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Join us in the [Anime] thread to end all [Anime] threads

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Posts

  • ElaroElaro Who am I? What do I want?Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Why are you trying to argue with someone to try and change their mind if you think the attitude of trying to argue with someone to try and change their mind is bad?

    I'm arguing with CD (and now you) because I think we're not real enemies, you silly goose.

    Trying to argue with real enemies to try and change their minds is useless. Of course, one has to check that one's adversary is a real enemy, so trying to initiate dialogue is a good first step in any conflict, but them consistently refusing to engage in it or dismissing their opponent's critique out of hand (regardless of who says it*) is a good indicator that they might be real enemies.

    * For example, Miko Iino dismisses Yuu Ishigami's critique several times in Love is War, but she doesn't dismiss the same criticism when Chika Fujiwara says it, so Ishigami and Iino aren't real enemies. Ishimiko clears that particular hurdle.

    I'm not sure how people arrive at fundamentally opposed goals without having conflicting worldviews. I don't think you can have the one without the other, and your goals will not change unless your worldview does.

    Of course I do not intend to give oppressed folk false hope, but I have to believe people can change. How you go about getting people to change is definitely not as simple as talking to them the right way, but if you believe people are incapable of change, then what options are left to you for dealing with the conflict between you?

    To your first paragraph: imagine two business magnates with the same worldview: being the richest is good, nothing is off the table to get there, whoever gets to the top deserves it. Complete agreement on every abstract position. If Magnate A wants to be the richest and so does Magnate B, they're going to outmaneuver, sabotage and murder the shit out of each other; they're still really enemies. Hell, they may even like and respect each other, but both of them have the same worldview that letting something like "the enjoyment of each other's company" get in the way of their ambitions is wrong. Real enmity != Worldview conflict.

    The criteria for two enemies being real enemies is incompatibility of their committed life goals/ambitions, not necessarily their worldview.

    To your second paragraph: I know firsthand (hell, zeroth hand) people can change. But for someone to change of their own free will, they have to want to change, which means realizing their committed life goals/ambitions are served by them changing, which means, if they change enough to be genuine friends with their former enemies, their and their former enemies' CLGs/As weren't incompatible to begin with. Hence, not really enemies. QED.

    Anzekay on
    Children's rights are human rights.
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    Drascin wrote: »
    Elaro wrote: »
    Elaro wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Well yeah all these guys secretly want to be wrong so the hero can prove to then that third way centrism is real

    That's a lot of reading into series about beating bad guys with the power of friendship.

    The big problem with "let's turn enemies into friends" is that if you do make friends with your former enemies, you weren't really enemies to begin with.

    I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. They're enemies because they have a worldview that is in conflict with yours. If you can convince them to change their worldview, then they can be friends.

    Are you out of your gaddam mi- *deep breaths* A lot of people who have conflicting worldviews are not enemies at all. Like two engineers disagreeing over a detail of their plans. A mother not understanding why her child is upset. Two friends arguing over which sports team is more likely to win the cup. Or you and me, right now. These are not enemies, we are not foes (at least I hope not). We may be temporarily antagonists, but we are not really enemies.

    Enmity, real enmity, like "fight-to-the-death" enmity, happens not when there is a conflicting worldview, aka a misunderstanding, or different childhood circumstances, as the animes claim, but when the opposing parties have mutually-exclusive fundamental goals. Think "person who wants to own slaves" and "people who don't want to be slaves". Or, well, Light and L/Mellow/Near in Death Note. People who can't just eventually become friends if external circumstances change. Internally, if they change those fundamental goals, then maybe, but changing a fundamental goal requires that you have at least one other fundamental goal that wants that change, and therefore there was a part of them that wasn't an enemy.

    I don't think you're doing this on purpose, but by conflating "people with mutually exclusive interests" and "people who aren't on the same conceptual page", you're giving oppressed/abused people the false hope that maybe if they just talked to their oppressors/abusers just right, they'd get the latter to stop oppressing/abusing them. This... historically hasn't worked.

    I'm not sure how people arrive at fundamentally opposed goals without having conflicting worldviews. I don't think you can have the one without the other, and your goals will not change unless your worldview does.

    Of course I do not intend to give oppressed folk false hope, but I have to believe people can change. How you go about getting people to change is definitely not as simple as talking to them the right way, but if you believe people are incapable of change, then what options are left to you for dealing with the conflict between you?

    I believe the most popular response to that question, historically, has been "you simply unexist all of the wrong people".

    In any case, I've been starting (and catching up) on some manga this past week, some very good, some just kind of okay.

    Dress-up darling is really wholesome and very neat. These two teenage morons are at very severe risk of dying of mutual thirst before this manga ends, but also the sheer joy people put into their passions in here is always good to read.

    Otoyomegatari is very good. An uncommon choice of subject matter (the peoples of the steppes and their life), and feels so much like someone very interested in the cultures involved trying their best to represent them. Thorough recommend. And christ, the art. How does the artist's hand not fall off after some of these pages. Entire two page spreads of incredibly detailed sewn patterns has to be an intentional flex.

    The Holy Grail of Eris is also quite good. Drama centered around a relatively sheltered noble girl trying to save her family and getting into some deep shit about it, and a ghost linked to her that is a lady who is basically the exact opposite ot her in terms of nobility.

    On the more "eh" side, a friend recommended Iruma-kun, and while it's not actually bad, and it's quite frequently funny, and it has a lot of lovable characters, the sheer blatantness of the wish fulfillment kinda kicks me out of the story sometimes? Like, I have nothing against a little wish fulfillment, I read Riso no Himo Seikatsu, but there's kind of a point of "every girl falls for the main character and everything ends up going his way" that takes you a bit out of the whole thing and Iruma hits that like thirty chapters in and just keeps sprinting on.

    I absolutely adore Iruma-kun manga:
    The everyone's iruma-sexual thing eventually becomes a meta-joke, so the author is aware of it.

    Is there an arc where it doesn't feel like Iruma/the author actually earned the end? There's been pretty good narrative flow and character development, imo.

    Anzekay on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited April 13
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Anzekay on
  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    speaking of horny shit I just got through Nekomonogatari: Kuro

    I am definitely stoked to start Monogatari: Second Season, but also I'm hoping there's a lot more Senjougahara than there was in Niseimonogatari, because this series is actively at its best and its least bad-horny when Senjougahara is threatening to rip Koyomi's face off with office supplies for toeing the line between dirtbag and scumbag

    Anzekay on
  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Abusing the silly goose rule freely is a very good way to turn someone into a real enemy!
    aka Im done with this topic while you act like that

    Anzekay on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Mortal Sky wrote: »
    speaking of horny shit I just got through Nekomonogatari: Kuro

    I am definitely stoked to start Monogatari: Second Season, but also I'm hoping there's a lot more Senjougahara than there was in Niseimonogatari, because this series is actively at its best and its least bad-horny when Senjougahara is threatening to rip Koyomi's face off with office supplies for toeing the line between dirtbag and scumbag

    That's the definite nadir of the series, but woof there are still some low points to go.

    Anzekay on
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    cptrugged wrote: »
    I really should give more manga a try. For some reason I have such a higher threshold for enjoyment on manga than I do anime. I used to watch so much anime even if it was mediocre, but gave very few manga a try. Even manga for shows I absolutely adored.

    I wonder if ole Masamune Shirow has put out anything good. He used to be one of my favorites.

    I find most anime end with the story unresolved as a way to get you to check out the manga, so I always encourage people to seek out manga for the conclusion to most stories.

    Anzekay on
  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Im the opposite. Ill read almost any garbage but Im fussy about anime.

    Anzekay on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    cptrugged wrote: »
    I really should give more manga a try. For some reason I have such a higher threshold for enjoyment on manga than I do anime. I used to watch so much anime even if it was mediocre, but gave very few manga a try. Even manga for shows I absolutely adored.

    I wonder if ole Masamune Shirow has put out anything good. He used to be one of my favorites.

    I find most anime end with the story unresolved as a way to get you to check out the manga, so I always encourage people to seek out manga for the conclusion to most stories.

    Then you read the manga and find out the story is still unresolved. But I don't encourage people to seek out the light novel because no matter how good an anime or manga is there has been some MAJOR editing of the light novel to get them to that point. It's just part of what a light novel is, something simple enough to be written on a phone that doesn't need to conform to usual writing structure.

    Anzekay on
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Speaking of trashy things, I've been rewatching random old shows that I have fond memories of to reassure myself that old schlock like C3, Ben-To, Tokyo Majin, etc does at least hold up better than all the isekai and other drek recently. And most does. Yeah, there are somewhat different problems, but they're not just transparent MRA fanfiction buried under the weight of ten thousand footnotes explaining every minutia. Horizon especially, I didn't give enough credit in my memories to either its animation or its big speeches. It's genuinely a shame Sunrise gave up on it after two seasons.

    Anyway, I reached Taboo Tattoo, and I'd forgotten so many small things about this show that make it such a fucking baffling and fascinating acid trip, not the least of which was how the whole thing ended with a teaser for "On the next season of Taboo Tattoo, battle at the South Pole!" Which is just peak comedy and almost a parody in and of itself. The entire final arc is such a cataclysm of mystifying nonsense, from a dude named Colonel Sanders wanting to nuke the grand canyon to stop girl Sephiroth, to somehow ending up a kaijuu fight with dudes chanting "USA! USA!", to a random side character popping up out of nowhere getting top billing who keeps yelling that he's the main character and has a girlfriend waiting at home who he's going to marry. JC Staff went so hard on the animation for it too. Not always well, since it loves the zooming around camera schtick, but more money and effort probably went into any of its fights than every single one of the half-assed action scenes of Virgin Road this season combined. I would love to know the story of whatever the fuck was going on with that show's production.

    Anzekay on
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  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Altria wrote: »
    Wow I go away for a few, um, years and we can have Anime threads now?

    Madness!

    Glad to have you back.

    Anzekay on
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  • AbacusAbacus Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Im the opposite. Ill read almost any garbage but Im fussy about anime.

    Same. You can rush through manga very fast, so if is bad, whatever.

    Meanwhile, anime takes time to watch, so you have to schedule time for it. Barely make time to watch anime these days, and this season is only Spy x Family.

    Anzekay on
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Anime is a bigger time commitment, yeah, I can read a chapter of manga on the toilet

    Anzekay on
  • chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Madican wrote: »
    cptrugged wrote: »
    I really should give more manga a try. For some reason I have such a higher threshold for enjoyment on manga than I do anime. I used to watch so much anime even if it was mediocre, but gave very few manga a try. Even manga for shows I absolutely adored.

    I wonder if ole Masamune Shirow has put out anything good. He used to be one of my favorites.

    I find most anime end with the story unresolved as a way to get you to check out the manga, so I always encourage people to seek out manga for the conclusion to most stories.

    Then you read the manga and find out the story is still unresolved. But I don't encourage people to seek out the light novel because no matter how good an anime or manga is there has been some MAJOR editing of the light novel to get them to that point. It's just part of what a light novel is, something simple enough to be written on a phone that doesn't need to conform to usual writing structure.

    Nae, good person. The light novel is a heavily edited and professional product created from a web novel which is where the real madness is at.

    Delving into web novels really does show you the uh ... Rawness of humanity.

    Anzekay on
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  • WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Birdie Wing simply has the largest brain of any television show ever made

    Anzekay on
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Birdie Wing simply has the largest brain of any television show ever made

    It's important to leave as much space as possible for the two brain cells it has to bounce around.

    Anzekay on
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited April 13
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Anzekay on
  • WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Birdie Wing simply has the largest brain of any television show ever made

    It's important to leave as much space as possible for the two brain cells it has to bounce around.

    So true

    Anzekay on
  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Anzekay on
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  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    So I've been thinking about the Kaguya rap episode this week, and I've been consistently impressed by their soundtrack choices, and the variety of artists they sample.

    Kaguya's rap, for example, draws heavily from Queen:
    https://youtu.be/UoMBGan2XFU

    https://youtu.be/fJ9rUzIMcZQ

    Hayasaka's rap samples Led Zeppelin's Achilles Last Stand, which is a deep cut that took me a while to recognize:
    https://youtu.be/1t4KLOm7pO0

    But this isn't the only time. The season 2 track Enzetsu Ha!? draws pretty clearly from Bonnie Tyler's Holding Out for a Hero:
    https://youtu.be/RqlPRnLxAMw

    And the season 1 track "Failure" sound suspiciously like Dead or Alive's You Spin Me Round.
    https://youtu.be/AMwxa6hZIGg

    Whoever is doing the soundtracks for this show extremely knows what they're doing.

    Anzekay on
  • LasbrookLasbrook It takes a lot to make a stew When it comes to me and youRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    https://youtu.be/b1miJsAVYJA

    Aww hell yeah more Mob in October (turn on YouTube closed captions for English subs)

    Anzekay on
  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    Winky wrote: »
    at least you saw some warnings about made in abyss before you looked into it

    I'd love a dungeon diving mystery adventure story like made in abyss but with less horribly hurting children and less pervert gaze at aforementioned children. That'd be more ideal.


    Have you heard of Dungeon Meshi/Delicious in Dungeon? Our protagnists are going to eat their way through the dungeon come hell or high water. Also it has some of the best art and fantasy character design out there, point blank.

    Yes that's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about, dungeon meshi rules

    Now I want to read this but I hate anime/manga with depictions of delicious food because it makes me constantly hungry while watching/reading it.

    This will happen, but power through Friend. Not only is the series often deeply funny, it's got an incredibly well realized world - our protagonists win through actually understanding monster biology and the issues it would have, the reason there's a fucking crazy dungeon actually makes sense...
    Just go! Read it! It's so good!

    I'm glad I listened, I love this

    Anzekay on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited April 13
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Anzekay on
  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Im the opposite. Ill read almost any garbage but Im fussy about anime.

    Yeah, like I'm reading the Couple of Cuckoos manga. I started it day one when it came out since it was the same author as Seven Witches.

    But when I think about the fact it has an anime now, my first thought it "That's out already!?" and my second is "Ehh...I don't really want to watch that, it kind of sucks..."

    Then the next week, I read the next chapter of A Couple of Cuckoos.

    Anzekay on
  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Lasbrook wrote: »
    https://youtu.be/b1miJsAVYJA

    Aww hell yeah more Mob in October (turn on YouTube closed captions for English subs)

    Guessing this will be the last season.

    The manga ended, right? Gotta be the last season

    I've been meaning to dig into the comic but also the show was so good I'm sort of waiting for that, it's exceedingly rare that I ever engage with both an anime and manga concurrently

    Anzekay on
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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Lasbrook wrote: »
    https://youtu.be/b1miJsAVYJA

    Aww hell yeah more Mob in October (turn on YouTube closed captions for English subs)

    Guessing this will be the last season.

    The manga ended, right? Gotta be the last season

    I've been meaning to dig into the comic but also the show was so good I'm sort of waiting for that, it's exceedingly rare that I ever engage with both an anime and manga concurrently

    You mean Final Season: The First Final Season, to be followed by Final Season: The Second Final Season, and then Final Movie: The Actual Conclusion.

    Anzekay on
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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Jragghen wrote: »
    Lasbrook wrote: »
    https://youtu.be/b1miJsAVYJA

    Aww hell yeah more Mob in October (turn on YouTube closed captions for English subs)

    Guessing this will be the last season.

    The manga ended, right? Gotta be the last season

    I've been meaning to dig into the comic but also the show was so good I'm sort of waiting for that, it's exceedingly rare that I ever engage with both an anime and manga concurrently

    You mean Final Season: The First Final Season, to be followed by Final Season: The Second Final Season, and then Final Movie: The Actual Conclusion.

    Is this a thing now

    I’ve only ever heard about Attack on Titan doing it, but I would absolutely believe it started a trend

    Anzekay on
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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Winky wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    at least you saw some warnings about made in abyss before you looked into it

    I'd love a dungeon diving mystery adventure story like made in abyss but with less horribly hurting children and less pervert gaze at aforementioned children. That'd be more ideal.


    Have you heard of Dungeon Meshi/Delicious in Dungeon? Our protagnists are going to eat their way through the dungeon come hell or high water. Also it has some of the best art and fantasy character design out there, point blank.

    Yes that's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about, dungeon meshi rules

    Now I want to read this but I hate anime/manga with depictions of delicious food because it makes me constantly hungry while watching/reading it.

    This will happen, but power through Friend. Not only is the series often deeply funny, it's got an incredibly well realized world - our protagonists win through actually understanding monster biology and the issues it would have, the reason there's a fucking crazy dungeon actually makes sense...
    Just go! Read it! It's so good!

    I'm glad I listened, I love this

    I had a feeling you'd dig it. It honestly does remind me of the Culture novels or similar works in that you can tell that a HUGE amount of effort has gone into planning the world, understanding the world, and it's consequences. Also if you're early on, it just gets better!

    I also suggest looking up the author's Daydream Hour bits she does - they're sketch compliations etc which show some of her behind the scenes work, and they're amazing. For an example, she'll dress characters in each others outfits to make sure characters remain recongizable, she'll draw just the eyes and noses (for exactly the same reason), she'll even do the characters as different races to show how they'd look. Which is just an amazing level of detail and effort.


    Ahhh! it's so good. It's also, sadly probably coming towards an end but i will be avidly following whatever she does next.

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  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Evangelion, Madoka, it's pretty common to swap over to movies to get paid more directly.

    Anzekay on
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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    both of those examples were complete stories in their original TV series incarnations that had movie spin-offs after the fact because of their popularity

    Anzekay on
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  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    I guess it depends on how 'complete' you think something is just because the season ended.

    Kamen Rider Decade only did 30 out of the usual 50 episodes those shows do, and needed a half dozen movies to attempt (and fail) to explain the story.

    Anzekay on
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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Eva and Madoka clearly told their complete story arcs and had endings in their TV runs (maligned though Eva's TV ending sometimes is), there wasn't anything more to explain without retelling the ending in a different more robot-fighty way in one case, or expanding on the existing story in what amounted to a sequel in the other. That feels way different.

    Anzekay on
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  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    All I'm saying is 'pay for the movie to see the real story' has been a thing for a while.

    Anzekay on
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  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    The Demon Slayer movie made $Texas, so I can see why.

    Anzekay on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited April 13
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Anzekay on
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Reynolds wrote: »
    All I'm saying is 'pay for the movie to see the real story' has been a thing for a while.

    and I'm saying those two are terrible examples of it!

    Anzekay on
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  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Maybe in the anime thread timeline, but in the movie thread timeline they're great examples.

    Anzekay on
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  • McHogerMcHoger Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    On a random kick, I decided to finish watching Lupin Part 4 and found TMS uploaded the whole thing on Youtube. It uses a different opening for the US release. And like, it's not the Lupin theme, but its also really good. I can't stop listening to it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ9c0nxZxz0

    Anzekay on
  • SkeithSkeith Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Someone high up with the LA Chargers is a huge fucking nerd

    Anzekay on
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  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Shock!

    rtno5ocantbx.png

    Kuma Shock!

    Anzekay on
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