Man. I can completely echo the sentiments about the badly-done cutscenes in general. I'm playing through Phantom Brave, and while I like the game, the cutscenes are painful to watch. Every character takes 5 seconds to pose with a different expression on their face before they deliver their lines. So, cutscenes take twice as long because every person gesticulates wildly before they actually talk.
And then there are the cutscenes from Silent Hill 1. Good game, shitty cutscenes.
For instance (taken from Gamefaqs, right after Harry wakes up in the cafe. Keep in mind he's been in a car wreck, his daughter is missing, and he's been attacked by little knife-wielding nightmare children. Every line is delivered in the flattest, most emotionless voices imaginable.):
Harry: Was I dreaming?
Officer: How do you feel?
Harry: Like I've been run over by a truck, but I'm alright, I guess.
Officer: Glad to hear it.
You from around here? Why don't you tell me what happened?
Harry: Wait a second. I'm just a tourist. I came here for a vacation. I
just got here... I don't know what happened. I'd like to find out
myself.
Officer: Uh-huh?
Harry: Have you seen a little girl? Just turned seven last month... Short,
black hair... My daughter.
Cybil: Sorry. The only person I've seen in this town is you.
Harry: Where is everybody?
Officer: I'd tell you if I knew, believe me. But from what I can tell,
something bizarre is going on. That's all I know.
Harry: Hmmm...
Cybil: What's your name?
Harry: Harry... Harry Mason.
Officer: Cybil Bennett. I'm a police officer from Brahms, the next town
over. The phones are all dead, and the radio, too. I'm going back
to call in some reinforcements.
Harry: Hmph.
Harry stands up and walks towards the door. Cybil stands up as well.
Cybil: Hold it! Where do you think you're going?
Harry turns around to face Cybil.
Harry: My daughter... I've gotta find her.
Cybil: No way! It's dangerous out there.
Harry: In that case, I need to find her now! Cheryl's my little girl. I
can't just leave her by herself.
I remember when in FFVI the character sprite would look off to the corner in deep thought that I thought it was a great leap in cutscene quality. No longer were they bound to just bowing their heads in depression!
OP reminded me instantly of Shining Force 2. Great game, awful sprite acting/cut scenes.
Fortunately, I have only fond memories of that game. I just remember the great fight graphics, and the crazy hard battles. But I played through the first chunk of Shining Force 1 again recently, and yes, there was unfortunate sprite theatre going on there. It's sure said on here a lot that everything is lost in translation, but it'd be interesting to ask a fluent Japanese speaker... are the original scripts for those Camelot Software Planning games any good?
I don't think sprite cutscenes are the problem, it's just bad game design. There's no reason not to allow players to skip through cutscenes. Important information conveyed in a cutscene or dialog ought to be available in some sort of missions/quests/log portion of a status screen. Cutscenes should exist to move the story along not make the game not fun. The same goes for dialog text, there's no reason at all it needs to paint onto the screen at first grade reading level speed. It should just paint at once and let the player read it at their own pace. Slower players can take their time (be thankful they didn't stick a sandwich in the game's disc slot) while people with normal reading levels and breeze through the dialog and get on with the game. Pausing for dratic effect is fine as long as the pause isn't long enough for me to get up and make tea. Good designs let players move forward at their own pace rather than articially throttling them so the rest of the class can keep up.
That being said, I like sprite cutscenes with their shitty emotes. Adding sparkle and flair like high res portraits is cool and all but having the sprites run around with sweat lines or dropped jaws is classic. Fullscreen cutscenes, either video or sprites, just get in the way and disrupt the flow of the game (obviously there's exceptions). I want to be in-game as much as possible and not be shuttled back and forth between "look at our awesome artwork!" and "you should thank us we didn't just use 8x8 sprites". 3D games change this dynamic around a bit since cutscenes can just take different angles than normal gameplay while using all the same models and environments.
Yeah, it's funny to go back and notice that long, annoying cutscenes with mediocre dialogue and needless exposition were not invented suddenly in 1997 when FFVII came out.
I've never been bothered by them, but it always seemed to me that people would complain about "Why all these cutscenes and unskippable conversations" during the PSX/PS2 era, when it was obvious to me at least that such things had been happening since even the NES/SNES days.
THANK YOU. I've been saying this for years. Everyone points to FF7 and Xenosaga when cutscenes come up, but they've been around for decades -- they just always used the in-game graphical assets, which we're seeing a return to now anyway.
Except that prior-gen cutscenes existed to convey story while those of the 32-bit era often aimed for nothing other than looking pretty. For the record, even the most slightly sad story progression in FFVI is more tragic than Aeris' death--because actual exposition and dialogue do a lot more for pathos than watching some dude lower a woman into knee-deep water that she sinks 30 feet down into.
Blitz Rawket on
0
Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
edited June 2007
Sprite based cutscenes are still around. Mario and Luigi partners in time used them the entire time. All they had for their animations was their jump, in game battle, plus about three extra others for each character.
I thought they were quite charming and full of personality.
Man. I can completely echo the sentiments about the badly-done cutscenes in general. I'm playing through Phantom Brave, and while I like the game, the cutscenes are painful to watch. Every character takes 5 seconds to pose with a different expression on their face before they deliver their lines. So, cutscenes take twice as long because every person gesticulates wildly before they actually talk.
And then there are the cutscenes from Silent Hill 1. Good game, shitty cutscenes.
For instance (taken from Gamefaqs, right after Harry wakes up in the cafe. Keep in mind he's been in a car wreck, his daughter is missing, and he's been attacked by little knife-wielding nightmare children. Every line is delivered in the flattest, most emotionless voices imaginable.):
Harry: Was I dreaming?
Officer: How do you feel?
Harry: Like I've been run over by a truck, but I'm alright, I guess.
Officer: Glad to hear it.
You from around here? Why don't you tell me what happened?
Harry: Wait a second. I'm just a tourist. I came here for a vacation. I
just got here... I don't know what happened. I'd like to find out
myself.
Officer: Uh-huh?
Harry: Have you seen a little girl? Just turned seven last month... Short,
black hair... My daughter.
Cybil: Sorry. The only person I've seen in this town is you.
Harry: Where is everybody?
Officer: I'd tell you if I knew, believe me. But from what I can tell,
something bizarre is going on. That's all I know.
Harry: Hmmm...
Cybil: What's your name?
Harry: Harry... Harry Mason.
Officer: Cybil Bennett. I'm a police officer from Brahms, the next town
over. The phones are all dead, and the radio, too. I'm going back
to call in some reinforcements.
Harry: Hmph.
Harry stands up and walks towards the door. Cybil stands up as well.
Cybil: Hold it! Where do you think you're going?
Harry turns around to face Cybil.
Harry: My daughter... I've gotta find her.
Cybil: No way! It's dangerous out there.
Harry: In that case, I need to find her now! Cheryl's my little girl. I
can't just leave her by herself.
Cybil: Have you got a gun?
Harry: Ummm... no.
Well, that's mostly due to the shitty voice acting and PS1 real-time 3Dness. You could make a case for all of the dialogue sounding slightly unreal and not how a normal person would react by just looking at the theme of the series: nobody's ever really sure if they're awake or dreaming. You say completely insane stuff in your dreams, right? Just last night in a dream I got angry and yelled "YOU'RE THE ONE WHO KISSED ME, IT WASN'T ME!" at a girl who kissed me. It's kind of the same thing for Silent Hill. :P
Yeah, it's funny to go back and notice that long, annoying cutscenes with mediocre dialogue and needless exposition were not invented suddenly in 1997 when FFVII came out.
I've never been bothered by them, but it always seemed to me that people would complain about "Why all these cutscenes and unskippable conversations" during the PSX/PS2 era, when it was obvious to me at least that such things had been happening since even the NES/SNES days.
THANK YOU. I've been saying this for years. Everyone points to FF7 and Xenosaga when cutscenes come up, but they've been around for decades -- they just always used the in-game graphical assets, which we're seeing a return to now anyway.
Except that prior-gen cutscenes existed to convey story while those of the 32-bit era often aimed for nothing other than looking pretty. For the record, even the most slightly sad story progression in FFVI is more tragic than Aeris' death--because actual exposition and dialogue do a lot more for pathos than watching some dude lower a woman into knee-deep water that she sinks 30 feet down into.
I don't think I could possibly disagree more with that statement.
*SEEING* is much better than just reading some dialogue and exposition. Showing is always better than telling. The music and imagery of that scene worked better in 1997 than it would've in 1992. And it'd be even more powerful today, I'd wager (if only because the characters would look more human and be easier to relate to)
Besides, at least with FF titles, from FFIV on, there were plenty of cutscenes showing nothing but action.
Um, I know it's an old game and all, but seriously, could you have, you know, labeled which game that was a spoiler to? I'm kind of playing through it now, and, well, thanks.
Um, I know it's an old game and all, but seriously, could you have, you know, labeled which game that was a spoiler to? I'm kind of playing through it now, and, well, thanks.
Actually, every time I see those I think "Wow, even with the limited graphical power they actually managed to put more character in these characters than most games do today..."
I guess I'd disagree - I'm amazed at how expressive a game like FFVI is with its characters with such a limited repertoire of sprites and expressions. I'm also convinced that a lot of modern games really don't use writing to build character nearly as much as they should, and use the graphics as a crutch.
Of course, we tend to remember the good games of the 16 bit era, and neglect the bad. I'm sure there were plenty of sprite based ones that were awful, too...
Well, 3d games aren't any better in the acting department.
Play Tales of Symphonia. Note that in any cutscene when any character talks,they all make the same hand motion, interparsed with awkward pausing just to walk to another spot. It will bug the hell out of you once you notice it.
Well, 3d games aren't any better in the acting department.
Play Tales of Symphonia. Note that in any cutscene when any character talks,they all make the same hand motion, interparsed with awkward pausing just to walk to another spot. It will bug the hell out of you once you notice it.
See, I like this sort of thing, and I also really enjoy what the original poster was complaining about. I like the sprite acting. Am I going to hell?
Also, off-topic, Tales of Symphonia was boring as hell to play, but had such a fun story.
Well, 3d games aren't any better in the acting department.
Play Tales of Symphonia. Note that in any cutscene when any character talks,they all make the same hand motion, interparsed with awkward pausing just to walk to another spot. It will bug the hell out of you once you notice it.
See, I like this sort of thing, and I also really enjoy what the original poster was complaining about. I like the sprite acting. Am I going to hell?
Also, off-topic, Tales of Symphonia was boring as hell to play, but had such a fun story.
???
DOES NOT COMPUTE
Pata on
Episode 5: Mecha-World, Mecha-nisim, Mecha-beasts
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited June 2007
I swear, everyone says something different about Symphonia. Some love the system, some hate the story; and now vice-versa.
I enjoyed both.
I bought a GC for that game, in fact.
(Mostly because I'm a sucker for Kousuke Fujishima.)
Well, 3d games aren't any better in the acting department.
Play Tales of Symphonia. Note that in any cutscene when any character talks,they all make the same hand motion, interparsed with awkward pausing just to walk to another spot. It will bug the hell out of you once you notice it.
See, I like this sort of thing, and I also really enjoy what the original poster was complaining about. I like the sprite acting. Am I going to hell?
Also, off-topic, Tales of Symphonia was boring as hell to play, but had such a fun story.
???
DOES NOT COMPUTE
I hated how strategy-free the battle system was, I coasted through the whole game hacking, slashing, healing, never once really feeling like I was being challenged by the battles. If nothing else, the battles where easy (I also played the whole game on the hard setting because of how easy I found it).
Well, 3d games aren't any better in the acting department.
Play Tales of Symphonia. Note that in any cutscene when any character talks,they all make the same hand motion, interparsed with awkward pausing just to walk to another spot. It will bug the hell out of you once you notice it.
See, I like this sort of thing, and I also really enjoy what the original poster was complaining about. I like the sprite acting. Am I going to hell?
Also, off-topic, Tales of Symphonia was boring as hell to play, but had such a fun story.
???
DOES NOT COMPUTE
I hated how strategy-free the battle system was, I coasted through the whole game hacking, slashing, healing, never once really feeling like I was being challenged by the battles. If nothing else, the battles where easy (I also played the whole game on the hard setting because of how easy I found it).
Which is why you try to be as stylish and thorough as possible. Create one long-ass combo then finish it with a U-Attack and Prism Star or that other one with Lloyd and Colette that hits 50 times or so.
Calaveron on
0
augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
Well, 3d games aren't any better in the acting department.
Play Tales of Symphonia. Note that in any cutscene when any character talks,they all make the same hand motion, interparsed with awkward pausing just to walk to another spot. It will bug the hell out of you once you notice it.
See, I like this sort of thing, and I also really enjoy what the original poster was complaining about. I like the sprite acting. Am I going to hell?
Also, off-topic, Tales of Symphonia was boring as hell to play, but had such a fun story.
???
DOES NOT COMPUTE
I hated how strategy-free the battle system was, I coasted through the whole game hacking, slashing, healing, never once really feeling like I was being challenged by the battles. If nothing else, the battles where easy (I also played the whole game on the hard setting because of how easy I found it).
Actually, every time I see those I think "Wow, even with the limited graphical power they actually managed to put more character in these characters than most games do today..."
I guess I'd disagree - I'm amazed at how expressive a game like FFVI is with its characters with such a limited repertoire of sprites and expressions. I'm also convinced that a lot of modern games really don't use writing to build character nearly as much as they should, and use the graphics as a crutch.
Of course, we tend to remember the good games of the 16 bit era, and neglect the bad. I'm sure there were plenty of sprite based ones that were awful, too...
As has been said earlier in the thread, FF6 has the advantage of having an incredible and varied soundtrack. I don't think some of the scenes would have had as much impact without music that actually synced up to some of the cutscenes.
Actually, every time I see those I think "Wow, even with the limited graphical power they actually managed to put more character in these characters than most games do today..."
I guess I'd disagree - I'm amazed at how expressive a game like FFVI is with its characters with such a limited repertoire of sprites and expressions. I'm also convinced that a lot of modern games really don't use writing to build character nearly as much as they should, and use the graphics as a crutch.
Of course, we tend to remember the good games of the 16 bit era, and neglect the bad. I'm sure there were plenty of sprite based ones that were awful, too...
As has been said earlier in the thread, FF6 has the advantage of having an incredible and varied soundtrack. I don't think some of the scenes would have had as much impact without music that actually synced up to some of the cutscenes.
They could have saved money and just gotten he Benny Hill theme. That fits everything.
Well, 3d games aren't any better in the acting department.
Play Tales of Symphonia. Note that in any cutscene when any character talks,they all make the same hand motion, interparsed with awkward pausing just to walk to another spot. It will bug the hell out of you once you notice it.
See, I like this sort of thing, and I also really enjoy what the original poster was complaining about. I like the sprite acting. Am I going to hell?
Also, off-topic, Tales of Symphonia was boring as hell to play, but had such a fun story.
Nah... if everyone liked the same aspect of games, we'd have a boring, homogeneous mess. If there weren't hardcore 2D fans, no one would have made Odin's Sphere.
Heck, Secret of Mana is one of my favorite games, and that did have a few goofy sprite-based scenes, if I recall correctly.
Posts
And then there are the cutscenes from Silent Hill 1. Good game, shitty cutscenes.
For instance (taken from Gamefaqs, right after Harry wakes up in the cafe. Keep in mind he's been in a car wreck, his daughter is missing, and he's been attacked by little knife-wielding nightmare children. Every line is delivered in the flattest, most emotionless voices imaginable.):
Officer: How do you feel?
Harry: Like I've been run over by a truck, but I'm alright, I guess.
Officer: Glad to hear it.
You from around here? Why don't you tell me what happened?
Harry: Wait a second. I'm just a tourist. I came here for a vacation. I
just got here... I don't know what happened. I'd like to find out
myself.
Officer: Uh-huh?
Harry: Have you seen a little girl? Just turned seven last month... Short,
black hair... My daughter.
Cybil: Sorry. The only person I've seen in this town is you.
Harry: Where is everybody?
Officer: I'd tell you if I knew, believe me. But from what I can tell,
something bizarre is going on. That's all I know.
Harry: Hmmm...
Cybil: What's your name?
Harry: Harry... Harry Mason.
Officer: Cybil Bennett. I'm a police officer from Brahms, the next town
over. The phones are all dead, and the radio, too. I'm going back
to call in some reinforcements.
Harry: Hmph.
Harry stands up and walks towards the door. Cybil stands up as well.
Cybil: Hold it! Where do you think you're going?
Harry turns around to face Cybil.
Harry: My daughter... I've gotta find her.
Cybil: No way! It's dangerous out there.
Harry: In that case, I need to find her now! Cheryl's my little girl. I
can't just leave her by herself.
Cybil: Have you got a gun?
Harry: Ummm... no.
Fortunately, I have only fond memories of that game. I just remember the great fight graphics, and the crazy hard battles. But I played through the first chunk of Shining Force 1 again recently, and yes, there was unfortunate sprite theatre going on there. It's sure said on here a lot that everything is lost in translation, but it'd be interesting to ask a fluent Japanese speaker... are the original scripts for those Camelot Software Planning games any good?
That being said, I like sprite cutscenes with their shitty emotes. Adding sparkle and flair like high res portraits is cool and all but having the sprites run around with sweat lines or dropped jaws is classic. Fullscreen cutscenes, either video or sprites, just get in the way and disrupt the flow of the game (obviously there's exceptions). I want to be in-game as much as possible and not be shuttled back and forth between "look at our awesome artwork!" and "you should thank us we didn't just use 8x8 sprites". 3D games change this dynamic around a bit since cutscenes can just take different angles than normal gameplay while using all the same models and environments.
I thought they were quite charming and full of personality.
Satans..... hints.....
Well, that's mostly due to the shitty voice acting and PS1 real-time 3Dness. You could make a case for all of the dialogue sounding slightly unreal and not how a normal person would react by just looking at the theme of the series: nobody's ever really sure if they're awake or dreaming. You say completely insane stuff in your dreams, right? Just last night in a dream I got angry and yelled "YOU'RE THE ONE WHO KISSED ME, IT WASN'T ME!" at a girl who kissed me. It's kind of the same thing for Silent Hill. :P
I don't think I could possibly disagree more with that statement.
*SEEING* is much better than just reading some dialogue and exposition. Showing is always better than telling. The music and imagery of that scene worked better in 1997 than it would've in 1992. And it'd be even more powerful today, I'd wager (if only because the characters would look more human and be easier to relate to)
Besides, at least with FF titles, from FFIV on, there were plenty of cutscenes showing nothing but action.
Um, I know it's an old game and all, but seriously, could you have, you know, labeled which game that was a spoiler to? I'm kind of playing through it now, and, well, thanks.
Um... it is labeled.
I am a freaking nerd.
Anyway, some of my favorite cutscenes are from FFVI, and they're all sprite based, especially the
I never knew Lunar's were; I assumed they were animated. I'd still never seen anything like it at the time.
I guess I'd disagree - I'm amazed at how expressive a game like FFVI is with its characters with such a limited repertoire of sprites and expressions. I'm also convinced that a lot of modern games really don't use writing to build character nearly as much as they should, and use the graphics as a crutch.
Of course, we tend to remember the good games of the 16 bit era, and neglect the bad. I'm sure there were plenty of sprite based ones that were awful, too...
You just keep on trying 'til you run out of cake
Shiren FC: 3093-6912-1542
Play Tales of Symphonia. Note that in any cutscene when any character talks,they all make the same hand motion, interparsed with awkward pausing just to walk to another spot. It will bug the hell out of you once you notice it.
See, I like this sort of thing, and I also really enjoy what the original poster was complaining about. I like the sprite acting. Am I going to hell?
Also, off-topic, Tales of Symphonia was boring as hell to play, but had such a fun story.
???
DOES NOT COMPUTE
I enjoyed both.
I bought a GC for that game, in fact.
(Mostly because I'm a sucker for Kousuke Fujishima.)
I hated how strategy-free the battle system was, I coasted through the whole game hacking, slashing, healing, never once really feeling like I was being challenged by the battles. If nothing else, the battles where easy (I also played the whole game on the hard setting because of how easy I found it).
Which is why you try to be as stylish and thorough as possible. Create one long-ass combo then finish it with a U-Attack and Prism Star or that other one with Lloyd and Colette that hits 50 times or so.
But the story was shiiiiiiiiit.
As has been said earlier in the thread, FF6 has the advantage of having an incredible and varied soundtrack. I don't think some of the scenes would have had as much impact without music that actually synced up to some of the cutscenes.
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
They could have saved money and just gotten he Benny Hill theme. That fits everything.
Nah... if everyone liked the same aspect of games, we'd have a boring, homogeneous mess. If there weren't hardcore 2D fans, no one would have made Odin's Sphere.
Heck, Secret of Mana is one of my favorite games, and that did have a few goofy sprite-based scenes, if I recall correctly.