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Lowest common denominator?

RaakamRaakam Too many years...CanadalandRegistered User regular
edited June 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
A few nights ago, couple friends and I were having a discussion about the internet as a whole and its potential. Clearly, the internet is essentially the biggest cesspool imaginable. While it is an incredible learning tool for those that want to use it that way, it's mostly a porn haven. This isn't news to anyone; but the weird thing, is that you can really find some disturbing and really horrifying stuff on it very easily. You don't even have to go looking for this sort of shit, it just gets spammed to your inbox anyway.

I'm sure even back in the olden egyptian days, you could find some random piece of papyrus that depicted a stick figure humping an anubis hieroglyph. We did the same with the printing press, photography, tv and movies and went for porn and violence. The web just took it to another level because it allowed direct input from everyone. Is this a proper reflection of our society, or is this what mankind is when you reduce it to the lowest common denominator? Sex and violence?

My padherder
they don't it be like it is but it do
Raakam on
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Posts

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Have you heard of bonobos and chimps?

    Incenjucar on
  • Big DookieBig Dookie Smells great! Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Eh, I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be. I remember hearing a study a while back - last year maybe - which estimated that all porn sites make up only around 10% of all content on the internet. Now, I'm not saying that the other 90% is quality material or anything, but I do think the "lowest common denominator" stuff makes up only a small minority. It isn't really representative of either the internet as a whole or those who use it.

    Big Dookie on
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  • ZenitramZenitram Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Humans like being shocked and grossed out.

    Zenitram on
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  • Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Raakam wrote: »
    Is this a proper reflection of our society, or is this what mankind is when you reduce it to the lowest common denominator? Sex and violence?

    these are our two most primal instincts. survival and procreation. we've simply gotten to a point were they are seen as being more recreational, than necessity(violence more so than sex obviously). it doesn't say anything bad about us, just that we have yet to fully evolve beyond our instinctive nature. though i guess that in itself could be taken as less than flattering.

    Wraith260 on
  • RaakamRaakam Too many years... CanadalandRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Yeah Jucar, but still, we're not exactly chimps. We're supposed to be somewhat more evolved than that, no? Maybe you're right and I'm just too stubborn to accept it. It's pretty much how our discussion ended. I dunno, it seems we should be held to a higher standard. If we've managed to come this far, it's very hrm, humbling I guess is the word to realize that we're just hairless monkies.

    Raakam on
    My padherder
    they don't it be like it is but it do
  • KetherialKetherial Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    the internet simply provides more people with the ability to express themselves freely and cheaply without serious repercussions.

    i think that's a good thing even if i dont always prefer specific forms of expression.

    sex and violence may seem to take up a lot of space on the internet, but i bet the percentage of porn on the web when compared to the entire web is not much different from the percentage of porn in a video store. same with violence.

    humans find sex and violence interesting. not necessarily a bad thing, imo.

    Ketherial on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    "More evolved" isn't really that valid a concept.

    Incenjucar on
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2007
    Raakam wrote: »
    Is this a proper reflection of our society, or is this what mankind is when you reduce it to the lowest common denominator? Sex and violence?

    I think it's what mankind is. Discover latex? Make a condom. Create television and movies? Show pornography. Invent the internet? Porn and lolcats.

    _J_ on
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    it does not seem to reason that we will evolve beyond the point of violence (or as put, survival) and sex (procreation) being what gives us the greatest rush because, if that happens, the survival of the species is put at risk.

    so, I say take the fact that sex and violence are our "lowest common denominator" and be proud that we haven't lost that bit. It's the LCD because goddamn, EVERY human can relate to it, and hence we live on.

    Variable on
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  • RaakamRaakam Too many years... CanadalandRegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    "More evolved" isn't really that valid a concept.

    I'm not sure how else to describe the fact that we use speech, have built civilizations, have a higher grasp of philosophy, physics, math etc - just figured I'd encapsulate it all in "more evolved".

    Raakam on
    My padherder
    they don't it be like it is but it do
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2007
    Raakam wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    "More evolved" isn't really that valid a concept.

    I'm not sure how else to describe the fact that we use speech, have built civilizations, have a higher grasp of philosophy, physics, math etc - just figured I'd encapsulate it all in "more evolved".

    "poorly encapsulate"

    You could argue that we have progressed further, but then you would have to argue that all of that is progress.

    Personally, i'd rather swim around in the ocean all day and fuck.

    _J_ on
  • KetherialKetherial Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Raakam wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    "More evolved" isn't really that valid a concept.

    I'm not sure how else to describe the fact that we use speech, have built civilizations, have a higher grasp of philosophy, physics, math etc - just figured I'd encapsulate it all in "more evolved".

    the way i see it, we've "evolved" sex and violence into art.

    the sex and violence that we can access now with the touch of a button is so highly refined that i doubt any "less evolved" culture could even imagine it, much less produce it on a mass scale. compare the sex and violence of our contemporary culture to that of archaic societies.

    try and tell me that's not culture.

    Ketherial on
  • Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Raakam wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    "More evolved" isn't really that valid a concept.

    I'm not sure how else to describe the fact that we use speech, have built civilizations, have a higher grasp of philosophy, physics, math etc - just figured I'd encapsulate it all in "more evolved".

    and torn almost as many back down again. we've waged wars over the most arbitrary reasons(when compared to a genuine need to fight for survival). with every benefit of evolution comes a down side. we've developed egos, prejudices, learned to hate and discriminate.

    in the sense of what we are capable of, then yes, i think we can say we are more evolved, but in terms of the LCD i don't think we'll ever be any better than any other animal.

    Wraith260 on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Raakam wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    "More evolved" isn't really that valid a concept.

    I'm not sure how else to describe the fact that we use speech, have built civilizations, have a higher grasp of philosophy, physics, math etc - just figured I'd encapsulate it all in "more evolved".

    We are more manipulative and aware of our surroundings.

    Couscous on
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2007
    Ketherial wrote: »
    Raakam wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    "More evolved" isn't really that valid a concept.

    I'm not sure how else to describe the fact that we use speech, have built civilizations, have a higher grasp of philosophy, physics, math etc - just figured I'd encapsulate it all in "more evolved".

    the way i see it, we've "evolved" sex and violence into art.

    the sex and violence that we can access now with the touch of a button is so highly refined that i doubt any "less evolved" culture could even imagine it, much less produce it on a mass scale. compare the sex and violence of our contemporary culture to that of archaic societies.

    try and tell me that's not culture.

    That's not culture.

    _J_ on
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2007
    What? I've never got porn in my inbox. You have to go looking for that stuff most of the time.

    The Cat on
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  • KetherialKetherial Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    _J_ wrote: »
    Ketherial wrote: »
    try and tell me that's not culture.

    That's not culture.

    Wow!-You-Did-It-Front-%5BConv.gif

    Ketherial on
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2007
    Ketherial wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Ketherial wrote: »
    try and tell me that's not culture.

    That's not culture.

    Wow!-You-Did-It-Front-%5BConv.gif

    Damn straight.

    _J_ on
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited June 2007
    The Cat wrote: »
    What? I've never got porn in my inbox. You have to go looking for that stuff most of the time.

    What are you trying to say, Cat?

    Elki on
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  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2007
    Elkamil wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    What? I've never got porn in my inbox. You have to go looking for that stuff most of the time.

    What are you trying to say, Cat?

    Just wondering if I'm missing out :o

    Srsly, all I can do is resurrect my 'we're basically chimps with delusions of grandeur, and have you seen chimps in action?' line. Also, point out that pretty much every creative pursuit ever started out as porn, right back to cave paintings.

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    The Cat wrote: »
    Srsly, all I can do is resurrect my 'we're basically chimps with delusions of grandeur, and have you seen chimps in action?' line. Also, point out that pretty much every creative pursuit ever started out as porn, right back to cave paintings.

    Gotta love that cave man stick figure with the Choco-schlong.

    Incenjucar on
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2007
    The Cat wrote: »
    Elkamil wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    What? I've never got porn in my inbox. You have to go looking for that stuff most of the time.

    What are you trying to say, Cat?

    Just wondering if I'm missing out :o

    Srsly, all I can do is resurrect my 'we're basically chimps with delusions of grandeur, and have you seen chimps in action?' line. Also, point out that pretty much every creative pursuit ever started out as porn, right back to cave paintings.

    "pretty much every" is what percent?

    _J_ on
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2007
    _J_ wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    Elkamil wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    What? I've never got porn in my inbox. You have to go looking for that stuff most of the time.

    What are you trying to say, Cat?

    Just wondering if I'm missing out :o

    Srsly, all I can do is resurrect my 'we're basically chimps with delusions of grandeur, and have you seen chimps in action?' line. Also, point out that pretty much every creative pursuit ever started out as porn, right back to cave paintings.

    "pretty much every" is what percent?

    All of them. Cave painting, sculpture, painting-painting, poetry, the novel, dance, music, film, and the internets. The only exceptions so far have been the mass-broadcasts, where the government muscled in early, and telegrams, because its hard to write porn when every sentence ends in STOP and the sentence structure is so abbreviated. Hilarious, though.

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2007
    The Cat wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    Elkamil wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    What? I've never got porn in my inbox. You have to go looking for that stuff most of the time.

    What are you trying to say, Cat?

    Just wondering if I'm missing out :o

    Srsly, all I can do is resurrect my 'we're basically chimps with delusions of grandeur, and have you seen chimps in action?' line. Also, point out that pretty much every creative pursuit ever started out as porn, right back to cave paintings.

    "pretty much every" is what percent?

    All of them. Cave painting, sculpture, painting-painting, poetry, the novel, dance, music, film, and the internets. The only exceptions so far have been the mass-broadcasts, where the government muscled in early, and telegrams, because its hard to write porn when every sentence ends in STOP and the sentence structure is so abbreviated. Hilarious, though.

    Do you consider the creation of cars and toasters a creative pursuit?

    _J_ on
  • FirstComradeStalinFirstComradeStalin Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Isn't like 40% of the internet bandwith usage just from BitTorrent? And, I'm pretty sure that's just used for porn, right? It's not the same as going to sexwithchimps.com (as I typed that I wondered if it's real (for the love of god no one find out if it is or not)), but it's still porn, mostly. Or illegal downloads.

    FirstComradeStalin on
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  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2007
    _J_ wrote: »
    Do you consider the creation of cars and toasters a creative pursuit?
    Involves sculpture, an art form that started with pornish portrayals of fertility goddesses and the like. ANd bear in mind that I'm not claiming that porn is a bad thing - its just human nature to relate most everything back to sex.

    Also, take your pedantry and shove it right up your ass. You're not going to stupid up another thread with your bullshit.

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2007
    Isn't like 40% of the internet bandwith usage just from BitTorrent? And, I'm pretty sure that's just used for porn, right? It's not the same as going to sexwithchimps.com (as I typed that I wondered if it's real (for the love of god no one find out if it is or not)), but it's still porn, mostly. Or illegal downloads.

    parrotsex.com is real.

    _J_ on
  • FirstComradeStalinFirstComradeStalin Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    The Cat wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Do you consider the creation of cars and toasters a creative pursuit?
    Involves sculpture, an art form that started with pornish portrayals of fertility goddesses and the like. ANd bear in mind that I'm not claiming that porn is a bad thing - its just human nature to relate most everything back to sex.

    Also, take your pedantry and shove it right up your ass. You're not going to stupid up another thread with your bullshit.

    I know people who work in Industrial Design. If you think toasters and especially cars don't involve some modicum of creativity, you will find yourself sorely mistaken.

    FirstComradeStalin on
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  • YarYar Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    So can we change the thread title to "are cars and toasters art?" now? Fuck me.

    Anyway, technology and media are power. From the first cave drawing to the first Web site, the medium in question is unequivocably a human being experiencing greater power than he once knew he had. The power to create another being in effigy. The power to communicate thought across the planet anonymously. And so forth. And when men behold power, they first think "I must use this power to kill and fuck." Because that's what power ultimately means to us. More killing and more fucking.

    Yar on
  • FirstComradeStalinFirstComradeStalin Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Yar wrote: »
    So can we change the thread title to "are cars and toasters art?" now? Fuck me.

    Anyway, technology and media are power. From the first cave drawing to the first Web site, the medium in question is unequivocably a human being experiencing greater power than he once knew he had. The power to create another being in effigy. The power to communicate thought across the planet anonymously. And so forth. And when men behold power, they first think "I must use this power to kill and fuck." Because that's what power ultimately means to us. More killing and more fucking.

    And drawing pictures of those acts so that more of it may be done. It's a vicious cycle.

    FirstComradeStalin on
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  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2007
    The Cat wrote: »
    _J_ wrote: »
    Do you consider the creation of cars and toasters a creative pursuit?
    Involves sculpture, an art form that started with pornish portrayals of fertility goddesses and the like. ANd bear in mind that I'm not claiming that porn is a bad thing - its just human nature to relate most everything back to sex.

    Also, take your pedantry and shove it right up your ass. You're not going to stupid up another thread with your bullshit.

    I know people who work in Industrial Design. If you think toasters and especially cars don't involve some modicum of creativity, you will find yourself sorely mistaken.

    I didn't say they don't O_o I know what industrial design involves.

    The Cat on
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  • aquabataquabat Registered User
    edited June 2007
    I think if we ever need a D&D motto, it should be 'Chimps with Delusions of Grandeur'

    Still the best summation ever

    aquabat on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    aquabat wrote: »
    I think if we ever need a D&D motto, it should be 'Chimchars with Delusions of Grandeur'

    Still the best summation ever

    Seriously though, it's a bit odd how people spend soooo much effort trying to seperate themselves from animals.

    I mean, I'm all for trying to behave in a less obnoxious way than a chimpanzee, and with more class than a bonobo in heat, but we have to get over the fact that we're -working- to be different than our natures.

    Incenjucar on
  • AdrienAdrien Registered User
    edited June 2007
    The Cat wrote: »
    Also, point out that pretty much every creative pursuit ever started out as porn, right back to cave paintings.

    I'd take issue with "started out". We all first make art as children. I think that the desire for individual expression, or at least attention, goes deeper than simple procreative impulses.

    Sex is a major, perhaps the single most major part of life, so it's no surprise that a lot of human expression revolves around it. But they are not inextricably linked.

    Edit: As I recall, the earliest of "cave paintings" were simple handprints. Is that still true? I think that is pretty essential to human nature.

    Adrien on
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  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS
    edited June 2007
    Weren't cave paintings mostly of native animals that cave people hunted?

    O wait, I get it.

    Is it a barnyard thing?

    Shinto on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Shinto wrote: »
    Weren't cave paintings mostly of native animals that cave people hunted?

    O wait, I get it.

    Is it a barnyard thing?

    The earliest known sexual image I've heard of is this one bird man feeling very confident about himself.

    Goddamn furries.

    Incenjucar on
  • FirstComradeStalinFirstComradeStalin Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Shinto wrote: »
    Weren't cave paintings mostly of native animals that cave people hunted?

    O wait, I get it.

    Is it a barnyard thing?

    The earliest known sexual image I've heard of is this one bird man feeling very confident about himself.

    Goddamn furries.

    There is also this (NSFW):

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/76/Mercury_god.jpg

    FirstComradeStalin on
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  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2007
    Adrien wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    Also, point out that pretty much every creative pursuit ever started out as porn, right back to cave paintings.

    I'd take issue with "started out". We all first make art as children. I think that the desire for individual expression, or at least attention, goes deeper than simple procreative impulses.


    I'm speaking historically, not in terms of lifespan.

    The Cat on
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  • aquabataquabat Registered User
    edited June 2007
    can you nsfw that picture pulease?

    aquabat on
  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    edited June 2007
    He actually cant, hes jailed

    Al_wat on
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