An interesting thought.

Tucanwarrior13

This statement I'm going to make is in not a knock on Christians. I myself am Catholic, but this is an observation I've made recently.

Does it seem to anyone else that people who are not religious at all know immensely more about The Christian Bible than do devout Christians who feel the need to voice their opinion in an overly ignorant fashion?

Irond Will

I've known a good number of Christians who study the Bible quite arduously, though I also think that holding a specific interpretation and belief probably does confer a lack of perspective on alternative interpretations and beliefs.

But I will say that the Canadians I talk to seem to be more up on the American government and news than Americans.

Shinto

Yeah, but hating America is the basis of their national identity.

Tucanwarrior13

Irond Will wrote: »

I've known a good number of Christians who study the Bible quite arduously, though I also think that holding a specific interpretation and belief probably does confer a lack of perspective on alternative interpretations and beliefs.

But I will say that the Canadians I talk to seem to be more up on the American government and news than Americans.

I'm not saying that NO Christian has ever taken the time to read the Bible. I've studied it, and read it from as many points of thought as I possibly could. I love taking new perspectives, and trying to fit it somewhere into my form of thinking.

I was just trying to state that many of the people I know who condemn those to Hell have actually never picked up the damn thing. But, I could very well be wrong.

ALocksly

I chalk it up to the fact that only the chrisitans who really read and think about what they are reading come the conclusion that at least some of it is B.S.

which ofen leads to more reading and thinking.

repeat

Tucanwarrior13

ALocksly wrote: »

I chalk it up to the fact that only the chrisitans who really read and think about what they are reading come the conclusion that at least some of it is B.S.

which ofen leads to more reading and thinking.

repeat

I think the bible is something that should be taken from ones own point of perspective. Religion of course is an opinion, which means the material you read on your religion should be taken as the same. I've read the entire bible, and put parts aside that I thought didn't fit into me. I hate it when someone tries to say that every word in the bible is concrete. I think whatever group of people who wrote it would laugh hysterically if they heard that.

Double_Faces

I think, especially in this country, that when a person is surrounded by such a heavily endorsed topic like a religion, and they don't subscribe to it, I believe that they are more inclined to study the finer points of it for whatever reason.

I know when I had numerous Mormon friends I studied the book of Mormon and ended up knowing the details better than they did.

Non-Christians in this country are surrounded by a culture that they are not a part of. I don't believe it is strange that it would be studied by them.

BlackDog85

Good point; when you find yourself often attacked for something, or at least often find yourself in a defensive position in an argument, you're going to be inclined to study up on the subject matter.

That said, I'll always be grateful to my junior year theology teacher. The guy was clearly religious (Catholic school), but also an incredibly intelligent guy. Taught the class to read the Bible in an analytical way, to not take it all literally. I remember being shocked at a couple kids hearing him say that, then saying "You mean Adam and Eve weren't real?" God, I knew they weren't real when I was a kid, and my religious Catholic mother taught me that!

That guy basically showed me that an intelligent, reasoning person could still have some religious convictions. I may not be particularly religious, but I deeply admire that.

Koekjes

BlackDog85 wrote: »

Good point; when you find yourself often attacked for something, or at least often find yourself in a defensive position in an argument, you're going to be inclined to study up on the subject matter.

That said, I'll always be grateful to my junior year theology teacher. The guy was clearly religious (Catholic school), but also an incredibly intelligent guy. Taught the class to read the Bible in an analytical way, to not take it all literally. I remember being shocked at a couple kids hearing him say that, then saying "You mean Adam and Eve weren't real?" God, I knew they weren't real when I was a kid, and my religious Catholic mother taught me that!

That guy basically showed me that an intelligent, reasoning person could still have some religious convictions. I may not be particularly religious, but I deeply admire that.

Can you imagine what this world would be like if more people approached religion and a lot of other things like this?

Public schools need a mandatory theology class that focus on all major religions. The influence religion has had on this world is too strong for people to be dealing with it with so little information. Its too bad that so many people would have a cow if the class didn't approach their religion from their point of view.

FirstComradeStalin

Koekjes wrote: »

BlackDog85 wrote: »

Good point; when you find yourself often attacked for something, or at least often find yourself in a defensive position in an argument, you're going to be inclined to study up on the subject matter.

That said, I'll always be grateful to my junior year theology teacher. The guy was clearly religious (Catholic school), but also an incredibly intelligent guy. Taught the class to read the Bible in an analytical way, to not take it all literally. I remember being shocked at a couple kids hearing him say that, then saying "You mean Adam and Eve weren't real?" God, I knew they weren't real when I was a kid, and my religious Catholic mother taught me that!

That guy basically showed me that an intelligent, reasoning person could still have some religious convictions. I may not be particularly religious, but I deeply admire that.

Can you imagine what this world would be like if more people approached religion and a lot of other things like this?

Public schools need a mandatory theology class that focus on all major religions. The influence religion has had on this world is too strong for people to be dealing with it with so little information. Its too bad that so many people would have a cow if the class didn't approach their religion from their point of view.

This would be pretty awesome. I read the Bible when I realized it was the single most important piece of literature in the Western world, if not the world itself. And that Jesus was the single most influential person in history. Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, and Judaism are all fascinating from a historical perspective because of the ideas that they reflected in the people that believed in them.

Muttnik

That was my feeling as well. I am not religious but generally do no find fault in intelligent religious folk who are critical thinkers and examine their own work. Sad that there seem very few of them, but then again heavily critical thinkers are rare when it comes to matters of ideology.

Religious works are absolutely fascinating to me.

Double_Faces

Muttnik wrote: »

That was my feeling as well. I am not religious but generally do no find fault in intelligent religious folk who are critical thinkers and examine their own work. Sad that there seem very few of them, but then again heavily critical thinkers are rare when it comes to matters of ideology.

Religious works are absolutely fascinating to me.

Yeah.


I read them on the toilet.

Muttnik

Do you feel both enlightened and relieved afterwards?

Double_Faces

Yes.



Holy Shit.

Veegeezee

I dunno. To turn it around, I know a few Christians who are at least as familiar with the physics behind the big bang theory as a big chunk of the folks in the atheist and agnostic categories are. And I hear a great deal of ignorantly fashioned argument along the lines of "it's science, get with the program!" from folks who haven't really done the math.

Maybe it would be valid to suggest, more generally, that zeal and misinformation often coincide?

DoctorArch

Basic rule of debate, know your subject in and out before you tear it apart. That way you have a proper counter-argument to any point your opponent may bring up.

ege02

Shinto wrote: »

Yeah, but hating America is the basis of their national identity.

Just like belittling Canada is part of yours, amirite?

Wonder_Hippie

Veegeezee wrote: »

I dunno. To turn it around, I know a few Christians who are at least as familiar with the physics behind the big bang theory as a big chunk of the folks in the atheist and agnostic categories are. And I hear a great deal of ignorantly fashioned argument along the lines of "it's science, get with the program!" from folks who haven't really done the math.

Maybe it would be valid to suggest, more generally, that zeal and misinformation often coincide?

What's that quote? Passion is indirectly proportional to evidence, or something like that.

Gorak

Wonder_Hippie wrote: »

Veegeezee wrote: »

I dunno. To turn it around, I know a few Christians who are at least as familiar with the physics behind the big bang theory as a big chunk of the folks in the atheist and agnostic categories are. And I hear a great deal of ignorantly fashioned argument along the lines of "it's science, get with the program!" from folks who haven't really done the math.

Maybe it would be valid to suggest, more generally, that zeal and misinformation often coincide?

What's that quote? Passion is indirectly proportional to evidence, or something like that.

passion = (x / evidence) + c

Vincent Grayson

I remember a woman I worked with explaining to me that no, she had not read the Bible, and that she didn't need to because her parents raised her right, and she already knew all she needed to know about God and his rules.

She was really something else. She also thought not baptizing your child should qualify as child abuse.

Nana

To me its entirely subjective depending upon how much you know about the matter itself.

In my experiences I have met a few people who identified themselves as Christians but knew very little about the bible (but of course that was just my perception, because I knew more than they did), but the people who I've met that know the most about the bible have identified themselves as Christians as well.

And then in my case, coming from a very religious family, and being forced to read the bible for two-to-three hours a day as a child and attending church five nights a week, I usually know a bit more about Christianity and the bible than people I talk to. But there are quite a few people, like my Father for one, who knows a hell of a lot more than I do.

So now I identify myself as an atheist, but because of my upbringing my brain is full of useless knowledge that was shoved down my throat as a kid. I didn’t choose to learn all that crap, so I don’t consider myself an intellectual for knowing any of it. However I do have a lot of respect for people who study religion out of their own free-will, just because they want to have knowledge in it. However, the most knowledgeable atheists I know have come from situations similar to mine, the bible is a tough-read, and I don’t blame people for wanting to skim through it or not touch it at all.

BlueBlue

ege02 wrote: »

Shinto wrote: »

Yeah, but hating America is the basis of their national identity.

Just like belittling Canada is part of yours, eh?

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Nana

Vincent Grayson wrote: »

I remember a woman I worked with explaining to me that no, she had not read the Bible, and that she didn't need to because her parents raised her right, and she already knew all she needed to know about God and his rules.

She was really something else. She also thought not baptizing your child should qualify as child abuse.

I’ve seen quite a few people with the same type of opinion. My dad would always rant about luke-warm new-age Christians and their belief that all they needed to know about the bible/Christianity to get into heaven was that they had to accept Jesus as their savior.

And I've heard pastors teach exactly that, so really, what’s the point of learning anymore if that’s all you think being a Christian is about.

Randomtask

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."

Bertrand Russel

Tucanwarrior13

Veegeezee wrote: »

Maybe it would be valid to suggest, more generally, that zeal and misinformation often coincide?

I guess that's exactly what I was trying to say in my OP. People get so intensely emotional over their own beliefs that they often miss what the true meaning behind what the words are trying to convey.

I hope I didn't come across ignorantly in the OP, I was just unsure how to state my "hypothesis" if you will.

krapst78

Vincent Grayson wrote: »

I remember a woman I worked with explaining to me that no, she had not read the Bible, and that she didn't need to because her parents raised her right, and she already knew all she needed to know about God and his rules.

She was really something else. She also thought not baptizing your child should qualify as child abuse.

This reminds me of the parable in Kurt Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle

I once knew an Episcopalian lady in Newport, Rhode Island, who asked me to design and build a doghouse for her Great Dane. The lady claimed to understand God and His Ways of Working perfectly. She could not understand why anyone should be puzzled about what had been or what was going to be.

And yet, when I showed her a blueprint of the doghouse I proposed to build, she said to me, "I'm sorry, but I never could read one of those things."
"Give it to your husband or your minister to pass on to God," I said," and, when God finds a minute, I'm sure he'll explain this doghouse of mine in a way that even you can understand."

She fired me. I shall never forget her. She believed that God liked people in sailboats much better than he liked people in motorboats. She could not bear to look at a worm. When she saw a worm she screamed. She was a fool, and so am I, and so is anyone who thinks he sees what God is Doing.


I was raised as a pretty devout Catholic through my childhood (altar boy for 10 years, going to mass 6 times a week for 4 years straight, and was a catechist for 2 years) and I remember being completely surprised in College when I found out that the Roman Catholic Bible wasn't the same as the Protestant Bible. The funniest thing was that I was certified as a catechist to teach Sunday school when I hadn't even read the entire bible through once. It was only after becoming an atheist that I really took a personal interest in figuring out what that book really said.