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For those who don't know, forums.penny-arcade.com will be closing soon. However, we're doing the same kind of stuff over at coin-return.org with (almost) all the same faces! Please do feel welcome to join us.
For those who don't know, forums.penny-arcade.com will be closing soon. However, we're doing the same kind of stuff over at coin-return.org with (almost) all the same faces! Please do feel welcome to join us.
For those who don't know, forums.penny-arcade.com will be closing soon. However, we're doing the same kind of stuff over at coin-return.org with (almost) all the same faces! Please do feel welcome to join us.
For those who don't know, forums.penny-arcade.com will be closing soon. However, we're doing the same kind of stuff over at coin-return.org with (almost) all the same faces! Please do feel welcome to join us.
VOTE NOW - Coin Return Forum Rules - open until March 25th
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However, throughout the process we have also repeatedly noted that this is (edit: also) intended to be a space for people who might wish to join us.
That doesn't mean we need to treat the rules as codifying every last facet of interactions that are expected, as though the person literally hit 13 and joined their first internet website that morning, but a simple statement (in the FAQ as a clarification, as noted) where nudity might be permitted doesn't seem unreasonable.
As I said, if someone was working on their artistic skills and wanted feedback or to share something they're proud of in the artist's corner, where the subject happened to be a nude person (drawn or photographed), cool.
'Look at this incredible dick!' in a random chat thread probably isn't going to fly, no matter how spectacular this particular slab of meat happened to be.
What about a tasteful nude in silhouette as an avatar or part of a signature?
A famous piece of art that includes nudity?
Hunter Biden's wang because the GOP brings that back up again for entry into the public and congressional record?
Etc.
I agree that trying to craft an exhaustive list is futile, and also just gives people new and exciting ways to toe the line, which by the rules should get them slapped down, but becomes a whack-a-mole game all the same. There are online communities where adults sharing adult content isn't frowned upon. As has often been said, CoRe is not PA, and so retaining assumptions about what might or might not be welcome without, well... corporate overlords to consider, seems relevant.
Being separate and no longer having to worry about what a public entity worries about is freeing, but 'and there are limits to that freedom' seems like something worth capturing.
Yes, there's are rules against folks going too far, posting actual illegal content, but there are plenty of things that are both legal and questionable to share with a bunch of folks who are, to be honest, probably more likely to be browsing from/during work than not.
We've seen the activity graph showcasing that the vast majority happens from the morning Eastern time to the evening Pacific, but one need not participate for long to notice that things pick up and drop off considerably around standard business hours either, barring something particularly massive happening in the evening.
We discussed this pretty heavily and ultimately our decision reflects the following ideas/beliefs/feelings:
-- If we want our art forum to permit "tasteful nudity" we absolutely can't have the site be 13+ for members. There are users in this current community who immediately put their professional lives at risk if we attempt to serve both of these requests, so we've opted to prioritize our current users over any potential minors joining CoRe.
-- The only true section of the CoRe forums that should even be posting nudity is the art forum and if we as a community hold to that, CoRe should (in theory) be safe for workplace browsing, because as long as you avoid opening up art threads at work you shouldn't be seeing any nudity while at your place of employ.
-- If nudity is being posted, we'd hope it was being put under spoilers(?)
But separate from that, I'd argue that we shouldn't view CoRe within a system of age categorization (PG-13, TV-14, Rated-R, ect...). Rather we should be identifying our community as "workplace safe."
And for those who think CoRe should be open to minors, beyond the can of worms that accompany that decision, do you actually want minors on CoRe?
yeah...
*Caveat: Just because one user works in a brothel does not etc
It's been an issue all along. Personally, I haven't really participated in any of these threads because I don't have the energy to argue against the push back re: jewish voices mattering. I have followed the discussion, and voted against the rules because of my concerns.
I'm of the mind that the rules were written in good faith, and I'll give the rules (and their application) a chance to prove me wrong. However, nothing about this process or the related discussions have indicated to me that anything will change from the current setup, where folks were bullied out of threads and subforums, called liars, etc. for asking for what I consider basic decency.
Thank you for writing this up. It will probably go through some editing, but yeah this was absolutely the intent. I apologize to others for not being able to say it as succinctly without all the messy discussions that have happened in various places about it.
I won't try to change your mind as it is not my place. I can tell you I witnessed those same discussions and was very much involved with many of them. I don't think it solves all of the issues as many of them are unsolvable by us here. I will say the rules were drafted with certain aspect of it are meant to be explicitly not allowed. Specifically the calling people liars and trying to chase them out of areas should not be as much of an issue. I am not happy that some of the solution relies on the ability to ignore threads, but I also think it is the best compromise we could have.
I think we'll have to face the fact that this is a US heavy forum, and following their rules on nudity is just the path of least resistance.
If you want to allow drawn nudity, and those threads at any point amount to 33% of the forum by whatever metric, I suspect that Texas House Bill 1181 would require each user to use their ID to verify that they're 18+ before getting even read-only access to the forum?
(I Am Not A Lawyer, though. This is why Pornhub et. al. have IP blocks for like 18 US states, since they don't want to bother with the hassle.)
Note that currently the law only cares about actual nudity, as far as I can tell, so the standard Texas GOP assumption that "LGBTQ+ is inherently sexual & offensive to minors" probably doesn't apply. (Yet.) But when they do, well, that 33% looks a lot more realistic.
If we get to the point where user art reaches the point of being 33% of the forum by any metric we will be such a vastly different forum we would want an entirely new set of rules to govern it.
"We will not argue about Black Square or whether it constitutes art and the beginning of modern abstract or if it's just a fucking black square, if it was hung in a museum, it is art. Yes, that includes the duct-tape banana and the tinned poop"
Not that any such system has been specified yet.
They're still trying to figure out how to do age verification, although the 16- social media ban using the same system starts being enforced at the end of the year.
Yeah, We have the Australian law on the radar, but at the moment, it's just very unclear what we're supposed to do with it.
We're also hoping that XenForo's default implementation will take care of it. But we'll figure something out to make sure Aussies can still lawfully login if not.
I don't know what exactly we'll do if the law turns out to be "Ask for their government ID if they're Australian" cause we're not really setup to store that data, nor would I recognize a faked ID from a real one. (would it be good enough to have a "seen and verified" indicator? But then, how do you prove that unless you keep a copy?)
If something like that ends up being necessary, my feeling is that there will almost certainly be a third party processor that can handle it that we can contract with. Because I agree, I certainly wouldn't want to actually be handling member's IDs and be responsible for verifying and storing them. Either way, it's a bridge to cross once anyone actually knows more about how it all shakes out.
I do know someone who has setup an age verification system that is entirely hands off for a kink discord server. I could probably get the details from her if that ever helps. I think it is fully automated so no one even needs to manually check it for a properly scanned ID. I could be wrong on that one.
Linking to articles that use AI images especially as more prevalent in say news and what not is the nebulous area but we don't need AI on Coin Return.
Dont make Mods be digital Cops.
Yep, it included all the possible options for moderator actions, as well as what level of moderator team consensus is required for each type of action.
No flame jobs or big spoilers or anything like that, just some tasteful pinstriping, maybe a little chrome...
I know it's probably an autocorrect, don't care
I most have read that more than 10 times to make sure it was exactly what I was trying to say and missed that completely.
... challenge accepted?
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Have we argued about the Oxford comma yet? I stopped paying attention a couple months ago.
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