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Join us in the [Anime] thread to end all [Anime] threads

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Posts

  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Zek wrote: »
    Her voice sounds fine to me. I bet native Japanese speakers think Suletta's voice is pretty ridiculous. Same goes for most anime, the voice acting is all cornball as fuck, and it's the people who don't speak the language who can't tell.

    She's almost impossible to listen to half the time, like a selective speech impediment, made the whole show awkward and difficult to watch. Miorine carried the show hard for me talking some sense into her. But I think the authors knew exactly what they were doing, they constantly set up awkward social situations for her to trip though and make you feel terrible.

    That said, as usual, the Japanese cast express emotion in their own stylized and cliched way, while the English cast falls flat. I don't begrudge anyone preferring a language they actually understand, but the dubs rarely bring comparable acting quality. Cartoons call for a bit of overacting really, and most English dubs are well under.
    Lars wrote: »
    Witch from Mercury spoilers and speculation
    So I've seen a lot of theories about the time skip between the prologue and the series, and whether or not Suletta is Eri or not. There have been a bunch of theories put forth, most of which involve Eri being Aerial now and Suletta is a clone or her leftover body with a new consciousness, or a person wholesale created with 100% Gund technology.

    Some have hope that Suletta is Eri, and she got put into suspended animation or something at some point to explain her age.

    But I just saw one that makes me want to rewatch the series and see if it holds up:

    What if Lady Prospera is Eri? (edit: though offhand I can already think of two characters that at least believe Prospera is Elnora)

    Finally caught up so I can comment now.
    Prospera is at minimum 30ish just by the way she is drawn. Young characters are coded differently in this show.

    Besides the Eri-Aerial thing is too obvious, they sound the same. Even if its not a real link, the authors want to lead the audience in that direction at a minimum.

    But who even said Eri was a normal person to begin with. Those two big dark marks that look like second eyebrows have yet to be explained.

    P.S. isn't the masked person in Gundam always a tragically heroic antagonist? I'm expecting some real bullshit from Prospera at some point.

    P.P.S. was Miorine that showed up at school early and then took the ship to Quattra a fake/clone? She behaved way too level-headed most of the time, but there were signs of her getting slowly pissed off at Suletta while they were on the ship. If this was all supposed to be a misunderstanding planted by Elan then I think the writers may have pushed her too far out of character just to set up Suletta's despair.

    Anzekay on
  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited April 13

    That said, as usual, the Japanese cast express emotion in their own stylized and cliched way, while the English cast falls flat. I don't begrudge anyone preferring a language they actually understand, but the dubs rarely bring comparable acting quality. Cartoons call for a bit of overacting really, and most English dubs are well under.

    nah

    Anzekay on
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    I'd agree with rahkeesh in general, I don't have a strong opinion about this particular show but many dubs are not up to the same level of quality of acting for whatever reason, being rushed, bad direction, just struggling with the timing that doesn't work well in another language, whatever. I know they CAN reach the same highs though because I've seen good dubs too. (and native english cartoons are typically better quality acting too, it's also probably much easier to act when the animation is timed for the language)

    Anzekay on
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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    I'd agree with rahkeesh in general, I don't have a strong opinion about this particular show but many dubs are not up to the same level of quality of acting for whatever reason, being rushed, bad direction, just struggling with the timing that doesn't work well in another language, whatever. I know they CAN reach the same highs though because I've seen good dubs too. (and native english cartoons are typically better quality acting too, it's also probably much easier to act when the animation is timed for the language)

    They just put in the budget. Better actors that are better paid, better direction, more context, more takes, editing the animation (really not that hard for anime flaps, even DBZ managed that much.) FF7 Remake is an example that has some great English at least for the main cast. It can be done when the companies care, they just rarely do.

    Don't get intimidated by the semantic content being gobbly gook. A lot of emotional intonation is semi-universal and much of the feel comes through. English being cringe or cheese or overly literal is rarely the biggest struggle with dubs, its a lack of appropriate affect and timing.

    Anzekay on
  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Shows are usually built around the original voice acting, and if the localisation isn't given enough love, it's like they're basically outnumbered in terms of help available to make the voice acting shine. With enough work, time and care, (and money), it can work.

    Also regarding "you are just too bad at the other language to know if its good or not". Lol. Lmao.

    Anzekay on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    I know DBZ:Abridged edited flaps, but did DBZ proper actually do it? Editing flaps is a huge expense for very little gain, so while DBZ is probably the one anime I wouldn't be surprised that did it, I'd just assume the VAs worked around the existing flaps like they do for the rest of the shows.

    Anzekay on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited April 13
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Anzekay on
  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited April 13
    I've witnesses the subs vs dubs debate for about two decades now and it exhausts me as much now as it did after just a few years, so I suppose I am disinclined towards taking sweeping remarkes about the quality of one of another seriously at this point. I've watched a lot of dubs over the years that I consider to be very good both from a personal and technical standpoint. Are there probably a lot of bad dubs out there? Sure, much like there's a lot of bad <insert media form here> out there.

    I don't begrudge anyone preferring a language they actually understand, but the dubs rarely bring comparable acting quality.

    Also I just find this sort of statement incredibly condescending not only to anyone in this thread but also the English VA industry as a whole.

    Anzekay on
  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    I cant really compare them cos I always watch original language of a work but actual English animated shows have definitely reached a comparable level of VA quality.

    Anzekay on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Mill wrote: »
    Didn't CN do that for a few of the early anime that they ran on Toonami and Adult Swim?

    Granted, wouldn't surprise me if lip flap editing ends up getting cheaper as it gets cheaper and more efficient to offload tasks to AI. Like AI might be able to do a really damn good job of syncing lip flaps with VA dialogue in the future, if it isn't already capable of it now and do it really cheaply as well.

    The only editing I remember CN doing was digital swimsuits, but maybe that was the only because of how noticeable it was and if there was any lip flap editing it passed me by. I know 4Kids did similar censorship editing, but most of their attempts were blatantly obvious hack-jobs.

    Anzekay on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited April 13
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Anzekay on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited April 13
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Anzekay on
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Dubs have been good for like 15 years at least now.

    I’m so tired of the old “English VAs don’t have emotion” argument cause it’s basically never true.

    Anzekay on
  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited April 13


    Things are looking rough for Chainsawman.

    Anzekay on
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  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Dang.

    Anzekay on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    It got outsold by basically every other new show, and several returning shows. I think one was in its fourth season, even.

    The numbers would be bad but recoverable for a smaller series, but for a high profile one that they obviously spent a ton of money on, it's a killer...except they're so deep in the only option is to push forward with the next season and hope. Probably with a budget cut and new director.

    Anzekay on
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  • localhjaylocalhjay Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    I bet you that the western audience appetite for the series will protect it somewhat from what would be a death knell for any other series

    Still, that is impressively bad

    Anzekay on
  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    That is insanely disappointing. I couldn't have been happier and more impressed with how the anime turned out, but I guess the BD+DVD consuming population of Japan disagreed.

    If this prevents us from reaching the ending of Chainsaw Man, or even just the ending in style, I'll probably just complain forever since there's nothing I can actually do about it.

    Is it possible people just don't buy DVDs anymore?

    Anzekay on
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    So is Chainsaw Man much more popular outside of Japan than in it?

    Anzekay on
  • localhjaylocalhjay Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    So is Chainsaw Man much more popular outside of Japan than in it?

    The word of mouth around the anime adaptation there is very bad, Twitter in Japan went off about it. Mostly that it's not as faithful an adaptation as it could have been. Which I tend to agree with, somewhat, but I still liked the end product.

    Anzekay on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Speaking of code switching to English, I was reminded of the best joke in Hitoribocchi, which made me laugh so hard I had to pause.
    They're in English class and the teacher has Aru, who despite being kind of a klutz tries to project a general air of responsibility and competence as the class vice rep, read a passage from their English text out loud.
    She reads it, and the first part of the joke is that the text she's reading is the English translation of the previous scene.
    Then the teacher says that was good but he'd actually wanted her to read the next page*, which point she dramatically thinks, in English,
    r33hs3h0dl1a.gif
    Which is especially funny given they're like 12 and her outward personality.

    *That would have been weirdly recursive if she's read the correct page, because it would imply that the text he wanted her to read, was the text of her reading the text.
    How did they do that in the dub? Did they do Japanese, or use Spanish or something?

    Anzekay on
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  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    It's a shame, it's one of the best shows I've ever seen.


    But it's huge here(go to any con and see all the cosplayers) and the manga keeps selling out of run after run(from talking to local comic shop owners), so I think it'll be fine.


    I'm also reading that other shows with constant renewals did pretty badly on BR(Demon Slayer, Vinland Saga), so yeah, probably no big deal.

    Anzekay on
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  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    I just hope this doesn't cause massive executive meddling in the back half of the show, because each arc compounds on the previous one in madness and quality.

    Anzekay on
  • localhjaylocalhjay Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Personally I'd wait for a fancy box set of the complete part 1 for CSM if I wanted to own it, but I know Japanese fans are built different

    Anzekay on
  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    I honestly never would have considered that disk sales are a primary factor for anime in 2023

    Anzekay on
  • JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    I've read a few things that basically say the entire anime industry runs on BD profits and everything else is secondary, various articles tend to blame that for <anime trend you don't like>

    Anzekay on
    Steam | SW-0844-0908-6004 and my Switch code
  • ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    JayKaos wrote: »
    I've read a few things that basically say the entire anime industry runs on BD profits and everything else is secondary, various articles tend to blame that for <anime trend you don't like>

    My understanding is that this used to be true, and it still matters to an extent for some series, but that studios are increasingly looking into different funding models to get away from being a slave to blu ray sales, mostly via co-production with streaming services and hefty $$$ per deliverable episode.

    Anzekay on
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  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    I think Crunchyroll partnered on Chainsaw Man? Maybe they just advertised it heavily, since I can't find anything doing some light Googling.

    Anzekay on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    Personally I'd wait for a fancy box set of the complete part 1 for CSM if I wanted to own it, but I know Japanese fans are built different

    Somehow their industry still thrives on selling single released volumes at 1990s prices(though you get fancy LEs, so there's that).

    The only attempts at localization those kinds of releases have usually been Aniplex things, a la Heaven's Feel and Garden of Sinners.

    Anzekay on
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  • Andy JoeAndy Joe We claim the land for the highlord! The AdirondacksRegistered User regular
    edited April 13
    That said, as usual, the Japanese cast express emotion in their own stylized and cliched way, while the English cast falls flat.

    Funny, I often feel Japanese VAs overact a bit too much.

    Anzekay on
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  • localhjaylocalhjay Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    I think both have strength and weaknesses. For instance I think JP Goku's voice is one of the most grating things ever, and the dub voice adds a lot more nuance to the character imo. And I've watched Cowboy Bebop dozens of times and the dub is just... Straight up better. The JP voice for Spike is a little too Lupin, a little too goofy for me. But that being said, most of the time, the sub is superior. Dub quality has gone up over time, but I'll say I've never been a fan of Netflix's dubbing

    Anzekay on
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I read something in response to that thing about CSM sales that they're a bit skewed cause they don't include the Mappa special edition that has a bunch of extra stuff included. Which is sold out fwiw.

    Yeah, I saw something about how the Mappa special edition is sold direct from Mappa's website, so it's not included in the overall sales numbers.

    Anzekay on
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    This content has been removed.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Opty wrote: »
    I know DBZ:Abridged edited flaps, but did DBZ proper actually do it? Editing flaps is a huge expense for very little gain, so while DBZ is probably the one anime I wouldn't be surprised that did it, I'd just assume the VAs worked around the existing flaps like they do for the rest of the shows.

    Anime dubs never edit the animation as far as I know. ... other than changing text sometimes. Or censoring things like tits or booze or cigarettes or guns or low cut tops...

    But not lip flaps.

    Anzekay on
    BahamutZERO.gif
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited April 13
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Anzekay on
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    I added that fast enough that your quote caught my edit, nice, munkus defeated

    Anzekay on
    BahamutZERO.gif
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Opty wrote: »
    I know DBZ:Abridged edited flaps, but did DBZ proper actually do it? Editing flaps is a huge expense for very little gain, so while DBZ is probably the one anime I wouldn't be surprised that did it, I'd just assume the VAs worked around the existing flaps like they do for the rest of the shows.

    Anime dubs never edit the animation as far as I know. ... other than changing text sometimes. Or censoring things like tits or booze or cigarettes or guns or low cut tops...

    ??? They edit it all the time. Every single Yu-gi-oh card from the original series had to be edited for the entire time it was on screen. Because it's against the law in the US to have a product for children directly advertised on a show like that. So they had to be card simulacrums.

    Wait what?

    Anzekay on
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited April 13
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Anzekay on
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited April 13
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Opty wrote: »
    I know DBZ:Abridged edited flaps, but did DBZ proper actually do it? Editing flaps is a huge expense for very little gain, so while DBZ is probably the one anime I wouldn't be surprised that did it, I'd just assume the VAs worked around the existing flaps like they do for the rest of the shows.

    Anime dubs never edit the animation as far as I know. ... other than changing text sometimes. Or censoring things like tits or booze or cigarettes or guns or low cut tops...

    ??? They edit it all the time. Every single Yu-gi-oh card from the original series had to be edited for the entire time it was on screen. Because it's against the law in the US to have a product for children directly advertised on a show like that. So they had to be card simulacrums.

    Wait what?

    What part of the statement is confusing?

    Ah, I wasn't aware of the advertising bit leading to edits of cards... in a show about cards, and I'm confused how that works.

    Anzekay on
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