what a good forumer looks like (positive chanus-inity).

  • Irredeemably IndecisiveIrredeemably Indecisive WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Personally I'd love it if we could get rid of the idea of a "Male Trait" and call them "Masculine Trait". Keeping everything in this male/female binary is hurtful and erases many people who have those traits but reject the idea of being a Man.

  • DrLoserForHireXDrLoserForHireX Philosopher King The AcademyRegistered User regular
    Why is any virtue supposedly masculine, as opposed to being a generic virtue that's good and admirable in any person? The entire exercise seems to be rhetorical -- we know that people care deeply about their gendered identity, that men largely care more about being a man correctly than being a human being correctly, so to make these virtues desirable we promote them as masculine

    And that's okay as a strategy to socialize ourselves, but ultimately aren't categories like "masculine" and "feminine" just empty containers?

    This is really all it though. It's whether gender is real, or not.

    It's probably not the case that whatever is referred to by 'masculine' is something naturally occurring. Masculinity isn't like coastal erosion, a naturally occurring phenomenon. But there's also not any such thing as "baseball" in nature either. We made it up. But it is real, it's just invented. Not everything we've made up is real though, like Narnia. Narnia isn't real, not even in the same way that baseball is.

    So is gender more like Narnia, or more like baseball? I think that for the most part we treat it as more like baseball, that there are some rules and there is something to it. I mean, in most of the literature that I'm aware of, even the most out there kind of stuff you tend to get the idea that gender is real, though artificial.

    I'm not so sure. I find myself more and more believing that gender is like Narnia. It's a fiction that we participate in, but ultimately there isn't anything going on there. We pretend that gender is real, but it isn't. However, this is not without it's problems. I mean, conceivably one can opt in and out of engaging with Narnia, but we can't do that with gender. It also doesn't really seem like we are pretending. It does seem like there's something there, or at least that there ought to be something there. Otherwise a lot of our connected concepts don't end up making a ton of sense.

    On the other hand, with something that is a social construct and artificial like baseball, we can outline the rules. Baseball isn't a mystery. Gender does seem to be somewhat mysterious though, we can't actually give a real solid set of necessary and sufficient conditions for being a man or a woman or neither. At least, we can't give any conditions that aren't circular. Gender doesn't seem to follow any sort of consistent form or rules.

    I find myself at a loss. I always feel the pull of a sort of philosophically fictionalist account of gender (cartoon version: gender is like Narnia, when we are doing a gender we are pretending it's real when it isn't)), but I don't know if it actually works.

    "The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
    "We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
  • Irredeemably IndecisiveIrredeemably Indecisive WisconsinRegistered User regular
    There is a masc/femme spectrum because we are a binary species. We do not like living in the grey areas and want everything to be black and white. To that end we assigned the opposites of our traits a masc side and a femme side. This is not hurtful when it's used as a way to inform yourself and others about who you are and your conclusions are accepted.

    It becomes harmful when it is then used to label others and dismiss their feelings in regards to our current set of created genders.

  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    edited December 2024
    I'm a terrible person to be giving you specific advice on how you should be relating to the concept of masculinity, but I'm a good person to be rambling about the ways humans relate to the subject of gender in general, so here goes:

    Gender isn't really a set of rigidly-defined boundaries where you're in or you're out and that's all there is to it. Gender is more like a set of shared mythologies, and our gender identities are (in part) the way we define ourselves in relation to the stories and archetypes within those mythologies. (Gender identity is a lot more complicated than just a social construct, but this is the element that feels most relevant to the current topic.)

    So, let's take an attribute that a lot of people might associate with masculinity: having strength, and using it to protect others. Can a woman have that attribute as well? Yes, of course. Is that attribute virtuous in the same ways regardless of whether a man or a woman is expressing it? Yes, of course. But the mythology surrounding the attribute tends to be different for men and women.

    A man embodying that attribute might come by it by way of stories about men being given this responsibility and then rising to meet and exceed the expectation.

    One woman embodying that attribute might come by it by way of stories about women who, despite being traditionally disempowered and relying on the protection of others, showed exceptional strength by claiming power for themselves and then sharing it with others who were similarly denied it.

    Another woman embodying that attribute might come by it by way of stories about motherhood, and mothers showing exceptional strength to protect their children when the need is greatest, and extending that to other aspects of life.

    The attributes and end behaviors are similar, but the stories surrounding them, and the specific ways in which we relate to those stories, are different. This is part of what makes different gender identities distinct even when some (or many) aspects of them overlap.

    So I guess my advice to you would be to try thinking less in terms of "which qualities are uniquely masculine", and think more in terms of, what are the stories about men and masculinity that you're immersed in in your culture, and how do you relate to them? Which stories describe something positive that you want to embrace? Which stories describe something negative that you want to oppose? Which stories describe some attribute that is meaningful to you, but that you want or need to go about in a way that's different from the norm? All of these feelings, even the nominally gender-non-conforming ones, are aspects of your masculine identity, because they're all feelings that you're having as a man in relation to the cultural mythos surrounding masculinity (assuming that is what your gender identity actually is, of course). Other genders have their own networks of stories that they're working through. You don't usually have to worry too much about, like, taking a quality away from other genders by claiming it for yourself through a masculine lens. There are multiple paths to the same place, but the specific path that feels like "yours" has meaning.

    I could talk about this kind stuff in more depth, but if I do it'll pretty quickly start getting into the weeds of my personal experiences as a trans woman, so I'll probably leave it at this for now. Hopefully it helps?

    Wyvern on
    Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
  • JedocJedoc In the scuppers with the staggers and jagsRegistered User regular
    You seem like you'd be really bad at constructing a whole other human being inside your body, and you're rockin' it.

    GDdCWMm.jpg
  • ThroThro pgroome@penny-arcade.com Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    I have to wrap gifts and I have to do it soon; thus, I am procrastinating.

    Anyway, there was a painting at work the other day that I liked, and it seems vaguely on topic

    lSGLab3.jpeg


    Manfulness, Angelshaug
    Manlyness is just leaving half empty coffee mugs all over the porch.
    Positive manlyness is leaving them half full.

  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Mayday wrote: »
    Over time I've completely lost what it means to be a man. Every "manly" quality I could agree on - I'd appreciate in a woman too.
    Sure, I may have a beard and I'm trying to grow some muscle, but that seems... superficial. I'm ok with my role as a husband and dad, but I'm wondering if any of you actually get any comfort from your gender roles (and what they are to you) or is everyone moving in the same direction of ignoring that.

    I mean I didn't and I admitted some things to myself and I'm much happier now not being a man.

    I will also point out what most of society considers masculinity is fucked bro and not worth trying to cling to.

    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    My husband and I were on a trip with his dad and his dad’s wife and he corralled everyone and made sure they got on the bus we were taking and then got on last

    I said it was true alpha behavior

    I know the idea of “alpha wolves” is fucked but in general leaders of wolf packs tend to take care of their packs, rather than mercilessly dominate and neg them

  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    I think the specific way alpha wolves got f'd actual contains some pretty poignant lessons.
    It was observed in wolves in captivity, and only later was it realized that it was actually stress behavior of too many wolves being in too small a space, which made them snippy and snarly. In a 'normal' wolf pack it's usually just a parent who leads a pack, and adolescent wolves peel off at some point, but here they couldn't so they became a nightmare.
    The biologist that wrote the original paper spent much of his later life trying to bust this myth but it remains an incredibly powerful meme because certain people want to believe it's true, that the 'best' and 'natural' way to lead is by being a asshole that constantly tries to keep others in line.

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
  • xXx_bLunTmaSTeR_420x69?xXx_bLunTmaSTeR_420x69? Registered User regular
    edited December 2024
    Jedoc wrote: »
    You seem like you'd be really bad at constructing a whole other human being inside your body, and you're rockin' it.

    We are having our first kid soon and this entire self replicating body design is tbh dogshit

    xXx_bLunTmaSTeR_420x69? on
  • JedocJedoc In the scuppers with the staggers and jagsRegistered User regular
    As time goes by, I increasingly find my library staffed by horrid children who have somehow contrived to earn master's degrees yet refuse to understand any of my pop culture references.

    A few months ago, one of them had a tire go flat in the parking lot. I grabbed the portable compressor and tire gauge from my own car, showed them where to find the PSI for their tires on the frame of the driver's side door, pumped the tire up, and checked it after half an hour to make sure it was holding enough air for them to make it to the tire shop up the road.

    None of this was strictly masculine versus feminine in terms of virtue, but it certainly made me feel Dad as hell, as a man who does not intend to create any old-fashioned artisanal small-batch children myself.

    GDdCWMm.jpg
  • Havelock3.0Havelock3.0 What are you? Some kind of half-assed astronaut?Registered User regular
    Knowing the difference between a Philips and a Flathead is manly af

    You go in the cage, cage goes in the water, you go in the water. Shark's in the water, our shark.
  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    I grew up thinking I had survived some very unique and bespoke bullshit around masculinity and a hyper patriarchal church cult. Then I read bell hooks' The Will to Change and realized that it's all the same god damn bullshit about masculinity and hyper patriarchal everywhere that we're all just trying to survive. It made me feel less special but more equipped to deal with some of it to understand how much we all go through it together.

    Just to say, the badness is trying to be isolating. All the pipelines to the right want us alone and easy to pick off. We can't let it.

  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    I think a lot of the concept and conversation around masculinity is due to the outsized nature of conflict within the camps of people who are affected by it.

    A long-running vein of patriarchal ideation has been ever-present in nearly every major culture in the planet for the last several thousand years, and while specifics within those cultures have differed and evolved, the most consistent mores held to in those societies center around highly restrictive and oppressive values.

    What we might describe as “positive masculinity” today is often little more than just being the kind of mature, emotionally-intelligent, even-tempered person we would want to be around regardless of their sex or gender, and the rest exists largely as a reactionary response to the patriarchal insistences that seek to justify dynamics of oppressive performative gender.

    Because that’s all that toxic masculinity is: just ignorance and narcissistic insecurity given a name and mandate and free pass to hurt people simply because enough men want it in the same way.

    Being a good man is as simple as being a good person. Being a toxic man is as simple as being someone who is afraid in the same way we all are, but wants a complete absolution of accountability and responsibility to the people they hurt with their behavior. I’ll let Noah Hawley fill in the rest:

    Roy Tillman : Bible says the wife is the property of the husband. Therefore, that makes your son a thief. If we're talking about who has the more legitimate claim.
    Lorraine Lyon : You know, I've heard of you. You're one of those constitutional sheriffs.
    Roy Tillman : Yes, I am. Defender of freedom and protector of the common man against the tyranny of the state and all its wicked demands.
    Lorraine Lyon : Taxes?
    Roy Tillman : Oh, yeah.
    Lorraine Lyon : The social safety net?
    Roy Tillman : Well, I'd spit, but, uh...
    Lorraine Lyon : Respect for the otherly-abled?
    Roy Tillman : The whole multi-cultural panoply. Billy has two mothers, et cetera, et cetera.
    Lorraine Lyon : So... you want freedom with no responsibility. Son, there's only one person on Earth who gets that deal.
    Roy Tillman : Mmm. The president?
    Lorraine Lyon : A baby.

  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    SanderJK wrote: »
    I think the specific way alpha wolves got f'd actual contains some pretty poignant lessons.
    It was observed in wolves in captivity, and only later was it realized that it was actually stress behavior of too many wolves being in too small a space, which made them snippy and snarly. In a 'normal' wolf pack it's usually just a parent who leads a pack, and adolescent wolves peel off at some point, but here they couldn't so they became a nightmare.
    The biologist that wrote the original paper spent much of his later life trying to bust this myth but it remains an incredibly powerful meme because certain people want to believe it's true, that the 'best' and 'natural' way to lead is by being a asshole that constantly tries to keep others in line.

    A guy on one of the podcasts I listen to referred to "Alpha" types as "sad zoo wolves in a prison of their own making"

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    I have on good authority you must be swift as a coursing river as well as mysterious as the dark side of the moon. There are other traits, but I feel these are the most important ones.

  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    Also while we're working at this project can we organize a stance against Myer-Briggs testing. A plague upon the business world that also asks people to put themselves and others in neat little boxes.

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
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