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Join us in the [Anime] thread to end all [Anime] threads

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Posts

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Vegeta didn't really changed his world view when he became friends with Goku

    Anzekay on
  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    The human Z fighters and Gohan have interest in the state of their world and the welfare of human beings, the Saiyans never do. Vegeta blows up a stadium full of people and Goku still fights him "fairly" (aka, holding back and patronizing him) rather than putting him down like a rabid dog.

    Anzekay on
  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    Goku's not a good person actually

    Anzekay on
  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    Anime does love to half-ass rehabilitation for villains, even unrepetant ones, out of some kind of misguided both-sidesism. See? Throat Ripper the Orphan Torturer was a former slave. Here's an emotional backstory and montage to weep over.

    There are also quite a few "BUT FRIENDSHIP" anime where the relationships are actually deeply toxic bullshit.

    Right but this is partly motivated by how villains are always cooler than protagonists so the only way to have cool protagonists is to have them be villains first and then become good

    Anzekay on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    It is also hard to accept "he changed his beliefs" when a person was committing genocide before the beliefs changed

    Anzekay on
  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Or to put this topic in the phrasing of amusing skits...
    https://youtu.be/JeYIlET3szA
    https://youtu.be/E-mdqtEfUpc

    Anzekay on
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Had Toriyama come up with SSJ3 yet when he was writing the Majin Vegeta fight?

    Anzekay on
  • JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Everyone shut up I just found out the bad guy in Superhuman Samurai Syber Squad was voiced by Tim Curry. Anyway that's all back to whatever you were fighting about

    Anzekay on
    Steam | SW-0844-0908-6004 and my Switch code
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    You know how in DBZA Kai Goku said "Dsngit, nothing's worked. Better do that thing that always works."

    That's pretty much how the Buu saga plays out.

    Anzekay on
  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Watching more MHA now, I'm quickly finding out that, while I love the world and setting, I do not care at all about any of the main characters. I just want to see more of the losers, and also All Might should show up to save the day every few episodes.

    Anzekay on
    uyvfOQy.png
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Like, Nanoha, okay, you were just hijacking magic gizmos or draining people half to death.

    Symphogear, uh, villains turned protagonists? You were unleashing swarms of death monsters onto packed cities. At best, you were apathetic to mass murder.

    And then there's Terror in Resonance.

    Anzekay on
    ztrEPtD.gif
  • AbacusAbacus Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    To be fair, a big part of why Super got good, besides non-terrible animation, is that they actually finished Vegeta's redemption arc:
    1. By actually looking for his family and Cabba, the latter being on his position before Frieza.
    2. By aknowledging Goku as a rival and beating the ass of the body stealing asshole villain and telling him that he will never be as strong as Goku.
    3. By refuting his own dumbass idea on the Buu saga and saying that throwing out the things that matter to him and his pride to beg for scraps of power didn't actually made him stronger.

    I liked the most the Cabba bit. Trunks and Bra were raised human, but Cabba is the Saiyan heir on the start of the road that he took, and he made his business to make sure that Cabba ends up becoming a better man that he is.

    Anzekay on
  • Moth 13Moth 13 Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Had Toriyama come up with SSJ3 yet when he was writing the Majin Vegeta fight?

    Almost certainly not.

    Anzekay on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited April 13
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Anzekay on
  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Frieren just finished a flashback that is completely unique in any anime flashback I've ever seen.
    Nothing's changed, and yet we the reader learned so much more about the current circumstances. Macht was always going to do this, it's who he is, there didn't need to be some 11th hour surprise that wrenched his alignment like so many flashbacks I've seen for antagonist histories. But at the same time it explains why he did it, why he's still doing it, and why he permits Denken and Frieren to visit him while leaving unscathed.

    He wants to perish to the Stone Bracelet because if he does it will mean he finally learned what "malice" is and also felt it himself. Considering everything we know about demons no wonder Frieren saw these memories and immediately said there was no chance of victory. Because victory requires a demon to understand and feel emotion, something bordering on the impossible if it's not just flat out impossible.

    Anzekay on
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Rehabilitation story arcs can be good, but I would agree that a lot of shonen series half-ass them fairly egregiously

    Anzekay on
  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    This is why I like scryed, because they never really become friends. They just happen to have aligning goals.

    Anzekay on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • WhippyWhippy Moderator, Admin Emeritus Admin Emeritus
    edited April 13
    justice for the bug planet arlia

    Anzekay on
  • ElaroElaro Who am I? What do I want?Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Elaro wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Well yeah all these guys secretly want to be wrong so the hero can prove to then that third way centrism is real

    That's a lot of reading into series about beating bad guys with the power of friendship.

    The big problem with "let's turn enemies into friends" is that if you do make friends with your former enemies, you weren't really enemies to begin with.

    I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. They're enemies because they have a worldview that is in conflict with yours. If you can convince them to change their worldview, then they can be friends.

    Are you out of your gaddam mi- *deep breaths* A lot of people who have conflicting worldviews are not enemies at all. Like two engineers disagreeing over a detail of their plans. A mother not understanding why her child is upset. Two friends arguing over which sports team is more likely to win the cup. Or you and me, right now. These are not enemies, we are not foes (at least I hope not). We may be temporarily antagonists, but we are not really enemies.

    Enmity, real enmity, like "fight-to-the-death" enmity, happens not when there is a conflicting worldview, aka a misunderstanding, or different childhood circumstances, as the animes claim, but when the opposing parties have mutually-exclusive fundamental goals. Think "person who wants to own slaves" and "people who don't want to be slaves". Or, well, Light and L/Mellow/Near in Death Note. People who can't just eventually become friends if external circumstances change. Internally, if they change those fundamental goals, then maybe, but changing a fundamental goal requires that you have at least one other fundamental goal that wants that change, and therefore there was a part of them that wasn't an enemy.

    I don't think you're doing this on purpose, but by conflating "people with mutually exclusive interests" and "people who aren't on the same conceptual page", you're giving oppressed/abused people the false hope that maybe if they just talked to their oppressors/abusers just right, they'd get the latter to stop oppressing/abusing them. This... historically hasn't worked.

    Anzekay on
    Children's rights are human rights.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited April 13
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Anzekay on
  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Whippy wrote: »
    justice for the bug planet arlia

    Sorry, Bulma thought Vegeta was cute and invited him to move in with her out of nowhere, so he got automatically forgiven for everything before that point.

    Anzekay on
  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    Lars wrote: »
    Whippy wrote: »
    justice for the bug planet arlia

    Sorry, Bulma thought Vegeta was cute and invited him to move in with her out of nowhere, so he got automatically forgiven for everything before that point.

    tbf Bulma is like one of those women who write letters to serial killers in prison

    Anzekay on
  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    We did just see her getting very excited watching Yamcha beat up a bunch of random karate dudes he antagonized, that had absolutely no chance against him.

    Anzekay on
    uyvfOQy.png
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Elaro wrote: »
    Elaro wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Well yeah all these guys secretly want to be wrong so the hero can prove to then that third way centrism is real

    That's a lot of reading into series about beating bad guys with the power of friendship.

    The big problem with "let's turn enemies into friends" is that if you do make friends with your former enemies, you weren't really enemies to begin with.

    I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. They're enemies because they have a worldview that is in conflict with yours. If you can convince them to change their worldview, then they can be friends.

    Are you out of your gaddam mi- *deep breaths* A lot of people who have conflicting worldviews are not enemies at all. Like two engineers disagreeing over a detail of their plans. A mother not understanding why her child is upset. Two friends arguing over which sports team is more likely to win the cup. Or you and me, right now. These are not enemies, we are not foes (at least I hope not). We may be temporarily antagonists, but we are not really enemies.

    Enmity, real enmity, like "fight-to-the-death" enmity, happens not when there is a conflicting worldview, aka a misunderstanding, or different childhood circumstances, as the animes claim, but when the opposing parties have mutually-exclusive fundamental goals. Think "person who wants to own slaves" and "people who don't want to be slaves". Or, well, Light and L/Mellow/Near in Death Note. People who can't just eventually become friends if external circumstances change. Internally, if they change those fundamental goals, then maybe, but changing a fundamental goal requires that you have at least one other fundamental goal that wants that change, and therefore there was a part of them that wasn't an enemy.

    I don't think you're doing this on purpose, but by conflating "people with mutually exclusive interests" and "people who aren't on the same conceptual page", you're giving oppressed/abused people the false hope that maybe if they just talked to their oppressors/abusers just right, they'd get the latter to stop oppressing/abusing them. This... historically hasn't worked.

    I think maybe a lot of people don’t define “enemy” quite as rigidly as you are here and that’s where the disconnect in this conversation is happening.

    Anzekay on
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Elaro wrote: »
    Elaro wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Well yeah all these guys secretly want to be wrong so the hero can prove to then that third way centrism is real

    That's a lot of reading into series about beating bad guys with the power of friendship.

    The big problem with "let's turn enemies into friends" is that if you do make friends with your former enemies, you weren't really enemies to begin with.

    I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. They're enemies because they have a worldview that is in conflict with yours. If you can convince them to change their worldview, then they can be friends.

    Are you out of your gaddam mi- *deep breaths* A lot of people who have conflicting worldviews are not enemies at all. Like two engineers disagreeing over a detail of their plans. A mother not understanding why her child is upset. Two friends arguing over which sports team is more likely to win the cup. Or you and me, right now. These are not enemies, we are not foes (at least I hope not). We may be temporarily antagonists, but we are not really enemies.

    Enmity, real enmity, like "fight-to-the-death" enmity, happens not when there is a conflicting worldview, aka a misunderstanding, or different childhood circumstances, as the animes claim, but when the opposing parties have mutually-exclusive fundamental goals. Think "person who wants to own slaves" and "people who don't want to be slaves". Or, well, Light and L/Mellow/Near in Death Note. People who can't just eventually become friends if external circumstances change. Internally, if they change those fundamental goals, then maybe, but changing a fundamental goal requires that you have at least one other fundamental goal that wants that change, and therefore there was a part of them that wasn't an enemy.

    I don't think you're doing this on purpose, but by conflating "people with mutually exclusive interests" and "people who aren't on the same conceptual page", you're giving oppressed/abused people the false hope that maybe if they just talked to their oppressors/abusers just right, they'd get the latter to stop oppressing/abusing them. This... historically hasn't worked.

    I'm not sure how people arrive at fundamentally opposed goals without having conflicting worldviews. I don't think you can have the one without the other, and your goals will not change unless your worldview does.

    Of course I do not intend to give oppressed folk false hope, but I have to believe people can change. How you go about getting people to change is definitely not as simple as talking to them the right way, but if you believe people are incapable of change, then what options are left to you for dealing with the conflict between you?

    Anzekay on
  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Why are you trying to argue with someone to try and change their mind if you think the attitude of trying to argue with someone to try and change their mind is bad?

    Anzekay on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Whippy wrote: »
    justice for the bug planet arlia

    To be fair wasn't that anime filler?

    Anzekay on
  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    I watched a few episodes of Wonder Egg Priority, then the first episodes of Yuri Kuma Arashi and Kannazuki no Mito tonight.

    I am just a bit overwhelmed at the moment.

    Anzekay on
    uyvfOQy.png
  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    have you read the sequel serieses to Battle Angel/Gunnm yet? Last Order in particular gets to almost some Berserk levels of nuttiness

    Anzekay on
  • SkeithSkeith Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    I should read Martian Chronicle...

    Anzekay on
    aTBDrQE.jpg
  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    I finished rereading Alita, so if anyone was interested in book clubbing Last Order and beyond...

    Anzekay on
    uyvfOQy.png
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    Reynolds wrote: »
    I watched a few episodes of Wonder Egg Priority, then the first episodes of Yuri Kuma Arashi and Kannazuki no Mito tonight.

    I am just a bit overwhelmed at the moment.

    KnM's first episode is a roller coaster.

    Anzekay on
    z48g7weaopj2.png
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    at least you saw some warnings about made in abyss before you looked into it

    I'd love a dungeon diving mystery adventure story like made in abyss but with less horribly hurting children and less pervert gaze at aforementioned children. That'd be more ideal.


    Have you heard of Dungeon Meshi/Delicious in Dungeon? Our protagnists are going to eat their way through the dungeon come hell or high water. Also it has some of the best art and fantasy character design out there, point blank.

    Yes that's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about, dungeon meshi rules

    Anzekay on
    BahamutZERO.gif
  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    I recently rewatched Samurai Champloo and took a shotgun blast of Mandela Effect to the face in the final episode:
    I remembered Jin's whole "forbidden secret technique" involving baiting the enemy into hitting you near-fatally to set up a more guaranteed counter-blow, but in my memories that got mashed together with Mugen's fight in the church and the scene where Jin kills his master. I was completely certain that Jin fought the last guy in a darkened dojo scene, not in broad daylight on the top of a hill. Spooky.

    Anzekay on
    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.

    I'm "kupiyupaekio" on Discord.
  • ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Last Order is about how cats are good

    Anzekay on
    7h8wnycre6vs.png
  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    at least you saw some warnings about made in abyss before you looked into it

    I'd love a dungeon diving mystery adventure story like made in abyss but with less horribly hurting children and less pervert gaze at aforementioned children. That'd be more ideal.


    Have you heard of Dungeon Meshi/Delicious in Dungeon? Our protagnists are going to eat their way through the dungeon come hell or high water. Also it has some of the best art and fantasy character design out there, point blank.

    Yes that's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about, dungeon meshi rules

    Now I want to read this but I hate anime/manga with depictions of delicious food because it makes me constantly hungry while watching/reading it.

    Anzekay on
  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Elaro wrote: »
    Elaro wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Well yeah all these guys secretly want to be wrong so the hero can prove to then that third way centrism is real

    That's a lot of reading into series about beating bad guys with the power of friendship.

    The big problem with "let's turn enemies into friends" is that if you do make friends with your former enemies, you weren't really enemies to begin with.

    I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. They're enemies because they have a worldview that is in conflict with yours. If you can convince them to change their worldview, then they can be friends.

    Are you out of your gaddam mi- *deep breaths* A lot of people who have conflicting worldviews are not enemies at all. Like two engineers disagreeing over a detail of their plans. A mother not understanding why her child is upset. Two friends arguing over which sports team is more likely to win the cup. Or you and me, right now. These are not enemies, we are not foes (at least I hope not). We may be temporarily antagonists, but we are not really enemies.

    Enmity, real enmity, like "fight-to-the-death" enmity, happens not when there is a conflicting worldview, aka a misunderstanding, or different childhood circumstances, as the animes claim, but when the opposing parties have mutually-exclusive fundamental goals. Think "person who wants to own slaves" and "people who don't want to be slaves". Or, well, Light and L/Mellow/Near in Death Note. People who can't just eventually become friends if external circumstances change. Internally, if they change those fundamental goals, then maybe, but changing a fundamental goal requires that you have at least one other fundamental goal that wants that change, and therefore there was a part of them that wasn't an enemy.

    I don't think you're doing this on purpose, but by conflating "people with mutually exclusive interests" and "people who aren't on the same conceptual page", you're giving oppressed/abused people the false hope that maybe if they just talked to their oppressors/abusers just right, they'd get the latter to stop oppressing/abusing them. This... historically hasn't worked.

    I'm not sure how people arrive at fundamentally opposed goals without having conflicting worldviews. I don't think you can have the one without the other, and your goals will not change unless your worldview does.

    Of course I do not intend to give oppressed folk false hope, but I have to believe people can change. How you go about getting people to change is definitely not as simple as talking to them the right way, but if you believe people are incapable of change, then what options are left to you for dealing with the conflict between you?

    I believe the most popular response to that question, historically, has been "you simply unexist all of the wrong people".

    In any case, I've been starting (and catching up) on some manga this past week, some very good, some just kind of okay.

    Dress-up darling is really wholesome and very neat. These two teenage morons are at very severe risk of dying of mutual thirst before this manga ends, but also the sheer joy people put into their passions in here is always good to read.

    Otoyomegatari is very good. An uncommon choice of subject matter (the peoples of the steppes and their life), and feels so much like someone very interested in the cultures involved trying their best to represent them. Thorough recommend. And christ, the art. How does the artist's hand not fall off after some of these pages. Entire two page spreads of incredibly detailed sewn patterns has to be an intentional flex.

    The Holy Grail of Eris is also quite good. Drama centered around a relatively sheltered noble girl trying to save her family and getting into some deep shit about it, and a ghost linked to her that is a lady who is basically the exact opposite ot her in terms of nobility.

    On the more "eh" side, a friend recommended Iruma-kun, and while it's not actually bad, and it's quite frequently funny, and it has a lot of lovable characters, the sheer blatantness of the wish fulfillment kinda kicks me out of the story sometimes? Like, I have nothing against a little wish fulfillment, I read Riso no Himo Seikatsu, but there's kind of a point of "every girl falls for the main character and everything ends up going his way" that takes you a bit out of the whole thing and Iruma hits that like thirty chapters in and just keeps sprinting on.

    Anzekay on
    Steam ID: Right here.
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Mortal Sky wrote: »
    have you read the sequel serieses to Battle Angel/Gunnm yet? Last Order in particular gets to almost some Berserk levels of nuttiness

    I fucking love that last order is basically all tournament arc. Except really good tournament arc. Space karate! Sechs (who's technically trans and it's great!). Vampires! Zekka!

    Sadly Mars Chronicle is pretty awful currently. It started with a flashback, then advanced the timeline set up a bunch of interesting stuff...

    And has been in flashback ever since, most of it focusing on child Erica who is literally the worst. Glad the mangaka is having fun, I guess, but also arrrrrrrrrrgh

    Anzekay on
    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • ArtoriaArtoria Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Wow I go away for a few, um, years and we can have Anime threads now?

    Madness!

    Anyways I've had literally 0 time to fit in any Anime for a long time but I'm finally starting up Demon Slayer. I like it so far. Only up to Episode 5 and liking it so far.

    Anzekay on
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Winky wrote: »
    at least you saw some warnings about made in abyss before you looked into it

    I'd love a dungeon diving mystery adventure story like made in abyss but with less horribly hurting children and less pervert gaze at aforementioned children. That'd be more ideal.


    Have you heard of Dungeon Meshi/Delicious in Dungeon? Our protagnists are going to eat their way through the dungeon come hell or high water. Also it has some of the best art and fantasy character design out there, point blank.

    Yes that's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about, dungeon meshi rules

    Now I want to read this but I hate anime/manga with depictions of delicious food because it makes me constantly hungry while watching/reading it.

    This will happen, but power through Friend. Not only is the series often deeply funny, it's got an incredibly well realized world - our protagonists win through actually understanding monster biology and the issues it would have, the reason there's a fucking crazy dungeon actually makes sense...
    Just go! Read it! It's so good!

    Anzekay on
    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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