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[SPLIT] How important is college anyway?
geckahn
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I can't figure out how people who don't go to college figure into that idea. Oh well, I guess they don't count.
People who dont go to college tend to party and fuck around quite a bit. Theyre probably fucking white trash, but it still counts.
So . .
geckahn on
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What the fuck?
I really have no idea what kind of point you were going for there. Just seemed weird, like you needed to defend the lazy fuckers of the world for no apparent reason to what he was saying.
So I thought I'd chime in with that.
As far as Frats go, I would never join one, because having self respect and pledging frequently are at odds with each other . . . but one of my best friends is in a (very laid back) frat, and I chill with his brothers quite a bit, good group of guys.
So you're saying that all people with less than a bachelors under their belts are "white trash" and "lazy fuckers". Righto then.
An associates is most definitely counted as college. But yeah, as a generality, pretty much. They key here being that their are always plenty of exceptions to the rule, but if you cant get your ass at least to community college, you probably dont have your shit together.
So, you're a goddamned snob and a blinkered moron then. I'll keep that in mind.
I take it you don't know many black people.
Nope, not really.
I know advocating community college is super elitist of me, but in todays economy having some sort of post high school education, be it college or trade school, is pretty much a must if you want any sort of marketable skills. I dont know if youve noticed, but Detroit isnt exactly building any new factories, and last time I checked America has almost no textile manufacturing left.
So if you arnt blazing your own path to success, which I highly respect, and you arn't taking the established route to success, you probably dont have your shit together.
I know its a harder thing to do for people coming from low-income families. One of my good friends comes from an extremely poor background, his father died when he was a baby and his mom is a manager at mcdonalds, and hes got two other siblings. I actually had to convince him to apply to college back when we were seniors. Now he's got one year left at a pretty good four year. And I'm really happy about it. But if he hadnt taken that route and instead had opted for the path of working at the gas station and toking up too much then I'd be dissapointed, because thats just wasted fucking talent.
Well I go to school with black people, some of whom are friends of mine, and I live in the ghetto. Which has plenty of black people in it. I'm also a fan of late night fried chicken runs at the amazingly good (if youre drunk) kennedy friend chicken. I tend to be like oh, the only white person in the place, with like 30 black people, but I mean I dont really hang out with those guys, just have conversations about how slow the pakis are that run the place, and that the cash register guy looks like hes dead because we think he sleeps 2 hours a day.
And all of that is completely meaningless to whats going on. Just because your in an environment that doesnt highly regard education doesnt excuse yourself from any criticism if you dont do jack shit with your life, all it proves is that your society is fucked up.
You know what? I can't let this go. Under your stupid, childish, self-oriented view of what makes a person worthwhile, I'll have to call my brother and tell him he's a deadbeat now, seeing as he only has most of a TAFE certificate under his belt. Never mind that he's younger than me, has outearned me since leaving highschool, and is now running a successful business on ebay on top of holding down a full time job. Better tell my real estate agent father he's a shitheel for leaving school in grade 10. Although he did a one-semester marketing course at USyd when I was a little tacker, maybe that gets him off the hook? Mum's fucked though, she left after grade 10 too. Never mind that she worked until I was born as a very good legal secretary, got certified on the piano right up to whatever-the-hell they call concert-ready, and continued to hold a variety of good jobs while me and my deadbeat brother were still kids. No senior high? Trrrrash!!!
Fucker.
Oh right. He knows a guy. That makes his argument correct.
Almost as good as your black people argument. The rhetorical skills just blew me away.
They're pretty much throwing money at welders, the construction industry has -awesome- pay, car mechanics can make pretty good scratch if they get with the right group, and teamsters kick all their asses.
It's depressing, but driving around for UPS can be worth more than your college education.
I could pay off my entire college loan in less than a year and also have enough left over for a house deposit by driving a truck for the mines up north. 'course, I'd have to go drive a truck for the mines up north...
The anger.
Your brother sounds like he has his shit together. I commend him, and, ceteris paribus, respect someone like him more then someone that took the established path. It's not easy.
College/job skill training doesnt define if someone has their shit together. but it does increase the chance that they do by an absolute shit load. Particularly in todays economy. Like I already said
But since we're rocking out the random people examples, one of my dads good friends worked at a steel factory out of high school, started a family, etc. made decent money. But then he left the security of a decent union job and started a pizza place that has become ridiculously profitable. Doing something that takes massive balls and plenty of talent and drive.
As does your idiocy and ignorance.
I take it you don't understand how low-income really works. You see, low -income doesn't just mean personal finances. When you are in the projects, you do not see ANY success stories. People try and they fail, so very few people see how they have any chance for success either.
Frankly, it's why there's a disproportionate number of drug dealers in the city. It's the only real sign of success.
Now let's widen the scope.
On average, African-Americans live in lower income brackets than whites. Now a lot of blacks know that they need to go to college. However, a good percentage (I believe it's significantly higher than whites) work full time in college. They work more and more hours, and try and put off their education because they are making money and want to save so college won't be such a burden. However, the jobs they often work at are stores and wait staff, where there is little chance for progress, but now their lives cannot really accomodate for university.
Vanilla face.
I completely understand how it works. Overcoming the institutional hurdle is absolutely a huge challenge.
But that doesnt mean I'm going to say a drug dealer has their shit together. If you're constrained by children or whatever, yeah. Its hard, and I understand that. I made what was called a blanket statement, something by its very nature should not be applied to everyone.
But if you dont have a kid, there is almost no reason why you should have to work full time in school, particularly if you're poor as shit and black.
Are you saying all black people have kids in their teens? I was not even considering kids at all; I was purely taking into account living on one's own. It's fucking tough. Try going to college if you live in brooklyn. Go to CUNY. It's cheap as far as colleges go. You still have to work at least $30 a week to pay for college. And God forbid they want to go out once a week instead of staying home and studying.
There's your whole paycheck. If you can work 40-60 hours a week, suddenly you start to have a lot more cash on hand.
Poverty is aligned to the city.
Cities are expensive.
College is expensive.
Dont fucking strawman me, thanks. Its just a condition that makes doing the college thing harder, so I used it.
If you're going to a CUNY school you presumably grew up in the city, and thus have your family there. So you dont need to live on your own. Which makes it alot easier to afford school. Or you could go to a SUNY school and get a pretty much totally free ride.
I'm sure its possible to make a profile of a person that just couldnt pull it off, but that doesnt prove shit.
Because I haven't rubbed one out in a while.
Someone used the term "trash."
:oops:
sorry dudes. Yes, it was the use of the term 'trash'. I'll do a split, hold on.
*facepalm*
The dude's not some kind of superman. He's cruising at minimal effort and having fun. You don't need college to be successful, and I say that as someone with two freakin' degrees. Its just another path. Maybe there's no middle ground between Maccas and the Fortune 500 in your world, but there is in mine. And even if college made a bigger difference than it actually does, its not okay to shit on people that don't go by using the terms you used.
Even if everybody had a college degree, some of these people would have to work at gas stations, build our houses, drive trucks, etc.
edit: you cannae' build shite without 'em
Not that I condone selling drugs, but there are some out there that run drug empires that would rival some corporations. Unscrupulous yes, but some of these guys are extremely good business men in terms of the fundamentals. It makes me sad to think that they're in a position that pillages the community instead of bolstering it.
Someone else mentioned the lack of positive role models, and I think that's a big part of it.
I work for a company, who in turn works for The Man. My good friend, and immediate boss left. I have assumed all of his duties, on top of my own considerable load. I can do both jobs in a pinch, even if it does keep me pretty busy, with loads of heavy responsibility. I was even promoted to the next step up, and given an 8k a year raise.
The problem, is that I wasn't promoted into my former bosses position, which pays around 76k$ a year (quite a bit more than I make now). After some digging around, I learned I was rail-roaded by my HR department, for lack of just one thing: A college degree.
I knew my career would eventually stall out for lack of one, I just didn't figure it would be now. I'm still kinda bummed about it - I have 70 something credit hours, but no degree. Sigh.
So I guess the moral of the story: Eventually that degree will be the sole reason you get ahead in life, but it may be much later than sooner.
*P.S. there's also the tremendous emotional and social development that occurs between the ages of 18-22 for traditional students that can make it much, much easier just to live in our high-paced society.
I have a high school diploma, but that's it for training, and I work as a programmer for a data collection and tracking company. Self taught FTW.
My best friend is a mechanic who just got his ticket, bought a home and is raising a family.
Honestly, the belief that college/university is a must is hollow. It's not. Another good friend of mine has a university degree and he does the exact same work I do.
When I used to work at a video rental store a girl applied there who had a degree in psychology. Assumption though it may be to think she can't find a job in her field, but a video store? With a degree?
There's nothing wrong with going to college. There is also nothing wrong with not going to college. I am not special. Neither is my friend or my dad. Neither are my friends with degrees. At least, going or not going to college has nothing to do with how special we may or may not be.
I don't recall being lazy white trash though.
It should.
No one should get a liberal arts degree unless they plan on going to graduate school as well. If you aren't comfortable with that, get a degree in math, science, computers, business - anything else.
Shit, I dropped out of high school when I was 18.
Or, have a skill already that brings you in some cash. I do IT stuff (among other things). I have a career, so there's no pressure on my degree bringing in the jobs, i've got that angle covered.
Liberal arts degree's are fun and intresting, and if I could, I'd go for one. I think only a fortunate few get to really apply those degree's in thier careers.
O, well then you are definately lazy white trash.:P
I just felt like facts and figures would help this thread.
Eh, school simply wasn't an environment suited to me, so I dropped out and started working. Up until last year, that's all I was doing (aside from getting married, buying a house and having a few kids).
Then one day last Summer I realized that I'd likely be working a shitty job like I have now for the rest of my life if I didn't go to school, which luckily concided with discovering a passion for economics and law...so I now I'm back in school and working (both full-time), and am anything *but* lazy white trash (although I am often lazy, and usually fairly white)
I somewhat agree. I plan on going to law school after my BA, but that's just me.