Far too much bitching going on about this game, and not enough Travis Touchdown quotes.
I know a lot of gamers out there who don't have much patience. 'least that's what Bishop the dude at the video store said. So I'm at the register and then I realize: I got no money! I was seriously broke! Why? 'cause I met this smoking hot chick last night at the deathmatch bar and MAN did she smell GOOD! So, being the gentleman I am, I bought her a drink. Anyhoo, I decided to get a job. The gig: assassinate 'The Drifter'! So I went where I was supposed to and waited for the guy to show up. And there he was: this cat, well-dressed, cool. Couldn't tell if he was the shit, or just plain old shit. Yeah, so he's stylin', fast, aggressive, and packin' heat. Bada-bing. Or at least it was supposed to be. 'Til she showed up. Her name: Sylvia Christel, an agent with this whatchyamacallit association. "Congratulations; you are certified as the 11th best hitman. How about getting rid of the 10 killers above you, and aim for the top?" I wanna be number one. How's that? Short and simple enough for ya? It's gonna be a long, hard road. But who knows? Could kick ass. Could be dangerous. Could totally suck. Whadaya say, bro? Join me. Let's see how far we can take this. And for you there, holding the Wii Remote right now, just press the A button. Let the bloodshed begin!
I agree with you Apo. The overworld and everything dealing with it is just bad, but it's worth it just to "hear th boss name", gt the phone call, and then fight them. The game has so much cool style, but the overworld is lame and it being "bad" on purpose is bullshit. No one makes a part of their game design bad on purpose. They'll ignore one part in favor of another, but never make it bad as a goal.
I agree with you Apo. The overworld and everything dealing with it is just bad, but it's worth it just to "hear th boss name", gt the phone call, and then fight them. The game has so much cool style, but the overworld is lame and it being "bad" on purpose is bullshit. No one makes a part of their game design bad on purpose. They'll ignore one part in favor of another, but never make it bad as a goal.
no where in there does it say we made this GAMEPLAY BAD on purpose. Making something pop out visually more than something else has nothing to do with how bad it operates. The city aspect of the game sucks, deal with it. It was not done on purpose, now making something visually bland vs. making something eye popping is done often in game usually for indirect control which this game does pretty good, but that has nothing to do with BAD and TEDIOUS gameplay. The world just has bad elements to make the game longer. Take out the stupid chores and this game is 4-5 hours long, maybe not even that.
There's a difference between 'making the city aspects more monotonous for thematic reasons' and 'olol let's make part of our game fucking suck'. I really think the city elements work fine and are done intentionally and people would pick up on that...if the controls and physics for the bike weren't utter and total shit. There's enough good in the overworld between the humor, the powerups, and the assasination action to keep it entertaining while STILL having that tone to it. In that regard I agree with the 'it was intentionally designed' crowd.
Then they obscured the whole thing by having the only means of tranport suck balls. In that regard I agree with the 'they fucked up, deal' train of thought.
I kind of dug the intentionally flawed aspects of the game but yeah, a few little things like wiping out on the bike all the goddamned time and having to fuck around if you parked too close to an entrance were kind of a drag.
No one expects an ending like this. This ending is referring to the sad fact of "Twilight Princess Syndrome" claiming yet another game. A game with such hope, promise; a long life with so much more to see. With Twilight Princess, the game slowly broke down with each item becoming useless outside it's dungeon. No More Heroes battle system becomes a shallow form of dodging as your only means of delivering the hurt against bosses. You're fighting the final boss and you realize that this is pretty much every other boss fight I've fought. All I'm doing is dodging->mash the A button->wrestling move.
The game's combat system works just dandy for fighting multiple enemies. The problem is that it never takes advantage of it. The developers thought throwing in multiple free fight missions where you lose by taking one hit should take up a sizable chunk of selectable missions. The game also fools you into thinking you'll open up a lot of buildings to walk into (as in the world slowly opening up to you). It doesn't, despite the Shenmue vibe (the cat, the sound that emits from lokilov balls, etc.). The game's serious Animal Crossing presence worked out great though.
The cut scenes are very entertaining. The bad guys aren't really focused on like in killer7. Basically it's a "hi and bye" relationship, bye being death by beam cutterer!! Masafumi Takada didn't seem to really push himself with the music. Every song seems to be a variation of the game's trailer music or that one pop song. A real shame because one of the best songs was an original tune to the boss battle with Dr. Peace. The sound effects are good. The goons actually have humorous insults to say to you. Controls work well for the most part. The wii waggle is used sparingly.
So after beating the game I am rewarded with a higher difficulty and new t-shirts... The problem is that I want to mess around with new weapons and fight more missions. At the end of the day this is still an action game.
Judgment: Worth Playing
edit: Wrote the review right after beating the game. I found out later that the useless cards reveal artwork on and little tidbits of information on the game on your 2nd playthrough. I was heavily disappointed because I enjoyed the game so much and I wanted replay value. It's very frustrating to think how much better this good game could be. This review is pretty harsh because of that.
edit 2:
I discovered some things that eliminate some of my No More Heroes complaints. Don't let my harsh criticism discourage you. This game is worth owning.
1. When the "slow-mo arrow" appears, just before enemy and sword connect, shake the wiimote in that direction to do a suped up attack. This attack kills (with Tsubaki-II) all the normal baddies on bitter in one hit instead of knocking them down. Your sword emits more electricity and you will see small blue arrows.
2. You can counter attack by blocking and pressing the "A" button at the same time your enemy hits you. This makes boss fights a lot less mundane (you don't have to dodge all the time anymore). This works great against Bad Girl. If you pull it off right, the attack will look like a full charged low attack. The other one results in you clashing weapons together.
The first thing I discovered is quite cool actually. I probably look like a "real wii-wagglin" gamer doing it. It actually does feel pretty satisfying. It's funny how Grasshopper has gotten combat right and how Nintendo horribly failed to do so with Twilight Princess on Wii.
edit 3: Final boss fight is unfortunately dull even after figuring out those new tricks on my second playthrough. It's nice that there are still games out there that let you discover things on your own, but this game severely lacks replay value. A "pikmin2 improvement" is needed.
You guys need to learn how to park the bike. You tilt the wii remote in the direction you want to drift and brake right in front of the entrance. It is incredibly badass. If you don't do that, your relationship with the bike will suck.
I should add that I found the bike controls absolutely fine once I learnt that holding b let me make sharp turns at higher speeds.
Granted, the fact it occasionally gets stuck on things is annoying, but that's the only real fault I've found in the game so far.
Some people are letting it get to them a little too much.
The only thing which annoyed me about the bike was the 90 degree slide turn didn't always go the way I wanted it to. With that last bit you mentioned, Vert, I presume that has to do with tilt instead of pointing the joystick. Arg.
Taking out the chores would be a bit extreme. Mitigating the endless commutes around the city, either with a smaller area, better controls, or the ability to take jobs from remote - that would work well to improve things.
Taking out the chores would be a bit extreme. Mitigating the endless commutes around the city, either with a smaller area, better controls, or the ability to take jobs from remote - that would work well to improve things.
Taking out the chores would be a bit extreme. Mitigating the endless commutes around the city, either with a smaller area, better controls, or the ability to take jobs from remote - that would work well to improve things.
This is a fair point.
There was a need for balancing in there too. I basically do one job between each mission over and over, whatever earns me money fastest. The combat is awesome but not nuanced enough to encourage the player to make their own diversity in choices.
The job minigames are all lame but I GET that as a design choice, its work.
Earning money is a fucking chore that gets in the way of fun.
Again, deliberate. If the game did otherwise I'd be disappointed in it.
If getting in the way of fun is how you are making your game I would suggest you are doing it wrong.
That depends if you're trying to achieve anything more than just "fun" with your game.
What, the tedium is a statement?
Yep.
Ever noticed how Travis has no problem running around in missions but appears to be somewhat out of shape and wheezing whenever he does it in the regular world?
The game's a satire on how a player of video games percieves things, Travis being one himself. When he plays a game/assasinates someone, he's strong, fast and impressive. In the real world, he's out of shape and has trouble carrying coconuts around.
I linked an article a few posts back.
I thought of it as him pretending that the coconuts were heavy, at first. Then I tried running around a building rather than taking the bike, oh, that was a mistake.
Travis is an interesting fellow, the game simply oozes style out of every bruised, beaten reference it makes.
Taking out the chores would be a bit extreme. Mitigating the endless commutes around the city, either with a smaller area, better controls, or the ability to take jobs from remote - that would work well to improve things.
This is a fair point.
There was a need for balancing in there too. I basically do one job between each mission over and over, whatever earns me money fastest. The combat is awesome but not nuanced enough to encourage the player to make their own diversity in choices.
The job minigames are all lame but I GET that as a design choice, its work.
In terms of shrinking the place, they could have cut out everything above the river and no one would have been the wiser. All that's up there are Lovikov balls, dumpsters, dig sites, and those "you lose if you get hit once" missions. Replace some of the plain buildings in the south with the interesting ones up there, and there ya go - city half the size, with some of the plain junk from the southern part replaced. You'd still commute, but it'd all be concentrated.
Earning money is a fucking chore that gets in the way of fun.
Again, deliberate. If the game did otherwise I'd be disappointed in it.
If getting in the way of fun is how you are making your game I would suggest you are doing it wrong.
That depends if you're trying to achieve anything more than just "fun" with your game.
What, the tedium is a statement?
Yep.
Ever noticed how Travis has no problem running around in missions but appears to be somewhat out of shape and wheezing whenever he does it in the regular world?
The game's a satire on how a player of video games percieves things, Travis being one himself. When he plays a game/assasinates someone, he's strong, fast and impressive. In the real world, he's out of shape and has trouble carrying coconuts around.
I linked an article a few posts back.
Of course, this whole argument assumes that the original premise (earning money isn't fun) is true. Personally, I reject that premise, as I had lots of fun doing the assasination and mini-game missions.
Things can be deliberately bad. You can create disharmonies and juxtapositions to alarm the player, to shock them, to set them off balance.
The driving on this stupid fucking bike is nothing but stupidity and laziness. I mean if you want to accept the overworld as a post-modern criticism of overworlds, well, I think then you'd be doing more work than the developers did.
I've not read all those links. I'll try to find some time to do so. Obviously given the metacritic and gamerankings averages I'm not in the majority here.
here's some tips to actually make bike driving fun
first of all, learn how to drift.
this makes it incredibly easy to do your sharp turns and it refills all your boost.
to do it you tilt the remote to the left and press b to drift left and right and press b to drift right
this can only be done when you're going a decent speed or boosting
even if you don't have to turn, doing a drift in a circle (hold b) is still worth it for refilling all your boost.
also flicking the wii remote up to jump is good on straightaways because it doesn't use any boost and you jump over traffic.
from what i've read i don't think you know how to call your bike. you do so by pressing 1.
last but not least holding b to reverse and then immediately accelerating after puts you at top speed.
this makes bike driving a nice experience and gets you to where you need to go fast.
Somehow, running down pedestrians was entertaining enough to keep me occupied as I went from place to place. Not to mention the Lovikov Ball hunt, once I got that started. Also, I almost never had a significant problem with navigation once I learned to brake before a turn (I'm not talking about slide-turns, either, I'm talking about, y'know, slowing down a bit). It's not something I'd make an entire game out of, but the overworld didn't bother me at all.
Kupi on
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
i had a chance to play this for a few hours (hours because of the hype) and came to the conclusion that wii owners had been starved of AAA titles...hopefully mario kart wii and & brawl (when it finally gets released here) will put a bender on that
i had a chance to play this for a few hours (hours because of the hype) and came to the conclusion that wii owners had been starved of AAA titles...hopefully mario kart wii and & brawl (when it finally gets released here) will put a bender on that
Yeah. The ONLY reason the game was fun to us, is because every single other game is terrible. Who the fuck are you again?
I didn't find anything about the game boring. Some stuff wasn't as fun as others, and certainly I skipped all of the randomly-placed and completely option 'one hit death' missions, but overall I found most of the jobs and assn missions fun, the in between bits 'okay,' and the boss battles very fun. But more importantly, I found the style and story to be the most intriguing and interesting thing driving me through the game. I thoroughly enjoyed the experience.
I felt like it has the best assets of Killer7 with better gameplay. I hated Killer7's gameplay but the story, style, and music pulled me through. This game has great style, story, and music; but it's gameplay varies between 'meh' and 'awesome.' So it's a huge step up from K7 in my book.
Best game 2008? Heck no. But this is probably on par with Heavenly Sword in my book.
I think it's the best game of the year so far. That very well may change when GTAIV comes out next month though.
Anyway, new interview with Suda 51 popped up today.
For those of you saying that they didn't make any parts of the game bad on purpose...
Travis has to work hard at lots of grotty jobs. Is that inspired by real life? Have you ever had a terrible part time job?
(A booming, almost disconcerting laugh from Suda and his translator) I've done over thirty jobs in my lifetime. Some were better than others, let's leave it at that.
But there is a link between my and my team's life experiences and the games we make. We want to include the message in our games that "some jobs aren't important, and you may hate them, but if you do them to the best of your ability, it'll turn out well. Better times will come."
This game needs an RE4 Mercernaries mode. Or is that every game?
I wish there was some way to choose missions/rank battles/boss fights, regardless of where you are in the storyline, on New Game +. I think it could have worked. It could be an option in the bedroom. Travis daydreams or something. Oh well.
I think it's the best game of the year so far. That very well may change when GTAIV comes out next month though.
Anyway, new interview with Suda 51 popped up today.
For those of you saying that they didn't make any parts of the game bad on purpose...
Travis has to work hard at lots of grotty jobs. Is that inspired by real life? Have you ever had a terrible part time job?
(A booming, almost disconcerting laugh from Suda and his translator) I've done over thirty jobs in my lifetime. Some were better than others, let's leave it at that.
But there is a link between my and my team's life experiences and the games we make. We want to include the message in our games that "some jobs aren't important, and you may hate them, but if you do them to the best of your ability, it'll turn out well. Better times will come."
Don't worry, trolls are very good at denying reality whenever it contradicts their opinions.
Really, I had a great deal of fun with this game before I even started thinking too deeply about the metagame. I realized that its ridiculousness was on purpose, but I'm too stupid to think about a game's commentary on game design as a whole while there are people to be cut in half. Understanding the metagame more, though, has made it a treasured part of my collection. I'm not saying it's the best game evar, of course, but it's certainly a game that I'm glad I bought while I could.
And the game is now mine.
Lack of blood really doesn't hurt it much, if you ask me.
Yeah, I really don't mind it in combat. But the scenes after a boss battle? They're terrible without blood. For example Holly Summers:
After the fight, she puts a granade in her mouth and it explodes. In the PAL version, what do I get? A fucking head that's covered in dirt. If a granade explodes in someone's mouth, I deserve to see some blood.
Man, I really gotta agree with the whole "fuck riding around on your big dumb bike" thing.
Honestly, boring shit like that really dragged the game down for me. In fact, the only parts of the game I truly enjoyed (all bullshit "metagame" arguments aside) were the cutscenes and boss battles. All the shit leading up to, and in between... yeah, I could live without. Well, also the kitty was pretty cool.
Not saying it was a bad game, but I can't see paying more than $30 for it either. This game would be perfect if it was only boss battles and cutscenes, with maybe two or three of those "murder 100 people in five minutes or less" missions tossed in.
Seriously the best parts of the bike they don't even show you how to do. If you're just using A and B to go from point to point you're making the bike a bad time. Turbo boosting and power turns are too kickass.
Really, I had a great deal of fun with this game before I even started thinking too deeply about the metagame. I realized that its ridiculousness was on purpose, but I'm too stupid to think about a game's commentary on game design as a whole while there are people to be cut in half.
*sigh*
See, thats a problem for me. If you're not thinking about the metagame and you don't think this game is fraught with bits of just plain bad gameplay, I really have to wonder what the hell is between your ears. This isn't because I'm a troll, this is because I threw a dose of analytical thinking and critical analysis at the game and it comes back all fucked up and confused because Grasshopper is seriously fucking with the player.
But people like you are saying "I don't feel fucked with", which makes me think, "Wow. You'll accept anything, won't you, as long as it has fan service."
I think everyone who is a gamer needs to play this game. I'm not kidding when I say I think it redefines the narrative of video game design. This game is inconceivably mind blowing. But that doesn't excuse the bad shit or make it better, this game is so sublime the bad shit needs to be bad. It is deliberate. I accept that totally.
I don't accept not calling a spade a spade though. So, does that make me a troll?
And the game is now mine.
Lack of blood really doesn't hurt it much, if you ask me.
Yeah, I really don't mind it in combat. But the scenes after a boss battle? They're terrible without blood. For example Holly Summers:
After the fight, she puts a granade in her mouth and it explodes. In the PAL version, what do I get? A fucking head that's covered in dirt. If a granade explodes in someone's mouth, I deserve to see some blood.
Note, I think Pal gamers need to pass or to import. Blood is the punctuation on the keyboard that is this games language. Unacceptable.
Posts
Wrong.
See http://www.destructoid.com/what-no-more-heroes-really-means-73998.phtml
no where in there does it say we made this GAMEPLAY BAD on purpose. Making something pop out visually more than something else has nothing to do with how bad it operates. The city aspect of the game sucks, deal with it. It was not done on purpose, now making something visually bland vs. making something eye popping is done often in game usually for indirect control which this game does pretty good, but that has nothing to do with BAD and TEDIOUS gameplay. The world just has bad elements to make the game longer. Take out the stupid chores and this game is 4-5 hours long, maybe not even that.
Then they obscured the whole thing by having the only means of tranport suck balls. In that regard I agree with the 'they fucked up, deal' train of thought.
You guys need to learn how to park the bike. You tilt the wii remote in the direction you want to drift and brake right in front of the entrance. It is incredibly badass. If you don't do that, your relationship with the bike will suck.
Granted, the fact it occasionally gets stuck on things is annoying, but that's the only real fault I've found in the game so far.
Some people are letting it get to them a little too much.
If getting in the way of fun is how you are making your game I would suggest you are doing it wrong.
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猿も木から落ちる
What, the tedium is a statement?
猿も木から落ちる
This is a fair point.
There was a need for balancing in there too. I basically do one job between each mission over and over, whatever earns me money fastest. The combat is awesome but not nuanced enough to encourage the player to make their own diversity in choices.
The job minigames are all lame but I GET that as a design choice, its work.
猿も木から落ちる
Yep.
Ever noticed how Travis has no problem running around in missions but appears to be somewhat out of shape and wheezing whenever he does it in the regular world?
The game's a satire on how a player of video games percieves things, Travis being one himself. When he plays a game/assasinates someone, he's strong, fast and impressive. In the real world, he's out of shape and has trouble carrying coconuts around.
I linked an article a few posts back.
Travis is an interesting fellow, the game simply oozes style out of every bruised, beaten reference it makes.
In terms of shrinking the place, they could have cut out everything above the river and no one would have been the wiser. All that's up there are Lovikov balls, dumpsters, dig sites, and those "you lose if you get hit once" missions. Replace some of the plain buildings in the south with the interesting ones up there, and there ya go - city half the size, with some of the plain junk from the southern part replaced. You'd still commute, but it'd all be concentrated.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
here's some tips to actually make bike driving fun
first of all, learn how to drift.
this makes it incredibly easy to do your sharp turns and it refills all your boost.
to do it you tilt the remote to the left and press b to drift left and right and press b to drift right
this can only be done when you're going a decent speed or boosting
even if you don't have to turn, doing a drift in a circle (hold b) is still worth it for refilling all your boost.
also flicking the wii remote up to jump is good on straightaways because it doesn't use any boost and you jump over traffic.
from what i've read i don't think you know how to call your bike. you do so by pressing 1.
last but not least holding b to reverse and then immediately accelerating after puts you at top speed.
this makes bike driving a nice experience and gets you to where you need to go fast.
i personally enjoy driving it, but it just makes me clamor for Akira/Burnout style bike missions.
Yeah. The ONLY reason the game was fun to us, is because every single other game is terrible. Who the fuck are you again?
I felt like it has the best assets of Killer7 with better gameplay. I hated Killer7's gameplay but the story, style, and music pulled me through. This game has great style, story, and music; but it's gameplay varies between 'meh' and 'awesome.' So it's a huge step up from K7 in my book.
Best game 2008? Heck no. But this is probably on par with Heavenly Sword in my book.
Also, Mangaroo is an idiot.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Anyway, new interview with Suda 51 popped up today.
For those of you saying that they didn't make any parts of the game bad on purpose...
This game redefines the narrative of video games. Do not miss this game. Absolutely a favorite.
And for those who think I'm doing an about face, I still think most everything else I said earlier is true.
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I went through the same thing. It was entertaining in the beginning, dragged in the middle, and then the end redeemed everything. So funny.
Don't worry, trolls are very good at denying reality whenever it contradicts their opinions.
Really, I had a great deal of fun with this game before I even started thinking too deeply about the metagame. I realized that its ridiculousness was on purpose, but I'm too stupid to think about a game's commentary on game design as a whole while there are people to be cut in half. Understanding the metagame more, though, has made it a treasured part of my collection. I'm not saying it's the best game evar, of course, but it's certainly a game that I'm glad I bought while I could.
Yeah, I really don't mind it in combat. But the scenes after a boss battle? They're terrible without blood. For example Holly Summers:
Honestly, boring shit like that really dragged the game down for me. In fact, the only parts of the game I truly enjoyed (all bullshit "metagame" arguments aside) were the cutscenes and boss battles. All the shit leading up to, and in between... yeah, I could live without. Well, also the kitty was pretty cool.
Not saying it was a bad game, but I can't see paying more than $30 for it either. This game would be perfect if it was only boss battles and cutscenes, with maybe two or three of those "murder 100 people in five minutes or less" missions tossed in.
Seriously the best parts of the bike they don't even show you how to do. If you're just using A and B to go from point to point you're making the bike a bad time. Turbo boosting and power turns are too kickass.
*sigh*
See, thats a problem for me. If you're not thinking about the metagame and you don't think this game is fraught with bits of just plain bad gameplay, I really have to wonder what the hell is between your ears. This isn't because I'm a troll, this is because I threw a dose of analytical thinking and critical analysis at the game and it comes back all fucked up and confused because Grasshopper is seriously fucking with the player.
But people like you are saying "I don't feel fucked with", which makes me think, "Wow. You'll accept anything, won't you, as long as it has fan service."
I think everyone who is a gamer needs to play this game. I'm not kidding when I say I think it redefines the narrative of video game design. This game is inconceivably mind blowing. But that doesn't excuse the bad shit or make it better, this game is so sublime the bad shit needs to be bad. It is deliberate. I accept that totally.
I don't accept not calling a spade a spade though. So, does that make me a troll?
猿も木から落ちる
Note, I think Pal gamers need to pass or to import. Blood is the punctuation on the keyboard that is this games language. Unacceptable.
猿も木から落ちる